2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[PartyPosse]

Until something happens then rumors are all smokescreens.

[RWJ]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Cooley on Grier. He said he likes him. But he prefers Lock.

 

He is NFL ready as for his prep. WV ran a ton of NFL concepts according to him. He is really good presnap.  Sees the field well.  Throws well on the move but not always.  Good pocket prescense. Is fairly accurate. Sees blitz well. Throws well with anticpation.  Sees and understands zone coverage and exploits it well.  Overcomes adversity well.

 

He's a gun slinger and can tell he is a smart Qb.  He has met him and likes his personality -moxie-confidence.

 

The negatives: he looked like crap at UF so he had to evolve into what he is today. He didn't always have it so to speak.

 

He is a decent athlete but not a great one. His arm strength isn't hot. He has an elongated delivery which is a bit odd looking and hurts his ability to put mustard on the ball. 

 

Fumbles in bad situations. He is too careless under pressure. Throws too many balls behind receivers especially to his left.  Doesnt throw well off his back foot. Way too stuck on downfield progressions before checking down.

 

Overall, he sees him as good value in the third round. He goes there is something about that makes him like him but there is too much risk to take him high in the draft.

 

Grier takes a lot of careless sacks when he could just throw the ball out of bounds.  I watched most all of his games.  I live in WV.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Grier takes a lot of careless sacks when he could just throw the ball out of bounds.  I watched most all of his games.  I live in WV.

 

Yeah I've commented on it some myself on this thread months back. On that point, I've watched my share of Grier. He seems to overestimate his athleticism and gets caught as he scrambles or just holds on to the ball too long.

 

I noticed Cooley is big on a Qb's tendency to quickly go through progressions and check down as opposed to sticking too long on a read down the field.  He thinks that's going to get you sacked too often in the NFL, will lead to picks and its tougher to get away with it than it is in college.

 

It's part of the reason why Cooley thinks Rosen is a project and a third rounder. Ironically likewise it's one of the the things he hangs on Grier too and also considers him a 3rd rounder.

 

But like Cooley there is something I like about Grier too so I wouldn't mind him as a flier.

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I've commented on it some myself on this thread months back. On that point, I've watched my share of Grier. He seems to overestimate his athleticism and gets caught as he scrambles or just holds on to the ball too long.

 

I noticed Cooley is big on a Qb's tendency to quickly go through progressions and check down as opposed to sticking too long on a read down the field.  He thinks that's going to get you sacked too often in the NFL, will lead to picks and its tougher to get away with it than it is in college.

 

It's part of the reason why Cooley thinks Rosen is a project and a third rounder. Ironically likewise it's one of the the things he hangs on Grier too and also considers him a 3rd rounder.

 

But like Cooley there is something I like about Grier too so I wouldn't mind him as a flier.

 

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

  

Don't worry about it man, just tell @volsmetthat you punched Will Grier in the face today and ran over his cat with your car and he'll immediately be your BFF. 

 

@volsmet is a good poster.  He is hard-nosed and a strong-taker and I like that about him.  Reminds me of the old days in here, when we were insulting and had wars over takes but we kept it contained to the thread and the mods wouldn't really turn over our rock.

[mistertim]

I'd take Grier in the 2nd or 3rd. I think he'll be long gone by the 3rd though. After his pro day apparently his stock may be rising (but from some things I've read most NFL GMs/scouts aren't as down on Grier as many draftniks are but who knows) with some people seeing him possibly inching into the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd.

 

The scouting in this QB class just seems to be so all over the place. To be honest, any scout who watches Daniel Jones and Will Grier and says Jones is a 1st rounder and Grier is a 3rd rounder is someone I'd likely ignore. I really just don't get how so many people rate Jones so highly. Yes, Grier absolutely has some negative traits but at least he also has some excellent traits as well. Jones doesn't seem to have either...he's just, sort of there. Basically a big Andy Dalton or Ryan Tannehill. 

 

4 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

@volsmet is a good poster.  He is hard-nosed and a strong-taker and I like that about him.  Reminds me of the old days in here, when we were insulting and had wars over takes but we kept it contained to the thread and the mods wouldn't really turn over our rock.

 

Never said he was a bad poster, just having some fun with his outspoken dislike of Grier as a QB.

[ToaCommander]

All this trade up talk is crazy. Trade up for Haskins, trade up for Murray, trade up for for a WR???

 

We should only trade up for a sure fire QB in the mold of Luck otherwise stay the course and save those picks. Haskins and Murray are no where near Luck and trading up to 3 or 4 will require high picks, which we could seriously use to address our other weak areas. I think at the end of the Day, Haskins or Lock could fall to 15 given the brilliant combine and pros days of the other positions DEs, DTs, WRs and LBs and DBs. 

 

Given our recent track record I know they won't waste picks by getting desperate for QB but with all these rumours swirling, you never know.

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

How the hell could we possibly trade to the #4 spot before the draft and assume we'd still get the QB we wanted? There's nothing stopping a team from jumping up to #2 or #3. That makes no sense. Unless we have the basic structure of a deal in place but it only goes through if our guy falls to 4 (assuming Haskins here). 

Thats funny, because the first thing I thought when I saw that was that I could totally see Bruce trading up to 4 like a week before the draft and then, on draft night, the Giants trade up to 3 to take the guy we wanted. 

 

Not that I take the tweet at face value anyway. But I kind of chuckled because I thought the same thing you did.

[Going Commando]

If we can't trade up for Haskins, then I want to wait on QB until either #222 or #253 and scoop up my boy Big Hands Minshew.

 

I'm telling you all that guy is going to find a way to hang onto an NFL roster spot.  Put him on this team with our garbage QBs and he can definitely work his way up the depth chart.

[bowhunter]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

I'd take Grier in the 2nd or 3rd. I think he'll be long gone by the 3rd though. After his pro day apparently his stock may be rising (but from some things I've read most NFL GMs/scouts aren't as down on Grier as many draftniks are but who knows) with some people seeing him possibly inching into the bottom of the 1st or top of the 2nd.

 

 

I think Grier will be a good NFL QB and I'd take him in the late FIRST as I doubt he'll be there at our 2nd round pick. In my order of preference:

1) Murray  (Can't afford)

2) Lock (but no way he drops to #15 and I don't want to lose picks)

3) Rosen (For a 3rd this year and next)

4) Grier (I'd consider at 15 but he might drop to late 1st)

5) Haskins (value says good at 15 although I like Grier better)

 

I cannot promise to defend the order as listed, some of it is just my gut and the type of player I like to see leading my team. (Although I did rank Rosen higher than some even though I think he looks like a Eli douche and I probably is one)

[Skin'emAlive]

I would draft Big Hands Minshew and his wonderstache regardless of his position, and solely on his nickname. That’s almost up there in Psycho-T territory. 

 

But you cant go into this season with the only QB you draft coming at #222/253. That’s banking on finishing bottoms 3 this year, and case is gonna 8-8 the team barring the annual IR parade. Round 2/3 is our best option at qb, and god help us if we trade the farm to move up, or inexplicably end up with Daniel Jones. 

[skinny21]

45 minutes ago, Skin'emAlive said:

I would draft Big Hands Minshew and his wonderstache regardless of his position, and solely on his nickname. That’s almost up there in Psycho-T territory. 

 

But you cant go into this season with the only QB you draft coming at #222/253. That’s banking on finishing bottoms 3 this year, and case is gonna 8-8 the team barring the annual IR parade. Round 2/3 is our best option at qb, and god help us if we trade the farm to move up, or inexplicably end up with Daniel Jones. 

I wonder about the bold part.  On one hand, considering who we have now, grabbing a guy to develop - even if it’s just with the hope he becomes our #2 next year - is probably a good idea.  On the other hand, yeah, with Case/McCoy leading the charge, we’re probably looking at .500ish again and an uphill battle to get a top qb next year.  

Personally, I like the idea of trading back in the 1st and trying to land a 1st next year.  Given the ‘win-now’ mentality, I think a compromise of trading back for a 2nd next year and a 3rd or 4th this year makes sense.  More ammo for a qb next year, but we also add a pick in a deep draft class.  

 

My assumption is Allen instead winds up giving up too much for Rosen this year.  Somewhat ironically, Snyder could be the one to prevent this (by getting Cooley’s input for instance).  Of course, Snyder might go big for Haskins instead, lol.  God I wish we had a patient, smart GM in charge.  

[Anselmheifer]

I think grabbing a guy to develop is usually a waste of draft resources. How often does a QB pan out in the 3rd round or later. Not often. This draft is going to be thick with talent in the middle rounds. Grab a guy that's worth a 1st or do it next year, IMHO. 

[Skin'emAlive]

The last qb we drafted in the 4th* round ended up A franchise player. 

[Ghedrick]

If we cannot land Kylar don't bother trading up. Haskins has bust written all over him mark it down.He is  a Leftwich clone.Who would trade multiple picks for Leftwich or take him the in first.Haskins is second or third round talent.I know Bruce is an idiot but he can't be this dumb.

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think grabbing a guy to develop is usually a waste of draft resources. How often does a QB pan out in the 3rd round or later. Not often. This draft is going to be thick with talent in the middle rounds. Grab a guy that's worth a 1st or do it next year, IMHO. 

 

Hell, you could make the cutoff the end of the first round and get the same basic results. It's rare for any non first round QB to amount to anything more than a back-up. You don't pick a guy in the 3rd hoping to find a starter. You're hoping for a back-up at best and basically buying a lottery ticket you find then next Kirk Cousins. It's not impossible, but pretty unlikely. You can look at the last 7 picks in the 3rd rounder over the last several years: 2018 - Mason Rudolph (too early to say anything), 2017 - Davis Webb (bust) ,C.J. Beathard (not terrible, but he's never going to displace Garoppolo), 2016 - Jacoby Brissett (a competent enough back-up, but nothing more), Cody Kessler (bust), 2015 - Garrett Grayson (bust), Sean Mannion (he's on an NFL roster, which is something. But he's also proven zilch in his career). You have to go all the way back to 2012 and Russell Wilson to find a bona fide starter. And unless you want to count Nick Foles (debatable) you have to go back to 2004 and Matt Schaub to find another starter. 

 

 

I think every once in a while you have to punch your lottery ticket and take a chance, but I wouldn't expect much. People who think Grier or Lock or Daniel Jones will be starters in this league are likely to be disappointed, unless by starter you mean Blake Bortles. Someone who technically starts, but isn't good. I doubt any of the above guys even ends up as a good as Ryan Tannehill. And while Tannehill isn't terrible, he's also not a guy you really build around or want to be your long-term starter. Every once in a while you have to take a shot on one of these guys, but you don't use a first rounder on them. it's far too low of a percentage play.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think grabbing a guy to develop is usually a waste of draft resources. How often does a QB pan out in the 3rd round or later. Not often. This draft is going to be thick with talent in the middle rounds. Grab a guy that's worth a 1st or do it next year, IMHO. 

Well, what do you mean by ‘pan out’? We could use a younger qb as a backup - like Cousins, Sudfeld, Chase Daniels, etc. - guy you aren’t paying millions to, particularly with McCoy and Keenum not likely being here next year.  Assuming you’re talking about turning into a franchise (or even just an average) qb, sure, it’s pretty rare.  

 

I do agree though that this is a deep draft - I love the talent through the 5th or so - so I think they should only take a qb before then if they really, really like him (ie think he could possibly become a good starter).  Personally, I’d consider Grier and Stidham in the 3rd, and Thorson, Minishew and Ta’amu in the 5th+.  

 

Woah there @Jericho... you’re not gonna count Cousins?

[method man]

If we don't get Lock, the next best thing is waiting until Day 3 to get a QB. As others have pointed out, we have a lot of needs and I wouldn't want to pass up a guy in round 3 who has a decent chance of becoming a starting WR like a Parris Campbell or a Terry McLaurin. 

 

Take whoever is left of Tyree Jackson, Stidham, Thorson or Minshew

[Chump Bailey]

If anyone is interested in participating in the ES Mock Draft we currently need 5 GM's. We kick off Friday at 12 EST. 

 

 

As far as QB's go, If you're looking in the later rounds Brett Rypien is someone to take a gander at IMO. 

[Wyndorf25]

On 3/25/2019 at 8:36 AM, Anselmheifer said:

How about, Patriots trade up to 15 to take Hockenson? 

 

Hockenson won't be there at 15...and if he is, the Redskins had better draft him!

[bakedtater1]

One dude has us pegged to take Metcalf..that would be amazing!..he seems to be an athletic freak

[PlayAction]

13 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think grabbing a guy to develop is usually a waste of draft resources. How often does a QB pan out in the 3rd round or later. Not often. This draft is going to be thick with talent in the middle rounds. Grab a guy that's worth a 1st or do it next year, IMHO. 

 

A waste if you expect him to become a franchise QB.  Not a waste if you just need a QB to fill in if your starter is out for a game.  Without 2 backups the team gets stuck with the butt-fumbler and others that are the equivalent of bingo callers.   Smith will be on IR next season so they can devote a roster spot to a 3rd QB.  The Skins had it right with Nate Sundfeld (6th round pick) but left him on the practice squad.  So instead of paying 630k for the backup the Skins are paying in the $5million range.  

[bakedtater1]

Serious question for all the gurus... What would it take to move to the number three spot?

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

One dude has us pegged to take Metcalf..that would be amazing!..he seems to be an athletic freak

 

I'm very likely in the minority here but to me Metcalf has potential bust written all over him. Or at least bust compared to where he'll likely be drafted. The guy is an athletic freak and looks like a pro bodybuilder but his athletic freakishness is really limited to initial burst and straight line speed. I remember watching his cutups and noticing how sloppy he was in and out of his breaks and how he had very little suddenness when planting and cutting.

 

I just figured it was a technique thing or a laziness thing since he was such a better athlete than the DBs he was going against, but then I saw his 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle results and I now think that his route running issues are a feature, not a bug. His 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle (which are good measurements of change of direction, cutting, footwork, etc) were not just "meh" or even "bad", they were abysmal. To put it into perspective, most of this year's QBs had better times than him in those drills.

 

I think Metcalf will be a guy you can tell to beat press coverage, run down the field really fast in a straight line, and get a jump ball but if you want him to be a complete elite receiver which in the NFL means a great route runner you're probably in for disappointment. 

[bakedtater1]

5 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I'm very likely in the minority here but to me Metcalf has potential bust written all over him. Or at least bust compared to where he'll likely be drafted. The guy is an athletic freak and looks like a pro bodybuilder but his athletic freakishness is really limited to initial burst and straight line speed. I remember watching his cutups and noticing how sloppy he was in and out of his breaks and how he had very little suddenness when planting and cutting.

 

I just figured it was a technique thing or a laziness thing since he was such a better athlete than the DBs he was going against, but then I saw his 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle results and I now think that his route running issues are a feature, not a bug. His 3 cone and 20 yard shuttle (which are good measurements of change of direction, cutting, footwork, etc) were not just "meh" or even "bad", they were abysmal. To put it into perspective, most of this year's QBs had better times than him in those drills.

 

I think Metcalf will be a guy you can tell to beat press coverage, run down the field really fast in a straight line, and get a jump ball but if you want him to be a complete elite receiver which in the NFL means a great route runner you're probably in for disappointment. 

I appreciate that... that would suck for the skins to draft him and it back fire on em.