2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[mhd24]

Sweat is just an enigma right now due to the medical.  If the skins pass, then that's the reason.  I'm getting more and more confused as draft day approaches.  I'm pretty sure Oliver won't be there at 15.  There is too much smoke out there that ATL and the Bills like him.  I could see ATL trading up to get him ahead of the Bills (with Detroit moving back).  

[757SeanTaylor21]

Now that i made my draft pick in the mock draft....a cb by the name of deon harris from north dakota state....was a projected 2nd-3rd pick but tore his achilles...decided to stay in school. This guy is huge, long, enough speed and to me is a richard sherman clone. Look him up. He would be a great get in the later ends of the draft. Him in round 5-6 is a tremendous get with loads of potential as he continues to grt fully recovered from his injury.

[Anselmheifer]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for Burns, I respectfully disagree on the just ok production.   10 sacks, 15.5 TFL.  3 FF two years in a row.  66 pressures.  46 QB hurries.  His production was excellent IMO.

 

 

Maybe you are right. The super lean long pass rushers without a power move just make me nervous. Burns does demonstrate a bit of a counter, although it's not a huge part of his staple. 

 

When I talked about production, what I mean is that there is, in my mind, a significant difference between a collegiate speed rusher who collects 10 sacks, and one that collects 15. Those super productive pass rushers usually aren't winning just on speed. They have speed and hands and counters and speed to power and are easier to project to the pro's, IMHO. 

I did find it interesting that sackseer liked Burns more than Allen, Sweat, and even Bosa. I think they projected him at 26.5 sacks over 5 years. I don't know how accurate they have een with their projecitons, but they seem to lean conservative in their projections of sack output. 

[LD0506]

The offense is a dumpster fire, Guice is about the only bright side I see this year. IMO odds are that Jay is gone after a 5-11 season, and a new coach will want his own staff, own offense, probably his own new QB, so I'm not sure I'd use #15 on any player for that side of the ball. Target the best LB or FS there is, need some speed and smarts there, keep rebuilding the D into a unit that can flat out stun and stop opposing teams. 

[Anselmheifer]

12 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

The offense is a dumpster fire, Guice is about the only bright side I see this year. IMO odds are that Jay is gone after a 5-11 season, and a new coach will want his own staff, own offense, probably his own new QB, so I'm not sure I'd use #15 on any player for that side of the ball. Target the best LB or FS there is, need some speed and smarts there, keep rebuilding the D into a unit that can flat out stun and stop opposing teams. 

 

This logic is terrible. Maybe, and I disagree with this premise, you could argue that if you are going to fire your coach, you let the next coach pick his QB. Ton's of coaches don't get to pick their QB however. Baker Mayfield. Jared Goff, etc. It happens all of the time. 

To contend however that the offense is bad and that we shouldn't draft receivers, TE's, and OL, makes absolutely no sense at all. 

To be clear, I'm not against drafting defense. I just want us to take great players. 

[volsmet]

 

 

[volsmet]

31 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

This logic is terrible. Maybe, and I disagree with this premise, you could argue that if you are going to fire your coach, you let the next coach pick his QB. Ton's of coaches don't get to pick their QB however. Baker Mayfield. Jared Goff, etc. It happens all of the time. 

To contend however that the offense is bad and that we shouldn't draft receivers, TE's, and OL, makes absolutely no sense at all. 

To be clear, I'm not against drafting defense. I just want us to take great players. 

 

Ld0505 Syllogism:

Major Premise:
Our only hope is Guice

Minor Premise:
Guice has zero nfl carries 

Conclusion:

55 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

The offense is a dumpster fire, Guice is about the only bright side I see this year. IMO odds are that Jay is gone after a 5-11 season, and a new coach will want his own staff, own offense, probably his own new QB, so I'm not sure I'd use #15 on any player for that side of the ball. Target the best LB or FS there is, need some speed and smarts there, keep rebuilding the D into a unit that can flat out stun and stop opposing teams. 

 

If we can’t get first downs, that defense will end up on the ir. We may need to run the Delaware wing-t. Keep it east coast.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

McGinn talking to scouts on some of the Qbs we've been discussing.  On Haskins you can see they are all over the place.  On Grier, yeah as I was commenting the other day, Ryan Fitzpatrick to me.  Really streaky.  Can they reigned that in?  Got no idea.  But if they aren't giving up a first and Jay wants him, I'd go for the ride without complaining.  Though Finley remains my favorite of the 2nd tier type QBs.

 

DWAYNE HASKINS, Ohio State (6-3 ½, 229, 5.02, 1): “He threw 50 touchdown passes and they run the ball there,” one scout said. “He is a really good pocket passer that can also roll out and throw on the move. He’s not a runner. Being a black guy people think he’s going to be an athlete-runner. He’s not, but he has good feet. He’s far from a statue. The guy can throw the ball. Holy hell. Big-time arm. Accurate. He’s just not ready to be an NFL starter.” Turns 22 a week after the draft. Played eight games off the bench in 2017, igniting a comeback victory at Michigan in relief of injured J.T. Barrett, and started 14 games in ’18. Third-year sophomore bypassed his final two seasons. “He reminded me of Steve McNair (6-1 1/2, 225), and it wasn’t because McNair was black,” another scout said. “He didn’t have great speed, either, but he knew how to move around in the pocket. Haskins is a pocket guy. He’s exactly what you want in the National Football League. Some day, (Patrick) Mahomes is going to get hurt. Deshaun Watson is always hurt. RGIII got hurt. This guy is special.” Passer rating of 123.2 in 2018. “If he’s at his best he’s a bottom-15 QB in the NFL,” a third scout said.

 

“Franchise quarterbacks make everybody better. He’s not that guy. He needs to be on a good team like he had at Ohio State. If he has no talent around him you’re talking about a 2-14, 3-13 season. He is not dynamic enough to bring them out of that. He gets a little long and a little high on his throws at times, the deep corners. I worry a little bit about his weight. Obviously, he’s probably in the best shape he’ll ever be in now.” Compounded his bad 40 at the combine by electing not to try again at his pro day. “His stats kind of lie,” said a fourth scout. “When he’s working within the rhythm of that offense he can pick people apart. Makes it easy for him. When he gets pressured and things get in his face he’s not accurate and sprays the ball. He just can’t move his body around well enough in the pocket because he’s slow-footed. That will continue in the NFL. His movements remind me of Jameis Winston. He was an awkward athlete. He sprayed the ball over when he got pressured. Or Byron Leftwich. I just don’t see him as a constant playoff threat, the kind of quarterback you will have to worry about.” Should become the Buckeyes’ first QB taken in the first round since Art Schlichter went No. 4 in 1982. “When you see Dwayne have to throw from an NFL-type pocket, a muddled pocket, he is frantic,” said a fifth scout. “The accuracy changes. When it’s clean, yeah, he’s got a whip. Problem is when there’s inversions from different points. Tom Brady, Drew Brees, they’re exceptional working the pocket. I don’t see that with him. Can he develop it? I don’t know.” From Potomac, Md. Wonderlic of 25. Added a sixth scout: “No quarterback likes to get hit but I really don’t think he likes to get hit. That’s the biggest thing with Dwayne. He rushes the ball out of his hand a lot. Other guys are willing to hold that ball to the last (second) to let that route clear open. He didn’t show the willingness to do that. You can go almost entire games without seeing Dwayne Haskins on the ground.”

 

WILL GRIER, West Virginia (6-2 ½, 217, 4.84, 4-5): Suspended for a year by the NCAA (performance-enhancing drugs) in mid-2015 five games into his first starting season at Florida. Transferred to West Virginia, where he started 22 games in 2017-‘18. “You like his moxie and gunslinger mode,” one scout said. “Lot of production in that system. Quick release, good accuracy. He flashes.” His father was his high-school coach in Charlotte, N.C. “Prepares and trains like a pro,” a second scout said. “Team’s first. Physically and mentally tough.” Married, has a daughter who was born in 2016. “I’m not sold on him,” a third scout said. “Long delivery. He doesn’t have a quick arm. It’s not a great arm … I’ve seen a couple games where I wouldn’t even take him. He’s fumbled the ball, thrown interceptions, reckless with the ball. And I’ve seen him where he’s just lights out for five, six touchdowns a game. He’s too inconsistent for me. He can be a bust.” Finished with a passer rating of 113.0. “If you go 7 on 7 Will Grier’s your guy,” a fourth scout said. “After that, any kind of pressure he just falls apart. Very streaky. Can’t pull himself out of bad situations.” Wonderlic of 30. 

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

If we can’t get first downs, that defense will end up on the ir. We may need to run the Delaware wing-t. Keep it east coast.

 

 

I agree. A big part of the problem with our defense was our offense. It's a miracle we got as many sacks as we did with the team never playing with a lead and essentially unable to score.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's funny I noticed the Giant reporters are aware that many within their fan base are apprehensive about them taking Daniel Jones.  Clearly the same within our fan base.  Both sides have many fans judging by twitter rooting for the other NFC East team to wind up with Jones.  

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

Maybe you are right. The super lean long pass rushers without a power move just make me nervous. Burns does demonstrate a bit of a counter, although it's not a huge part of his staple. 

 

When I talked about production, what I mean is that there is, in my mind, a significant difference between a collegiate speed rusher who collects 10 sacks, and one that collects 15. Those super productive pass rushers usually aren't winning just on speed. They have speed and hands and counters and speed to power and are easier to project to the pro's, IMHO. 

I did find it interesting that sackseer liked Burns more than Allen, Sweat, and even Bosa. I think they projected him at 26.5 sacks over 5 years. I don't know how accurate they have een with their projecitons, but they seem to lean conservative in their projections of sack output. 

 

Von Miller had 10 sacks his last year in college.  Vic Beasley 9.  So 10 is still good.  But beyond that the fact that he was 2nd in pressures after Josh Allen, along with 16 tackles for losses, 3 forced fumbled, 3 blocked kicks, battled down passes, etc. -- he made a lot of plays.  

 

He has some moves beyond his quick first step.  Good spin move, rip move as an example.  Some say even though sweat for example is faster than Burns -- Burns has looser hips, better bend and can change direction easier.  I like Sweat too especially because he can stop the run.

 

Burns I do think has some boom bust to his play but I think more boon where its not that risk.  I just like that added dimension to the defense.  When was the last speed rush we had that was really good?  Chris Clemons?  They didn't use Clemons much here.  But he had three 11 plus sack years in a row in Seattle.  

 

We got a lot of power in the pass rush but little speed.  I think Burns would help the interior rush more so than another power guy in particularly on third down.  You might force the LT to play wider along with the TE to help chip.  That might help open the lane a bit more for the interior.   

 

I disagree with the Matthews comp below but agree with the superlatives.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

Every advanced metric out there suggests Jones will be a bust.

 

So some team will take him in the 1st round. Because when it comes to QBs, GMs go full moron.

[Anselmheifer]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Von Miller had 10 sacks his last year in college.  Vic Beasley 9.  So 10 is still good.  But beyond that the fact that he was 2nd in pressures after Josh Allen, along with 16 tackles for losses, 3 forced fumbled, 3 blocked kicks, battled down passes, etc. -- he made a lot of plays.  

 

He has some moves beyond his quick first step.  Good spin move, rip move as an example.  Some say even though sweat for example is faster than Burns -- Burns has looser hips, better bend and can change direction easier.  I like Sweat too especially because he can stop the run.

 

 

I hear you, and I like Burns, but both Beasley's and Miller's best single season was better. Burns 10 sacks with 15.5 TFL. Beasley 13 sacks with 22.5 TFL. Miller 17 sacks with 21.5 TFL. The difference is that we are talking about Burns at 15, not in the top 5. 

Regarding Burns vs. Sweat, throw out the combine numbers. Burns is faster. He's faster off the ball. He is faster in pursuit. He just plays faster, and in my opinion, a lot faster. That's without even considering his much better flexibility. Sweat is more powerful and longer, and has more bulk, but he is slower and stiffer. 

[volsmet]

Sweat had a higher pressure % than Burns. I need Montez in DC.

[volsmet]

20 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I hear you, and I like Burns, but both Beasley's and Miller's best single season was better. Burns 10 sacks with 15.5 TFL. Beasley 13 sacks with 22.5 TFL. Miller 17 sacks with 21.5 TFL. The difference is that we are talking about Burns at 15, not in the top 5. 

Regarding Burns vs. Sweat, throw out the combine numbers. Burns is faster. He's faster off the ball. He is faster in pursuit. He just plays faster, and in my opinion, a lot faster. That's without even considering his much better flexibility. Sweat is more powerful and longer, and has more bulk, but he is slower and stiffer. 

 

In testing, Sweat is bigger, faster, stronger, more sudden, just as agile, & longer — he also has the superior pressure %, but Burns is younger & he definitely looks more fluid.

 

Love this youngster.

 

 

 

[oraphus]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/19/keeping-tabs-on-the-fifth-year-options-for-2016-first-round-draft-picks/

for those clamoring for a WR in rd1.. Interesting to see that out of the 2016 draft, almost all 1st rounders got their 5th year option picked up. Out of the 4 WRs drafted in the first (including Doctson) only Fuller 'might' get his 5th year option picked up... meaning the rest are busts as far as 1st round wrs go.

[Anselmheifer]

26 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

In testing, Sweat is bigger, faster, stronger, more sudden, just as agile, & longer — he also has the superior pressure %, but Burns is younger & he definitely looks more fluid.

 

Love this youngster.

 

I like Sweat too. He doesn't play faster than Burns. He looks slower off the ball. His short area quickness isn't as good. His pursuit isn't as good. Some people play faster than they test and vice versa. I'd honestly be fine with any of the pass rushers, but I'm not sure any would be my favorite at that slot. I wonder if there is any chance that Sweat's issue drops him to the 2nd round. 

 

I'm not sure who I think will be better between Sweat and Burns and Ferrell. I worry a little about all of them for different reasons. I like Burns because he brings something different to our defense. We lack a speed rusher and we lack team speed in general. 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I hear you, and I like Burns, but both Beasley's and Miller's best single season was better. Burns 10 sacks with 15.5 TFL. Beasley 13 sacks with 22.5 TFL. Miller 17 sacks with 21.5 TFL. The difference is that we are talking about Burns at 15, not in the top 5. 

Regarding Burns vs. Sweat, throw out the combine numbers. Burns is faster. He's faster off the ball. He is faster in pursuit. He just plays faster, and in my opinion, a lot faster. That's without even considering his much better flexibility. Sweat is more powerful and longer, and has more bulk, but he is slower and stiffer. 

 

Burns I think is twitchier and can bend IMO better than Sweat.  As a pure pass rusher I prefer Burns.   But I like Sweat's skill set as for being a well rounded player who can also stop the run -- with his insane long arms and speed he's a freak. 

[volsmet]

2 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I like Sweat too. He doesn't play faster than Burns. He looks slower off the ball. His short area quickness isn't as good. His pursuit isn't as good. Some people play faster than they test and vice versa. I'd honestly be fine with any of the pass rushers, but I'm not sure any would be my favorite at that slot. I wonder if there is any chance that Sweat's issue drops him to the 2nd round. 

 

I'm not sure who I think will be better between Sweat and Burns and Ferrell. I worry a little about all of them for different reasons. I like Burns because he brings something different to our defense. We lack a speed rusher and we lack team speed in general. 

 

Agreed on all counts, particularly the need for explosive athletes. I thought Sweat looked absurdly explosive in the sr bowl, I didn’t watch a ton more, I imagine the sr bowl was not what was always on display at msu or he’d have had 18 sacks.

 

The pressure % being higher for Sweat surprised me a bit, but Burns looks like he gives up on plays that he wouldn’t if he was 23 rather than 21 & that could create a fairly significant difference for him.

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Burns I think is twitchier and can bend IMO better than Sweat.  As a pure pass rusher I prefer Burns.   But I like Sweat's skill set as for being a well rounded player who can also stop the run -- with his insane long arms and speed he's a freak. 

 

Sweats 3 cone & short shuttle show promise of more, it’s not easy to get 6-6 260 touching the ground and back in 7 seconds. Burns has the twitch, undeniably... he looks formula 1 to Sweats NASCAR; I’ve never watched a race in my life, but that’s the analogy that seems most fitting.

 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, nonniey said:

One always has to take the team situation into account. What do you assume the Redskins results are going to be this year? What actions would occur if the expected results occur. 

 

Let's go with national consensus (Smarter than going with Redskin fan consensus).

 

Assumption is Redskins will be in the bottom 5 teams in the league.

Leads to Assumption #2 if Redskins are in the bottom 5 teams a new Coach will be hired.

 

So do you want expend significant draft capital on a QB now when a new coach may want his own QB next year?  

A smart owner would under no circumstances allow the FO  to use a 1st round pick on a QB this year.

 

Are we going to draft Haskins this year and hope we can get better than a 3rd rounder next year for him when the new Coach expresses his love for Tua? Herbert? Fromm? ect.?

 

Excellent point, and about the 100th reason why Snyder should have fired the F.O. after this year. Coaching staff is a bit harder of a decision. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong w/Jay Gruden anywhere near the scale w/whats wrong w/the F.O. I think he's shown if you give him enough tools he can at least be league average but our F.O. has given him a dog poo D, and when they finally improved it, they got rid of his QB. 

 

Not a lot of point in drafting a QB w/a F.O. in the, "getting the blindfold put on," mode of a firing squad situation. Damn good point you made. 

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Excellent point, and about the 100th reason why Snyder should have fired the F.O. after this year. Coaching staff is a bit harder of a decision. I don't think there's anything particularly wrong w/Jay Gruden anywhere near the scale w/whats wrong w/the F.O. I think he's shown if you give him enough tools he can at least be league average but our F.O. has given him a dog poo D, and when they finally improved it, they got rid of his QB. 

 

Not a lot of point in drafting a QB w/a F.O. in the, "getting the blindfold put on," mode of a firing squad situation. Damn good point you made. 

 

The fact that we rarely start quickly offensively & never score on our opening possession of the 3rd lead me to believe Jay is something less than ordinary. It’s not easy to be as incompetent as we’ve been to open every 2nd half since McVay left.

 

[Otis Wonsley Posse]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:37 PM, volsmet said:

BRETT RYPIENQB, BOISE STATE BRONCOS

Boise State QB Brett Rypien led college football in Pro Football Focus' big-time throws metric.

Rypien (6'2/212) made 33 of them in 2018, which was also his best season according to PFF's grading system. One reason why he had a lot of big plays is his ability to play inside the pocket against pressure. Rypien finished 12th in the country in passer rating when pressure while finishing 21st in a clean pocket. Despite the solid numbers, Rypien currently sits on the Day 2/3 borderline as a likely backup quarterback.

SOURCE: PFF College on Twitter

 

You just know he would excel with the Skins

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

 

The fact that we rarely start quickly offensively & never score on our opening possession of the 3rd lead me to believe Jay is something less than ordinary. It’s not easy to be as incompetent as we’ve been to open every 2nd half since McVay left.

 

 

I'm hoping our new offensive coordinator will have more input.  I'm with you on Jay as far as play calling and adjustments.

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

13 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26491692/three-round-2019-nfl-mock-draft-kiper-mcshay-go-head-head

Kiper has us taking:

(1)Marquise Brown

(2)Chase Winnovich

(3)Lonnie Johnson

(3)Will Grier

 

 

 

 

Why in the world would they waste a 3rd round pick on the guy that invented the Super Soaker?  Dude has almost zero lateral movement. Kiper is terrible!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lonnie_Johnson_(inventor)

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

14 hours ago, kingdaddy said:

Lets just take Ford and be happy with an offensive line that can make Guice a pro bowler. This is where the Hogs were born, let's build the O-line.

Via trade down? I don't mind doing that, though it isn't my #1 priority.