2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Est.1974]

3 minutes ago, rumplestilskin said:

According to reports apparently the Giants don't see Haskins a fit for their team. LOL

I think they'll trade for Rosen.

[rumplestilskin]

2 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I think they'll trade for Rosen.

I agree, either that or trade up for Murray.

[Est.1974]

1 minute ago, rumplestilskin said:

I agree, either that or trade up for Murray.

 

Agree, although I still think the Raiders are the dark horse for Murray. Don't see the Cards passing him over at #1 to be honest, but still some variables out there.

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

If you have no trade down opportunities and your pick 15 options include Jonah Williams and Montez Sweat which do you choose? Shades of last year's draft.  

Personally, I take Williams.  Instant starter for the LG position and he brings the versatility to move to tackle in case of injury.  Also possible that he takes over for Trent or Moses in a couple years (or sooner).  I also think we have a viable starter at ROLB in Anderson, whereas we can’t say the same about LG.  We could always re-up McPhee for depth, though maybe we’ll see what the draft brings first.  

 

Other factors:

Oline injuries probably hurt us the most last year. 

The league is more pass reliant and offense friendly than ever.  

We can try to find a situational rusher later in the draft. 

LG is our biggest hole in the team.  

We have 2 talented backs - we need to build on that strength.  

[volsmet]

On 3/15/2019 at 6:59 PM, volsmet said:

 

 

Clayton Thorson showed promise early in his career -- that earned him an invite to the Combine -- but he has the profile of a third-string quarterback. Draft Over/Under: 250

 

 

Thorson o/u 250, Grier o/u 64.5. What odds can I get on Thorson before William, should be +1500 or so, based on this. I’m in. 

 

Under 🤔

 

• 

  CLAYTON THORSONQB, NORTHWESTERN WILDCATS

  

  Bleacher Report's Matt Miller reports that "there is legitimate buzz for [Northwestern QB Clayton Thorson] around the league."

  Thorson didn't participate in the Reese's Senior Bowl due to injury, but "buzz" is building behind the scenes. When Senior Bowl director Jim Nagy polled 10 NFL GMs, none of them gave Thorson below a third-round pick, but that was back in January, so things can certainly change. In 2016, Thorson threw 22 touchdowns to nine interceptions, but he regressed in back-to-back seasons since.

  SOURCE: Matt Miller on Twitter

  Mar 16, 2019, 12:58 PM

[volsmet]

10 hours ago, bowhunter said:

I think we aren't in a position to trade away any OL talent at the moment. Realistic trade options only exist when there is depth at a position. If we still had Nseke it might be a remote (but very risky) possibility , but it's one I wouldn't consider if I was GM. Christensen looked like a poor pick when it happened, and I don't think we've seen anything yet to convince us otherwise  

 

At this moment, going for it, I agree. I think we are delusional though, a nice OT isn’t helping us get closer to a SB, or NFC title game, we needed to start the rebuild. 

 

You’re absolutely right about Olinemen, we need everyone we have if we want to compete & the way these guys are getting paid makes Trent even more valuable, but I think the entirety of his value, for Washington, is in a trade. He’s an asset we need to invest into our future, imho. 

 

 

 

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

It depends on your outlook on the team. Not projecting these on you, just stating my view, 

If you think we are a player or two and some better luck with injuries away from a great season, then I agree, you can't trade away someone like TW right now, even with his recent injury history.

 

However, if you believe like I do that there are major holes throughout the team, then I think you have to trade him while you can. I would have done so before last year to be honest. This is no knock on TW. He is great guy and and an excellent player when on the field. But he is finding it harder and harder to stay on the field. Each yr they do not trade him his value and ability go down while his CAP number goes up.  

 

As for Christian, OL take a few yrs to develop and get NFL ready. Everyone was sure Moses was a total bust after his first season that ended with Lisfranc after 8 gms. Christian played in all of two games before getting injured. The snap judgement on him is more based on people not liking the pick to begin with. Just for reference, he was taken just 8 picks later then Moses in his draft (pick 74 vs pick 66). Not sure if that means anything other than people need to be more patient with these guys, especially linemen. There is a reason they were not 1st rd picks but that does not mean throw them out the window after all of 2 gms either. 

 

[volsmet]

10 hours ago, bowhunter said:

I do view OL differently than I view other positions. If your MLB sucks, the safety behind will get more tackles. He is expecting contact and although maybe getting a bit more wear, should get up to see another play. Even in the running game, whether your RB gets +9 yards or -2, they still get tackled every play, but in the passing game the performance of your OL has a direct impact on your QBs health and career. The QB is not expected to be viciously hit (esp blindside from LT play) on designed pass plays. I might be old school, but OL should be the first building block of any team. Let's face it, we do NOT have any depth along our OL at the moment. It is a glaring hole that needs to be corrected and taking away the strongest link in a very weak chain only further weakens it. It would be nice to have the luxury of Trent being an expendable talent. But until a quality team is assembled, we can't afford such a luxury. It is what it is

 

I agree teams start with the OL, but we just lost 3 QBs to gruesome injuries with Trent, we aren’t contenders, he’s not getting better, he’s not getting healthier, & he’s a blunt away from a years suspension. Trent could help put someone over the top, we aren’t that someone, imo. He could, however, bring back pieces that help make us contenders in the future. 

8 hours ago, hogdirty said:

Redskins need to start targeting PLAYMAKERS!  O-line/edge positions will eventually be filled in through later rounds or second half of free agency.  I know this opinion will be unpopular on here but whatever.  My top 5 playmakers are:

 

1. 1. Kyler Murray

2. Marquise Brown

3. Parris Campbell

4. Deebo Samuels

5. Diontae Johnson

 

I also believe Darnell Savage from UMD has big playmaking potential on the defensive side

 

Agreed, we need explosion on both sides, we are a plodding team that never/rarely makes the opposition uncomfortable in any phase. 

 

 

[volsmet]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

I’ve heard Lindstrom mentioned in round 1 far more frequently of late, I didn’t like him a great deal in the sr bowl, but I’m going to check that Clemson game out now that you’ve pointed out what you saw, if he handled Wilkins, that’s really as much as I’d need to know as far as on the field stuff, his interviews were phenomenal apparently. 

[volsmet]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sheehan's sources would have to be dead wrong (not saying they are or aren't, you never know) who told him the Redskins FO isn't into Haskins and Jay in particular doesn't like him. 

 

So if its true that the Giants aren't digging Haskins and likewise the Redskins aren't into him -- wonder what happens when you got Jax out of the picture because they have Foles.  Denver supposedly loves Lock.  Miami?

 

Could the Pats may move up to grab him if he falls far enough?

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jay's got some company apparently if its true that the Giants aren't digging him.  Scot McCloughan thinks he's a Leftwich clone.  Chris Simms isn't blown away by the dude.  Chris Cooley who actually has been right about a lot of players (not perfect. granted) thinks he will likely be a bust.   So Jay not totally out on an island if that's true. 

 

 

 

Not to mention - your ES compadre.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I’ve heard Lindstrom mentioned in round 1 far more frequently of late, I didn’t like him a great deal in the sr bowl, but I’m going to check that Clemson game out now that you’ve pointed out what you saw, if he handled Wilkins, that’s really as much as I’d need to know as far as on the field stuff, his interviews were phenomenal apparently. 

 

When I watch him and Ford and J. Williams back to back which I did this morning you can tell (from my point of view) Lindstom is a tier below those two.    In the Clemson game, they rotate their D line so he wasn't always facing Wilkins.  But when he did face Wilkins, he did OK.  The reason why I like him but don't love him is his contact balance seems ok but not great.  He slips too much for my liking.  Also while he can move to the 2nd level, you don't really see him pancake guys much like you saw from Scherff in college and the pros. 

 

He also likes to cut block a lot which puts defenders on the ground and referees in the pros tend to throw flags when they see defenders on the ground.  I thought cut blocking wasn't allowed in college?  If so, he gets away with it at times.

 

Yeah I've seen him in the late first in some mocks.  I think that's rich for him IMO.  But he'd be an upgrade for us.   Cody Ford and Jonah Williams are clearly better than him IMO.

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've read a lot about both prospects but only just started studying Jonah and I like him but haven't studied Sweat.  Sweat as an athletic freak for that that position but oddly with the rep of being stiff and not having great bend.    In theory, I'd take Sweat.  Not everyday you can find an OLB who can run faster than the typical receiver and with enough girth to stop the run.  He has long arms.  He has the profile of being a freak at that position.  But I need to watch him to land hard on an opinion. 

 

 

 

In an extraordinarily limited setting, I see Sweat as the guy who showed up at the combine. I like Clelin a lot, but watching 1 quarter of the sr bowl was enough to move Sweat comfortably ahead of him for me, as I posted here, but he had no responsibilities in that game other than to get up the field in a hurry, which plays to his strength. I couldn’t believe how well he moved because of where I saw him, or, where I didn’t see him in mocks. Watching a full game is a must, Sweat & Lindstrom on deck tonight.

 

 

4 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I think they'll trade for Rosen.

 

Nauseating thought.  

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Personally, I take Williams.  Instant starter for the LG position and he brings the versatility to move to tackle in case of injury.  Also possible that he takes over for Trent or Moses in a couple years (or sooner).  I also think we have a viable starter at ROLB in Anderson, whereas we can’t say the same about LG.  We could always re-up McPhee for depth, though maybe we’ll see what the draft brings first.  

 

Other factors:

Oline injuries probably hurt us the most last year. 

The league is more pass reliant and offense friendly than ever.  

We can try to find a situational rusher later in the draft. 

LG is our biggest hole in the team.  

We have 2 talented backs - we need to build on that strength.  

 

Hard to argue with that. Guards are becoming more & more important imo. It’s just harder to get pressure outside with the elimination of the 7 step drop & limited contact allowed on WRs.  

[volsmet]

22 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

When I watch him and Ford and J. Williams back to back which I did this morning you can tell (from my point of view) Lindstom is a tier below those two.    In the Clemson game, they rotate their D line so he wasn't always facing Wilkins.  But when he did face Wilkins, he did OK.  The reason why I like him but don't love him is his contact balance seems ok but not great.  He slips too much for my liking.  Also while he can move to the 2nd level, you don't really see him pancake guys much like you saw from Scherff in college and the pros. 

 

He also likes to cut block a lot which puts defenders on the ground and referees in the pros tend to throw flags when they see defenders on the ground.  I thought cut blocking wasn't allowed in college?  If so, he gets away with it at times.

 

Yeah I've seen him in the late first in some mocks.  I think that's rich for him IMO.  But he'd be an upgrade for us.   Cody Ford and Jonah Williams are clearly better than him IMO.

 

Cut blocks are legal within 5 yards of the line as long as you block from the front; but if you’re inside the tackle box ... nearly everything is legal. Guards have free rein, essentially. 

 

I think you just described the guy I saw in the sr bowl, he was solid, but I didn’t see any first round potential. I thought @stevemcqueen1‘s guy Risner looked like a better guard prospect than Lindstrom... even with Risner playing RT. Risner is showing up in round 3 with regularity, I can’t imagine he gets out if 2. I haven’t watch his Kst games, but you can see a decent bit of what guys can/can’t do in the sr bowl; Risner looked smooth to me, but Lindstrom had the far better combine & that’s an advantage in raw talent that coaches/scouts, with good reason, get excited about. 

 

We are all guilty of falling victim to various forms of recency bias in our lives, I think Lindstrom moving so far passed Risner is more about the allure of potential than it is about football. I’d be very interested in reading your comparison between those two based strictly on what you see on the field. Actually, I’d love to see all the guards you have round 2 grades on, but your Risner/Lindstrom comparison is particularly interesting to me when you have a bit of time to share that.

 

[skinny21]

25 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Hard to argue with that. Guards are becoming more & more important imo. It’s just harder to get pressure outside with the elimination of the 7 step drop & limited contact allowed on WRs.  

So true, and frankly, if we weren’t “all in” this year, I may well go for Sweat instead.  I think he or Burns would be a nice pairing with Anderson.  

 

Semi related, but it terms of pressure (3rd down in particular), I’d think another option is to beef up our secondary to try to make qbs hold the ball a tick longer.  Murphy and Thornhill maybe.  

Allen/Payne/Ioannidis/Kerrigan would have some fun if that happened.  Maybe run a 3-2-7 and blitz JHC, Foster or Collins.  Not sure Manusky is up for tinkering like that.  

 

On an unrelated note, I’d love to land Warring in the 3rd.  

 

Edit:  I’ve seen Risner going in the 1st a fair bit

 

[nonniey]

22 minutes ago, PlayAction said:

 

If you have no trade down opportunities and your pick 15 options include Jonah Williams and Montez Sweat which do you choose? Shades of last year's draft.  

Well that would be a nice problem to have - Hard choice but I'd lean Williams as he'd fill the immediate needs at LG and could be a replacement at either tackle position.

[volsmet]

23 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

So true, and frankly, if we weren’t “all in” this year, I may well go for Sweat instead.  I think he or Burns would be a nice pairing with Anderson.  

 

Semi related, but it terms of pressure (3rd down in particular), I’d think another option is to beef up our secondary to try to make qbs hold the ball a tick longer.  Murphy and Thornhill maybe.  

Allen/Payne/Ioannidis/Kerrigan would have some fun if that happened.  Maybe run a 3-2-7 and blitz JHC, Foster or Collins.  Not sure Manusky is up for tinkering like that.  

 

On an unrelated note, I’d love to land Warring in the 3rd.  

 

Edit:  I’ve seen Risner going in the 1st a fair bit

 

 

The competing considerations, who is best for us now, vs who is more likely to help a team win a SB. The Sweat/Williams debate ties in directly with the new NFL we are talking about, get the guy who can protect up the middle or the freak who can get around the edge, but is likely capped at 15 sacks if he’s an absolute freak. I think I have to protect the middle. If Williams is a guy with pro bowl potential, I’m taking him. I want the explosive play maker on defense badly, but an explosive EDGE is absolutely useless if we can’t score & force our opposition to be one dimensional more often. 

 

Great question, I’m going back & forth as I write. I don’t know Williams potential, but we can’t win if our QB can’t climb comfortably & we can’t run the ball when we want to. 

 

 

“Semi related, but it terms of pressure (3rd down in particular), I’d think another option is to beef up our secondary to try to make qbs hold the ball a tick longer.“

 

I couldn’t possibly agree more. What the NE corners, Gillmore in particular, did in the SB was unbelievable. McVay has a SB ring if NE doesn’t have Gillmore, imo. That was one of the top 5-6 SB performances I’ve ever seen. That was probably one of the most impactful performances I’ve seen in a title game if any kind. Unbelievable. 

 

Many coaches say they won’t call a play in big a situation, they will call on a player. If we can get the guy who can shut down someone’s top option, then we become far more dangerous. We don’t have the player to call a play for, the player who can blow up the Oline, the player who can shut down a #1 WR, or a QB. 

 

🤔

 

That makes it really difficult to decide on what/who we need most at 15. Seems a BPA spot if we can’t trade out. But, circuitously, that leaves me back at a Sweat v Williams predicament. 😂

 

Allen/Snyder don’t make this easy on us. I rambled on & am more lost than I was when I began my response. 

 

Im summation:

 

 

 

[skinny21]

@volsmet Yeah, I mean generally (at least traditionally and market-wise), the stud edge rusher is going to be more important, right?  Partly because they can be a game changer, as you allude to.  Yet we’re in a position  where we need one more addition on the oline to make a big impact on both qb play and the ground game.  One weak link on the line can have seriously adverse affect on both areas (as we’ve seen firsthand).  If we were a mess at oline, I’d say take the edge guy, because at least our D would be closer to a finished/good product.  

 

Of course, you could argue that lack of depth and injury issues on the oline mean we’re a hair away from being a mess, so... who the hell knows, lol.  

 

 

Edit:  BTW, I saw that Walter moved Savage up to number 4 (after Abram, Rapp and Thornhill).  Nice to see some confirmation of my thinking he’s one of the top guys and goes in round 2.  I think he’d be a really nice pairing with Collins (and adds that speed element we need), but I think his natural range is between our 2nd and 3rd.  

I was also watching some of Tell’s tape... he’s a nice all around safety prospect that someone’s gonna be pretty happy to have down the line.  Seeing him start back peddling as the single high and then fly downhill to make a tackle 3 yards past the LOS was beautiful.  

 

I find it interesting that Sweat is dinged for bending the edge, but is viewed as an early 1st rounder, whereas Winovich has the same flaw and is seen as a far lesser prospect.  Granted, Sweat has the arms and speed, but Winovich is close enough that I don’t see him lasting beyond our 2nd.  While I can see us looking more at a speed rusher (Winovich is plenty fast though) that can bend the edge, I think Wino offers the immediate impact the FO is looking for and becomes a solid rotational guy (at worst).  Obviously Kerrigan’s been an iron man for us, but Winovich also offers 3 down depth in case of injury.  Best case, he takes the starting spot over Anderson and helps our run game issues while bringing enough speed to be a problem on 3rd and longs.  JMO of course.  

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

 

Edit:  BTW, I saw that Walter moved Savage up to number 4 (after Abram, Rapp and Thornhill).  Nice to see some confirmation of my thinking he’s one of the top guys and goes in round 2.  I think he’d be a really nice pairing with Collins (and adds that speed element we need), but I think his natural range is between our 2nd and 3rd.  

 

I finally got around to having a decent looks at the draft yesterday and picked up on Savage. Agree he'd be a great selection, although I'm assuming his draft stock is on the rise. 

 

Its the annual dilemma, but having another couple of day two picks would be great. That obviously means backing out a bit in the first.

 

[skinny21]

41 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I finally got around to having a decent looks at the draft yesterday and picked up on Savage. Agree he'd be a great selection, although I'm assuming his draft stock is on the rise. 

When I was watching safeties back to back, he stood out because he’s flying around, whereas some would throttle down when the play wasn’t in their immediate vicinity.  I’m a big fan of guys with motors... it’s not enough by itself, but you’re bound to leave plays on the field if you slow down assuming your teammates will get a guy down.  His athleticism - great speed and change of direction are huge and lacking on this team.  He probably needs some polishing, but eh- who doesn’t, particularly at a position like FS.  Size isn’t great, but big enough to make a difference in the ground game I think.  

Quote

 

Its the annual dilemma, but having another couple of day two picks would be great. That obviously means backing out a bit in the first.

 

Man, I’ve been saying this since I started watching tape in the offseason - there’s a lot of legit talent through the 3rd round, and I keep finding more prospects I’d love to take there.  Add in the number of areas we could use starters/competition, and trading down in the first becomes even more attractive to me.  

 

 

 

Parsing down some some of my favs (re. talent and value)

FS: Thornhill, Savage.  I really like Hooker and Tell too.  

TE: Hockenson, Warring

Wr: Isabella, McLuarin, Arcega-Whiteside, Sills.  Like Campbell, Samuel, Lodge and Hall (among others)

ILB: Watson, Burr-Kirven.  Intrigued by Takitaki

Edge: Winovich, Gustin, Walker

Qb: Like Grier a lot, kind of dig Stidham (has the tools) - feel his oline held him back.  Intrigued by Thomson and Ta’amu.  I think Finley and McSorley are guys we could stash on the PS and maybe become our McCoys of the future.  

 

Don't see it as much of a need because backs (outside of pass pro) don’t usually need as much development time, but I’d love to land Montgomery in the 3rd/4th (if he’s there of course).  I’m so close to loving Singletary, but man, at his size, that speed/burst is concerning.  Incredible balance and vision though.  

[Est.1974]

20 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

ILB: Watson, Burr-Kirven.  Intrigued by Takitaki

 

Man, I also picked up on Burr-Kirven yesterday. Along with David Long who I prefer as my pick in this draft.

 

Thing to remember is that in FA the only other major target was ILB Mosley. Obviously the price got out of hand, but we were in the race on a massive FA contract at some stage. Now I could potentially see Brown returning on a more viable deal, however to me it is clear that ILB is a target area for major upgrade.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Man, I also picked up on Burr-Kirven yesterday. Along with David Long who I prefer as my pick in this draft.

 

Thing to remember is that in FA the only other major target was ILB Mosley. Obviously the price got out of hand, but we were in the race on a massive FA contract at some stage. Now I could potentially see Brown returning on a more viable deal, however to me it is clear that ILB is a target area for major upgrade.

I’ll have to take a look at Long.  Tuned into BK after seeing his combine scores.  That athleticism shows up on tape, IMO.  I’ve said 3rd round for him (like w/our comp pick), but I’m guessing that’s a tad bit high.  Still like him more than most that look a bit more plodding (shoutout to @volsmet).  

 

To your point, it does make me wonder if they target ILB earlier.  

[Skinsinparadise]

I recall Maurice Hurt dropped like rock down the draft at least compared to projections -- with a heart condition concern.  hopefully not that serious.

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I finally got around to having a decent looks at the draft yesterday and picked up on Savage. Agree he'd be a great selection, although I'm assuming his draft stock is on the rise. 

 

Its the annual dilemma, but having another couple of day two picks would be great. That obviously means backing out a bit in the first.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[dballer]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Hopefully just significant enough for him to drop down to 15. Probably the only chance we have at him.