2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[max21]

The 2012 draft is on NFL network, oh the memories. The fans there were wild, we were all so excited lol. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Cooley's podcast with Keim on it.  Some tidbits

 

Cooley doubled down on liking Hockenson and Marquise Brown.  Though agreed with Keim that a pass rusher would be good at 15.  He seemed to like Burns but didn't elaborate on it.  He likes Devin Bush as does Keim and they talked about how Dallas' defense was transformed with having 2 stud MLBs.  Cooley likes the idea of having 2 fast MLBs in their 3-4.

 

Cooley also doubled down much harder on not liking Noah Fant.  He has said in a previous podcast that he's overrated and thinks he's really raw. 

 

As for another receiver Cooley liked he mentioned AJ Brown but doesn't like him to the degree that he likes Marquise Brown.  He doubled down on not taking Metcalf until the 2nd round, he thinks he's too raw to be in the first. 

 

Keim doesn't think they take a QB but wouldn't be stunned if they took Daniel Jones at 15.  And hinted for the 2nd time they like Jones better than Drew Lock.  That stemmed off Cooley saying he doesn't think Jones has it in him to be an upper half of the league QB but he wouldn't be surprised that of all the QBs in this draft he'd be the most pro ready for this season.  Keim doubled down that pro ready is the be all and end all for them this draft.  

 

Cooley said he likes Cody Ford and really likes Risner but doesn't want to take a guard in the first round. He said Risner is his fav player in the draft.  Keim agreed as to no guard in the first round.   Cooley doubled down on Flowers won't cut it at LG.

 

From a Keim article today

All of these thoughts frame the way Washington will approach the draft and what it's looking to build. Gruden has a vision; it started to become a reality last season but only for a short time. They need it for 16 games.

"We received the opening kickoff, we get two or three first downs, we chew up some clock, we punt it, we back them up, we get the ball back, we play field position and we win games 20-17 or 23-16," he said. "It was a great recipe for us early. I like playing that way."

[wilco_holland]

The Giants can't be that stupid...

 

To be honest. If we find a good QB in this years or next years draft...we kinda have the upper hand. Jones is not a good QB prospect and Wentz & Prescott will kill cap room for the other two teams. 

 

But yeah. Been to long a Redskins fan to really believe that 😢

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

 

Added bonus of watching it happen to the Giants, who seems to be an absolute dumpster fire right now.

 

They’re trying to take our identity. 

40 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Cooley's podcast with Keim on it.  Some tidbits

 

Cooley doubled down on liking Hockenson and Marquise Brown.  Though agreed with Keim that a pass rusher would be good at 15.  He seemed to like Burns but didn't elaborate on it.  He likes Devin Bush as does Keim and they talked about how Dallas' defense was transformed with having 2 stud MLBs.  Cooley likes the idea of having 2 fast MLBs in their 3-4.

 

 

 

Dallas took LVE with Sean Lee on the roster already. I think that speed in the middle changes the game in this league, watching Smith chase down DeSean was a thing of beauty, and, at the same time, sickening... because it’s Dallas. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

They’re trying to take our identity. 

 

Dallas took LVE with Sean Lee on the roster already. I think that speed in the middle changes the game in this league, watching Smith chase down DeSean was a thing of beauty, and, at the same time, sickening... because it’s Dallas. 

 

 

[volsmet]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Cooley said he likes Cody Ford and really likes Risner but doesn't want to take a guard in the first round. He said Risner is his fav player in the draft.  Keim agreed as to no guard in the first round.   Cooley doubled down on Flowers won't cut it at LG.

 

 

I fear they underestimate the changes in the league .. even just since Cooley left it. The speed in the middle, the power in the middle, the athletes in the middle ... we need a guard desperately. Dallas & Indi prioritized the interior & it changed their team completely. I think we need an upgrade at center & guard, I’d be happy with Mccoy & Risner at 1 & 2. 

 

Everyone says you build from the inside out .. then they neglect C & OG 🤔.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I fear they underestimate the changes in the league .. even just since Cooley left it. The speed in the middle, the power in the middle, the athletes in the middle ... we need a guard desperately. Dallas & Indi prioritized the interior & it changed their team completely. I think we need an upgrade at center & guard, I’d be happy with Mccoy & Risner at 1 & 2. 

 

Everyone says you build from the inside out .. then they neglect C & OG 🤔.

 

 

 

If you listen to him in his podcasts, he doesn't disagree with your point.  He just seems convinced you can get good interior O lineman after the first round easier than other positions.  He's really ripped the Flowers signing, he thinks he is going to stink at LG.  So he does think they need to upgrade but not in round 1.

 

My biggest man crush at guard is Cody Ford.  If they trade down, I'd be cool with him.  I am semi cool with Jonah at 15 but he's not my top choice. 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Oline is never a bad thing to invest in. Especially after the ragtag attempts we’ve mad at LG expecting Lavauo to withstand the rigors of a season. It would be safe investment but I understand the reluctance to invest in it w/ a 1st rd pick. However we can’t continue to discount its importance especially after these last two seasons of MASH unit results, derailing our entire approach on Offense.

[nonniey]

27 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I fear they underestimate the changes in the league .. even just since Cooley left it. The speed in the middle, the power in the middle, the athletes in the middle ... we need a guard desperately. Dallas & Indi prioritized the interior & it changed their team completely. I think we need an upgrade at center & guard, I’d be happy with Mccoy & Risner at 1 & 2. 

 

Everyone says you build from the inside out .. then they neglect C & OG 🤔.

 

 

I think we have a good center I'd prioritize OG and OT over center.

[volsmet]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Gracious. I love the kid, I heard him discussed as a day 3 possibly in the fall ... but at that point people speculated he may only weigh 210-215lbs because he moved near the line more like a nb than a lb. on the opposite end, many thought White was great, but wished he moved like Bush. The combine arrives & they’re nearly identical... incredible.

 

We need explosive players, that’s where you give yourself a chance at the game deciding play. We have the guys to do the ugly work, we don’t have the guys to rush a bad decision or, better yet, simply make a play because they’re better at football than the guy across .. no fear, no play makers. Foster is step one in changing that, we need someone who can make something happen quickly, and White/Bush each offer that... the big boys up front would free up a lot of room to run, I’m getting excited about it again.

 

32 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If you listen to him in his podcasts, he doesn't disagree with your point.  He just seems convinced you can get good interior O lineman after the first round easier than other positions.  He's really ripped the Flowers signing, he thinks he going to stink at LG.  So he does think they need to upgrade but not in round 1.

 

My biggest man crush at guard is Cody Ford.  If they trade down, I'd be cool with him.  I am semi cool with Jonah at 15 but he's not my top choice. 

 

We weren’t all that far from witnessing enough tragedies to have #QBstrong trending last year.

 

*Need to watch Ford & Jonah. Lindstrom & Dillard as well. The elite grouping. 

[Skinsinparadise]

With the 2nd pick in the draft?   Just short I presume of getting Tua.  Like volsmet I love Jeudy.  He's be my #1 WR if he were in this draft by a mile.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

Love Ceedee Lamb, too albeit not as much

 

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I really want an edge rusher, or one of the Devins in round 1. If we draft a QB we will be handcuffed to this QB who we're selecting at #15 for 3 to 4 years if he busts. 

 

I'm hoping for Rosen and using our high draft pick on defense. That way we have our QBOTF and a luxury defender to make this defense nasty. 

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Keim doesn't think they take a QB but wouldn't be stunned if they took Daniel Jones at 15.  And hinted for the 2nd time they like Jones better than Drew Lock.  That stemmed off Cooley saying he doesn't think Jones has it in him to be an upper half of the league QB but he wouldn't be surprised that of all the QBs in this draft he'd be the most pro ready for this season.  Keim doubled down that pro ready is the be all and end all for them this draft.  

Sadly this is the reason they could very well take Jones. 

Lame ducks have the keys to the draft.

None of the QB's are worth a crap except for a late round pick for a 4 year back up and occasional starter.

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 minute ago, DWinzit said:

Sadly this is the reason they could very well take Jones. 

Lame ducks have the keys to the draft.

None of the QB's are worth a crap except for a late round pick for a 4 year back up and occasional starter.

 

So basically to them, pro ready is just a guy that played in a pro style offense, against good defenses. Jones sucked, I'm not seeing a first round QB at all when I watch him

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Sadly this is the reason they could very well take Jones. 

Lame ducks have the keys to the draft.

None of the QB's are worth a crap except for a late round pick for a 4 year back up and occasional starter.

 

 

Yeah it seems like multiple times Keim has hinted he wouldn't be shocked if they took Jones.  Having said that, he thinks they ultimately do something else.  But he thinks its on the table. 

 

 Am getting a sense that Doug is weighing more than he typically does on personnel on the QB spot.  And he and Jay might not always see eye to eye on that front.

 

I trust Jay over Doug on personnel issues including QB.  Part of it for me was an interview that Doug did years back where he seem to be crowing that he was the one in the Tampa FO who touted that Josh Freeman should be their guy.  i know Josh had a decent rookie year but his career didn't seem to go anywhere otherwise. 

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

4 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

So basically to them, pro ready is just a guy that played in a pro style offense, against good defenses. Jones sucked, I'm not seeing a first round QB at all when I watch him

I don't see him as being worth a 3rd round pick. They figure he is better than Case.

They need to win now and the only QB who has a shot at that is Murray. 

I think they should run with CK.

[wit33]

I see the Skins sitting out on QB in the early rounds. The Keenum trade provides insurance and a “form” of stability at the QB spot for 2019, providing time to let season play out and Alex Smith situation to materialize.

 

If season gets away from them, then a full reset button next off season will take place; New GM, coach, and young QB. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I see the Skins sitting out on QB in the early rounds. The Keenum trade provides insurance and a “form” of stability at the QB spot for 2019, providing time to let season play out and Alex Smith situation to materialize.

 

If season gets away from them, then a full reset button next off season will take place; New GM, coach, and young QB. 

 

Hope so.  I wouldn't hate Lock or trading a 2nd for Rosen.  But right now, I don't want Jones or Haskins especially if its a trade up.  And I'd rather go for another spot as opposed to QB.  Love Murray but assume that's not happening.    I think picking a 2nd tier type QB is a waste of a pick especially for a team like ours with multiple needs.

 

 

 

On another note this is from a Giants reporter.  In his case selling Devin White to Giant fans.  IMO the same point applies to us if Devin Bush falls. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

If I am going to be tortured with all this Daniel Jones rumor stuff, I figured Volsmet should share some pain too...😀

 

 

 

 

[mhd24]

I don't think Bush will be there.  Everyone is high on him and the NFL is a copycat league.  GB is his floor as they NEED MLB speed.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

With the 2nd pick in the draft?   Just short I presume of getting Tua.  Like volsmet I love Jeudy.  He's be my #1 WR if he were in this draft by a mile.  

 

 

 

 

 

Love Ceedee Lamb, too albeit not as much

 

 

 

 

I made some comments that, in retrospect, could have been taken as disrespect, to the rivals.com experts when he was ranked well outside their top 100. It took 1 play to see he was not like the other humans. Too often people who evaluate look for things no one else sees, which of course, is just stupid. People like to think evaluating football talent requires a keen eye & phd in concepts, but all you have to do is take the guys who are much better than the others sometimes or the guys who are a bit better all the time. 

 

Round 1: Much better 90+ %

Round 2: Much better 75%

Round 3: Guys morons missed taking bums earlier

Round 4: Guys much better 50% of the snaps & dominated less than 5%

Round 5: Guys who should have gone in 4

Round 6: Guys who are just better snap in & snap out, never dominated, but flash rarely

Round 7 & UDFA: Round 6 left overs & guys who flashed dominance in power 5 of guys who dominated 75+% in a lower division.

 

Guys who look better, are better. Guys who do things 95% can’t see, aren’t actually doing the things the other 5% see.

 

I’m ok with Haskins because so many well respected people, and I sincerely include Steve in the group I have grown to respect greatly, ... they love Haskins. If people liked him, as they do Grier, then I don’t think much about it because of their own lack of conviction. Evaluating evaluators is more valuable than being able to evaluate players yourself, you can’t learn much from yourself... that’s why I watched Grier over & over & over. I trust the guys who like him, & there are a shocking number, or I’d not have watched him a second time through, much less a 3rd.

 

Another thing I notice is some people are just better with a specific group, I can’t evaluate running backs for 🤫 ... it’s truly a humiliation, which is bad news for Darwin Thompson.

 

*Tee Higgins is another WR I love, Ruggs, Rogers, Shenault, Johnson, Black, Wallace ... 

[Master Blaster]

1 hour ago, volsmet said:

 

They’re trying to take our identity. 

 

Dallas took LVE with Sean Lee on the roster already. I think that speed in the middle changes the game in this league, watching Smith chase down DeSean was a thing of beauty, and, at the same time, sickening... because it’s Dallas. 

 

The Dallas duo is far more than just speed. I think both of them are 6’4”+ and 250lbs+

 

Two rare athletes for the position who also are bigger than most. 

[volsmet]

40 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I really want an edge rusher, or one of the Devins in round 1. If we draft a QB we will be handcuffed to this QB who we're selecting at #15 for 3 to 4 years if he busts. 

 

I'm hoping for Rosen and using our high draft pick on defense. That way we have our QBOTF and a luxury defender to make this defense nasty. 

 

Sip pretends not to love Rosen, but he drafted him a year ago... we can grow #TeamRosen into a movement. 

 

 

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If I am going to be tortured with all this Daniel Jones rumor stuff, I figured Volsmet should share some pain too...😀

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, wit33 said:

I see the Skins sitting out on QB in the early rounds. The Keenum trade provides insurance and a “form” of stability at the QB spot for 2019, providing time to let season play out and Alex Smith situation to materialize.

 

If season gets away from them, then a full reset button next off season will take place; New GM, coach, and young QB. 

 

Next years draft includes an embarrassment of QB riches. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Sip pretends not to love Rosen, but he drafted him a year ago... we can grow #TeamRosen into a movement. 

 

 

 

I did.  If I recall at #11 for the Dolphins? 😀  I'll say this watching Haskins, it made me appreciate Rosen a lot more.  For me right now the only Qbs I'd take would be Murray, Lock, Rosen.  Am not really interested in any of the others.  If they have to take a 2nd tier type than Finley would be my guy.   I am also OK with Rypien if need be later in the draft.  I get that some draft geeks love Haskins.  Some don't though.  Like most Qb prospects this year, you don't have an easy consensus. 

 

The main thing that hits me watching Haskins is the dude needs a super supporting cast.  Great O line and receivers who thrive on YAC.  Haskins' type of receiver on this team would have been J. Crowder.  But he's not here anymore.   The dude needs time to throw and weapons more than the typical QB IMO.   I am in the school that in today's NFL you need a QB who has either some mobility or clinical level great footwork where you can dance some in the pocket.  Rosen IMO does have that ability.  Haskins IMO does not.    And heck maybe Haskins becomes a great QB and his fans are right about him.  It wouldn't shock me if he turned out well if he landed with a team with a stacked roster.  But it would really surprise me if he did well if he landed with a team that doesn't have a special supporting cast. 

 

Haskins to me is the poster child of old school pocket QBs.  Drew Bledsoe.  He ran a 5 plus on the combine and he looks it watching him.  I just listened to a podcast that get into whether Haskins keeps himself in good shape and cramped up at the combine.  Apparently, cramps is a sign that you aren't in ideal shape.  Guys like Brady have great feet in the pocket and can move even though their 40 time is slow.  Rosen also isn't a fast dude.  Rosen is faster though than Haskins and his feet and movement in the pocket are miles better IMO than Haskins.  Haskins though has the stronger arm.  

 

I've seen some draft geek types criticize Haskins for his feet and movement in the pocket like I have.  But then I've seen some who praised him on that same count.  I don't see it.  Aside from again the thing about Haskins is you see exceptions in his play to just about every criticism.  That's the weird thing IMO about assessing him.   

 

I just reread the criticism portion of what the scouts told McGinn about Haskins and I find most of it dead on.  so yeah even though I wouldn't want Rosen for a first rounder, I'd still do Rosen for a first rounder before taking Haskins at 15.  

 

He needs to be on a good team like he had at Ohio State. If he has no talent around him you’re talking about a 2-14, 3-13 season. He is not dynamic enough to bring them out of that. He gets a little long and a little high on his throws at times, the deep corners. I worry a little bit about his weight. Obviously, he’s probably in the best shape he’ll ever be in now.” Compounded his bad 40 at the combine by electing not to try again at his pro day. “His stats kind of lie,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s working within the rhythm of that offense he can pick people apart. Makes it easy for him. When he gets pressured and things get in his face he’s not accurate and sprays the ball. He just can’t move his body around well enough in the pocket because he’s slow-footed. That will continue in the NFL. His movements remind me of Jameis Winston. He was an awkward athlete. He sprayed the ball over when he got pressured. Or Byron Leftwich. I just don’t see him as a constant playoff threat, the kind of quarterback you will have to worry about.” Should become the Buckeyes’ first QB taken in the first round since Art Schlichter went No. 4 in 1982. “When you see Dwayne have to throw from an NFL-type pocket, a muddled pocket, he is frantic,” said a fifth scout. “The accuracy changes. When it’s clean, yeah, he’s got a whip. Problem is when there’s inversions from different points. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, they’re exceptional working the pocket. I don’t see that with him. Can he develop it? I don’t know.” From Potomac, Md. Wonderlic of 25. Added a sixth scout: “No quarterback likes to get hit but I really don’t think he likes to get hit. That’s the biggest thing with Dwayne. He rushes the ball out of his hand a lot. Other guys are willing to hold that ball to the last (second) to let that route clear open. He didn’t show the willingness to do that. You can go almost entire games without seeing Dwayne Haskins on the ground.”

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

I don't think Bush will be there.  Everyone is high on him and the NFL is a copycat league.  GB is his floor as they NEED MLB speed.

 

I agree.  It gives me an excuse though to play with permutations based on mock drafts.   And the key point for me is there is all an outlier or two or three that defies the mocks.

 

A. Gone for sure

Nick Bosa

Q. Williams

D. White

K. Murray

J. Oliver

J. Taylor

J. Allen

 

B.  Likely Gone

D. Haskins

D. Lock

R. Gary

D. Bush

TJ Hockenson

M. Sweat

J. Williams

 

C.  Possibly (15 are below in some mocks but not in most)

Marquise Brown

Noah Fant

B. Burns

A. Dillard

C. Ferrell

D. Jones

G. Williams

C. Wilkins

D. Lawrence

 

If the draft went the way the typical mock goes then the draft will likely go with players from group A and B and then we'd pick from Group C.  If so that's good, I'd take Brian Burns.  But the draft always has some shake your head move that you don't see coming.  Even now, we hear rumors of Dillard going top 15, Daniel Jones, C. Wilkins  might go before 15, etc.   So something is likely going to go down this draft, too where we see a dude that is just about always mocked before our pick fall to 15.