Retain Jay For 2019?

[Riggo-toni]

I can't find it in myself to care much one way or another, but Gruden absolutely should not go before Bruce. If you think Bruce or Danny will find a better coach, you likely suffer from battered fan syndrome.

 

I would like to see the entire Tampa Bay contingent eradicated.

[Renegade7]

36 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

They haven't been able to pull that off here so far so what makes you think that will change somehow with a new coach? Who was able to thus far? The team since his tenure has been in the playoff hunt 3 out of 5 years.  The coach has to deal with Snyder as an owner and Allen as a GM who many on this board believe to be the whole reason for the dysfunction. Back to back seasons the team has been riddled with injuries that would cripple even the most skilled coaching minds. Even with this he has his team on the brink of a playoff spot. The team has not performed well over the last few weeks but I ask you what coach currently would be able to handle that situation effectively? Is there one? So yes it certainly does matter in regards to his ability to be able to work with both Allen and Snyder in regards to retention.

 

I can think of a couple just off the list that got posted a couple posts ahead of us.  You got this backwards, this isn't about getting rid of Jay, this is about getting rid of Allen and the new GM picking someone better then Jay while fixing the culture of the team.  He does not get credit for not blowing a gasket that, that's called being professional, Ron Rivera could do that. 

 

There's a difference between losing over circumstance and losing over not coming correct.  Many have admitted to his playcalling being borderline predictable, are we looking for better then Zorn or what we need to get over the top?  If you don't think Jay can win a ring, that's the point and the conversation is essentially over.  I like him, but this is the most amount of games I've seen them win that they shouldn't in one season, his tenure is marked by his trademark post-game press conference "we weren't ready to play".  I'm tired of that answer, and I've been defending him about as far as I can.

 

We absolutely can do better in regards to preparation from one week to the next and ingenuity in playcalling.  I'd take McCarthy in a heartbeat over Jay right now, and again, no one is going to the games, you think that's going to change if we bring Jay back out there again?  Medicore will not save this franchise from collapsing in on itself.

[WelshSkinsFan]

15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I can think of a couple just off the list that got posted a couple posts ahead of us.  You got this backwards, this isn't about getting rid of Jay, this is about getting rid of Allen and the new GM picking someone better then Jay while fixing the culture of the team.  He does not get credit for not blowing a gasket that, that's called being professional, Ron Rivera could do that. 

 

 

This will never happen.  Dan is essentially the GM, he will not hire or empower a real GM, when he replaces Bruce it will be with another yes man/buddy that will do his bidding.  Allen is a snake but Dan is, has and always will be what is truly rotten about this team.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

19 hours ago, Gibbs828791 said:

1. Horrible playcaller

2. Cant manage time on or time off the field

3. Doesnt pay attention to details, apparently woke up Saturday morning and said "Hey I didnt see us do any long snapping this week"

4. Tried to sign a QB off the street to "run his system" in week 13..see Sanchez

5. Too much of a players coach, see Oline wearing suits out on the field Friday and getting destroyed in week 2

 

 

Get Lost!

 

The play calling can be fixed by hiring a decent offensive coordinator and handing the play calling duties over to them and let Jay have "head coach" input (e.g. going for it on 4th and 1, etc.).  Like when McVay was here.

 

Time management on the field has been a nightmare at times, but that's not his sole burden to bear, sometimes it's on the QB too.  But I agree that he at times takes the "safe approach" too often at the end of first halves when we have time and TOs left to attempt to put more points on the board.

 

Not sure if you were being funny about the long snapping, granted it was a problem last game to a certain degree.  

 

Signing Mark Sanchez was most likely a Dan/Bruce driven move.  This move was also to back-up Colt, no way knowing Colt would also break his leg and Sanchez would be starting.  I did not like the move either, not defending it.  But I seriously doubt that they brought in Sanchez thinking Colt would go down and he would be starting.  The Josh Johnson.........

 

Being a players coach can go both ways, sometimes it's great, sometimes is bad.  I would like to see him fall somewhere in the middle.  I thought he had lost the locker room and that the entire defense had given up on him and the rest of the team/coaches/etc.  After the Houston game, that wasn't the case, imo.  

 

I'm fine either way now on him staying or leaving.  If he gets fired though and Bruce is still here, nothing is going to get better as far as our next head coaching search, imo.  If he's gone, I'd like it to be with Bruce gone too and us hiring an actual GM again and let them hire their guy.  

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I wanted a poll not necessarily a discussion thread but I think a new thread would be necessary to have a poll.  I am curious to see the final tally.

 

Can you add at least two more options, this isn't a definite "yes" or "no" answer for some of us.  I'm in the "Yes - But only if Bruce is gone too" camp, because honestly, Bruce still being here and hiring another head coach is most likely not going to make much of a difference in turning things around.

 

And some are in the "Don't Care" camp. 

 

 

[Master Blaster]

1 hour ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

 

My vision of the best OC in the NFL is someone who is good at calling offensive plays.

 

 

Who said he was the best OC in the NFL?

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

Can you add at least two more options, this isn't a definite "yes" or "no" answer for some of us.  I'm in the "Yes - But only if Bruce is gone too" camp, because honestly, Bruce still being here and hiring another head coach is most likely not going to make much of a difference in turning things around.

 

And some are in the "Don't Care" camp. 

 

 

 

Good thoughts but I don't think I should change the questions after 98 have voted even if I could.  Obviously this isn't a scientific poll but if I added questions after 98 people have voted the reported results would be misleading.

 

I find the about even split interesting.  One other thing I think 95+% would vote to can Bruce and 110% would vote to compel Snyder to sell.

[Kelvin Bryant]

3 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

Who said he was the best OC in the NFL?

 

You wrote, "I think Gruden would be best in the NFL as OC." 

 

If I had said that, I too would try to pretend it never happened.

 

On reading that again, maybe you meant, "In the NFL, Gruden's best role would be as an OC." If that's the case, I still disagree, but not as violently.

[Springfield]

You think this guy’s actually winning you a playoff game?

[Smurf3]

Why not? Other than Gibbs and Shottenheimer, he is the best coach they have had and seems to have the temperament to work with the players and put up with Allen and Snyder (forget Doug Williams, he is merely a diversion). I bet Gibbs only agreed to come back briefly if he was left alone and Shottenheimer made the mistake of actually trying to coach, almost made the playoffs and got fired.

[Darrell Green Fan]

While it's hard for me to root for them to lose I recognized that incredibly lucky win, due to the bounce that went to Crowder, was probably more damaging long term than good. I can see Snyder keeping Grudon, any coach that gets his team near .500 with this amount of injuries will get credit no matter how undeserved it was.  But honestly does it matter?  With this  QB situation this next season is a lost one anyway.

[Veryoldschool]

30 minutes ago, Smurf3 said:

Why not? Other than Gibbs and Shottenheimer, he is the best coach they have had and seems to have the temperament to work with the players and put up with Allen and Snyder (forget Doug Williams, he is merely a diversion). I bet Gibbs only agreed to come back briefly if he was left alone and Shottenheimer made the mistake of actually trying to coach, almost made the playoffs and got fired.

 

Every time I think of Marty getting canned I remember how I knew Snyder would be a crappy owner.  A guy during his first year wins 6 out of his late 8 games and Snyder cans him because Marty is running things, what a putz.

[WelshSkinsFan]

2 hours ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

 

You wrote, "I think Gruden would be best in the NFL as OC." 

 

If I had said that, I too would try to pretend it never happened.

 

On reading that again, maybe you meant, "In the NFL, Gruden's best role would be as an OC." If that's the case, I still disagree, but not as violently.

 

Pretty clear that he did mean that would be Jay's best role and honestly it was good work as an OC that got him the HC gig.  We all like to rewrite history and say he is only here because of the Bruce Allen connection but he had a very good run as the Bengals OC and was very much in demand when we hired him.  For most of his time in DC our offense has been considered one of the best in the league and whilst McVay gets some credit for a couple of those years it was still Jay's scheme with Sean calling the plays.  I would guarantee he walks into an OC job if we do fire him if he doesn't end up as HC back with the Bengals.

[Burgold]

5 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

While it's hard for me to root for them to lose I recognized that incredibly lucky win, due to the bounce that went to Crowder, was probably more damaging long term than good. I can see Snyder keeping Grudon, any coach that gets his team near .500 with this amount of injuries will get credit no matter how undeserved it was.  But honestly does it matter?  With this  QB situation this next season is a lost one anyway.

Think of it as a football mulligan. Had the pass interference been called, we would have won against Houston. We were totally screwed over by the refs to the degree that the refs formally apologized to the 'skins for blowing the call. If the correct call is made Hopkins almost certainly wins that game and we go 7-3 on Alex Smith's last game.

 

So, it's a wash in real terms. Mind you, I agree with your larger point.

[Veryoldschool]

6 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

While it's hard for me to root for them to lose I recognized that incredibly lucky win, due to the bounce that went to Crowder, was probably more damaging long term than good. I can see Snyder keeping Grudon, any coach that gets his team near .500 with this amount of injuries will get credit no matter how undeserved it was.  But honestly does it matter?  With this  QB situation this next season is a lost one anyway.

Really?  The way I see it Crowder makes a nice play on a ball thrown by a 4th string QB who was hanging around who knows where a couple of weeks ago before the luckless Redskins call him after their franchise QB and backup went down with broken legs.  I'll take whatever bounces come their way considering all the misfortune they are trying to overcome.  

[KillBill26]

There is such a recency bias with many's perception of jay.  While pretty much everyone wants Dan and Bruce gone, jay is getting a lot more love now than he was a week ago coming off a losing streak.  And if the skins win the next two and make the playoffs, everyone will talk about what a masterful job he did with a banged up team.  Extension!!!

 

Reminds me of the knee jerk reactions to d Jax after week 3, people were devastated we let him walk after a couple big games this year.  He did very little in the rest of his games and then missed several due to injury.  I'm guessing those same people don't see letting him walk instead of paying him 11 mil per year as such a terrible decision.  A lot can change in a little time.

 

Today's feelings will be replaced by a whole new wave of emotions twelve days from now depending on our last two games.

 

[Peregrine]

Some people are forgetting that there is a 100% unarguable proven reason that we know Jay must be a terrible head coach.

 

Bruce Allen believes in him.

[Skin'emAlive]

Jay is not the Offensive savant we have had in the recent past (Shanahan #1 & 2, McVay). But his approach of run the ball, dont turn it over, and win through a strong defensive front has worked extremely well this year. In fact, if you look around the league right now, that is the very approach to stopping LA and NO. Had Alex and Sherf not suffered fluke injuries, I think we would have the division locked up. He deserves another year for keeping this team motivated. Look at what happened to Jacksonville at the first signs of pressure after only 1 key injury in Fournette. Guys like playing for Gruden, and that should count for something.

 

As for Allen: Dont care for him... but i think our last 2 drafts have been absolutely spectacular. Next years' draft will be the most important one of all of them. A guy like Tua or Grier and a sideline to sideline type of pass rushing linebacker would set this team up very well for the next 5 years.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

There is such a recency bias with many's perception of jay.  While pretty much everyone wants Dan and Bruce gone, jay is getting a lot more love now than he was a week ago coming off a losing streak.  And if the skins win the next two and make the playoffs, everyone will talk about what a masterful job he did with a banged up team.  Extension!!!

 

 

A lot of this is just us being crazy fans. I consider myself pretty tempered and level-headed, but just in the past two years I've swayed a lot on Gruden: 

 

I thought he needed more time and deserved praise in the September/October timeframe (culminating with the gutty Seattle win with no one healthy)

Then I thought his message had grown stale and things needed to change with the 1-4 run (including the lopsided losses to the Vikings, Cowboys, and Chargers along with the blown game vs. the Saints and the disgusting Thanksgiving win vs. the Giants)

Then I thought that the team responding despite being 5-8 and winning two home games against bad teams was proof they wouldn't quit on him

Then I thought the listless loss to a horrible Giants team with a chance to get to 8-8 was an awful look

Then I bought into winning the opener and starting 5-2/6-3

Then I thought the 3 straight division losses were inexcusable and he was clueless

Now I think that I liked seeing the team once again fight for him vs. Jacksonville

 

So, maybe I've proven two things above:

 

I'm not as level-headed as I thought, and

Fans always are going to ebb and flow based on current results

 

But actually deciding to fire a coach and pay him $10M not to be here is a much bigger decision than firing off a Tweet that "Gruden must go" when we lose to Dallas. 

[Veryoldschool]

11 hours ago, Peregrine said:

Some people are forgetting that there is a 100% unarguable proven reason that we know Jay must be a terrible head coach.

 

Bruce Allen believes in him.

 

Ummm...  I hadn't thought of it that way and I don't want to think of it.   I've given Jay credit for coaching with the damning handicap of Snyder and his sock puppet.  Now, this illusion too is shattered.  You have extinguished my last ray of hope.  I may have to resort to classic Russian literature for consolation because they copulate despair. 

[Jericho]

I feel that I like Jay more than most around here, but wouldn't be opposed to making a change. But I don't want to make a change just for the sake of making a change. I want to do so to improve the team. And right now, I'm not sure what strong candidate would want to take a job here. So you're basically dumping a decent option to buy a lottery ticket and hope you find someone better. I doubt that happens. In Bruce Allen I don't trust

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:24 PM, Veryoldschool said:

Really?  The way I see it Crowder makes a nice play on a ball thrown by a 4th string QB who was hanging around who knows where a couple of weeks ago before the luckless Redskins call him after their franchise QB and backup went down with broken legs.  I'll take whatever bounces come their way considering all the misfortune they are trying to overcome.  

 

Yeah they have had bad luck obviously but that does not change the fact that this was an incredibly lucky play.  As for Alex Smith he was no more of a "franchise QB" here then Brunell and McNabb where.   That's like referring to the play of Bruce Smith and deion Sanders here as Hall of Fame level.    No Alex Smith was the 3rd former good QB who played like their age after they arrived.  

[Veryoldschool]

After 115 votes it is a virtual dead-heat at 57-58.  I don't know what result I expected but I certainly didn't expect a tie, interesting.

[Burgold]

In economics, there’s something called the “dead cat bounce.” Basically, it’s a warning not to get fooled by an investment that’s been falling like a rock that has a sudden uptick. 

 

The idea is that that bounce may not indicate a buying opportunity, but a last surge before the cat dies. 

 

Now, was Jacksonville a sign of resilience and a sign of a bottoming stock ready to climb or was it the last bounce as a cat strikes the concrete after a ten story drop. 

 

In terms of whether Jay has or has lost the locker room and if the team is still fighting for him... one game may tell the tale, but it might also be a dead cat bounce. 

 

Is Gruden the right person for the job? If he stays will the Redskins trajectory be upwards, downwards, or as I think—- flat with a downwards tilt. 

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

In economics, there’s something called the “dead cat bounce.” Basically, it’s a warning not to get fooled by an investment that’s been falling like a rock that has a sudden uptick. 

 

The idea is that that bounce may not indicate a buying opportunity, but a last surge before the cat dies. 

 

Now, was Jacksonville a sign of resilience and a sign of a bottoming stock ready to climb or was it the last bounce as a cat strikes the concrete after a ten story drop. 

 

In terms of whether Jay has or has lost the locker room and if the team is still fighting for him... one game may tell the tale, but it might also be a dead cat bounce. 

 

Is Gruden the right person for the job? If he stays will the Redskins trajectory be upwards, downwards, or as I think—- flat with a downwards tilt. 

 

The team battled for Gruden down the stretch when it had been decimated by injuries last year also.  I attributed it Cousins but now Gruden's team continues to battle so I give Gruden credit.  At worse they finish 7-9 which I feel is positive for him given how they were doing before the before the crippling injuries.