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    • By Destino in ES Coverage
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      We’re still doing this?  Absolutely!  Despite all the compelling reasons to just let everyone go home and enjoy and extended offseason, this is not an option.  The games must be played, and therefore we the long-suffering fans will feel compelled to watch.  Even games no reasonable football fan would choose to watch like, for example, today’s Redskins Jets game.   

      Today’s convergence of sadness features the 30th ranked scoring offense (Jets 14.4 ppg) versus the 32nd (Redskins 12.0 ppg).  The first team to 15 wins!  With no playoff aspirations the compelling story lines for this game are largely limited to watching young players (hopefully) develop.  Dwayne Haskins gets his first home start and Derrius Guice is back from injury.   
       
      My, reasonable, goals for today’s game:  
      1- Score a touchdown 
      2- Score more than 17 points.   
      3- Haskins throws for 200 yards or more with no interceptions  
      4- Guice runs the ball at least 10 times and finishes at 3.5 yards per carry and healthy.  
       
      Hoping for a win at this point feels like setting myself up for disappointment, so I’m happy to settle for an entertaining loss.  
       
      Special thanks to @pez for some excellent Guinness beef stew.  If you absolutely have to stand in a frozen parking lot at 9am, the best place to do it is at the Extremeskins Tailgate with Pez and @Huly.  Great fans, great people. 
       
      The Redskins have declared for the following players as inactive: 
      Paul Richardson  
      Colt McCoy 
      Deshazor Everett 
      Chris Thompson  
      Ross Pierschbacher 
      Vernon Davis  
      Tim Settle  
       
      The Jets declared the following players as inactive  
      Nate Hairston  
      Darryl Roberts  
      Paul Worrilow 
      Matthias Farley  
      CJ Mosley  
      Jordan Willis  
      Leo Koloamatangi 
       
      1st Quarter - Redskins 0 - 6 Jets
      If you wanted to sit in the cold and watch a football game with some Jets fans at FedEx, but were worried that there were not enough seats available, I have good news.  There’s plenty of space available, so come on down and prove you’re a real fan by sitting though this in person.
       
      Jets dominated the 1st quarter even though they only scored 6 points.  The reason being that Washington managed only 13 yards of offense and a single first down.  
       
      Question: Is it still a check down pass if the QB never looks at anyone else?
       
      2nd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      The Jets have achieved an insurmountable 13 point lead early in the 2nd quarter.  All hope is lost.

      Is there a more perfect example of the Redskins offense than their first scoring drive in the 2nd quarter?  Interception gives the Redskins the ball on the Jets 16 yard line.  They proceed to march 10 yards backwards before kicking a field goal from the Jets 26.  It's perfect.  Two or three more field goals we can call it a day. 

      The Jets score again and if feels like they are are just piling on at this point.  Three touchdowns in the first half for them, just three points for the redskins.  Our streak of no touchdowns has now extended to 15 quarters. 
       
      3rd Quarter - Redskins 3 - 20 Jets
      There is a spider slowly descending from the ceiling in the press box and it's the most interesting thing that's happened during the third quarter of this game. 
       
      I have decided to allow the spider to live, provided it does not touch me.  I'm off to get some more caffeine. 

      4th Quarter - Redskins 17 - 34 Jets
      The first wave of Redskins fans, the few that are here, started streaming towards the exits after that 4th Jets touchdown.  As if the Jets didn't have this game wrapped up in the 2nd quarter. 
       
      Jet have now more than doubled their average points per game and have matched their season high of 34 points (and they missed two field goals in this game). 
       
      TOUCHDOWN REDSKINS!  THE DROUGHT IT OVER!  Guice took a short pass from Haskins  all the way to the house.  2 point conversion is successful on a pass from Haskins to Quinn. 
       
      The Redskins score another touchdown!  This feels like an embarrassment of riches, even if we are still certain to lose this game. 
       
      End of Game.
       
      Let's review those reasonable goals I mentioned earlier:
       
      1- Success.
      2- Close enough, I'm counting it
      3- Haskins did throw for over 200, but unfortunately did have an interception. 
      4- Guice was not given the opportunity to run the ball ten times today.  He did however score on a 45 yard TD pass and finish the game healthy.  I'll take it.
       
      Even though the Redskins lost, it was good to see the offense show some faint signs of life and end the streak of games without a TD.  The team looked competitive for much of the second half, and perhaps they could have made this a fun game if they carried that same energy throughout.  It was good to see Guice and Mclaurin show out today.  I think both of them have a future with this team that I look forward to seeing. 

       
       

       
       
       
       
       

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zoony

Some Hard Truths

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The panic over Smith...  

OK, it's not good right now, he looks a bit shaky. Playcalling is very conservative.

So, we could say that it's Smith, he's old, he's checkdown king, he's boring, he's slow... and believe that won't be anything except what we're seeing..

or we can realize that it's not just Smith, and there's factors that gop into why we're playcalling so conservatively, and why he seems a bit gun shy.

 

His OL has had an injury that turned out to be pretty significant in terms of the pressure caused by Lauvao being out... as our friend @KDawg mentions, it makes no sense to change two positions for one injury, but we did and our pass protection suffered greatly.
Lauvao's back, and right now we have our starting five intact for the first time in how long? (One or two games to start the season and what,,, maybe 3 games all last year?) The "Hot Boyz" pass rush was rendered ineffective and AP once again ran for (almost) 100 yards.

 

His receivers are a revolving door of injuries. It is imperative to develop rapport, but it's got to be hard to do when they are constantly hurt, missing practice, missing games..  yesterday we had 1 starter, Doctson, who has missed significant practice time to injury. We had Michael Floyd who joined the team 2 weeks ago. We have Mo Harris who played next to no snaps in preseason, went to practice squad and just got called up last week. We had Jehu Chesson, presumably, although i do not recall seeing him yesterday at all.

We start to see rapport developing with Richardson, and boom, he's out. 

 

So I am not panicking..  so far it seems as though the injury gods are being nice to us.. fingers crossed we can get the team back and he can grow.

 

~Bang

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53 minutes ago, bird_1972 said:

 

If that's the case, would rather we not draft QB at all next season and wait until 2020 draft. 

 

Instead, use the top picks of 2019 to bolster up OL and ILB.

 

That's fair too...

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39 minutes ago, Bang said:

The panic over Smith...  

OK, it's not good right now, he looks a bit shaky. Playcalling is very conservative.

So, we could say that it's Smith, he's old, he's checkdown king, he's boring, he's slow... and believe that won't be anything except what we're seeing..

or we can realize that it's not just Smith, and there's factors that gop into why we're playcalling so conservatively, and why he seems a bit gun shy.

 

His OL has had an injury that turned out to be pretty significant in terms of the pressure caused by Lauvao being out... as our friend @KDawg mentions, it makes no sense to change two positions for one injury, but we did and our pass protection suffered greatly.
Lauvao's back, and right now we have our starting five intact for the first time in how long? (One or two games to start the season and what,,, maybe 3 games all last year?) The "Hot Boyz" pass rush was rendered ineffective and AP once again ran for (almost) 100 yards.

 

His receivers are a revolving door of injuries. It is imperative to develop rapport, but it's got to be hard to do when they are constantly hurt, missing practice, missing games..  yesterday we had 1 starter, Doctson, who has missed significant practice time to injury. We had Michael Floyd who joined the team 2 weeks ago. We have Mo Harris who played next to no snaps in preseason, went to practice squad and just got called up last week. We had Jehu Chesson, presumably, although i do not recall seeing him yesterday at all.

We start to see rapport developing with Richardson, and boom, he's out. 

 

So I am not panicking..  so far it seems as though the injury gods are being nice to us.. fingers crossed we can get the team back and he can grow.

 

~Bang

Solid post.  

I never understood changing 2 positions for 1 injury either.  Its very obvious that Lavauo coming back stabilized us.  Romo even mentioned that we were controlling the line all day.  Despite it being Romo, I actually think he has a briliant football mind.  We should look at him as a coach.  That would put a dagger in the hearts of Turds fans.  Especially if he won some big games.  

 

All it will take is Alex playing a littler bit better and we will be a force.  That being said he isnt turning the ball over and that is a DAMN good thing.  

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4 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Solid post.  

Romo even mentioned that we were controlling the line all day.  Despite it being Romo, I actually think he has a briliant football mind.  We should look at him as a coach.  

 

Everything I've ever heard or read about Romo is that he is nothing but a top notch individual.  Other than being a Cowboy ex I'd wanna like and root for the guy!  lol

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49 minutes ago, Bang said:

The panic over Smith...  

OK, it's not good right now, he looks a bit shaky. Playcalling is very conservative.

So, we could say that it's Smith, he's old, he's checkdown king, he's boring, he's slow... and believe that won't be anything except what we're seeing..

or we can realize that it's not just Smith, and there's factors that gop into why we're playcalling so conservatively, and why he seems a bit gun shy.

 

So I am not panicking..  so far it seems as though the injury gods are being nice to us.. fingers crossed we can get the team back and he can grow.

 

~Bang

 

I think this would be the majority of my concern IF he was taking what was there and doing a good job of that. So far, not only has he been gunshy and conservative, but he's looked awful (at worst) and horribly inconsistent (at best) when it comes to hitting the throws he actually cuts loose. That's what I'm more concerned about. 

 

If he was making 3-4 more plays per game, I'd be OK with everything on offense given the context you did a great job of describing. 

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23 minutes ago, Springfield said:

Hard truth:  We can only win as many games as our defense allows us to.

Why are people even replying after this? After yesterday, it's clearer than ever.

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SHT:

There is no such thing as defense anymore in football. At any level. 

 

The NFL is Big XII football. It's CFL football out there. Open up your eyes. 

 

That's what the league wants. It's just 7 on 7 shell.

 

And this washington defense, while better than last year's version, ain't some 'dominate,' or 'very good,' or any kind of superlative or adjective you can come up with.

 

This defense if playing the Chiefs tomorrow would give up 40, easy. Just like if they played the Patriots, another 40. Just the Saints ... oh, we already did that one. Rams ... yeah, them too, another 40.

 

Whatever rank this defense is, currently, that which people are crowing about, pounding their chest about right now, would get molly whopped by the real contenders this year, mentioned above. 

 

It's as much about the current state of football and the evolution of the offensive game as it is another over valuing by our fanbase for something non existent. 

There is no such thing as defense anymore. 

 

Therefore, whatever stats or metrics you are using to define the washington defense as "good," are as relevant as theory exercise in 11 dimension physics. 

 

After three games against the Chiefs, Patriots and Rams, the stats wouldn't be top 5, or top 10, or whatever it is, that have people crowing. 

Washington is just another of the ramble of the 26 to 28 teams who are all similar and equal this year, as it is every year. Only about 4 to 6 teams any given year that are truly different and contenders. 

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5 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

SHT:

There is no such thing as defense anymore in football. At any level. 

 

The NFL is Big XII football. It's CFL football out there. Open up your eyes. 

 

That's what the league wants. It's just 7 on 7 shell.

 

And this washington defense, while better than last year's version, ain't some 'dominate,' or 'very good,' or any kind of superlative or adjective you can come up with.

 

This defense if playing the Chiefs tomorrow would give up 40, easy. Just like if they played the Patriots, another 40. Just the Saints ... oh, we already did that one. Rams ... yeah, them too, another 40.

 

Whatever rank this defense is, currently, that which people are crowing about, pounding their chest about right now, would get molly whopped by the real contenders this year, mentioned above. 

 

It's as much about the current state of football and the evolution of the offensive game as it is another over valuing by our fanbase for something non existent. 

There is no such thing as defense anymore. 

 

Therefore, whatever stats or metrics you are using to define the washington defense as "good," are as relevant as theory exercise in 11 dimension physics. 

 

After three games against the Chiefs, Patriots and Rams, the stats wouldn't be top 5, or top 10, or whatever it is, that have people crowing. 

Washington is just another of the ramble of the 26 to 28 teams who are all similar and equal this year, as it is every year. Only about 4 to 6 teams any given year that are truly different and contenders. 

I don't get this at all. While the game certainly has evolved, there is still a place for good defenses. Just because the Saints killed us doesn't mean that would even happen again if we played them. Rough day in the office to be sure, but to extrapolate that and just assume there are only 3-4 really good offenses and we couldn't limit any of them seems a bit premature. It's OK to admit the defense is pretty good...

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Just now, HardcoreZorn said:

I don't get this at all. While the game certainly has evolved,

 

It's seen at every level of football. 

 

Defense, as it was once defined, no longer exists. It is only about mitigation. 

 

The only time defense is apparent anymore is in circumstances where the talent level is disproportionately swayed toward the defense's favor. AKA, talent disparity. Which of course isn't defense at all, it's plain old 'got the horses, they don't.' 

 

Example, Alabama vs The Citadel. 

That game ain't about the existence or nonexistence of defense, that's about talent. 

5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

It's OK to admit the defense is pretty good...

 

You're not seeing football for what it really is. Sorry. 

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SHT:

2018 is the official year the entire NFL has gone college offense. 

 

It's amazingly blatant. 

 

Washington is no exception. Gruden is running the same college offense plays that Reid and Pederson and Nagy installed for Alex Smith in KC. They're in it too.  

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By your logic, nobody in the NFL has a good defense.

 

You're right that defense is largely legislated out of the game, but that doesn't mean good defense doesn't exist.

 

Yes its all relative, and we probably get lit up by the Chiefs or Rams. Guess what? NOBODY is stopping those teams.

 

Relative works both ways. Relative to the rest of the league, our D is quite good.

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SHT:

The college offense has had it's fits and starts in the NFL during this current decade. And it was apparently "figured out" especially if you listened to message board guy. It was dead according to certain people on ES, in the post Griffin fallout.

 

If I was a dj, I'd spin the classics for footnote reference here. 2011, Newton and the only QB who could successfully read option rush at the NFL level. 2012, the big year: Shanny and Kyle running Pistol with Griffin to a division title and playoff birth. Also too in 2012, Kap and Harbaugh running a college offense all the way to the Superbowl. 

 

At some point in time, probably prior, McDaniels incorporated most all Spread concepts for Brady in New England. At least in the passing concepts of diversionary routes on the outside to draw coverage with dink and dunk murdering from the slot. NE lead the charge with just killing people from the inside out. And he certainly ran college based concepts for Tebow in Denver as early as 2009. Payton in New Orleans has been on that tip too with Brees, at least in the passing design department.

 

And Pittsburgh for years have masked Big Ben in max spread concepts that only serve to spread the defense and draw coverage from routes only intended to be diversionary, only for him to throw a 2 yard pass to a runningback out of the backfield, or a shallow cross to a TE. Todd Haley did that for Ben, and is now during it in cleveland. 

 

Most notably with Mayfield, using the oklahoma propensity of running plays clearly with a predetermined primary receiver with the ever present shallow cross underneath on virtually every pass play as the reassuring safety blanket checkdown. It's one the primary, two the checkdown, or three escape the pocket and run. Rinse and repeat. Not rocket science. 

 

And in the subsequent years, more and more college based offenses are not only leading the NFL in offensive production but going on to the ultimate trophy. 

 

Reid and Doug Pederson and later Nagy all ran option based trickery, RPO and read option, with dink and dunk stuff, for Alex Smith. Pederson then lead Nick Foles to a championship last year. Nick Foles. 

 

 

And in 2018, every one from Trubisky, to the crotch grabber, to Alex Smith with Gruden, to Mahmes, to virtually every QB and all of the team in the league are a reflection of the wide open offenses that have matriculated upward from college. The read option is now just a staple of movement play action that every one uses and does. And that which everyone (every fan) has taken for granted. 

 

Become numb to dosage. 

 

But once upon a time, that was called "college offense," while "pro style" was an ambiguous, nebulous blob, constantly devouring any new concept into its collectiveness. And while that was pointed out at times here and there back in 2011, 2012 and 2013, message board guy shouted everyone down based upon the grand ole daddy of them all, wins and losses. 

 

Yep, the college offense has been figured out and solved. 

But yeah, SHT: college offense rules the NFL. 

 

 

Might as well hire Kliff Kingbury as Head Coach. Seriously.

 

Because that's what the league wants. And that is what it has designed. And that's what it is getting. 

 

It wants Big XII shootouts, it wants basketball scores, it wants teams passing every down, it wants each offense to score on every possession, it wants for the last team to have the ball to do a Montana drive with only 1 minute remaining for the culminating TD. 

 

And in large part, that's all that you see, every week. 

 

*(But personally, I've been over saturated by it). 

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9 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with your statement but would offer a little clarification on their behalf. When people say "out clause", I think they mean can the Redskins got out of the contract with little to no damage to the CAP.

Clause: a particular and separate article, stipulation, or proviso in a treaty, bill, or contract.

 

I feel like I've clarified this point a few times now, so I'm not going to continue debating the semantics of it. Out clauses are virtually non-existent, and unnecessary, in  NFL contracts.

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5 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Clause: a particular and separate article, stipulation, or proviso in a treaty, bill, or contract.

 

I feel like I've clarified this point a few times now, so I'm not going to continue debating the semantics of it. Out clauses are virtually non-existent, and unnecessary, in  NFL contracts.

 

Easy now. I was not disagreeing with you. My point was what people were trying to say - albeit with the wrong terminology - I believe I even said they used the wrong terminology and said the rest was not directed at you. Not sure what the above was for.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

SHT:

There is no such thing as defense anymore in football. At any level. 

 

The NFL is Big XII football. It's CFL football out there. Open up your eyes. 

 

That's what the league wants. It's just 7 on 7 shell.

 

And this washington defense, while better than last year's version, ain't some 'dominate,' or 'very good,' or any kind of superlative or adjective you can come up with.

 

This defense if playing the Chiefs tomorrow would give up 40, easy. Just like if they played the Patriots, another 40. Just the Saints ... oh, we already did that one. Rams ... yeah, them too, another 40.

 

Whatever rank this defense is, currently, that which people are crowing about, pounding their chest about right now, would get molly whopped by the real contenders this year, mentioned above. 

 

It's as much about the current state of football and the evolution of the offensive game as it is another over valuing by our fanbase for something non existent. 

There is no such thing as defense anymore. 

 

Therefore, whatever stats or metrics you are using to define the washington defense as "good," are as relevant as theory exercise in 11 dimension physics. 

 

After three games against the Chiefs, Patriots and Rams, the stats wouldn't be top 5, or top 10, or whatever it is, that have people crowing. 

Washington is just another of the ramble of the 26 to 28 teams who are all similar and equal this year, as it is every year. Only about 4 to 6 teams any given year that are truly different and contenders. 

 

This is why I don't get too caught up in certain stats...  I go by my own eyes.  With that said I definitely agree with this post.  We face those real offenses like you've listed, we'll be exposed like we were vs the Saints.

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7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Easy now. I was not disagreeing with you. My point was what people were trying to say - albeit with the wrong terminology - I believe I even said they used the wrong terminology and said the rest was not directed at you. Not sure what the above was for.

 

 

Because I feel like you're trying to clarify something that I've already clarified with my previous exchange.

 

And I don't mean that, or this, as combative, I'm just saying I don't find anything further on it to be necessary.

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Not Redskin related... but I'd really like to see a team assemble a line of maulers and a beast running back with a good drop back style quarterback and just pound the ball down these defense's throats. These teams aren't built to stop the run anymore. Rushing offenses seem to get giant chunks, but because of the shootout mentality coaches seem to go away from the run entirely too quickly.

 

Everything is cyclical. A mauling team would hand it to these built for speed defenses.

 

The problem is that most college kids are built for these spread offenses and the defensive players to cover them, so its tough to find the players to run such a system.

 

Football is evolving, but I don't love these spread systems. It gives the other teams more possessions and more opportunities to control the game. 

 

But it's a part of the game at the moment, so I get it and understand it.

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I agree fully Mr. Dawg. As offenses dictate the type of defensive players on the field, a "different" type of offense can take advantage.

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48 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Not Redskin related... but I'd really like to see a team assemble a line of maulers and a beast running back with a good drop back style quarterback and just pound the ball down these defense's throats. These teams aren't built to stop the run anymore. Rushing offenses seem to get giant chunks, but because of the shootout mentality coaches seem to go away from the run entirely too quickly.

 

Everything is cyclical. A mauling team would hand it to these built for speed defenses.

 

The problem is that most college kids are built for these spread offenses and the defensive players to cover them, so its tough to find the players to run such a system.

 

Football is evolving, but I don't love these spread systems. It gives the other teams more possessions and more opportunities to control the game. 

 

But it's a part of the game at the moment, so I get it and understand it.

 

 That would be a sight to see, a RB in the mold of a Riggins, Alstott, Campbell, the good old fashioned grain-fed, big-n-tough guys.

 But grain-fed has been replaced with nutritional drinks and proper eating and weight control diets.

We all see that one guy in our daily lives, he looks a bit overweight but actually the guy is simply packed tightly and bumping into him would be like bumping into a bus, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'damn, he should be playing football'.

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14 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 That would be a sight to see, a RB in the mold of a Riggins, Alstott, Campbell, the good old fashioned grain-fed, big-n-tough guys.

 But grain-fed has been replaced with nutritional drinks and proper eating and weight control diets.

We all see that one guy in our daily lives, he looks a bit overweight but actually the guy is simply packed tightly and bumping into him would be like bumping into a bus, and the first thing that comes to mind is 'damn, he should be playing football'.

 

We could get really close to this next year.

1. Grab the nastiest G we can find.

2. Find the best blocking TE we can find

3. Run Peterson and Guice 40+ times every game.

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The best to have happened to this team is maybe the Derrius Guice injury.  They may lead by defense first but AP is the best player on offense.  They go as he goes.  Guice may be special and probably as good as Elliot and Barkley, but they are very fortunate to have seasoned future HOFer as the #1 RB.  There is no doubt when he gets the football that Peterson is going to make an impact and not fumble like a rookie might.  He's also Smith's and Gruden's security blanket no matter what's happening on offense.

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19 hours ago, SAli457180 said:

The best to have happened to this team is maybe the Derrius Guice injury.  They may lead by defense first but AP is the best player on offense.  They go as he goes.  Guice may be special and probably as good as Elliot and Barkley, but they are very fortunate to have seasoned future HOFer as the #1 RB.  There is no doubt when he gets the football that Peterson is going to make an impact and not fumble like a rookie might.  He's also Smith's and Gruden's security blanket no matter what's happening on offense.

I also hope he is mentoring Guice. 

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