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Trump Border Wall Post-Shutdown Discussion (Wall-Fight)

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Refusing to give trump any money for walls (despite doing so numerous times in the past for other presidents) is not negotiating. Pelosi hasn’t offered trump anything he could reasonably accept. Democrats should ask for more concessions in return for money (less than he wants) for a wall.

 

I doubt trump is going to open the government without any money for the wall. So unless you can get republican senators to flip gl with the stance that democrats don’t need to negotiate.

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9 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Refusing to give trump any money for walls (despite doing so numerous times in the past for other presidents) is not negotiating. Pelosi hasn’t offered trump anything he could reasonably accept. Democrats should ask for more concessions in return for money (less than he wants) for a wall.

 

I doubt trump is going to open the government without any money for the wall. So unless you can get republican senators to flip gl with the stance that democrats don’t need to negotiate.

 

Shutting down the government to bully for campaign promises is going to become a uniquely Republican bull**** strategy for governing if the Dems bother negotiating. The Republicans could give two suits if the government is open or closed. They will use this every year to bully Democrats. 

 

Absolutely zero funding for the wall before government opens unless Trump is providing blanket amnesty for all current undocumented migrants without a criminal record. 

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32 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Refusing to give trump any money for walls (despite doing so numerous times in the past for other presidents) is not negotiating. Pelosi hasn’t offered trump anything he could reasonably accept. Democrats should ask for more concessions in return for money (less than he wants) for a wall.

I’m not sure if that’s right. Hasn’t Trump and the GOP been offered plenty of money for border security including fencing and barriers? Just not Trump’s ****amamie idea of a giant concrete wall that spans our entire southern border.

 

Also, Trump isn’t like other presidents. He’s a piece of **** that is happy to inflame hatred, promote racism, & destroy all democratic norms for his personal gain.

Edited by Sacks 'n' Stuff
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Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Shutting down the government to bully for campaign promises is going to become a uniquely Republican bull**** strategy for governing if the Dems bother negotiating. The Republicans could give two suits if the government is open or closed. They will use this every year to bully Democrats. 

 

 

Isn’t the government typically shut down as a bargaining chip?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States

 

 

Seems like every time it has been shut down it’s because the president wants x and the controlling party doesn’t want x. (or vice versa). I’m not seeing anything particular unique about this case.

 

Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Absolutely zero funding for the wall before government opens unless Trump is providing blanket amnesty for all current undocumented migrants without a criminal record. 

 

 

Seems that is what the dems should be asking for, but they are not.

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I seem to remember that every shutdown was generated by Republicans, Gingrich in the House, etc. They use shutdowns as strongarm tactics to get their way. Dems need to stand firm, both House and Senate. 

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1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

 

Open the government and pay its employees or no negotiations. 

 

 

Yep. Say it over and over.

 

Also, Trump is truly terrible at his job.

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45 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Refusing to give trump any money for walls (despite doing so numerous times in the past for other presidents) is not negotiating. Pelosi hasn’t offered trump anything he could reasonably accept. Democrats should ask for more concessions in return for money (less than he wants) for a wall.

 

I doubt trump is going to open the government without any money for the wall. So unless you can get republican senators to flip gl with the stance that democrats don’t need to negotiate.

He shouldn't BE given anything.

this is not how you handle a bully,, and frankly, someone who's campaign is run on anger and he uses the bull**** that Mexico will pay for it so much that his rabid lunatic base put him in office as a result, then **** him, let him go get his pesos from ****ing Mexico.

 

 

Negotiate with this fat fraud and pathetically weak bully.. it's ****ing  embarrassing Americans would even consider it given how this has gone. We used to have some ****ing balls.

This fat **** wants to threaten us into giving what he FAILED to get from his sworn source as a great dealmaker... what his moronic ****ing cult SCREAMED he could do.

 

**** him, and **** them.

 

 

~Bang

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37 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

Isn’t the government typically shut down as a bargaining chip?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_shutdowns_in_the_United_States

 

 

Seems like every time it has been shut down it’s because the president wants x and the controlling party doesn’t want x. (or vice versa). I’m not seeing anything particular unique about this case.

 

 

 

Seems that is what the dems should be asking for, but they are not.

 

There is supposed to be a system of checks and balances, Congress being one of those checks on the presidency. 

 

If Dems cave and give Trump what he wants now he can hold America hostage for anything he wants in the future. It’s a step toward tyranny. 

 

Not to mention the Dems have the moral high ground here by not wasting tax payer dollars on something that is unpopular with voters, won’t actually help any of the immigration issues and that Trump promised Mexico would pay for. 

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The dems do not have to cave... they really don’t even have to give him a offer that he can accept.

 

But giving him no funding for a wall (despite giving money in the past) is a bad look imo.

 

It plays good in the short term, but democrats have more to lose that trump does.  He’s approval rankings are already in the tank and his supporters want a fight, they don’t even care about winning.

 

I think as time goes on a trump keeps going on the tv making “offers” to the democrats and their response is a flat “no” (as they did tonight) it will grow tiresome for more and more people.

 

The dems should be making their own offers that give him some money for a wall (1-2 billion) in exchange for permanent DACA, and any other stuff they can cram in.

 

Then they can say they are making offers to pay for a wall and trump isn’t negotiating. 

 

 

 

Edited by CousinsCowgirl84

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God this is the easiest political maneuvering ever right now. Pelosi can just continue to offer more and more for border security at the ports of entry and continue to win the PR battle because Trump’s insistance on A WALL is so unpopular. 

 

Trump offering anything today looks weak. He holds a pair of 2s. 

3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

The dems do not have to cave... they really don’t even have to give him a offer that he can accept.

 

But giving him no funding for a wall (despite giving money in the past) is a bad look imo.

 

It plays good in the short term, but democrats have more to lose that trump does.  He’s approval rankings are already in the tank and his supports want a fight, they don’t even care about winning.

 

I think as time goes on a trump keeps going on the tv making “offers” to the democrats and their response is a flat “no” (as they did tonight) it will grow tiresome for more and more people.

 

The dems should be making their own offers that give him some money for a wall (1-2 billion) in exchange for permanent DACA, and any other stuff they can cram in.

 

Then they can say they are making offers to pay for a wall and trump isn’t negotiating. 

 

 

 

 

Entirely wrong. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200. 

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$20 tax on porn is stupid. Makes sense tho to nickle n dime the consumer. Especially considering internet providers like Spectrum pay little to no taxes. Gotta make that tax revenue up somewhere. Mirite?

 

 

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Somebody feel like mentioning to Emperor Coulter that the Great Wall wont stop people who are already here?  

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It’s hilarious seeing MAGA idiots on coulters twitter feed calling her a democrat for her recent tweets criticizing this “compromise.” She doesn’t understand the the art of the deal by the genius 

 

They must have forgotten that if it wasnt for her, Trump would have signed the budget deal without any wall money 

 

Geez these people are dumb. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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2012 Romney would fight (and beat the crap out of) 2019 Romney.  2019 Romney is a damn wuss.

 

Also Lindsay Graham should not be allowed to speak in public unless it's to answer where Len Blavatnik's $800,000.00 donation to Graham's PAC came from.

 

 

I don't think this really moves the needle.  It's a PR stunt, and I think that has been sufficiently discussed to keep the public from swinging too hard.  It's too easy to point out that this deal is basically Trump offering back a small portion of something he himself took away.

 

However, if it were up to me, I'd have had Pelosi do an instant televised reply like the last time Trump did this, and drop the "DREAM ACT + HR1 for 5.7B" counter offer on him.  You know DREAM Act makes it a non-starter for President Miller, but considering DREAM Act and HR1 (or its component parts at least, since direct polling on HR1 hasn't really been done) are both very popular, you basically win that battle from the get-go.

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Yea, and that’s 36 percent of the population. Those people are insanely committed to trump. As long as he has those 36 percent he can get re-elected. He doesn’t need to open the government.

 

I just wonder how the people who are advocating not negotiating with trump see this playing out. 

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If this wall was truly important to Trump then he would have secured funding in the first two years, like he did with his giant tax cuts for the rich.

 

This wall is nothing more than a diversion for Trump.  Democrats won the house by a huge margin so now he’s just clogging up the system with this dumb wall so they can’t do anything.

 

It doesn’t take a genius to see this for what it is.  Give him NOTHING.

Edited by Springfield
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This actually shows the GOP and Trump losing the shutdown battle. McConnell needed to do something, there will be floor action.

BTW, it will be fun to see if the Senate votes on the CR that passed unanimously. Do I really think this will be anything but the "show vote" McConnell decried?

Still a ridiculous show... but it has moved forward a bit.

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2 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

Yea, and that’s 36 percent of the population. Those people are insanely committed to trump. As long as he has those 36 percent he can get re-elected. He doesn’t need to open the government.

 

I just wonder how the people who are advocating not negotiating with trump see this playing out. 

36 percent won't get him re-elected.

 

5 hours ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

I doubt trump is going to open the government without any money for the wall. So unless you can get republican senators to flip gl with the stance that democrats don’t need to negotiate.

Keeping the government closed is unsustainable and incredibly stupid. It's akin to holding his breath. More and more employees are being told to go back to work for no pay. How are these 800,000 people going to take care of their families after missing two paychecks? How much damage is being done to areas around federal facilities and national parks? How far are we dropping back in scientific research? The average American may not care about or be aware of these issues, but Senators are.

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5 hours ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

36 percent won't get him re-elected.

 

If you get 36 percent of the total us population (not of the electorate) to go out and vote for you i think you win most of the time.  Especially since most of the democratic population is in a few states and with the electoral college set up the way it is.. 

 

 

5 hours ago, RedskinsFan44 said:

 

Keeping the government closed is unsustainable and incredibly stupid. It's akin to holding his breath. More and more employees are being told to go back to work for no pay. How are these 800,000 people going to take care of their families after missing two paychecks? How much damage is being done to areas around federal facilities and national parks? How far are we dropping back in scientific research? The average American may not care about or be aware of these issues, but Senators are.

 

I agree that a long shutdown is foolish, but i don’t see trump caring about that.

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I’m amused by the folks that keep relentlessly gaslighting us with the “dems had no problem funding the wall in the past” line.

 

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21 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

I agree that a long shutdown is foolish, but i don’t see trump caring about that.

You're right, he doesn't care about the country over himself. My guess is he is watching the polls and the stock market. So far the market doesn't care, but the polls so far are going against him. I really think this Friday, when gov employees miss a second check, and February 1, when bills are due, are going to be real pressure points. TSA agents, etc. are going to have to choose between keeping their job and a paycheck.

 

Add: I also believe that his 36% (or whatever the actual # is) gambit is likewise unsustainable. He keeps that number happy by being an asshole to everyone else (this morning's, and every other morning's, tweets for example). At this point he has another 36% of the country so pissed off they would walk across glass to vote against him.

Posted as I typed the above:
 

 

Edited by RedskinsFan44

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