Master Blaster Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/18/2018 at 1:43 PM, Kelvin Bryant said: You wrote, "I think Gruden would be best in the NFL as OC." If I had said that, I too would try to pretend it never happened. On reading that again, maybe you meant, "In the NFL, Gruden's best role would be as an OC." If that's the case, I still disagree, but not as violently. It clearly reads as the second one. It has nothing to do with how good of an OC I think he is, it just means he has been promoted above his abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 I think Gruden is best served being a OC on a team where he does not have play calling duties. Let him draw up plays. But let someone else call them, and gameplan for the opposing team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: The team battled for Gruden down the stretch when it had been decimated by injuries last year also. I attributed it Cousins but now Gruden's team continues to battle so I give Gruden credit. At worse they finish 7-9 which I feel is positive for him given how they were doing before the before the crippling injuries. I don't know that I agree. In the game that really counted, the team folded their tents, packed their bags and didn't come to play. They did not fight for Gruden or the team itself two years in a row when winning against the Giants would have meant getting in the playoffs. Instead, the team with nothing to play for came in with fire and we couldn't even muster any smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heathen Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 we just aren't fun to watch, so I think I'm in the camp with "whatever changes need to be made to make us at least entertaining, even if losing". mainly getting a GM, but what the hell, blow it up again. who cares. apathy. we just aren't fun to watch, so I think I'm in the camp with "whatever changes need to be made to make us at least entertaining, even if losing". mainly getting a GM, but what the hell, blow it up again. who cares. apathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirtyfive2seven Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 On 12/17/2018 at 1:48 PM, daveakl said: I think Jay, with the right parts (and healthy parts), can win 10 games consistently in this league. BUT He needs a better GM to find him those parts and he needs better people around him to hold players accountable/motivate if he is not going to be the one doing it. I absolutely agree with this. Jay has found a way to get a team with a pretty good offense and no defense with Cousins to the playoffs. Then the next season get the redskins to possibly 500 with no WR"s, every starter injured and 14 different QBs. He's not that bad. The defense is improving (although I'm not a fan of Minuski). If the Redskins had a competent front office to get them good players from drafts and not blown the Cousins situation they would be a good team. I would say it's completely possible for them to go anywhere from 7-9 to 12-4. That's pretty good. But, if the Redskins fire Bruce Allen - a man can dream - then I'm pretty sure the new GM will purge and bring in his own choices. I'm ok with that as well but Gruden brought the team from bad to decent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 9 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: The team battled for Gruden down the stretch when it had been decimated by injuries last year also. I attributed it Cousins but now Gruden's team continues to battle so I give Gruden credit. At worse they finish 7-9 which I feel is positive for him given how they were doing before the before the crippling injuries. So.... going 1-6, trashing the fans, getting arrested, getting crushed by the Cowboys, Eagles, and Giants, in back to back to back weeks, and going down 34-0 to the Giants in the worst half of Redskins football ever, is battling for Gruden down the stretch? So you win one game in 7 against the worst team in the NFL and thats now battling? Id hate to see what it would look like if they quit on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 20, 2018 Author Share Posted December 20, 2018 Mind you I reserve the right to as the weasles in Congress say “amend my remarks” if Gruden’s guys are gutless during these last two games. At the moment they seem stoic and determined after posting a win on the road against another NFL team, however hapless, but I need to see real effort if not a victory against Tennessee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Bumping this because I want everyone to see it and vote today if they haven't because this is the last day to vote. It's nearly even which is surprising to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillBill26 Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 On 12/20/2018 at 3:58 PM, Thirtyfive2seven said: I absolutely agree with this. Jay has found a way to get a team with a pretty good offense and no defense with Cousins to the playoffs. Then the next season get the redskins to possibly 500 with no WR"s, every starter injured and 14 different QBs. He's not that bad. The defense is improving (although I'm not a fan of Minuski). If the Redskins had a competent front office to get them good players from drafts and not blown the Cousins situation they would be a good team. I would say it's completely possible for them to go anywhere from 7-9 to 12-4. That's pretty good. But, if the Redskins fire Bruce Allen - a man can dream - then I'm pretty sure the new GM will purge and bring in his own choices. I'm ok with that as well but Gruden brought the team from bad to decent. It's interesting that a lot of people on here criticize the Redskins for not being able to acquire impact players, and want bruce Allen fired (which I understand), but then want the Redskins to promote from within in smith and Schaeffer, who have been very involved with acquiring players. (Not necessarily you 35to7, but it seems to be a common sentiment on here) The teams performance in acquiring players has been criticized on here. With Snyder showing that he does react to the fan bases sentiment when things get ugly, how long of a leash would either one of them truly have. If one of them is promoted, and the initial perception is their first draft class is weak, and the team has a losing record, I feel there will be an overwhelming sentiment of "more of the same, we need to clean house, new guy needs to go". My two cents is: fire Allen, Kyle smith as gm and Schaeffer as president, and pay them both handsomely. I feel if either of them were to walk, it would be very similar to the mcvay situation, where we had good young talent in house and let it get away. I think our organization would be in good hands with them. Where my take is different is I think the Redskins have done a better job with recent drafts and free agent decisions than others on here believe. There have been misses no doubt, but we have filled some holes with good young talent. Our issue is depth, and that takes time to build. But we will have a lot of picks in the next two drafts, and can continue to improve the roster. My desire to see Allen let go is due to the poor way he has handled numerous situations in recent years and his less than stellar reputation among players and agents, not due to the Redskins overall approach to player acquisition in recent years. So my question is: if people feel we have done a poor job acquiring talent in recent years, why promote from within involving people who were very instrumental in that process? which brings me to jay. I think he has been given a talented roster, and has shown success, and has also done the best he can with a ragtag group once our guys started getting hurt. I just think we could do better for a head coach. I hope the decision to hire a new coach is squarely on the shoulders of our new gm we will name in January. And that the coach who is chosen is someone with superior game management, play calling, and more businesslike manner to game preparations. I think a better head coach, along with the young talent we have now and will be adding on the next couple drafts, will put the skins in great position for a competitive run. I don't think jay will ever be able to break the ceiling that we have seen in recent years, hovering around .500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 Just bring in a coach who's familiar with most of our players, and most of the players that we'll draft for the next 6 years. Nick.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyvern Posted December 22, 2018 Share Posted December 22, 2018 There things that I don't like about Gruden's coaching style but he needs to be retained for 2019, regardless of what happens (or not) in the front office. I'm hoping that Callahan's role in calling plays is removed even if that means possibly losing him. I think that some of the predictable and unproductive running play calling might be due to Callahan. Also, going forward, the. offensive game-planning and game-time play-calling needs to be handled by a single offensive coordinator, who Gruden has groomed during the off-season to assume those duties in 2019. Naturally since playcalls to the QB still gets channelled through Gruden, he could occasionally override a play-call, but he needs to be more focussed on assessing the flow of the game, or giving general counsel or his preferences on style of play to his OC, rather than being down in the weeds of pondering each single playcall. Gruden has plenty of other things to do, to be acting like an effective Head Coach with final say. In short, Gruden needs to be a head coach, not a player coach, or a hybrid OC/Head Coach. And he should also hire someone to be up in the booth to planning half-time adjustments while the first half is still going on. That way Gruden can be properly evaluated as on how effective he is in leading his coaching staffs' production. Basically, lighten the load of granular/lesser responsibilities from Gruden's plate, so he can better coordinate the plan of attack as a Head Coach and not as another worker bee. ....But most of keep Callahan away from any game-time play-calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted December 22, 2018 Author Share Posted December 22, 2018 Wow, final results even. I didn’t see this coming.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I actually feel better about Jay this game. Team really did fight for him although the D kinda failed at all the wrong moments. Jay's strategy gave us a chance. Oh, and another insanely one-sided Reffing job. That call on Moreau was horrible. I even saw the head official try to talk him out of it. That was the gift that gave the Titans the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Gruden still makes way too many in game mistakes. Maybe he just needs to hire a better OC, I don't know, but I just don't like his overall feel for the game. But I think his overall strategizing/gameplanning during the week is fairly sound and it seems like the guys play hard for him. He definitely sucks at hiring DCs though. Manusky is hot garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
50yrSKINSfan Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 23 minutes ago, Warhead36 said: Gruden still makes way too many in game mistakes. Maybe he just needs to hire a better OC, I don't know, but I just don't like his overall feel for the game. But I think his overall strategizing/gameplanning during the week is fairly sound and it seems like the guys play hard for him. He definitely sucks at hiring DCs though. Manusky is hot garbage. Warhead is tight on. Will someone please clue in Jaybird that the first rule to completing a pass is good pass protection like picking up a blitz. While we are at it Jay, try taking what the D gives you instead of forcing long pass plays against a 9 man secondary, WTF. As far as Manusky I say dump him if you can get Dick LeBeau who is available. Happy holidays all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaytoAli Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 6 hours ago, Wyvern said: In short, Gruden needs to be a head coach, not a player coach, or a hybrid OC/Head Coach. This is definitely not anyone with the last name Gruden. So this is impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I would fire Bruce Allen and let the next architect determine Jays fate. I wouldn’t outright fire him though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Tied? The GM is probably already here, as long as Allen is gone and doesn't pick his replacement, I'm cool, but this mediocre is better then suck argument is making me sick. Tied? The stadium is half empty every week now y'all, mediocre is no longer an option. 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: Gruden still makes way too many in game mistakes. Maybe he just needs to hire a better OC, I don't know, but I just don't like his overall feel for the game. But I think his overall strategizing/gameplanning during the week is fairly sound and it seems like the guys play hard for him. He definitely sucks at hiring DCs though. Manusky is hot garbage. Here's the thing on hiring a better OC, if they are really good enough to hide Jays weaknesses, someone will grab them for HC just like they did McVay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Add **** No to that poll and you'll see a shift in the balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I wonder if Dan would consider bringing in a black coach? I'm not claiming Dan to be racially bias. But there's a OC in KC that is obviously making a difference in the league. He coached Alex to the best season of his career. He's also coaching a first year starter who may end up being the league MVP. Oh and lets not forget, he's got the inside on the type of play makers the Redskins obviously fail to evaluate. Every fan in this forum has to admit this team lacks excitement on offense even when they're healthy. Not only are the skill positions weak, but Gruden is inherently a grind 'em out type of coach. He's always worried about what could be, instead of attacking the defense. Personally I'm sick of it! Get it...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garcon More Wine Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 On 12/17/2018 at 5:58 PM, JSSkinz said: I've seen enough of Jay, he's a very likable guy but not a good leader of men, he's not innovative and quite frankly I don't think he's that smart. this is where i am as well. dude knows offenses and concepts but as far as leading a team and making all the coaching decisions that come with it, i just havent seen it. bruce needs to go first tho, hes the bigger problem. jay would be doing a better job with a better roster for sure tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins8989 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Pending he's fired, Gruden will be the longest tenured coach under Snyder (Five seasons). That's quite sad. Gruden has his faults. But this team doesn't have much talent. Allen & Williams need to be fired first. Bring in Joe Gibbs as president. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 I really want the Redskins to keep Doug Williams and fire Bruce. Let Doug run the football operations and let Brian Lafemina work on this teams image with the NFL officials. I don't much care right now about the fan base. This team needs to start winning football games. If they do that, the fans will come. So let Doug pick the coaching staff and put a good product out there on the field. Brian you get in the ear of the guys in NY so the Redskins aren't victimized by all the phantom penalties that affect the ****ing game. Every little bit helps. Especially when your team is not properly built and poorly coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 9 hours ago, KillBill26 said: It's interesting that a lot of people on here criticize the Redskins for not being able to acquire impact players, and want bruce Allen fired (which I understand), but then want the Redskins to promote from within in smith and Schaeffer, who have been very involved with acquiring players. (Not necessarily you 35to7, but it seems to be a common sentiment on here) The teams performance in acquiring players has been criticized on here. With Snyder showing that he does react to the fan bases sentiment when things get ugly, how long of a leash would either one of them truly have. If one of them is promoted, and the initial perception is their first draft class is weak, and the team has a losing record, I feel there will be an overwhelming sentiment of "more of the same, we need to clean house, new guy needs to go". My two cents is: fire Allen, Kyle smith as gm and Schaeffer as president, and pay them both handsomely. I feel if either of them were to walk, it would be very similar to the mcvay situation, where we had good young talent in house and let it get away. I think our organization would be in good hands with them. Where my take is different is I think the Redskins have done a better job with recent drafts and free agent decisions than others on here believe. There have been misses no doubt, but we have filled some holes with good young talent. Our issue is depth, and that takes time to build. But we will have a lot of picks in the next two drafts, and can continue to improve the roster. My desire to see Allen let go is due to the poor way he has handled numerous situations in recent years and his less than stellar reputation among players and agents, not due to the Redskins overall approach to player acquisition in recent years. So my question is: if people feel we have done a poor job acquiring talent in recent years, why promote from within involving people who were very instrumental in that process? which brings me to jay. I think he has been given a talented roster, and has shown success, and has also done the best he can with a ragtag group once our guys started getting hurt. I just think we could do better for a head coach. I hope the decision to hire a new coach is squarely on the shoulders of our new gm we will name in January. And that the coach who is chosen is someone with superior game management, play calling, and more businesslike manner to game preparations. I think a better head coach, along with the young talent we have now and will be adding on the next couple drafts, will put the skins in great position for a competitive run. I don't think jay will ever be able to break the ceiling that we have seen in recent years, hovering around .500. Agreed and agreed. In all seriousness.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted December 23, 2018 Share Posted December 23, 2018 Just do the inevitable and let Jay go. BUT, make sure Bruce Allen is gone first; whether they bring in someone else to fill his spot or promote from within, bottom line is Bruce Allen must be fired; not demoted, not taking away one of his job duties, I'm talking removed from ALL forms of anything Redskins related. When Jay had a pretty good offense a few years ago, he was predictable, defenses knew what was coming and were able to snuff out his play calling. He struggles to this day with halftime and in-game adjustments, and in critical times in the 2 minute warning he either calls a time-out when it wasn't needed or he doesn't call a time-out when it IS needed. He gets caught up in the moment of the game and loses focus on what needs to be done; its like he calls a play, it gets stuffed, and his next call was based off of what he expected the previous play to achieve. I can understand those who want to give him another chance with a healthy team, but in the last few years this team has suffered a huge amount of injuries; who is to say this scenario doesn't repeat next year or the year after, being this team is in such shambles that next year they'll be lucky to get 5 wins. I'd rather take a chance at another HC, maybe keep Jay as an assistant in some way but not in control of play calling or any HC responsibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.