2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

I think all they are asking for Is Scherf, Allen (or Dayne) and our 2019 and 2020 1st round picks. Seems reasonable 🙄.

 

As long as Scherff's contract extension remains unresolved, I will continue to think he's potentially on the trade block. I hope not.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

That's the exception, not the rule. If you don't have a top notch QB you can win a SB with a great/elite defense and/or a good running game but it's rare and is also most likely going to be a one off and not repeatable ie Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, corpse of Peyton. 

 

 

It's uncommon but not that rare.  Seems to happen every few years.

 

2018 - Doesn't fit, although Goff is overrated

2017 - Fits.  Foles, Keenum, and Bortles were competing against Brady.  Although I suppose the jury is still out on Foles.

2016 - Doesn't fit

2015 - Fits.  Corpse of Peyton.

2014 - Doesn't fit

2013 - Doesn't fit

2012 - Fits

2011 - Doesn't fit, unless you don't like Eli Manning, which is reasonable.

2010 - Doesn't fit

2009 - Doesn't fit

2008 - Doesn't fit

2007 - Doesn't fit, unless you don't like Eli Manning, which is reasonable.

2006 - Fits.  Rex Grossman.

2005 - Doesn't fit (imo).

2004 - Fits. Jake Delhomme.

2003 - Fits.  Brad Johnson.

2002 - Doesn't fit.

2001 - Fits.

 

Over the past 18 seasons, 7 of them have a below average to average at best QB.  Although you can argue it's 9 of 18 for exactly half.

 

Offensive schemes clearly started improving, and I want to point to 2006 with Peyton's first ring as the start.  That's 13 seasons, and 4 of those, or 30% have had a below average to average QB starting.  If you want to include Eli in the average category, that jumps to 6/13 or 46%.

 

You can build a contender with a great team around "OK" QB play.  It's uncommon, but not rare by any means.

 

 

41 minutes ago, mistertim said:

That being said, I do NOT think that any of this year's QBs are worth giving up a couple of our best players + 1st round picks for and that includes Murray. IMO the top QBs in this class are all boom or bust. 

 

Agree here.  I think they're all pretty raw and need a lot of work.  From watching Dillon Mitchell's tape, I couldn't help but notice just how well Justin Herbert was able to throw on the move.  There's a clear talent/readiness gap between him and Haskins/Lock.  Herbert might not even be the #1 QB next year either.  He could wind up going 2nd or 3rd.

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

You can build a contender with a great team around "OK" QB play.  It's uncommon, but not rare by any means.

 

Agree here.  I think they're all pretty raw and need a lot of work.  From watching Dillon Mitchell's tape, I couldn't help but notice just how well Justin Herbert was able to throw on the move.  There's a clear talent/readiness gap between him and Haskins/Lock.  Herbert might not even be the #1 QB next year either.  He could wind up going 2nd or 3rd.

You can build a team that can get lucky and make it to or win a SB, but you can't contend for the SB or be favored to win your division on an annual basis without a QB. And, looking back 17 years glosses over the rule changes that have made it harder and harder to win without a QB. 

 

I don't think Herbert is as good as Haskins. He runs better. He isn't the passer that Haskins is. In his first full year, he completed less than 60 percent of his passes. Herbert didn't have the talented receivers that Haskins did, but he plays in a league that is definitely as passer friendly and his stats didn't nearly approach those of Haskins. Watching him, I am impressed with his running, and he has a cannon, but I don't think he's overly accurate. 

Just to be clear, I'm not advocating giving up the farm for Haskins/Lock/Murray. I don't feel comfortable enough in my QB scouting skills to do that. I would absolutely give up Allen/Payne and Scherff and two firsts for Trevor Lawrence/Luck. You can find a successful guard anywhere in the draft and you can find DT's. We could have Had Maurice Hurst last year for a song. Franchise QB's change the trajectory of a team for more than a decade. It's a no brainer. 

[mistertim]

36 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

It's uncommon but not that rare.  Seems to happen every few years.

 

2018 - Doesn't fit, although Goff is overrated

2017 - Fits.  Foles, Keenum, and Bortles were competing against Brady.  Although I suppose the jury is still out on Foles.

2016 - Doesn't fit

2015 - Fits.  Corpse of Peyton.

2014 - Doesn't fit

2013 - Doesn't fit

2012 - Fits

2011 - Doesn't fit, unless you don't like Eli Manning, which is reasonable.

2010 - Doesn't fit

2009 - Doesn't fit

2008 - Doesn't fit

2007 - Doesn't fit, unless you don't like Eli Manning, which is reasonable.

2006 - Fits.  Rex Grossman.

2005 - Doesn't fit (imo).

2004 - Fits. Jake Delhomme.

2003 - Fits.  Brad Johnson.

2002 - Doesn't fit.

2001 - Fits.

 

Over the past 18 seasons, 7 of them have a below average to average at best QB.  Although you can argue it's 9 of 18 for exactly half.

 

Offensive schemes clearly started improving, and I want to point to 2006 with Peyton's first ring as the start.  That's 13 seasons, and 4 of those, or 30% have had a below average to average QB starting.  If you want to include Eli in the average category, that jumps to 6/13 or 46%.

 

You can build a contender with a great team around "OK" QB play.  It's uncommon, but not rare by any means.

 

 

 

Agree here.  I think they're all pretty raw and need a lot of work.  From watching Dillon Mitchell's tape, I couldn't help but notice just how well Justin Herbert was able to throw on the move.  There's a clear talent/readiness gap between him and Haskins/Lock.  Herbert might not even be the #1 QB next year either.  He could wind up going 2nd or 3rd.

 

That's fair, though I was just going by SB winners as opposed to guys who got there. But yes, it's possible to build a contender around average QB play but history shows that you're not going to do it for more than one or two years in a row. Dilfer, Johnson, Delhomme, Grossman, Corpse of Peyton, Foles, etc...none of those guys were more than a one time thing (except Peyton obviously, but we renamed him Corpse of Peyton for just that reason). 

 

As far as next draft, yeah it has the potential to be a really good QB class. Lawrence won't be there but you'll have at the very least Tua, Fromm, and Herbert. IMO all 3 of them are better than any QB in this class not named Murray. And I think Tua and Fromm are both better prospects than Murray. Out of those three I'd go with Tua at 1, Fromm at 2, and Herbert at 3 but of course that depends on how they play this coming season.

[skinny21]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Haskins? Campbell?  McLaurin?  From what I recall Jay doesn't attend a lot of pro days.

 

 

 

Refresh my memory... I know Gruden said something about wanting a receiver that can block, but was it him or someone else that said they need to add speed (I think specifically regarding the receiver position, but maybe not).  

 

Not directed at you persay - I could see Haskins and Lock becoming franchise qbs, but Murray is the only one I think has a solid/decent chance at being transcendent - ie making up for other areas of deficiency.  

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Refresh my memory... I know Gruden said something about wanting a receiver that can block, but was it him or someone else that said they need to add speed (I think specifically regarding the receiver position, but maybe not).  

 

Gruden alluded to wanting a big WR.  Multiple beat guys said they want speed.    The biggest marriage I can think of when it comes to both dynamics would be DK Metcalf.   But the only receivers thus far we've heard they like is N'Keal Harry and Marquise Brown.

 

Parris Campbell IMO would fit the profile some.  He's not big but isn't small either.  He's got some serious speed.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

37 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

You can build a team that can get lucky and make it to or win a SB, but you can't contend for the SB or be favored to win your division on an annual basis without a QB. And, looking back 17 years glosses over the rule changes that have made it harder and harder to win without a QB.

 

I mean, even Rodgers and Brees have only been to a single SB.  Once the juggernaut that's terrorizing the NFL has retired (Belichick/Brady), then all that the rest of the normal 31 teams in the league seem to be able to hope for is getting a lucky run.  Rodgers went to an OT loss in the Conference Finals, so we'll say he's contended twice for the sake of it.

 

But even with Brees, the Saints haven't really contended.  This past season was the first playoff run the Saints have been on since they won the SB back in 2009.  That's shocking.  Philip Rivers has been on some stacked teams and he's never been to the SB.  His best was back in 2007 when they lost the AFC Championship.  That team still had prime LT running around like crazy.

 

I'm not arguing a Great QB isn't miles more worthwhile to a team than an "OK" QB, I'm just saying trading all of the premier young talent for an Elite QB will set the franchise back to the point where an Elite QB flounders away being pissed off that his team sucks.

[Skinsinparadise]

if anyone wants to participate in the board's mock draft, it can be fun 😀, there are some slots open on it.  

 

 

 

On another note, this dude is hit and miss typically but for entertainment purposes

 

 

 

[clskinsfan]

Watching Haskins Pro Day right now on NFLN.....WOW! Like I saw on tape. His mid range accuracy is ridiculous. They are not doing a whole lot to show off his athleticism in this workout. That is my one concern for him. But his arm is a beautiful thing.

 

Loving this redzone sequence during the workout. He has ALL of the throws that you need to succeed in the NFL. Pretty amazing workout in all honesty.

[skinny21]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Gruden alluded to wanting a big WR.  Multiple beat guys said they want speed.    The biggest marriage I can think of when it comes to both dynamics would be DK Metcalf.   But the only receivers thus far we've heard they like is N'Keal Harry and Marquise Brown.

 

Parris Campbell IMO would fit the profile some.  He's not big but isn't small either.  He's got some serious speed.  

AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler, Samuel, and Campbell (as you point out) all have solid (or better) speed and size.  Campbell didn’t seem to be asked to block much, but the others seem capable, particularly Butler.  Miles Boykin is an interesting one with excellent size, speed and COD, and seems to sometimes relish laying hits in the run game.  

 

Given 1) this is likely Doctson’s last year, 2) Quinn and Richardson have some injury issues (understatement for PR), 3) development time for receivers, and 4) we lost Harris, Floyd (so far) and Crowder, 5) Sims/Davis/etc are unknowns and Quick hasn’t been used... I’m thinking we almost have to draft 2 receivers.  

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

10 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

Watching Haskins Pro Day right now on NFLN.....WOW! Like I saw on tape. His mid range accuracy is ridiculous. They are not doing a whole lot to show off his athleticism in this workout. That is my one concern for him. But his arm is a beautiful thing.

 

Loving this redzone sequence during the workout. He has ALL of the throws that you need to succeed in the NFL. Pretty amazing workout in all honesty.

Told ya'll!! 😀

 

There's absolutely no doubt in my mind DH will be a star.

 

Might as well happen in his hometown.

 

[HigSkin]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just caught Doug on Riggins show.  He flat out said what Hoffman said he heard -- they want guys who can play well immediately and contribute to the team right away.

 

So if this is a save our jobs draft -- the big hints to me is they are drafting towards needs and prefer guys that have some built in polish to them where they hit the ground running.

[PlayAction]

18 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Scherf, Allen and 2 firsts would be worth it for an elite franchise QB. Just saying. You don't have a team if you don't have a QB. The problem is the uncertainty. You might be trading for Ryan Leaf. 

 

Ugh.  I hate this thought process.  I think I'd make that trade only for Payton Manning in his prime.  Every other established franchise QB could fail here.  The two firsts are all about possibilities - you have as much chance of getting a future franchise QB with one of the firsts as you do by using two plus two players that were worth their first round pick status.

 

All the offseason talk about the front office not communicating with the coaches is really depressing for a fan.  I'm preparing myself mentally for a huge bone-heading decision coming soon.  Along the lines of: trade for Haynesworth to use as a disrupting DT without asking the coaches;   trade for McNabb without asking the OC whether McNabb is a fit for the scheme; trade away a Kings ransom in picks for RG3 without asking the HC in advance whether the price was too steep; sign Collins without checking whether his skill set compliments what the secondary coaches felt were the needs.  I'm waiting for the Skins to draft two WRs and find out that we will now have three on the roster best suited to the slot.

 

I hope the Skins do not draft a "starting" caliber QB this year.  If Gruden is on a one year deal there is no benefit to having a rookie QB deal with a change in offensive philosophy in year 2.  I'd much rather provide a solid foundation for a rookie QB's future success with a solid OL, a dependable TE, a couple good RBs and a few WRs.  That will take most of this year's draft picks though.  

[veteranskinsfan]

I am also mentally prepared for another Skins bonehead move if they go to the third pick to get a college quarterback.  So many other major holes on this team to fill.

"Winning in the off season" phrase often associated with Redskins could easily turn into "Losing in the Off Season" this year.  I think our owner thinks Haskins reminds

him of RG3.  I hope I am dead wrong and they are just bluffing right now.

[PlayAction]

11 hours ago, skinny21 said:

AJ Brown, Hakeem Butler, Samuel, and Campbell (as you point out) all have solid (or better) speed and size.  Campbell didn’t seem to be asked to block much, but the others seem capable, particularly Butler.  Miles Boykin is an interesting one with excellent size, speed and COD, and seems to sometimes relish laying hits in the run game.  

 

Given 1) this is likely Doctson’s last year, 2) Quinn and Richardson have some injury issues (understatement for PR), 3) development time for receivers, and 4) we lost Harris, Floyd (so far) and Crowder, 5) Sims/Davis/etc are unknowns and Quick hasn’t been used... I’m thinking we almost have to draft 2 receivers.  

 

Agree 100%.  The question is when to draft them and whom?  Personally, I'm not comfortable drafting a WR at 15 as I think the team will likely have a better value at either T or Edge.  I'd be fine with WR in the second or third rounds - hopefully one WR in the 2nd/3rd and one later 4-7 rounds. 

[HardcoreZorn]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just caught Doug on Riggins show.  He flat out said what Hoffman said he heard -- they want guys who can play well immediately and contribute to the team right away.

 

So if this is a save our jobs draft -- the big hints to me is they are drafting towards needs and prefer guys that have some built in polish to them where they hit the ground running.

 

I take that to mean a guy like Hockenson or an edge or maybe Devin White if he falls. Hockenson because he is so pro ready and would really help open up the offense I think in a variety of ways. A guy like Burns could have a huge impact in pass rush situations almost immediately. White fits the profile of strengthening the middle even further and we know we chased Mosley hard and last year Edmunds and James were certainly in the mix. 

 

I would not discount a small trade up for Lock or Haskins if they really like them and think they could perform well as rookies. Not my preference but QB is a different beast and would be a forward looking move. So don’t expect it but not totally ruling it out. 

[dyst]

Now, let's not rush to judgement  yet. We don't know what it will take to move from to #3 from #15. Maybe the Jets will allow us to keep our #15 and trade them Colt McCoy straight up. You never know how these trades will go down. Don't be all negative at the thought just yet.

[PlayAction]

9 minutes ago, dyst said:

Now, let's not rush to judgement  yet. We don't know what it will take to move from to #3 from #15. Maybe the Jets will allow us to keep our #15 and trade them Colt McCoy straight up. You never know how these trades will go down. Don't be all negative at the thought just yet.

 

Your Kool-Aid sounds especially refreshing.  Grape is my favorite flavor.

[dyst]

19 hours ago, Skin'emAlive said:

We don’t have the core to trade the farm for a qb. We have no receivers, a 50-50 guy at TE, a rookie rb coming off an acl year with both his backups being 34 or injury prone, a blaring hole at LG, an aging and injury prone LT, and a hole at edge rusher. I could understand going all in next year. But there are just too many holes to go all in for a top 5 pick. 

And Bruce Allen still has a job. So sad. We always have holes. If we fill one, we create another. 

[Skinsinparadise]

43 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I take that to mean a guy like Hockenson or an edge or maybe Devin White if he falls. Hockenson because he is so pro ready and would really help open up the offense I think in a variety of ways.

 

Agree, he's been my guy at 15 for months now.  I can see some saying he doesn't fill a need if that's what they are driven by in part.  But to me he fills one big time because of their reliance on the duo runs which heavily depend on TE blocking.  And this team also telegraphs arguably too much whether they are running or passing based on the TEs on the field.  As Cooley pointed out Sprinkle in = run.    Also if this is a win now season I think there one chance is to do it on the ground - similar to the beginning of last year.  Other guys that fill that type of purpose but at LG:  Cody Ford, Jonah Williams. 

 

43 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I take that to mean a guy like Hockenson or an edge or maybe Devin White if he falls.

 

I like Devin White.  Wonder if he falls though but as I've said on this thread many times the math adds up that someone unexpected will fall.  That's another reason why I don't want to trade up in this draft unless its super cheap.

 

43 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

A guy like Burns could have a huge impact in pass rush situations almost immediately.

 

Burns is one of my guys too.  And agree speed rushers if they are good can hit the ground running no pun intended.

 

43 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I would not discount a small trade up for Lock or Haskins if they really like them and think they could perform well as rookies. Not my preference but QB is a different beast and would be a forward looking move. So don’t expect it but not totally ruling it out. 

 

Teams put out false information on purpose so I don't know what to make of draft rumors especially this far out.  But if I take them seriously plenty of buzz that the Redskins are willing to trade up for a QB.  I love Murray.  Not sure what to make of Haskins, yet and I have some concerns.  I like Drew Lock more than most but see some bust potential. 

 

If they love Lock and he drops to 15.  I'd take him.  If they trade up and just give up a third, I'd do it.  I don't want to give up the moon for Haskins.  With Murray, I don't want to give up a ton to get him either even though I love the player.  I worry about his durability. 

 

If it were me, I'd skip QB in the first (unless they love Lock and he drops to their pick) and go for the next tier where they don't sacrifice a 1st. Within that group, Ryan Finley might be my favorite the more I watch him from that next group.  I'd also take a flier on Grier or Rypien, maybe even Stidham. 

 

 

[Enforcer_FFX]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Enforcer_FFX said:

 

 

I am ok with Grier outside of the first round.  but wonder if the tweet below means something in the long run.  Will see.

 

 

 

PFF loves Grier.  From a pure metric stand point, Grier puts up good number in just about every study I've seen.

 

 

 

[RabidFan]

I previously said that after watching the QBs at the combine, it looked like Lock and Grier had the swagger about them...the "it" factor if you will.  

 

We've heard the Skins like Lock, Jones,  and now hearing Haskins which would go into the "sniffing around the Jets #3" is all about.  

As SIP said, if lock falls to 15 or to 12 i would take him.   Grier hopefully could be had in the 2nd or 3rd but teams go crazy for QBs at the draft so one might jump to back of 1st to get one and that additional contract year.   Sets up perfect for New England to get more picks and richer.  

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I am also mentally prepared for another Skins bonehead move if they go to the third pick to get a college quarterback.  So many other major holes on this team to fill.

"Winning in the off season" phrase often associated with Redskins could easily turn into "Losing in the Off Season" this year.  I think our owner thinks Haskins reminds

him of RG3.  I hope I am dead wrong and they are just bluffing right now.

 

I almost cannot think of a prospect more unlike RG3 than Haskins; the only thing they have in common is being black. RG3 was a dual threat QB who's strengths were his ability to run, big arm, and deep accuracy. His weaknesses were reading defenses, pocket passing, going through progressions. Haskins is basically the opposite...he's not a threat to run, has a decent but not great arm, and is much more of a short/intermediate passer with a mediocre at best deep ball. However, he's good at pocket passing, reading defenses, and going through full progressions. 

 

Though both have very mediocre footwork IMO.