2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

59 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Gonna revisit my list from a month back, still like Harry at WR, first round is now the the wildcard of Edge or maybe QB. Rosen still in the mix for a day two pick. Like my choice of OL and DB still, think Long and Burr-Kirven bring value it their respective slots, especially after we got Foster getting a free pass from the league, Hardman and Moreau also day three value. 

 

Stidham, well that's a reach but maybe day three now..would still be happy if we drafted two QBs and dumped McCoy, or Keenum I guess. 

And also Savage.

 

With his workouts, he's no lower than a second rounder.

[DWinzit]

 

6 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

 

6 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Looking at that list, we are not going defense in the 1st/2nd. The highest ranked defensive prospect that we brought in was Rock Ya Sin. We are drafting QB, OL, WR, not necessarily in that order. As much as I'd like to see another impact defender, I am preparing myself to see us draft offense early and often. 

Yup, sure looks like that QB, WR, OL in some order then D.

Ya-Sin is the only DB on the list. Strange

TE looks to be a 5th or 6th round blocking TE are the only ones of interest. Reminds me of Matt Flanagan who was a PS'er last year.

[Going Commando]

The hype for Devin Bush reminds me of the hype for Karl Joseph in 2016.

[Burgold]

This is such a weird draft in that I know what I don't want, but I really have no feel for what I do want.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

And also Savage.

 

With his workouts, he's no lower than a second rounder.

I had him as a 3rd/borderline 2nd rounder pre-combine, so I’m in complete agreement here.  

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The hype for Devin Bush reminds me of the hype for Karl Joseph in 2016.

 

I can see why you feel that way given Bush's relative lack of production and your feelings about his instincts. Joseph was drafted at 14 overall though, despite having an ACL tear that needed surgery. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

I don't feel strongly about every major prospect in the first.  I'll straddle the fence and hedge on some.  But count me among the unabashed Davin Bush fans.  I think he will be a stud.  I was late to the party on him but mainly because i didn't watch multiple games until recently.  He's pretty much top 15 in just about every draft geek media board (and deservingly so IMO )I've seen including guys I respect a lot like Brugler who even has him higher rated than White. 

 

https://www.philly.com/eagles/doug-pederson-andy-reid-darrell-henderson-bryce-love-eagles-speed-2019-nfl-draft-20190417.html

Eagles’ need for speed in today’s NFL could be found in draft 

 

Speed has always been one of the fundamental components of successful football players and teams. But the changing nature of the game, with the way the league has limited defensive contact and the way offensive coaches have taken advantage, has placed a greater emphasis on finding sprinters and those who can cover them.

“Coordinators are stretching you now horizontally and vertically,” Raiders coach Jon Gruden said. “They make you defend every blade of grass. Jet sweeps, you got to have guys who can run that down. You got to have guys who can make open-field tackles. Just the bubble screen itself, who’s making that tackle? Guys got to play in space more than they ever have before.”

 ...The two defensive positions that have probably been affected the most by the offensive evolution have been safety and linebacker. And to account for the speed quotient, coaches have increasingly turned cornerbacks into safeties and safeties into linebackers. Some might have positional titles, but they’re hybrid players with the versatility to match up against receivers, running backs, and tight ends.

 

...The Eagles, despite their need for linebackers, are unlikely to expend a first-round pick on a top prospect such as LSU’s Devin White and Michigan’s Devin Bush. But both qualify as the new breed of smaller sideline-to-sideline defenders. The Falcons’ Deion Jones, whose size (6-2, 220 pounds) might have made him a box safety 25 years ago, was chosen in the second round three years ago. He probably would go one round earlier now.

“He’s not the biggest of guys, but he can fly,” Eagles tight end Zach Ertz said. “And he’s a guy you really have to account for on the back side of the running game, because he is so fast that sometimes he just outruns the angles that you have from an offensive standpoint.”

[kingdaddy]

7 hours ago, nonniey said:

No if that were the case Cards could have acted to get Keenum themselves. IMO - A more likely player trade scenario (and less popular for us fans) is Ionnidas for Rosen - straight up maybe.

I agree. Bruce has shown that by trading Fuller he'll move players rather than picks if he can. I don't see Ionniadas going for Rosen though since we just extended him. How about Settle or even one of our young corners? 

I could see one of our d tackles being dangled for Ramsey of Jax if they put him on the block. 

[TheShredder]

Talk is Montez Sweat could drop and if he's there at 15 they'll take him. 

[mhd24]

22 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Talk is Montez Sweat could drop and if he's there at 15 they'll take him. 

 

 

Source or your conjecture?  I know Sweat has a medical issue, but where did you see that the skins like Sweat?

[Going Commando]

I was watching Chase Winovich cut ups and #22 David Long really popped for me.  I haven't heard or read anything about him this year.  TBH he looked like the best player on Michigan's defense in a few of the cut ups.  Zierlein has him projected to go in the third or fourth round, and if that's his range, that is extremely appealing.  Makes a lot of plays on the ball and plays very physical all of the way through the stem and branch.  He's a field side corner.  Ran a 4.45 at the combine and had a 39 inch vertical + a 120 inch broad jump.

 

EDIT:  I meant boundary-side corner, not field-side.

 

I think this kid has the potential to be huge value at one of our third round picks.

 

As far as Winovich goes, I wasn't blown away with what I saw.  There is a lot to like with him, as he is fast, physical, and extremely high motor.  The first step is great, he has the potential for a very dangerous jab, and he's got very heavy hands with a highly effective push-pull.  He's not a pure speed rusher like Burns, the speed to power potential is there.  But he's a little bit stiff and he's not very smart.  He doesn't find the ball as quickly as he needs to, and so he ends up generating a ton of pressure but doesn't finish his rushes.  I like his power, motor, and first step, but I think he lacks the instincts and vision to play linebacker.  Not to mention he's a straight line runner with no hip swivel.  I think he's a down lineman 7-9 tech only.  But that's not a dealbreaker for me.  I just wouldn't draft him until the third round.

[The Consigliere]

I'll second Long. He seems like a damn good prospect. Really underrated. Zierlein had him rated there, but PFF has him as a 1st/2nd round turn pick. 

Interesting combine to say the least:

Speed Score: 71st Percentile

Burst Score: 74th Percentile

Agility Score: 100th Percentile (good lord!)

 

[Going Commando]

32 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I can see why you feel that way given Bush's relative lack of production and your feelings about his instincts. Joseph was drafted at 14 overall though, despite having an ACL tear that needed surgery.  

 

Joseph was a late riser too, and an undersized guy playing a position of relatively low value who got drafted way, way too high.  I think that's where he parallels with Bush.  Joseph hasn't been able to justify his draft range, and I think Bush won't either.

[kingdaddy]

On 4/19/2019 at 12:30 PM, The Consigliere said:

Via trade down? I don't mind doing that, though it isn't my #1 priority.

 

 

 

 

After the hell we went through with o-line injuries last year, we'd be fools not to address the line and add 1st or at least 2nd round talent. Build the line, pound the rock, rush the passer....The Ford kid is listed as #16 overall prospect, perfect fit for us. 

[Going Commando]

I want to see Long play in the slot.  His press coverages look good and he's nice and balanced in his backpedal with good hip fluidity.  And he's physical.  But he's not very long, and he's going to have a lot more trouble bullying NFL split ends.  I want to see what he can do in the slot because I think he might have rare agility and talent for mirroring quickness on crafty crossing route runners.  And I want to see him blitz, because I suspect he could be an effective blitzer due to the cat-quick feet and aggressiveness.

 

He's got a solid looking build.  Not as slender and lanky as Murphy, nor as chicken legged as Baker.

 

Talented outside corner with a lot of experience in the role, but the natural talent to play a slot role too.  I haven't really seen any serious issues in his game or skill set.  He's a little grabby through the break and he spends all of his time in press man.  But those are hardly knocks.  Perhaps PFF is right that second round is his floor.  I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason why Deebo Samuel should be a second round pick and David Long should go later.  They are extremely similar athletes.  He's good.

[Going Commando]

I only saw two significant mistakes from Long in the Ohio State game.  That's a cleaner sheet than anyone else had.  One was he got fooled by a late outside break because he was watching the quarterback, but was saved when the receiver dropped the catch.  And then the other was he got flagged for a pass interference due to some hand-fighting downfield.  It was a ticky tack call that got made because Haskins threw the ball outside shoulder when the receiver turned inside shoulder and made an awkward looking adjustment to an uncatchable ball that drew ref attention to the contact.

[Going Commando]

Wanted to also say that Michigan's head hunting safety #14 is a dirty player.

[Going Commando]

Yep, I'm sold on Long.  I finished watching all of his cut ups that I can find from 2018, and I love what I see.  This kid flat out dominates the contact window and he never panics or gets ruffled by headfakes.  Doesn't bail until he knows he has to and thus doesn't give up a lot of cheap underneath crap.  Coverage instincts are outstanding in press man.  Sniffs out trickery and playmaking opportunities--very smart player.  Tremendous agility shows up in his pattern matching and ability to navigate through the trash on crossers without losing any ground.

 

EDIT: I could be wrong, because I didn't chart the plays, but I think I only saw Long give up three catches in the six cut ups I watched.  He was the key to Michigan's coverages.  They ran some brackets in the Ohio State game, he'd line up in press in the slot against the funky formations, and he did play a handful of snaps at deep safety/off man.  But other than that, it was just him in lock down mode on the outside in press man all of the time.  Quarterbacks would basically glance at him from time to time and just move right down the progression.  They simply wouldn't target him.

 

Size and length are meh.  Play strength is poor but he is physical and he battles.  Recovery speed is good but not elite.  Those are the reasons he's probably not a first round lock.  If you run press coverage on the outside, then I would put a first to second round grade on him for that kind of scheme, because I think his future is as a good starter in that role.  But I don't think zone heavy teams will value him as highly.

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

@Skinsinparadise 

 

I like Lock, my talking about him was not to knock Lock. I’m not standing on a soapbox for Haskins either but I felt he needed defending from the picture that Volsmet was trying to depict which was for my taste a bridge too far when describing Haskins. 

I know people like Simms like Lock better, that’s fine and understandable. If we like either I’d be down. Not trying to get into the minutia of Haskins V Lock. I think they both bring different things to the table, and can both be players in this league. Cherry picking stats or clips of their worst games for any player can be misleading is all I was getting at. Every one of these guys has worts, just trying to be fair and balanced. 

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

I could see one of our d tackles being dangled for Ramsey of Jax if they put him on the block.  

 

Sounds like a good way to destroy any positive culture we've managed to build on that side of the ball.

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Joseph was a late riser too, and an undersized guy playing a position of relatively low value who got drafted way, way too high.  I think that's where he parallels with Bush.  Joseph hasn't been able to justify his draft range, and I think Bush won't either.

 

Joseph was largely thought of as a 2nd rounder until immediately before the draft, AND had an ACL tear, and was unable to participate in the athletic testing. He was drafted way earlier than expected, by a team that frequently reaches. That being said, I would have been extraordinarily happy if we drafted Karl Joseph in the 2nd, if he didn't have an ACL tear. He was extremely physical and led college football in interceptions, with 5 picks, when he went down with his ACL tear after week 4 of the season. I forgot how good his highlights were. 

 

 

Bush, on the other hand, was always a first rounder. He has no significant injury history. He was able to participate in athletic testing, and it verified what the tape showed, that he's a top 5 athlete at the position in the last 10-15 years. I know you don't like his instincts. I know you think White is better. So do I. But, Bush has a chance to fall into our range and I think that on our team, not only does he add much needed speed, but he otherwise is a great fit. He'd be playing behind Allen and Payne and Ioannidis and Kerrigan and Settle. Both Payne and Allen should be commanding double teams, so our LB's should be free to pursue sideline to sideline and shouldn't be having to deal with a ton of second level blockers. That should mitigate his size issues to a large degree. Bush is also, by reports, a great team leader and a very high character player. He would give us a positive influence for Foster, but more importantly, insurance in case Foster can't keep his crazy inside the can. I find it impossible to watch the gif of Bush running down Saquan Barkley without thinking how specifically useful that skill set would be for us. I really feel that, as much as, or more than any other team, that Bush would be a perfect fit here. 

Regardless, I don't think it matters. Unlike Joseph, who went high because one team fell in love, I expect Bush to be selected before our pick, because the league consensus is that he is likely a top 12 player. 

 

Edit: Mcqueen, I used mockdraftable, and you are right about both Devin White and Devin Bush being small for the position, statistically speaking. I still don't think Devin White is small. He's not particularly long, but he is thick, with big hands, and plays big. In any case, the database says that you won that argument. 

 

Edit #2: Not that this means that much, but ESPN ran a statistical analysis of which draft eligible players are most likely to make a pro-bowl. Devin White was first, with a 70% chance of making at least one pro bowl. Devin Bush was judged to be the second most likely player, in the entire draft, to make a pro-bowl, with a 57% shot. 

[Anselmheifer]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Sounds like a good way to destroy any positive culture we've managed to build on that side of the ball.

 

This. I wouldn't mind trading a high pick for Ramsey. He's been in the pro bowl twice, was an All pro in 2017, plays one of the two most premium positions on a defense, and is only 24. 

Our DT's are the heart of this team. They allow us a lot of flexibility. When you are applying so much pressure up the middle, you can get away with having OLB's, like Preston Smith, who don't generate a ton of pressure, but are great against the run. Conversely, because Allen and Payne are so good against the run, we could also draft Brian Burns and let him pin his ears back, and still be decent against the run. We could also draft a smaller, faster ILB core, and know that they will be kept clean. 

[wit33]

Sensational stuff by the consistent contributors in here.

 

Thank you! 

[Poindexter]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I was watching Chase Winovich cut ups and #22 David Long really popped for me.  I haven't heard or read anything about him this year.  TBH he looked like the best player on Michigan's defense in a few of the cut ups.  Zierlein has him projected to go in the third or fourth round, and if that's his range, that is extremely appealing.  Makes a lot of plays on the ball and plays very physical all of the way through the stem and branch.  He's a field side corner.  Ran a 4.45 at the combine and had a 39 inch vertical + a 120 inch broad jump.

 

EDIT:  I meant boundary-side corner, not field-side.

 

I think this kid has the potential to be huge value at one of our third round picks.

 

As far as Winovich goes, I wasn't blown away with what I saw.  There is a lot to like with him, as he is fast, physical, and extremely high motor.  The first step is great, he has the potential for a very dangerous jab, and he's got very heavy hands with a highly effective push-pull.  He's not a pure speed rusher like Burns, the speed to power potential is there.  But he's a little bit stiff and he's not very smart.  He doesn't find the ball as quickly as he needs to, and so he ends up generating a ton of pressure but doesn't finish his rushes.  I like his power, motor, and first step, but I think he lacks the instincts and vision to play linebacker.  Not to mention he's a straight line runner with no hip swivel.  I think he's a down lineman 7-9 tech only.  But that's not a dealbreaker for me.  I just wouldn't draft him until the third round.

I wouldn't touch Winovich or any other prospect that is 24+ years old....that includes Ryan Finley and Will Grier.  All those guys should be playing at a higher level but they are middling as middle of the pack players and at QB and DE their talents should be off the charts at their age.

 

Josh Norman and especially Terrence Newman are two guys who come to mind as older guys who didn't disappoint. 

 

But like you said, Brian Burns is that speed rusher who still has some power and he will turn 21 tomorrow.  He would be my likely pick at #15 if he's available.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 hours ago, wit33 said:

Sensational stuff by the consistent contributors in here.

 

Thank you! 

 

Couldn't agree more...