2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[wilco_holland]

It would be the most Redskins thing to do, to draft Haskins because he has connections. Coach doesn't love him? Who cares! He has friends in the right places. 

 

Ugh 😂 all these years and rumours have made me so salty. I just instantly trust does type of rumours because it is how we work. We do this stupid stuff. 

 

Imo if they bypass Jay in the draft, he is a death man walking. Dan should then just have the balls to fire him instead of letting him coach an extra year and then blame him for the results. "Cover your own ass" 

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Guys who look better, are better. Guys who do things 95% can’t see, aren’t actually doing the things the other 5% see.

 

I've come to realize this year that watching highlights is borderline useless.  I am no scout, no expert.  But it's amazing what I think anyone can see if they watch 5 games of any player.   Some are tougher reads than others.  But some to your point are just so obvious.   What rekindled my man crush for example on Marquise Brown was rewatching him some and doing tit for tat comparisons in my head to all the other receivers I've watched.  I've watched more receivers than any other position this year.  In my book, Marquise is a superstar if he stays healthy.  While I like some of the other WRs am not blown away by any of them. 

 

45 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I’m ok with Haskins because so many well respected people, and I sincerely include Steve in the group I have grown to respect greatly, ... they love Haskins. If people liked him, as they do Grier, then I don’t think much about it because of their own lack of conviction. Evaluating evaluators is more valuable than being able to evaluate players yourself, you can’t learn much from yourself... that’s why I watched Grier over & over & over. I trust the guys who like him, & there are a shocking number, or I’d not have watched him a second time through, much less a 3rd.

 

With Haskins it's tough for me.  Like you I respect Steve and some others take on him.  But I also know some draft geek types who I respect who don't care for Haskins.    I'd trust ANY QB that Jay wants.  It's not that I trust Jay implicitly but i do think he has a good eye for talent.  More importantly, I think Jay naturally knows who would fit his system.  So for example if Jay didn't want Haskins but he was shoved down his throat -- I wouldn't be on board with that.  

 

Heck if I learned that Jay loved Daniel Jones and wanted to go on that ride.  I'd suck it up and let the movie play out.   But I don't trust this FO imposing a Qb on Jay.   

[DWinzit]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  It gives me an excuse though to play with permutations based on mock drafts.   And the key point for me is there is all an outlier or two or three that defies the mocks.

 

A. Gone for sure

Nick Bosa

Q. Williams

D. White

K. Murray

J. Oliver

J. Taylor

J. Allen

 

B.  Likely Gone

D. Haskins

D. Lock

R. Gary

D. Bush

TJ Hockenson

M. Sweat

J. Williams

 

C.  Possibly (15 are below in some mocks but not in most)

Marquise Brown

Noah Fant

B. Burns

A. Dillard

C. Ferrell

D. Jones

G. Williams

C. Wilkins

D. Lawrence

 

If the draft went the way the typical mock goes then the draft will likely go with players from group A and B and then we'd pick from Group C.  If so that's good, I'd take Brian Burns.  But the draft always has some shake your head move that you don't see coming.  Even now, we hear rumors of Dillard going top 15, Daniel Jones, C. Wilkins  might go before 15, etc.   So something is likely going to go down this draft, too where we see a dude that is just about always mocked before our pick fall to 15.  

 

 

I think Sweat may fall to 15. He is my first as I think he would be with you. Then I am with you as Burns being the best selection barring a trade down. 

If Sweat, Burns and Bush are gone and I could see them go Ferrell or WR like Marquise. Wilkins sure would be a fun pick.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Master Blaster said:

 

The Dallas duo is far more than just speed. I think both of them are 6’4”+ and 250lbs+

 

Two rare athletes for the position who also are bigger than most. 

 

Absolutely, Jalen was probably the best player in the draft prior to his gruesome injury & lve is an absolute freak.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I think Sweat may fall to 15. He is my first as I think he would be with you. Then I am with you as Burns being the best selection barring a trade down. 

If Sweat, Burns and Bush are gone and I could see them go Ferrell or WR like Marquise. Wilkins sure would be a fun pick.

 

I like Wilkins but if they are in win now mode doubt they are going for another interior D lineman.

 

Keim in my tweet above went to town on a lot of gossip.  He typically is conservative as for sharing information.  So i take him seriously albeit some of it could be the FO purposely misleading him.  So i take it all with a grain of salt.  My translation of all those tweets -- teaming it up with other things Keim has said.  Here is what am guessing:

 

#15:  They'd consider Jones or Haskins but not Drew Lock if he falls there.  Jones for sure.  Haskins am just guessing might be. 

 

#15   Hockenson if he falls is in play.  Marquise Brown in play, too.  

 

#15:  Jay might want (based on his ESON article today and podcasts) a defender at 15 -- edge guy like Burns, MLB like Bush or whomever.  The idea is make your strength even stronger.

 

They could trade back and if they are thinking Jones or Marquise Brown at 15, I'd presume they'd jump at either in a trade back.

 

They are unlikely going O line in round 1.  Whether they should is another debate.

 

They might trade for Rosen but it won't be the their first rounder, they like him but have concerns

 

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Hope so.  I wouldn't hate Lock or trading a 2nd for Rosen.  But right now, I don't want Jones or Haskins especially if its a trade up.  And I'd rather go for another spot as opposed to QB.  Love Murray but assume that's not happening.    I think picking a 2nd tier type QB is a waste of a pick especially for a team like ours with multiple needs.

 

 

 

I’m on the Rosen train, getting first round pedigree in the QB room at a potential discounted rate (pick compensation and low pay) is too good not to explore. 

 

Id give up whatever to get Murray, but as you mentioned, he appears unavailable. 

 

No interest in second tier type QB, especially with two 2nd tier type vets set to start next year. 

[volsmet]

43 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I did.  If I recall at #11 for the Dolphins? 😀  I'll say this watching Haskins, it made me appreciate Rosen a lot more.  For me right now the only Qbs I'd take would be Murray, Lock, Rosen.  Am not really interested in any of the others.  If they have to take a 2nd tier type than Finley would be my guy.   I am also OK with Rypien if need be later in the draft.  I get that some draft geeks love Haskins.  Some don't though.  Like most Qb prospects this year, you don't have an easy consensus. 

 

 

 

Agreed. 

 

Murray

Rosen

Lock

 

Haskins if the coaches & scouts love him

 

Rypien later

 

Finley... that Boston College game had me on board, I’ll watch more before the draft.

 

Jackson the wild card in this new era of protected QBs & far less complicated offenses. 

 

I’d be happy to leave the draft with Jackson & then bringing in Justice Hansen for the ps. If they show nothing, so be it, we can get our guy in 2020. If you let Jackson start 16 games, you’re giving one of the most insanely gifted QBs to ever exist the chance to prove you’re a genius or lead you straight to Tua. That’s probably what we should do, imo. He’s all or nothing & that’s precisely what we need... hit now or grab the top guy in 2020.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

I’m on the Rosen train, getting first round pedigree in the QB room at a potential discounted rate (pick compensation and low pay) is too good not to explore. 

 

Id give up whatever to get Murray, but as you mentioned, he appears unavailable. 

 

No interest in second tier type QB, especially with two 2nd tier type vets set to start next year. 

 

I am the same way on all of this.    My #1 desire is no trade ups unless its for Murray but for Murray only if it isn't crazy.  Not sure though how they'd pull off a trade that high up that isn't crazy.   

 

On the Murray front I listened to a Tony Pauline today who said the Arizona owner wants to trade the pick and keep Rosen.  The owner according to him hates the idea of paying all the signing bonus money to Rosen upfront and then doing it again for a new QB just a year later.  Who knows if it's true.   But there does seem a little noise that maybe Arizona doesn't take Murray after all.  I suspect they still do it.  But I guess we will find out soon enough.    

2 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Jackson the wild card in this new era of protected QBs & far less complicated offenses. 

 

I’d be happy to leave the draft with Jackson & then bringing in Justice Hansen for the ps. If they show nothing, so be it, we can get our guy in 2020. If you let Jackson start 16 games, you’re giving one of the most insanely gifted QBs to ever exist the chance to prove you’re a genius or lead you straight to Tua. That’s probably what we should do, imo. He’s all or nothing & that’s precisely what we need... hit now or grab the top guy in 2020.

 

 

 

I was just watching Chris Simms ironically talk QBs and he brought his dad on for a segment and Phil gushed about Jackson's potential.  Also am watching a draft series on ESPN + that follows Jackson's prep for the draft among other players including Lock and Marquise.  Jackson seems like a good dude.  Eager to learn. 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  It gives me an excuse though to play with permutations based on mock drafts.   And the key point for me is there is all an outlier or two or three that defies the mocks.

 

A. Gone for sure

Nick Bosa

Q. Williams

D. White

K. Murray

J. Oliver

J. Taylor

J. Allen

 

B.  Likely Gone

D. Haskins

D. Lock

R. Gary

D. Bush

TJ Hockenson

M. Sweat

J. Williams

 

 

 

 

 

Dillard to Jacksonville is something I haven’t seen mocked, but certain people think they covet Steve’s guy more than Taylor because they need to prioritize keeping Foles healthy over the superior run blocker.... which would typically be their guy. Just some scuttlebutt.

[nonniey]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree.  It gives me an excuse though to play with permutations based on mock drafts.   And the key point for me is there is all an outlier or two or three that defies the mocks.

 

A. Gone for sure

Nick Bosa

Q. Williams

D. White

K. Murray

J. Oliver

J. Taylor

J. Allen

 

B.  Likely Gone

D. Haskins

D. Lock

R. Gary

D. Bush

TJ Hockenson

M. Sweat

J. Williams

 

C.  Possibly (15 are below in some mocks but not in most)

Marquise Brown

Noah Fant

B. Burns

A. Dillard

C. Ferrell

D. Jones

G. Williams

C. Wilkins

D. Lawrence

 

If the draft went the way the typical mock goes then the draft will likely go with players from group A and B and then we'd pick from Group C.  If so that's good, I'd take Brian Burns.  But the draft always has some shake your head move that you don't see coming.  Even now, we hear rumors of Dillard going top 15, Daniel Jones, C. Wilkins  might go before 15, etc.   So something is likely going to go down this draft, too where we see a dude that is just about always mocked before our pick fall to 15.  

 

 

I'd put Bush in the C catagory and Sweat in completely unknown catagory due to his heart condition - no telling if he goes where originally mocked, drops a bit or has a complete draft stock collapse (eg Maurice Hurst). I'm starting to suspect that last one is the most probable. 

[volsmet]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've come to realize this year that watching highlights is borderline useless.  I am no scout, no expert.  But it's amazing what I think anyone can see if they watch 5 games of any player.   Some are tougher reads than others.  But some to your point are just so obvious.   What rekindled my man crush for example on Marquise Brown was rewatching him some and doing tit for tat comparisons in my head to all the other receivers I've watched.  I've watched more receivers than any other position this year.  In my book, Marquise is a superstar if he stays healthy.  While I like some of the other WRs am not blown away by any of them. 

 

 

With Haskins it's tough for me.  Like you I respect Steve and some others take on him.  But I also know some draft geek types who I respect who don't care for Haskins.    I'd trust ANY QB that Jay wants.  It's not that I trust Jay implicitly but i do think he has a good eye for talent.  More importantly, I think Jay naturally knows who would fit his system.  So for example if Jay didn't want Haskins but he was shoved down his throat -- I wouldn't be on board with that.  

 

Heck if I learned that Jay loved Daniel Jones and wanted to go on that ride.  I'd suck it up and let the movie play out.   But I don't trust this FO imposing a Qb on Jay.   

 

As you know, I was the first here crushing Haskins ... I think he is a great talent but I can’t see him succeeding in the NFL. Before the gurus were pointing these things out, I put it here in gif form & in text. I think he should have returned to school, I understand why so many believe in him, but his foot work makes me cringe, I don’t think you can rely on him if read 1 is taken, if his rhythm is disrupted. I’ve seen young QBs put it together, he only had 1 year, he could grow significantly... the largest jumps are often from year 1 to year 2 & his year 1 was a Heisman worthy.

 

Trust what you see, check the analytics, confirm. 

 

Highlights are useless, Butlers best work is in his game film, he runs so,e filthy routes, another of Steve’s guys. He does have concerns, with some, on the breakout age... but I believe in the guy.

 

Absolutely... if Jay loves a guy, get him... even if it’s.. 🤢

 

Your initial read on a guy will be accurate 95% of the time. Other times you will think Bullard is awesome. 😬 

[wit33]

10 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Agreed. 

 

Murray

Rosen

Lock

 

Haskins if the coaches & scouts love him

 

Rypien later

 

Finley... that Boston College game had me on board, I’ll watch more before the draft.

 

Jackson the wild card in this new era of protected QBs & far less complicated offenses. 

 

I’d be happy to leave the draft with Jackson & then bringing in Justice Hansen for the ps. If they show nothing, so be it, we can get our guy in 2020. If you let Jackson start 16 games, you’re giving one of the most insanely gifted QBs to ever exist the chance to prove you’re a genius or lead you straight to Tua. That’s probably what we should do, imo. He’s all or nothing & that’s precisely what we need... hit now or grab the top guy in 2020.

 

 

 

The Jackson idea fascinates me, because of what this kind of QB can do to a teams run game day 1 of starting. Admittedly, I’ve not watched much of him, so I can’t say I’m all in, but the true dual threat QB I’m all in on. 

 

Gruden doesn’t appear to be the kind of coach that wants to mold his offense to the strengths of the QB, especially a mobile one. 

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am the same way on all of this.    My #1 desire is no trade ups unless its for Murray but for Murray only if it isn't crazy.  Not sure though how they'd pull off a trade that high up that isn't crazy.   

 

Ya, I’m with you, but I’d be willing to go “crazy” on the deal lol

 

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

On the Murray front I listened to a Tony Pauline today who said the Arizona owner wants to trade the pick and keep Rosen.  The owner according to him hates the idea of paying all the signing bonus money to Rosen upfront and then doing it again for a new QB just a year later.  Who knows if it's true.   But there does seem a little noise that maybe Arizona doesn't take Murray after all.  I suspect they still do it.  But I guess we will find out soon enough.  

 

 

This is interesting. It make sense. It’s not completely set in stone, soon we’ll see. Skins appear to be in the middle of it all. Fun stuff!

 

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

  

 

I was just watching Chris Simms ironically talk QBs and he brought his dad on for a segment and Phil gushed about Jackson's potential.  Also am watching a draft series on ESPN + that follows Jackson's prep for the draft among other players including Lock and Marquise.  Jackson seems like a good dude.  Eager to learn. 

 

What round do you guys expect him to go in?

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

I fear they underestimate the changes in the league .. even just since Cooley left it. The speed in the middle, the power in the middle, the athletes in the middle ... we need a guard desperately. Dallas & Indi prioritized the interior & it changed their team completely. I think we need an upgrade at center & guard, I’d be happy with Mccoy & Risner at 1 & 2. 

 

Everyone says you build from the inside out .. then they neglect C & OG 🤔.

 

 

 

I fell into the same dichotomy, and I was kinda wrong. I hated the Scherrf pick and wanted Leonard Williams. I still feel the Scherrf pick was bad process, when you have an elite DT prospect, you take them ahead of a Guard, and you especially take them ahead of a Guard when you have a F.O. deceiving themselves into thinking Scherrf would be fine at RT and that was worth a top 5 or 6 pick which it wasn't considering what was available. That being said, it's turned out fine. Scherrf became a great Guard, and Williams has only been a good DT, not as great as advertised, yet anyway. 

 

I honestly don't give a blank what talking heads think. I look for people who have a clear process, and outline it and present it and it's based on tangible things, not tape talk. So I don't really care what Cooley thinks of anything, and I agree w/the idea that these guys sometimes get stuck in their era. The vets are always the last to know about whats next generally speaking (its one of the things that made Bellichik so damn good, he's old as hell but stays on the cutting edge of analytics, generally speaking. That's super rare. He had a guy completely handling math based decisions more than a decade ago. He outsourced it so he could handle things in the present and not overload himself w/decisions he didn't have time to address intelligently in the moment and it worked. Same thing with trades, the draft, FA, etc. But thats rare. 

 

The Fant thing isn't a surprise to me. Why would he like a one dimensional pass catching athletic freak. Curious if he felt the same way about Engram who is essentially the exact same prospect in a lot of ways.

 

Speed Score:

Engram: 96th Percentile

Fant: 97th Percentile

 

Burst Score:

Engram: 86th Percentile

Fant: 97th Percentile

 

Agility Score:

Engram: 90th Percentile

Fant: 96th Percentile

 

Dominator:

Engram: 87th Percentile

Fant: 82nd Percentile

 

Breakout Age:

Engram: 82nd

Fant:  85th Percentile

 

Let's be honest. You're a flat out fool to not like Fant as a prospect. Dislike his blocking issues, fair enough, but a coaches job is to coach up a players skill set and mitigate and camouflage as much as possible a players weaknesses as hopefully they themselves work to shed them as weaknesses. Coach up his blocking and work to enhance his absurd athleticism and production in the passing game as a weapon. Don't do what the Bears are doing w/Shaheen, and what the Giants initially tried to do with Engram (complained bitterly about his blocking immediately after drafting him as if he was ever anything more than a giant WR to begin with). 

[volsmet]

38 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

I think Sweat may fall to 15. He is my first as I think he would be with you. Then I am with you as Burns being the best selection barring a trade down. 

If Sweat, Burns and Bush are gone and I could see them go Ferrell or WR like Marquise. Wilkins sure would be a fun pick.

 

Wilkins is so good, I’m with you on him, he’s become the most underrated prospect in the first imo.

 

[Malapropismic Depository]

I love the time leading up to the draft, and the draft itself.

But I do not like the whole post-draft.

Because of all the knee-jerk reactions by both fans and "analysts".

Fans react like they suddenly know that it will determine playoff chances, etc.

Then "analysts" will grade them, which literally makes zero sense, before the players step on the field at all for the first time.

You can't grade a draft until about 3 years later.

A lot of the highly hyped players will bust.

And a lot of sleepers will become great.

Everything I'm saying is kind of obvious, and these are things that most people know, but the thing is that many people don't actually act as if it's true.

[volsmet]

 

6 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I fell into the same dichotomy, and I was kinda wrong. I hated the Scherrf pick and wanted Leonard Williams. I still feel the Scherrf pick was bad process, when you have an elite DT prospect, you take them ahead of a Guard, and you especially take them ahead of a Guard when you have a F.O. deceiving themselves into thinking Scherrf would be fine at RT and that was worth a top 5 or 6 pick which it wasn't considering what was available. That being said, it's turned out fine. Scherrf became a great Guard, and Williams has only been a good DT, not as great as advertised, yet anyway. 

 

I honestly don't give a blank what talking heads think. I look for people who have a clear process, and outline it and present it and it's based on tangible things, not tape talk. So I don't really care what Cooley thinks of anything, and I agree w/the idea that these guys sometimes get stuck in their era. The vets are always the last to know about whats next generally speaking (its one of the things that made Bellichik so damn good, he's old as hell but stays on the cutting edge of analytics, generally speaking. That's super rare. He had a guy completely handling math based decisions more than a decade ago. He outsourced it so he could handle things in the present and not overload himself w/decisions he didn't have time to address intelligently in the moment and it worked. Same thing with trades, the draft, FA, etc. But thats rare. 

 

 

I lit my poor cousin up 5,000 times for the Colts lack of any inclination to secure the middle of their line, it’s baffling to me, these guys stay in shotgun & run traps/izone... tackles so often are ok if they can keep their assignment wide for 1.5 seconds, but a bad rep from a guard, in this league, sets you up in 2nd & 13.... done.... run your 2nd down draw & try to convert on 3rd & 6. Brutal.

 

People also underestimate how much it impacts a QB to trust he’s protected inside. Guard play is about your QB & running game, everything that matters... everything that keeps your defense rested &, therefore, less susceptible to injury. Give me my guards & my center.

 

That all said, I was infuriated that we passed on Williams, I had just watched Scherff get mauled by Derek Barnett in a bowl game, I was not particularly high on what I thought was going to be our new RT; Barnett just abused him all game.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you listen to him in his podcasts, he doesn't disagree with your point.  He just seems convinced you can get good interior O lineman after the first round easier than other positions.  He's really ripped the Flowers signing, he thinks he is going to stink at LG.  So he does think they need to upgrade but not in round 1.

 

My biggest man crush at guard is Cody Ford.  If they trade down, I'd be cool with him.  I am semi cool with Jonah at 15 but he's not my top choice. 

 

Ripping flowers is candy from a baby easy. He's been just about the worst OT in the NFL since '15 that kept a starting job for the majority of that time period. Of course he ripped the signing. Flowers is a project and depth, treat him as such. 

 

You used to be able to get away w/passing on Guards till round 2, not so much anymore. Elite Guards go in the first round all over the place now, inside the top 10, easy. One of the best picks of the '18 draft was the Colts just grabbing interior line superstar Quentin Nelson. Centers still come at a discount, you can usually get a pro bowl caliber one in good center classes in the 20's/late 1st and sometimes 2nd, but forget it w/regards to Guard. If you have a legit quality class of guards, you'll see several go in round 1, and if you wait till round 2, probably 3-5 will be peeled off depending upon the strength of the prospects at the top. 

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

I love the time leading up to the draft, and the draft itself.

But I do not like the whole post-draft.

Because of all the knee-jerk reactions by both fans and "analysts".

Fans react like they suddenly know that it will determine playoff chances, etc.

Then "analysts" will grade them, which literally makes zero sense, before the players step on the field at all for the first time.

You can't grade a draft until about 3 years later.

A lot of the highly hyped players will bust.

And a lot of sleepers will become great.

Everything I'm saying is kind of obvious, and these are things that most people know, but the thing is that many people don't actually act as if it's true.

 

😂 The analysts grading drafts, the week after the draft, all week, it’s excruciating. It makes no sense, we already know who they like... it’s hard to believe that stuff gets high enough ratings to keep running with it, but people love their football.

[Skinsinparadise]

Cooley isn't the be all and end all but he's nailed some prospects and seems to be sharper than our FO as to FA -- he's nailed just about every bust FA signing in real time right after they signed the dude.  I think he's batting 1000 on the count. 

 

I haven't watched Fant that closely to have my own take.  Cooley though not on an island questioning him.    Cooley does love Hockenson. 

 

Here are the Bob McGinn scouts take on Fant.

 

Two of the 14 executives left Fant off their ballot entirely. One of them referred to Fant as a “coach killer,” a label often applied to Ebron in Detroit.

“Fant is more of a natural athlete than Hockenson with his movements, and he can run, too,” the second scout said. “I just don’t feel like he’s got very good football feel or instincts. He doesn’t have very good hands. He’s not a natural hands catcher. As a blocker he can position, but he’s just not strong. I don’t think he has that true grit to him.

 

NOAH FANT, Iowa (6-4, 249, 4.53, 1-2): Led all TEs in the vertical jump (39 ½), broad jump (10-7) and 3-cone (6.81). “He’s no slouch,” one scout said. “First rounder. Some people have Fant ahead because his movement skills are a click ahead of Hockenson’s. He’s a little bit more of a matchup problem.” Junior from Omaha, Neb. “A lot of people will go for him because he can run and stretch the secondary,” said a second scout. “He’s not a blocker. I thought he was (lazy). Everybody was talking about Fant and then a kid on the same team won the John Mackey Award.” Finished with 78 receptions for 1,082 yards (13.9) and 19 TDs. “Not as well-rounded as his counterpart in Iowa as a blocker,” a third scout said. “Still learning how to get depth on his routes and just being a consistent route runner. He’s got the athleticism and the hands to be a good receiving tight end. He just needs to be a better cover-up blocker … I don’t know if it’s laziness or lack of opportunity at times because of the other guy. Is he unsure? Is he unaware? Or is it lazy? I didn’t just sit there and say he’s just a dog.” Wonderlic of 25.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

I don't think Bush will be there.  Everyone is high on him and the NFL is a copycat league.  GB is his floor as they NEED MLB speed.

 

My thoughts too. I like Bush and White plenty, but don't expect either to available outside of the top 10-12. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley isn't the be all and end all but he's nailed some prospects and seems to be sharper than our FO as to FA -- he's nailed just about every bust FA signing in real time right after they signed the dude.  I think he's batting 1000 on the count. 

 

 

I don't follow him much, but I'm seeing his name a lot when talking about grading players.

So it had me wondering if he's a legit player evaluator.

Does he have the ability and/or desire to do it as an NFL team employee ?

[The Consigliere]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Cooley isn't the be all and end all but he's nailed some prospects and seems to be sharper than our FO as to FA -- he's nailed just about every bust FA signing in real time right after they signed the dude.  I think he's batting 1000 on the count. 

 

I haven't watched Fant that closely to have my own take.  Cooley though not on an island questioning him.    Cooley does love Hockenson. 

 

Here are the Bob McGinn scouts take on Fant.

 

Two of the 14 executives left Fant off their ballot entirely. One of them referred to Fant as a “coach killer,” a label often applied to Ebron in Detroit.

“Fant is more of a natural athlete than Hockenson with his movements, and he can run, too,” the second scout said. “I just don’t feel like he’s got very good football feel or instincts. He doesn’t have very good hands. He’s not a natural hands catcher. As a blocker he can position, but he’s just not strong. I don’t think he has that true grit to him.

 

NOAH FANT, Iowa (6-4, 249, 4.53, 1-2): Led all TEs in the vertical jump (39 ½), broad jump (10-7) and 3-cone (6.81). “He’s no slouch,” one scout said. “First rounder. Some people have Fant ahead because his movement skills are a click ahead of Hockenson’s. He’s a little bit more of a matchup problem.” Junior from Omaha, Neb. “A lot of people will go for him because he can run and stretch the secondary,” said a second scout. “He’s not a blocker. I thought he was (lazy). Everybody was talking about Fant and then a kid on the same team won the John Mackey Award.” Finished with 78 receptions for 1,082 yards (13.9) and 19 TDs. “Not as well-rounded as his counterpart in Iowa as a blocker,” a third scout said. “Still learning how to get depth on his routes and just being a consistent route runner. He’s got the athleticism and the hands to be a good receiving tight end. He just needs to be a better cover-up blocker … I don’t know if it’s laziness or lack of opportunity at times because of the other guy. Is he unsure? Is he unaware? Or is it lazy? I didn’t just sit there and say he’s just a dog.” Wonderlic of 25.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Don't be mad if I read through two lines and then fall asleep. Not interested in takes like that. Go to one scout he says one thing, go to another, he says another. I posted a few weeks ago the scouts/F.O. view of the QB Prospects in late October '17. They had freaking Luke Falk ahead of Mayfield. They had Mayfield outside of their top 5.

 

I don't believe tape scouts about anything anymore. I think they're found out at this point. Way too much bias injected into takes. Why should anyone, anywhere be surprised that a TE prospect that isn't a good blocker, isn't liked by a lot of scouts? Shocking. Do like that last tweet though, based one real measurable #'s.  

 

I like Hockenson more because he allows you to camouflage your intentions better. He's a great blocker, and a very good passing game weapon and so if he's in, who the heck knows if it is a pass or a run. I get the value of that. Fant is not that. He needs to become adequate at blocking so he isn't telegraphing pass plays, but he can also simply be used as a passing game weapon period. 

 

I also like Warring a lot and would target him if Hockenson and Fant are gone. Not sure if he's gonna last to round 3 yet, really unclear. 

 

 

[volsmet]

On 1/29/2019 at 8:53 PM, volsmet said:

Avert your eyes, please get any children under the age of 16 out of the room before scrolling down; This could scar a child for life. 

 

15 passes from a win, two big completions, one a 2 yard dump that only a 5 star recruit grabs with 1 hand, the other probably an int if playing Bama/Clemson/ExtremeSkins all stars. 

 

This is a game Haskins was the hero of, he’s not the answer to any teams problems, I hope he goes to NY if Jones doesn’t. This isn’t just bad, this is ridiculous.

 

 

#NeverForget

 

In January Haskins was the darling of the draft guru world.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

I don't follow him much, but I'm seeing his name a lot when talking about grading players.

So it had me wondering if he's a legit player evaluator.

Does he have the ability and/or desire to do it as an NFL team employee ?

 

Cooley isn't really an evaluator.   But like us, he will take a look at players and evaluate them.  And over the years he's been pretty good as to being on the money.  And considering he knows a thing or two about the TE position I take him most seriously on that position. 

 

15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Don't be mad if I read through two lines and then fall asleep. Not interested in takes like that. Go to one scout he says one thing, go to another, he says another. I posted a few weeks ago the scouts/F.O. view of the QB Prospects in late October '17. They had freaking Luke Falk ahead of Mayfield. They had Mayfield outside of their top 5.

 

I don't believe tape scouts about anything anymore. I think they're found out at this point. Way too much bias injected into takes. Why should anyone, anywhere be surprised that a TE prospect that isn't a good blocker, isn't liked by a lot of scouts? Shocking. Do like that last tweet though, based one real measurable #'s.  

 

I like Hockenson more because he allows you to camouflage your intentions better. He's a great blocker, and a very good passing game weapon and so if he's in, who the heck knows if it is a pass or a run. I get the value of that. Fant is not that. He needs to become adequate at blocking so he isn't telegraphing pass plays, but he can also simply be used as a passing game weapon period. 

 

I also like Warring a lot and would target him if Hockenson and Fant are gone. Not sure if he's gonna last to round 3 yet, really unclear. 

 

 

 

I am with the point in theory.  I am not saying any scout is the be all and end all and certainly no draft geek is    I tend to remember though who ends up right or wrong over the years.  Cooley has been pretty accurate relatively speaking.   And I figure he knows a thing or two about the TE position.   If I recall he liked Warring, I know he liked Sternberger.  He loves Hockenson.  

 

As for Fant he thinks he's overrated as a pass catcher, he's elaborated on it.  I didn't pay enough attention to recall the details.   

 

The thing is I notice is some but not all prospects get mixed reviews when you hear leaks from scouts.   Noah Fant is one of those dudes who I noticed some love and some not so much.    Could some of that be said by scouts purposely to mislead.  Sure, why not.  

 

I have watched Hockenson and gave my take on him awhile back in detail.  Love the player.  I haven't gotten to Fant, yet.