The Washington Nationals Thread: The Future is Near!

[@DCGoldPants]

Now I want to outbid Philly so they can't get either of those guys.

 

 

[spjunkies]

We can't let those bamas in Philadelphia steal our superstar. Ownership MUST match the offer if it's from them.

[@DCGoldPants]

 

 

Wow

[Spaceman Spiff]

Manny's better, but not as marketable.  I think Harper gets more.

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

6 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

We can't let those bamas in Philadelphia steal our superstar. Ownership MUST match the offer if it's from them.

I'm with you.

 

Harper or bust.

35 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Washington Post's Nats beat reporter Jesse Dougherty writes that the Nats and Davey Martinez are thinking about batting Victor Robles 9th as a "second leadoff hitter." 

 

They did that (position player 9th/pitcher 8th) some last year, most often with Wilmer Difo when he filled in at 3rd base Anthony Rendon was injured.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/02/19/nationals-are-toying-with-idea-batting-victor-robles-ninth-second-lead-off-hitter/?utm_term=.28d3fa97a115

 

 

I like it.

 

Ridiculous speed at the bottom of the lineup.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 minutes ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I'm with you.

 

Harper or bust.

I like it.

 

Ridiculous speed at the bottom of the lineup.

 

Ridiculous speed at the bottom of the lineup is nice, but a lineup is structured so your better hitters get more at bats, not less.  I'd imagine that they do that to get his feet wet to a certain extent but if he's got a high OBP later on in the summer they're limiting themselves if they're limiting the amount of at bats he gets.   It's nice if he can turn the lineup over but that'll be tricky, especially if they bat the pitcher 8th ahead of him.

 

It's why they'd put Willie Mays in the leadoff slot in all-star games.  Wanted to get him up as much as possible.  

[PleaseBlitz]

I'm off the Harper or Bust train (today).  I'm fine with our OFers and I'd rather have the payroll flexibility to sign Rendon, Turner and fill gaps as they arise during the next few years with quality players. 

 

Ask me again tomorrow. 

[@DCGoldPants]

LOL.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

 

4 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Ask me again tomorrow. 

 

Or if he signs with Philly.

 

[TheGoodBits]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

The Post article posits a different lineup:

 

Eaton

Turner

Soto

Rendon

Zimmerman

Dozier

Catcher

Pitcher

Robles

 

That one probably works better because you don’t have to move guys around when Zimmerman gets a day off/gets hurt and Adams is starting. 

49 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Ridiculous speed at the bottom of the lineup is nice, but a lineup is structured so your better hitters get more at bats, not less.  I'd imagine that they do that to get his feet wet to a certain extent but if he's got a high OBP later on in the summer they're limiting themselves if they're limiting the amount of at bats he gets.   It's nice if he can turn the lineup over but that'll be tricky, especially if they bat the pitcher 8th ahead of him.

 

It's why they'd put Willie Mays in the leadoff slot in all-star games.  Wanted to get him up as much as possible.  

 

A counterpoint here would be that the only time he’s losing ABs would be late in the game and he wouldn’t be losing them to the pitcher, he’d be losing them to Kendrick or Adams pinch hitting. And right now, both of those guys are probably better options in a late inning situation. I reserve the right to change that opinion if Robles rakes this year.  

[Riggo#44]

54 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Ridiculous speed at the bottom of the lineup is nice, but a lineup is structured so your better hitters get more at bats, not less.

 

Lineup optimization is nice in theory, but doesn't really make that much difference. Over the course of a season, it's about 40 PAs or so. BA had an article on his low exit velocities, so I am concerned there is a JP Crawford in him. We'll see...

[bearrock]

1 hour ago, PleaseBlitz said:

I'm off the Harper or Bust train (today).  I'm fine with our OFers and I'd rather have the payroll flexibility to sign Rendon, Turner and fill gaps as they arise during the next few years with quality players. 

 

Ask me again tomorrow. 

Wait.  OMG!  You have inside info that Harper is gone don't you!  You are just trying to ease us into the news!!!!!

 

Has anyone ever seen PleaseBlitz and Mike Rizzo in the same place?  #PlotThickens

 

All my hope lies in the hands of Uncle Ted.  Overrule the son and GM and say here, take my pocket change and sign the young man.

 

TBF, I think most WS champions since 2009 Yankees relied on bats on bargain years (pre FA or cheaper late vet contracts).

[thebluefood]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Manny's better, but not as marketable.  I think Harper gets more.

I dunno - Machado's got a higher career WAR and had a much better slash line than Bryce (he was batting around .200 for big chunks of the season). It would be hard for me to justify signing Harper to a record breaking contract based on that. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 minute ago, thebluefood said:

I dunno - Machado's got a higher career WAR and had a much better slash line than Bryce (he was batting around .200 for big chunks of the season). It would be hard for me to justify signing Harper to a record breaking contract based on that. 

 

Yep, Machado does have a higher career WAR...and SS/3B > Outfielder.

 

But Harper has one "Daaaaaaamn, he did THAT!" season, and as good as Manny is, Manny hasn't done that.  IMO, if Harper gets more than Manny just did, it's cause a team is gambling on him for 3 or 4 more of those types of seasons.   That's why these two are so valuable, it's rare to see guys this young hit the FA market BEFORE hitting their primes.  

 

Ultimately, I agree with you, Machado has had a more valuable career thus far.  I think that Harper shoe has to drop by Friday at this point.  

 

[@DCGoldPants]

 

I believe this is what you'd call "having it both ways"

 

Makes me think that $310M number last week was total bull****. 

[bearrock]

1 minute ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

Yep, Machado does have a higher career WAR...and SS/3B > Outfielder.

 

But Harper has one "Daaaaaaamn, he did THAT!" season, and as good as Manny is, Manny hasn't done that.  IMO, if Harper gets more than Manny just did, it's cause a team is gambling on him for 3 or 4 more of those types of seasons.   That's why these two are so valuable, it's rare to see guys this young hit the FA market BEFORE hitting their primes.  

 

Ultimately, I agree with you, Machado has had a more valuable career thus far.  I think that Harper shoe has to drop by Friday at this point.  

 

 

Yeah, I think active players with all time seasons in WAR (top 50 or top 100, I forget) is Trout, Betts, and Harper.  That's the list.  Harper proved that he could do it once (and almost did it again till the wet base game).  Trout and Betts are repeaters on the list.  I tend to think Harper has the higher ceiling than Manny, but then again I'm biased obviously.  

2 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

I believe this is what you'd call "having it both ways"

 

Makes me think that $310M number last week was total bull****. 

 

Woah.  Didn't Rosenthal report that Philly front office preferred Machado to Harper?  Certainly puts that 310 rumor in question.

[@DCGoldPants]

Not my money. But if Boras is looking to beat that deal. ****, I'd offer $350 on an 11 year deal with an opt-out after 6. Then Boras can say he won free agency. It's not that big of a difference and either he'll opt out after 6, or deals will have been so flatlined that he'll keep it but you'll probably see team salaries much higher on average. 

[Warhead36]

It'd suck to see Harper in Philly, but other then 2015 what's he REALLY done? And even then, remember we missed the playoffs that year.

 

I'm not even sure I'm okay with giving him 10 years and $300 Mil, but if even that isn't enough then siyonara. I can't imagine how bad the boo birds will get in Philly when he has one of this all too often 0-5 3 K followed by childish tirade in the dugout.

[StillUnknown]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It'd suck to see Harper in Philly, but other then 2015 what's he REALLY done? And even then, remember we missed the playoffs that year.

 

Bryce seemingly has no "middle zone". His highs are higher than just about anyone not named Trout, but he also goes through ugly stretches where it looks like he has no idea what he's doing with the bat. Last year was perfect example, started white hot for almost a month, then slumped bad til the all-star break. Post all-star break he was back to being the kind of hitter he was touted as being.

 

for those kind of dollars, I would want something a little more concrete. I'm good either way though, if he leaves, even to the Phillies, it doesn't break us or make them

[Riggo#44]

15 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

It'd suck to see Harper in Philly, but other then 2015 what's he REALLY done? And even then, remember we missed the playoffs that year.

 

I'm not even sure I'm okay with giving him 10 years and $300 Mil, but if even that isn't enough then siyonara. I can't imagine how bad the boo birds will get in Philly when he has one of this all too often 0-5 3 K followed by childish tirade in the dugout.

 

As much as I love Harper, and would still welcome him back, it made more sense to spend that on Corbin, Rosenthal, Barraclough, Gomes, Suzuki, Sanchez, Hellicksoj, Dozier, and hopefully Rendon

 

And their pitching still sucks. 

 

Edited February 19, 2019 by Riggo#44

[PleaseBlitz]

If he signs with Philly, I hope Davey remembers what he did with Maddon in Chicago:  walk him until his psyche breaks. 

[Mr. Sinister]

13 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

If he signs with Philly, I hope Davey remembers what he did with Maddon in Chicago:  walk him until his psyche breaks. 

 

I truly wonder if he  (Bryce) was among those  who Cubs brass had in mind when they **** all over basically the Nats lack of manhood.

Edited February 20, 2019 by Mr. Sinister

[Springfield]

So, not someone who follows the team

super closely but is a fan... isn’t the general consensus that Dave Martinez isn’t a good manager?  If so, why is he still here and why are we worrying about signing Bryce or not?

[Bacon]

Bryce's career WAR speaks for itself; he's certainly a far above average outfielder and better than any other option on the market. But then you have to make two considerations:

 

1. His productivity often will not match his contract unless his tendencies shift 8+ seasons into his career. 

 

2. He's a weak value relative to output, but the financial benefits of his presence (ticket sales, merch) could theoretically outweigh the expenditure. The Padres and White Sox badly need guys like Machado and Harper not merely to win baseball games but to remain competitive financially. 

[skinfan2k]

13 minutes ago, Springfield said:

So, not someone who follows the team

super closely but is a fan... isn’t the general consensus that Dave Martinez isn’t a good manager?  If so, why is he still here and why are we worrying about signing Bryce or not?

Davey is an unknown but he wasn't a bad manager.  I think he handled it a little too lax last year and then injuires and bad play begin to hamper.