2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Jericho]

Haskins and Murray are the only real first round QBs here. Everyone else is a second round talent or worse. Doesn't mean someone doesn't reach for one of the other QBs. It happens all the time. In fact, it happens fairly often. But the vast majority of reaches end up busts. So I very much hope the team doesn't go that route as it's a low percentage play. Even Haskins and Murray carry decent risk. Both were just one year starters, which is one of the biggest common factors in QB busts. Doesn't mean Murray or Haskins will bust, but the risk is just higher. Plus Murray has the size concerns. So given all that, these aren't QBs I'd break the bank for. That's a desperation move. Suggestion of trading up to 3rd overall to pick a risky QB that's generally considered a worst prospect than Josh Rosen (who went 10th last year) seems foolish. If the QBs fall and you want to take them, so be it. Maybe, just maybe you try and leap frog Miami on draft day if a guy falls. Otherwise, I think you just take BPA.

[Anselmheifer]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

I almost cannot think of a prospect more unlike RG3 than Haskins; the only thing they have in common is being black. RG3 was a dual threat QB who's strengths were his ability to run, big arm, and deep accuracy. His weaknesses were reading defenses, pocket passing, going through progressions. Haskins is basically the opposite...he's not a threat to run, has a decent but not great arm, and is much more of a short/intermediate passer with a mediocre at best deep ball. However, he's good at pocket passing, reading defenses, and going through full progressions. 

 

Though both have very mediocre footwork IMO. 

Haskins is not mobile, just as you said, but he has a big arm. I think his arm is better than RG3's. RG3's arm was no better than Cousins' per the WR's on the team. I also think Haskins has a nice deep ball. You're probably right about his footwork not being ideal. Didn't see this posted. I'll be curious to watch will Grier's pro day throws. 

 

 

SIP et all, I would love Devin White at 15, but I can't imagine him falling. I really don't want us to take Devin Bush. I don't think the instincts or production are there. Hockenson would be great at 15. I'm not sure he'll be available. Maybe the lack of top end speed drops him just enough. I'm fine with Brian Burns at that pick as well. 

Regarding my previous posts about the importance of a QB and QB being worth more than two firsts and Payne and Scherff, that doesn't mean that I think this is the ideal year to move up for a bunch of picks. I am honestly not sure that I like Tua/Fromm/Herbert better than Haskins/Murray and I don't like any of them as much as Lawrence. That being said, this is a really, really good year to stack up at TE and WR. 

Hockenson at 15, Hakim Butler in the second, and Andy Isabella in the 3rd would give us a really good core of skill position players. Next year we could trade up for a QB and still have foundational pieces on offense and defense when he arrives. 

 

I also really like the idea of Jachai Polite if he gets to the 3rd. I think there is a solid chance he falls. Of course, like WR, we have seen some physically talented head cases fall out of the league, or just not produce, as pass rushers. Randy Gregory. Noah Spence. Maybe there is more risk to Polite than justifies a 3rd rounder?

[MartinC]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

I almost cannot think of a prospect more unlike RG3 than Haskins; the only thing they have in common is being black. RG3 was a dual threat QB who's strengths were his ability to run, big arm, and deep accuracy. His weaknesses were reading defenses, pocket passing, going through progressions. Haskins is basically the opposite...he's not a threat to run, has a decent but not great arm, and is much more of a short/intermediate passer with a mediocre at best deep ball. However, he's good at pocket passing, reading defenses, and going through full progressions. 

 

Though both have very mediocre footwork IMO. 

 

This is a very interesting passing chart for Haskins. Hes solid across the board, including deep ball. He graded extremely well against pressure as well. He's the QB I would want out of this years draft for a traditional WCO based system, followed by Lock. But not if I have to trade up for either. In that case I would send the 2nd round pick to the Cardinals for Rosen.

 

 

[mistertim]

Watching that Haskins pro day I actually think his footwork reminds me a bit of RG3. Long striders, big and somewhat slow steps, not natural looking. Haskins is going to need to make his footwork quicker and more compact in the NFL. I like Haskins throwing mechanics though...as far as his arm it does look like it's pretty good. I watched the below film breakdown of Haskins and one of the things the guy noted is his lack of spin and wrist snap being a potential issue, especially with his deep ball. That could explain Haskins seeming to have a big arm but the throws not really being indicative of that. That's something he can certainly clean up though. I wouldn't mind Haskins at 15 but I don't think I would trade up for him. I do like him more than Lock.

 

 

 

@MartinCthanks for posting that. I have to admit that my basis for grading Haskins deep ball was all the eye test so the numbers seem to indicate something different. I am open to Haskins and I think he has lots of good qualities. I just don't think he's worth giving up extra picks for.

[Est.1974]

There's a big assumption being made by the experts that SF stick at #2, no doubt they get their pick of the best D talent on offer, maybe Bosa or Williams are too good to pass over. But they have invested heavily in DL plus picked up Dee Ford in FA.

 

So the Card are nailed at #1 for Murray, someone makes a trade pre draft to jump to #3 for Haskins, then next thing out of the blue SF back out from #2 and spoil the party..

[PlayAction]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

this is a really, really good year to stack up at TE and WR. 

Hockenson at 15, Hakim Butler in the second, and Andy Isabella in the 3rd would give us a really good core of skill position players. Next year we could trade up for a QB and still have foundational pieces on offense and defense when he arrives. 

 

If it works out that way great but let's reserve that second 3rd round pick for a Guard or Tackle!

[mistertim]

38 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

There's a big assumption being made by the experts that SF stick at #2, no doubt they get their pick of the best D talent on offer, maybe Bosa or Williams are too good to pass over. But they have invested heavily in DL plus picked up Dee Ford in FA.

 

So the Card are nailed at #1 for Murray, someone makes a trade pre draft to jump to #3 for Haskins, then next thing out of the blue SF back out from #2 and spoil the party..

 

That's why I think we'd have to trade to #2 overall to ensure that we get Haskins. Can you imagine if we jumped to #3 before the draft and then someone jumped up to #2 later? Lol. It would be such an epic fail.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

That's why I think we'd have to trade to #2 overall to ensure that we get Haskins. Can you imagine if we jumped to #3 before the draft and then someone jumped up to #2 later? Lol. It would be such an epic fail.

 

Yep that would be so Redskins 

[Est.1974]

Mecole Hardman - raw but dynamic. No idea what round he's slated for but I'd love that pick. 

[bowhunter]

3 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's why I think we'd have to trade to #2 overall to ensure that we get Haskins. Can you imagine if we jumped to #3 before the draft and then someone jumped up to #2 later? Lol. It would be such an epic fail.

Trading our draft capital to #3 and spend the pick on Haskins alone would be plenty enough epic fail.

[kingdaddy]

4 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

If it works out that way great but let's reserve that second 3rd round pick for a Guard or Tackle!

I'm on board with grabbing as many playmakers as we can in this years draft and adding an offensive line starter or two if possible. I'd take a QB somewhere in the 5th round if there's a good pro prospect there but otherwise build up on playmakers at WR, TE and defense. If we suck, which is looking likely, then we get a high pick next year to get our QB of the future. We can roll with Case and Colt for 2-3 years while developing players. Best player available while building the offensive line. This draft is full of opportunity for the Skins if they play it right. I wouldn't be opposed to going O-line with our first 3 picks either if they were seen as starters. Add pieces that can play.

[wilco_holland]

I don't like any QBs we are looking at. Will Grief already made me pull my hair out when he was at Florida. 

 

But...

 

At least they do the research. I'm not sure how much we need to read into the info. Are we really wanting a QB or just making people think we want one? 

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's why I think we'd have to trade to #2 overall to ensure that we get Haskins. Can you imagine if we jumped to #3 before the draft and then someone jumped up to #2 later? Lol. It would be such an epic fail.

 

Bruce: we had three guys with extreme high grades that we would have taken if we had the #1 pick. So we are very happy with X we think the best player in this year's draft. Worked out like we hoped. 

[GatorEye]

41 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

I don't like any QBs we are looking at. Will Grief already made me pull my hair out when he was at Florida. 

 

 

Uh, I hope you mean pull your hair out because he was playing great and ruined our season and the next few after that because he got popped for PED's. He was playing great on the field for a freshman and was probably one of the few good things worth recalling from the McElwain era.  The circumstances around that whole thing were sketchy, but on the field, the guy is a baller.  I didn't watch him at WV except to see how painful the stat lines were every week when he was putting up great numbers while we were floundering at the QB position at Florida...just like we've been floundering here.

 

If he was still around in the second round I'd grab him.  I'd prefer that option over trading up and giving up picks. I think we need to get more youth and talent on cheaper contracts and giving up 2 or more guys doesn't make a lot of sense to me when our roster still doesn't stack up against the contenders.

[Commander Wolffe]

Funny.. I've always followed the draft and prospects..but this year has been interesting to observe.  Prior to two days ago Haskins was not linked to the Skins at all.. he has a pro day and all of a sudden people take notice and want us to trade up to get him. I feel like he's a nice player..but I also feel like Drew lock is nice as well. Regardless given the state of this team I'm strongly against any trade up. I understand Bruce and Jay may feel differently given their job security. Lets grab the best player available with our top four picks. Given the value at certain positions and how this draft could fall..we could easily address a playmaker on offense.. a pass rusher..an offensive lineman and QB. I don't care which order we get them. We need the most swings to potentially hit on as many playmakers as possible. We are consistently average due to the lack of high end..all pro.. pro bowl talent and trading AWAY picks will not get us there. We are not one playmaker away even if it is a QB. We need 2-4 impact players. 

[Anselmheifer]

 

 

This is long, but worth a watch. 

Also, if you think Haskins under throws his deep balls, Lock is much worse. Even in his highlight videos. 

 

[nonniey]

8 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

That's why I think we'd have to trade to #2 overall to ensure that we get Haskins. Can you imagine if we jumped to #3 before the draft and then someone jumped up to #2 later? Lol. It would be such an epic fail.

It would already have been an epic fail just trading to 3 so what would you call epic fail compounded?

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Regarding my previous posts about the importance of a QB and QB being worth more than two firsts and Payne and Scherff, that doesn't mean that I think this is the ideal year to move up for a bunch of picks. I am honestly not sure that I like Tua/Fromm/Herbert better than Haskins/Murray and I don't like any of them as much as Lawrence. That being said, this is a really, really good year to stack up at TE and WR. 

 

Haskins is better than Fromm and Herbert.  Herbert is marginally better than Lock, but Haskins is way better than both.  Lawrence is better than all of them, but Murray, Haskins, and Tua are all elite prospects too.  I like Murray the best of the three of them, but I don't think it's crazy to prefer Haskins over Murray and Tua.  He has a far better body than both of them.  They're undersized and will have the specter of missing time due to injury over them every season.

 

People are missing on Haskins, just like they did with Baker and Watson in previous years IMO.  He's absolutely worth trading up for if the price is only two firsts and mid round change/players.  I had taken him off my radar since I assumed we wouldn't be able to trade up to three (Murray goes one, Josh Allen goes two), but if there is a chance he could fall into our range or three won't cost as much as I thought, then we have to go up and get him.  It's easily the most impactful move we can make in this draft.

 

Haskins is a workhorse passer and relentless chain mover.  People underestimate the quality when they start nitpicking throws and workouts.  It's one of the biggest tells of future success IMO.  Confidence and consistency of process from read to throw on every passing down are keys to great quarterbacking.  With Haskins , moving the offense down the field was effortless.  With Lock and Herbert, and yes Daniel Jones, it's laborious.  Ditto for Rosen and Allen from the previous year.  You see it played out in the massive difference between their production and Haskins's.

 

I don't think people are acknowledging just how great Hasksin's production was BTW.  It was game after game of 40+ throws for 400+ yards and 67% completions or better.  Just such an effortless and confident passer.  The kid had 50 touchdowns and almost 5000 yards last season.  That is nuts for an Urban Meyer QB.

[profusion]

I didn't watch any of these QBs last year, so I'm not qualified to weigh in on them.

My concern about drafting a QB this year is that it essentially starts the "rookie QB contract clock" ticking immediately. This roster is such a dumpster fire right now, that I just don't think they're ready to open the Super Bowl-or-Bust window yet.

[Going Commando]

11 minutes ago, profusion said:

I didn't watch any of these QBs last year, so I'm not qualified to weigh in on them.

My concern about drafting a QB this year is that it essentially starts the "rookie QB contract clock" ticking immediately. This roster is such a dumpster fire right now, that I just don't think they're ready to open the Super Bowl-or-Bust window yet.

 

I don't agree that the roster is as bad as you are thinking.  But to your main point, you don't have to win a SB with a QB on his rookie deal.  You open a loooong window when you draft and successfully develop a franchise QB.

 

[Anselmheifer]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Haskins is a workhorse passer and relentless chain mover.  People underestimate the quality when they start nitpicking throws and workouts.  It's one of the biggest tells of future success IMO.  Confidence and consistency of process from read to throw on every passing down are keys to great quarterbacking.  With Haskins , moving the offense down the field was effortless.  With Lock and Herbert, and yes Daniel Jones, it's laborious.  Ditto for Rosen and Allen from the previous year.  You see it played out in the massive difference between their production and Haskins's.

 

This is how I felt watching Lock. Moving the offense downfield was laborious. That's a great description. I just don't see it with him as some others do. I don't think he's accurate enough. Love the arm and the personality, but honestly, rewatching Lock and Haskins, I'm not sure how much better Lock's arm is than that of Haskins. 

Also, thanks to reading this forum before bed and drinking nyquil, I dreamed last night that we took Greedy Williams at 15. Wouldn't be terrible. Funny how far that guy's fortunes have fallen. Looked like a sure top 10 pick and now might fall to the late 1st. 

 

Nasir Adderly works out today. 

[profusion]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I don't agree that the roster is as bad as you are thinking.  But to your main point, you don't have to win a SB with a QB on his rookie deal.  You open a loooong window when you draft and successfully develop a franchise QB.

 

Current NFL thinking is that your best shot is a loaded team with a young, cheap QB, unless you luck into a Brady or Rodgers who can carry a flimsy roster.

 

Redskins are a fiery dumpster apart from DL and RBs.

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Also, thanks to reading this forum before bed and drinking nyquil, I dreamed last night that we took Greedy Williams at 15. Wouldn't be terrible. Funny how far that guy's fortunes have fallen. Looked like a sure top 10 pick and now might fall to the late 1st.  

 

I think he got exposed a bit this season for some soft play and I think he also suffered a little bit from the ready comparison to Fulton.  He's still a premium field side man cover talent, but he wasn't as good as Murphy or Baker were this year.

 

In a normal year, Greedy would be pretty high value at 15 and a very satisfying pick.  But he's a lot less appealing at 15 to me if Murphy is also on the board.  He'd be incredible value in the late first.  Part of me still thinks that's very unlikely.  Good corners go earlier than people project.  I still think there is a chance that Baker, Greedy, and Murphy are all gone by 15, and that it will be the DTs and OLs that get drafted later than people expect.

[Skinsinparadise]

I didn't watch much of Lock's pro day. I noticed Jeremiah and McShay were impressed. With McShay saying he looked as good and maybe even better than Murray and Haskins. And I've noticed some here weren't impressed with it.

 

For me I don't put much stock one way or another on pro days.

 

To me Drew Lock is a wild card. Boom-bust. But I like his attributes enough to be willing to go on that ride if he falls to 15 even though that wouldn't be my top choice.  But if he falls there and they love him, no complaints from me.

 

Rosen to me is even more boom-bust than Lock.   They are different type of players. But both are not ultra accurate IMO. Both are mistake prone IMO. I like Lock's arm strength and ability to throw on the move better than Rosen. And I like Rosen's footwork and accuracy as to intermediate throws in between the numbers better than Lock.

 

My preference is they dont take any qb in round 1 or trade a first round pick. 

 

 I think we like get a surprise fall at 15 similar to 2017 and am jazzed about that but for that to happen they need to stay put.

 

As for Haskins, I just started watching him. I didn't love his game against Washington St. I liked his game against Michigan. And boy did that dude have some stud receivers who brought some serious YAC.  But I got to watch more.

 

One thing Lock and Rosen had in common in college was a poor supporting cast. E. Hall was decent for Lock and he had a decent TE but otherwise his receivers didn't seem hot.  And that team was overwhelmed by some of the big boy teams at the SEC. Rosen's supporting cast was even worse.

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

In a normal year, Greedy would be pretty high value at 15 and a very satisfying pick.  But he's a lot less appealing at 15 to me if Murphy is also on the board.  He'd be incredible value in the late first.  Part of me still thinks that's very unlikely.  Good corners go earlier than people project.  I still think there is a chance that Baker, Greedy, and Murphy are all gone by 15, and that it will be the DTs and OLs that get drafted later than people expect.

 

I think Greedy is still a value at 15, and a need. Could replace Norman in 2020. I like his ceiling better than Baker. I love Murphy later in the first. 

I love the players in this draft after round 1. I think there is a lot more value than in a typical year, and for that reason, I hope we don't give up the farm for a QB this year. I don't like Tua better than Murray or Haskins, but I do like the idea of adding one more year of talent through the draft prior to going all in. 

McQueen and SIP, what are your takes on Adderly and, FS, in general? I wonder whether we are contemplating just giving Montae another shot there. 

[Going Commando]

36 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

I think Greedy is still a value at 15, and a need. Could replace Norman in 2020. I like his ceiling better than Baker. I love Murphy later in the first. 

I love the players in this draft after round 1. I think there is a lot more value than in a typical year, and for that reason, I hope we don't give up the farm for a QB this year. I don't like Tua better than Murray or Haskins, but I do like the idea of adding one more year of talent through the draft prior to going all in. 

McQueen and SIP, what are your takes on Adderly and, FS, in general? I wonder whether we are contemplating just giving Montae another shot there.  

 

- It's been a minute since I evaluated the round 1 corners, but my takes during the season were that Greedy has the best ceiling as an outside man coverage specialist, but that he had the worst season of the three by far and that he's definitely the weakest in run support and he's not a good fit as a zone corner.  Baker is cleaner than Greedy, much tougher, and should be a good fit for any scheme.  My take on Murphy was that he is the special one.  He's the best of the bunch and I have him tied with Bosa for the sixth best grade in the class.  I think he's a Stephon Gilmore-like impact player who is a natural in man coverage but also has the instincts, aggression, and physicality to shine in zone.  I think he's a top ten talent and represents extremely high value at 15.  In fact, the only guys who could offer more value at 15 are a quarterback, Oliver, or Bosa.  Maybe Ferrell, but I have Murphy graded higher than Ferrell--the difference would be made up for in position value.

 

- If we've got a shot at a QB of the caliber of Haskins, then we have got to take it.  If you need a QB and you've got a chance at a worthy prospect, you never pass that up.  In fact, I don't think you're effort to build a team really starts until you've got the QB.  He's the foundation.  When you don't have one, the clock is ticking on everyone in your organization and they're just stuck in limbo, unable to genuinely compete or make progress.

 

- I haven't watched any of Adderly's cut ups or games and haven't evaluated him.  From what I've read he's kind of a CB/deep safety tweener and Zierlein writes that he has play recognition issues.  I don't value the safety position highly in general, particularly not the deep safety spot, which I think is in the same boat as center as the least valuable positions among the regular 22.  They have the easiest assignments and are the most replaceable athletes, but you do need strong recognition skills and that makes Adderly a little questionable at the spot for me (assuming Zierlein's right).  And I think it's extremely rare to find an Earl Thomas or Kevin Byard who can truly make an impact from the position.  I think there is a bit of a market inefficiency at single high safety and that the position tends to get a little overdrafted.  We also paid huge money specifically to get a plus talent at box safety.  Presumably that means our deep safety is going to have easy assignments in run support where they are basically just going to be running alleys and we can get away with a lesser player there.  So I'm not too worried about drafting one early.

 

That said, I think there are a couple of guys offering solid second or early third round value like Deionte Thompson and Thornhill.  Chauncey Gardner-Johnson could be another good day 2 to early day 3 option at the position too.  He's a ballhawk who gives you that extra value at the position by generating turnovers.  He's got 9 career INTs.