2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[JaxJoe]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

MMQ with a new mock with Haskins falling to us at 15.  Typically QBs build buzz as the draft approaches -- Haskins seems to be going the other way.  Though there is plenty of time for it to reverse. 

 

I’ve finally watched 5-6 games each of Lock and Haskins and if I were forced to pick one at #15, I’d chose Lock.

 

But neither are as good as Kyler Murray. 

 

When watching Haskins, what stands out to me is the uncanny numbers of throws Haskins makes in the flat - screens to RBs, bubble screens and tunnel screens. I wouldnt be surprised if these accounted for 70% of Haskins’ 2018 yardage. Sure, they're good passes but it’s the receiver’s YAC that should be where credit is due. Haskins hits a lot of accurate well-timed shallow crossing routes, too,  where the reciever also gains chunks of YAC. When I see a 25-30 completion, it’s usually a ludicrously wide open reciever. Urban Meyer doesnt run many hitches and curls and I havent seen a single slant. None of this is Haskins’ fault but I worry that these typically pro routes are not in his game. Another thing that stood out was in each game I saw (Purdue, Mich St, Neb, MD, Mich), there were 2 or 3 interceptions that DBs flat out dropped; tight coverage passes that just weren’t that good. I think luck was on Haskins’ side much of 2018 season as there could’ve easily been  6-8 more INTs, and that is only 5 games I watched. I think Haskins’ mobility is decent, not as bad as the Leftwich comparisons, but rarely do you see Haskins use his legs to buy time - it’s usually to scramble for a few yards. Haskins, by-the-way, is an ugly slider but at least he slides. Haskins does read the defense pre-snap very well. He knows where the open reciver is going to likely be and exploits it well. He had good receivers too. Not a lot of boneheaded drops. 

 

Lock on the other hand had fairly pedestrian receivers. Much of Missouri’s passing game was very pro-like and Lock shows he can make all the throws. He can fire a rocket in tight spaces or loft a touch pass for a fade or drop it right over the shoulder on a fly route - very impressive. Trouble is, his receivers couldn’t always catch a very catchable ball. Typically, coverage was more tight than Ohio St receivers as Missouri’s competition was typically superior. But despite that, Lock fought and scrapped together a pretty decent season and kept his team in a lot of games up to the very end. Lock has good feet, great shoulder position when delivering a pass, but also shows a good ability to throw on the back foot with accuracy when rushed. Lock is way better than Haskins in extending plays with his feet. Lock is by far more athletic. Lock shows talent at hitting a slant, seam, or a deep post route when his receiver may only have a step on the DB. Very pro-like. I just didnt see a lot of successful tight window passes from Haskins.

 

Lock has a better throwing motion. Haskins has a more powerful arm yet doesn’t get much spiral on the ball. Coaches will have to work on that. Lock’s biggest trouble is taking a quarter second too long to make a pass which I believe can be fixed. For instance, Lock needs to get rid of the ball before the receiver makes his cut or break. If he can fix this, Lock will be a very good QB. Haskins is much better at getting the ball out faster but it’s typically to a more wide-open receiver - like all those screens and shallow crossing routes. Haskins makes these throws look easy because he has good pre-snap reads but sometimes it causes him to somewhat stare down his receivers too much. He doesn’t scan the field as much but typically doesnt have to. Lock is rather amazing at how much of the field he sees during the play. If he had receivers and an O-line like Ohio St, he probably wouldnt have to look the whole field over as much. Another thing I like about Lock is his ball placement on all throws is pretty darn accurate. Not a whole lot a DB can do for an easy pick. Where Lock got in trouble at times was not seeing a defender underneath the route. Haskins’ INTs on the other hand were just bad passes. 

 

I think both QBs futures are bright but I see Lock as being more pro-ready if he can take a year of coaching and get the ball out faster. I think if Lock had a great receiver, he could be really good. But at the moment, the Redskins don’t have that receiver for him. 

 

I could also see passing on both at #15 and waiting until next year’s better QB crop. If this were the strategy, we may be able to trade down and get more picks. I think we can still get a good speedy edge guy in the later half of the first round and there’s a bunch of quality guards, receivers, and corners in the 2nd & 3rd rounds.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Haskins? Campbell?  McLaurin?  From what I recall Jay doesn't attend a lot of pro days.

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

14 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

Here's a YAC guy to think about.  WR, Dillon Mitchell, from Oregon.  6'1 and 195.  Runs a 4.4 and looks that fast on tape.  Saw him repeatedly separate deep against both Stanford and Michigan State.  He's not the insane style of start stop acceleration that Marquise Brown has in terms of YAC.  But he's certainly slippery and frequently makes the first tackler miss.  I see route running potential on tape.  He's got a lot of positives, to the point where I'm not sure why he's rated as a 5th rounder.

 

The negatives would be, doesn't high point well at all, can catch away from his frame but really prefers body catching, is a little thin so there might be tape of him getting bodied off of routes by physical corners.  If he's rated as low as the 5th round, probably some more negatives I'm missing.

 

He had 38% of Oregon's total receiving yards.  Herbert had 3151 passing yards, 1184 of those were to Mitchell.

 

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/dillon-mitchell?id=32194d49-5422-8980-b5b6-45b020209f4e

 

His short area burst and start/stop look very good. Long speed looks terrible, regardless of his 40 time at the combine. I guess it all depends on his route running. I wouldn't mind him in the later rounds. 

Between Maurice Harris and Jamison Crowder, we have production to replace and roster spots to fill. Unless we make a major trade for a WR, I think we will be drafting at least 2. 

 

SIP, thanks for posting on the pass rushers. Burns is climbing my board. He might be a good choice at 15. I can't help but think though that we might be able to get Polite in the 3rd and should be able to get Ben Bonagu in the 3rd. I might rather have Greedy Williams or Byron Murphy in the 1st and Polite or Bonagu in the 3rd. I still think that the best move at 15 might be a trade down. This would love to have just a bunch of 2nd and 3rd round picks in this draft. 

[skinny21]

Houston, with two 2nd rounders, looks like an ideal trading partner.  It’ll be interesting to see if teams are loathe to give up a 2nd or 3rd given the talent in this draft.  

[HigSkin]

 

[bowhunter]

2 hours ago, HigSkin said:

 

I see NYG as the biggest competitor in the Rosen lottery. I like this thought. Rosen for a 3rd (or even 2nd) is better than Haskins for a 1st

[Andre The Giant]

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/2019-nfl-draft-could-redskins-find-trade-partner-in-jets-in-an-attempt-to-land-dwayne-haskins/

[Anselmheifer]

Inside linebacker Mack Wilson: Wilson was timed in the 4.65 range in the 40, had a 33-inch vertical jump and posted a 10′1″ broad jump.

 

https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2019/03/a-rundown-of-the-numbers-from-alabamas-pro-day.html

Mack Wilson's numbers look ok, but not great for a guy considered to be a coverage linebacker. It looks like Deionte Thompson still isn't working out. I thought his production was ok, but not fantastic. I don't think he's going to be able to work out before the draft. I do think his stock will slep and he's easily looking at a fall into the 3rd/4th. 

 

I think there will be a lot of big name guys taken a little lower than they should be this year. Jachai Polite. Deebo Samuels. Hakim Butler. Etc. There is going to be value in the 2nd through 4th. I know I'm a broken record on this. 

 

 

[RWJ]

Allen and O' Connell at Ohio St. Pro Day per Mark Bullock.  JP and Coffman may not be right about what they've said about Skins interest in Haskins.  Just saying they might not be right.  Who knows.    Only the Skins FO. 

[Skin'emAlive]

Proposal: trade down with the 1st (#15 + 5th round/future 4th) to Indianapolis for pick # 26 (Indianapolis selects DK Metcalf)

 

1st Round

Washington: AJ Brown WR at #26

2nd Round

Washington: Chase Winovich LB at #34

Washington: Garrett Bradburry / Chris Lindstrom OL at #46 (whomever is available)

3rd Round

Washington: Will Grier QB at #76

Washington: Foster Moreau / Zach Gentry TE at #96 ... possible trade down scenario here with the ability to get either in the 4th.

5th Round

Washington: Tyree Jackson QB/TE at #153

 

Release McCoy after the draft. Go into the season with Keenum, Grier, Jackson as your qbs, and see what happens. This leaves you with options the following year in a loaded qb draft should this work out poorly in the qb development department.

[MEANDWARF]

Please no RG3 type trade for this guy. We have so many holes.

 

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Redskins are "very much intrigued" by Ohio State QB Dwayne Haskins.

The Jets at No. 3 overall are reportedly open for business and would be more than willing to trade out of that spot after landing Sam Darnold last year. The Redskins are said to be one of the prime candidates to come up should Kyler Murray and Nick Bosa go Nos. 1 and 2 in the draft. Washington's quarterback situation is bleak with Case Keenum and Colt McCoy on year-by-year deals and Alex Smith (leg) unlikely to play again. The Skins would seemingly have to leap the Raiders and Giants at Nos. 4 and 6 overall for a chance at Haskins.

[SemperFi Skins]

If we go to #3 and Murray's gone, (which I hope we won't do) then we'd be reaching for Haskins/Lock in my opinion... especially with talents like Quinnen Williams/Josh Allen/Devin White, etc still on the board.

[Skin'emAlive]

Quinnen, Allen, Devins are moot points. You only trade up that high for a qb, and there’s not a chance any of them are on the board at 15

[bowhunter]

I feel confident that one of  either Lock (30% chance), or Haskins(60%  chance) will be available at 15. Don't trade away our potential OLB, LG, WR chasing something that is standing still.  I'd still rather have Rosen, even if it costs us a 2nd

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, MEANDWARF said:

Please no RG3 type trade for this guy. We have so many holes.

 

CBS Sports' Jason La Canfora reports the Redskins are "very much intrigued" by Ohio State QB Dwayne Haskins.

The Jets at No. 3 overall are reportedly open for business and would be more than willing to trade out of that spot after landing Sam Darnold last year. The Redskins are said to be one of the prime candidates to come up should Kyler Murray and Nick Bosa go Nos. 1 and 2 in the draft. Washington's quarterback situation is bleak with Case Keenum and Colt McCoy on year-by-year deals and Alex Smith (leg) unlikely to play again. The Skins would seemingly have to leap the Raiders and Giants at Nos. 4 and 6 overall for a chance at Haskins.

I think all they are asking for Is Scherf, Allen (or Dayne) and our 2019 and 2020 1st round picks. Seems reasonable 🙄.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, Skin'emAlive said:

Quinnen, Allen, Devins are moot points. You only trade up that high for a qb, and there’s not a chance any of them are on the board at 15

 

I disagree. I think a couple of those guys will be there at 15. Maybe even Haskins. Most likely available at 15 would be Lock and Jones IMO. But there will be one of those guys available when we pick. 

[Anselmheifer]

2 minutes ago, nonniey said:

I think all they are asking for Is Scherf, Allen (or Dayne) and our 2019 and 2020 1st round picks. Seems reasonable 🙄.

Scherf, Allen and 2 firsts would be worth it for an elite franchise QB. Just saying. You don't have a team if you don't have a QB. The problem is the uncertainty. You might be trading for Ryan Leaf. 

Also, someone above mentioned the colts possibly trading up. Would be so dumb of them, IMHO. This draft will have almost as much value picking at 30 as 15. I saw Johnathan Abram mocked to them at 26. He would look so good in their defense, with Malik Hooker. I hate them for having the bright looking future that we don't!

 

How does the board feel about AJ Brown? I like him, but don't love him. I like Marquise Brown, DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel, Hakim Butler, and maybe N'Keal Harry and Parris Campbell more. Maybe I'm just afraid of big guys that might not have the best separation skills and I'm misinterpreting AJ to be that guy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Scherf, Allen and 2 firsts would be worth it for an elite franchise QB. Just saying. You don't have a team if you don't have a QB. The problem is the uncertainty. You might be trading for Ryan Leaf.

 

I don't think that's right.

 

Broncos won a SB with the corpse of Peyton Manning, carried by a ridiculous defense.  In 2017, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles were 1 game away from the Super Bowl, they were also carried by crazy defenses.  Joe Flacco has a ring, in part because the Ravens said "**** it", rolled the dice, and switched up their o-line entirely and offensive scheme.  Opponents didn't have enough film and then they faced off against another stacked team with an up and down QB in Colin Kaepernick.  Rex "**** it, I'm throwing it anyways" Grossman was in the Super Bowl.

 

These were all in the more modern offensive era.  We start going further back and the schemes were more and more basic and old school.

[Skinsinparadise]

On Haskins.  Sheehan says (he could be wrong) he heard Jay doesn't care for him.  Although Laconfora says the Redskins brass are intrigued by Haskins.  I was listening to Mike Miller's podcast today where he said he heard the Giants like Haskins but he wasn't sure if they like him so much that they trade up for him.

 

Typically, the Redskins play checkers while the better teams play chess (my A or B theory below).   But if I am going to give them some credit for being wily than a few theories:

 

A. if they don't love Haskins and think the Giants do love him -- at least act like they want Haskins to force the Giants to perhaps use their two first round picks to trade up

 

B.  If there is a shot that the Cards don't take Murray and or keep playing coy about him and Rosen -- then send them a message (if they want Rosen or to trade up for Murray) that they love someone else so they won't stick around forever and let the Cards have all the leverage.  The Cards could always find another dancing partner but presume they want the Redskins as part of the bidding.

 

C.  They genuinely love Haskins and Sheehan's report was wrong about Jay.

 

D.  Jay might not love Haskins but others in the FO (Dan?) are in love with the guy.  

 

 

 

[nonniey]

22 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Scherf, Allen and 2 firsts would be worth it for an elite franchise QB. Just saying. You don't have a team if you don't have a QB. The problem is the uncertainty. You might be trading for Ryan Leaf. 

Also, someone above mentioned the colts possibly trading up. Would be so dumb of them, IMHO. This draft will have almost as much value picking at 30 as 15. I saw Johnathan Abram mocked to them at 26. He would look so good in their defense, with Malik Hooker. I hate them for having the bright looking future that we don't!

 

How does the board feel about AJ Brown? I like him, but don't love him. I like Marquise Brown, DK Metcalf, Deebo Samuel, Hakim Butler, and maybe N'Keal Harry and Parris Campbell more. Maybe I'm just afraid of big guys that might not have the best separation skills and I'm misinterpreting AJ to be that guy. 

I have reservations about Deebo (injury concerns) maybe if we get a 4th round pick or he falls to the 5th.  Wouldn't mind any of the others as Day 2 picks or Metcalf and Butler as day 1 picks (Butler not as high as pick 15 though).

[Skin'emAlive]

We don’t have the core to trade the farm for a qb. We have no receivers, a 50-50 guy at TE, a rookie rb coming off an acl year with both his backups being 34 or injury prone, a blaring hole at LG, an aging and injury prone LT, and a hole at edge rusher. I could understand going all in next year. But there are just too many holes to go all in for a top 5 pick. 

 

If anything, trading down makes more sense. Fill the primary holes and then take a mild shot at a qb in the 3rd, see what you have by 2020, and then make the decision. 

[MEANDWARF]

50 minutes ago, nonniey said:

I think all they are asking for Is Scherf, Allen (or Dayne) and our 2019 and 2020 1st round picks. Seems reasonable 🙄.

Sorry, but I would not doubt that Danny and Brucey would bite on that.😏

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Haskins? Campbell?  McLaurin?  From what I recall Jay doesn't attend a lot of pro days.

 

Couple of OL as well who potentially fall in the 3/4 round range, but damn it sure looks like they are keen on Haskins. Not sure I like the idea that we end up picking at #3 in the draft for him....

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Ugh. Haskins is a decent prospect but he is not worth giving up a ton to move up from 15 to a top 3 spot for. Most other drafts he'd be a borderline 1st rounder IMO. Same with Lock.

 

59 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

I don't think that's right.

 

Broncos won a SB with the corpse of Peyton Manning, carried by a ridiculous defense.  In 2017, Case Keenum and Blake Bortles were 1 game away from the Super Bowl, they were also carried by crazy defenses.  Joe Flacco has a ring, in part because the Ravens said "**** it", rolled the dice, and switched up their o-line entirely and offensive scheme.  Opponents didn't have enough film and then they faced off against another stacked team with an up and down QB in Colin Kaepernick.  Rex "**** it, I'm throwing it anyways" Grossman was in the Super Bowl.

 

These were all in the more modern offensive era.  We start going further back and the schemes were more and more basic and old school.

 

That's the exception, not the rule. If you don't have a top notch QB you can win a SB with a great/elite defense and/or a good running game but it's rare and is also most likely going to be a one off and not repeatable ie Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco, corpse of Peyton. 

 

That being said, I do NOT think that any of this year's QBs are worth giving up a couple of our best players + 1st round picks for and that includes Murray. IMO the top QBs in this class are all boom or bust.