2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[WelshSkinsFan]

In 2 years the current CBA expires and the likelihood is the next CBA is going to see a significant increase in player compensation, it is not even debatable that compared to other sports football players get the smallest slice of the revenue pie and the NFLPA has not been quiet about that in the lead up to these negotiations.  In all probability the $17m in year 3 is going to be cheap for the position although in all likelihood there won't be any football in 2021 anyway, I expect a significant hold out this time around.

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, dballer said:

 

Yeh, little early to consider Apke a blown pick. Let it breathe a little lol!

 

 

I agree with this, but I also think it was a reach.  I suppose you could argue though that if we liked him so much but waited, we might have drafted him in the 5th instead of Settle...

I think he could make an excellent gunner for us (if he stays healthy), but that doesn’t warrant a 4th.  Still time though, and even if he ‘only’ turns into a valuable depth player (and good ST player), it won’t be a wasted pick.  

50 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

I'm sorry but I'm standing firm if the absolute best wr in the draft is there at 15 the skins should take him.

I dig the sentiment, but I don’t see the value of a receiver at 15.  Much better value later in the 1st or into the 2nd.  

43 minutes ago, dballer said:

 

Who do you think walked out the door? Before the Landon signing it was pretty much understood that Crowder and Smith were probably not coming back...

I tend to agree with this in that I was ok letting those 2 walk.  However, if Collins’ salary means we can’t resign Ioannidis next year, that could be a blow.  

40 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Feels like we always commit a pretty egregious reach in either the 3rd or 4th round.

Maybe that’s why they traded their 4th for Dix, lol.

I thought Christian and Apke were both reaches, so... yay.  There’s so much talent in the mid rounds this year, I hope they don’t botch it this time. 

 

 

@Skinsinparadise Leftwich is probably a good comp for Haskins.  What may set him apart though is his intellect and dedication - he seems like a film junkie/student of the game that might be able to reach the upper echelon of qb’ing because of those traits.   15 is not a bad spot for that promise/chance I think.  Of course, to your point, it does seem the team isn’t enamored with him, so even if he falls, I don’t see us taking him.  

[dballer]

So lets say we get to the second round pick and Garrett Bradbury is on the board, you have a 1st round grade on him and he is the best player on your board. Is it worth it to take him and convert either him or Chase to G?

[nonniey]

49 minutes ago, dballer said:

So lets say we get to the second round pick and Garrett Bradbury is on the board, you have a 1st round grade on him and he is the best player on your board. Is it worth it to take him and convert either him or Chase to G?

Depends if he is the BPA and if not what position/positions the higher players are.  If he is I'd probably say yes go for it.

[Bonez3]

Looking at the OLB spot in round 1... one of the most impactful position in the league and we'll be in prime spot to land a likely blue chipper. I've stated WR is need but much more variability in the success ratio at that position.

  

I think it accomplishes both need and BPA together. 

[mhd24]

If we stay at 15, it'll be an edge rusher unless Devin White falls.  My preference is to trade down to a team wanting Fant (going ahead of Carolina who needs to replace the aging Olson) or Greedy.  We need an extra 3rd round pick to take a WR/G with.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

54 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Looking at the OLB spot in round 1... one of the most impactful position in the league and we'll be in prime spot to land a likely blue chipper. I've stated WR is need but much more variability in the success ratio at that position.

  

I think it accomplishes both need and BPA together. 

 

I feel a lot better about our chances now that Green Bay paid big money for 2 Edge guys.  Before that, I didn't think the Edge's I wanted would last to #15.

 

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 Leftwich is probably a good comp for Haskins.  What may set him apart though is his intellect and dedication - he seems like a film junkie/student of the game that might be able to reach the upper echelon of qb’ing because of those traits.   15 is not a bad spot for that promise/chance I think.  Of course, to your point, it does seem the team isn’t enamored with him, so even if he falls, I don’t see us taking him.   

 

Disagree heavily with the Leftwich comp that's being floated.  Two of the things that defined Leftwich, the lumbering feet and glacial release, don't apply to Haskins at all.  His pocket footwork is very fluid and his release is awesome.  Wrist flicks on deep outs.  It's almost as fast as Lock's.  Leftwich didn't have anywhere near Haskins's arm talent.  Just because he's a slow runner doesn't mean he's not a twitchy athlete.  His pocket game is very quick.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, dballer said:

 

I don't know but before free agency began the word was they were going to be gone. I don't know that they weren't re-signed due to the Collins contract. 

 

And Smith got a hell of a deal himself. I think they believe Ryan Anderson is good enough to not need Smith. 

 

Crowder is tough, he was the best receiver we have when he was on the field. But he's coming off a couple of injury riddled seasons and he basically started sucking in the return game. And again, he got a real healthy contract. And they really do believe in Quinn, seemingly.

 

 

 

I think we'd been planning to sign Collins for a while and made the decision to get him at any cost when he wasn't tagged.  I also think we viewed Preston and Jamison as expendable and made no real attempt to keep them.  I think the net result of this has been that we made tread water moves.  (Hopefully) we didn't get worse, but also didn't improve.  In order for that to happen, we have to hope that Landon gets a lot better here, and that Ryan Anderson steps up big time.  Those things could certainly happen, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I don't love letting decent homegrown talent walk for nothing.  The comp pick never really matches the lost value and it doesn't come if we spend too.  I prefer conducting earlier extension negotations with guys who've shown pretty well in their first or second years, and not having the open market price them out of reach.

[Going Commando]

2 hours ago, dballer said:

So lets say we get to the second round pick and Garrett Bradbury is on the board, you have a 1st round grade on him and he is the best player on your board. Is it worth it to take him and convert either him or Chase to G? 

 

I would not put a first round grade on Bradbury, in large part because I think he's a center only prospect.  I don't think I would experiment with him at guard.  He might even fall below our size threshold at center.  We don't seem to run a scheme with room for undersized linemen.  I think Elgton Jenkins, Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, Connor McGovern, or hell maybe even Lindstrom are more natural fits for us at center and guard because of their size.

[skinny21]

13 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Disagree heavily with the Leftwich comp that's being floated.  Two of the things that defined Leftwich, the lumbering feet and glacial release, don't apply to Haskins at all.  His pocket footwork is very fluid and his release is awesome.  Wrist flicks on deep outs.  It's almost as fast as Lock's.  Leftwich didn't have anywhere near Haskins's arm talent.  Just because he's a slow runner doesn't mean he's not a twitchy athlete.  His pocket game is very quick.

Great point about the release (and feet) - Haskins gets the ball out quite fast.  

 

I agree about letting talent walk, but in part it’s about whether you’ve seen their ceiling.  I think we have for both Smith and Crowder.  Don’t get me wrong, I’m not happy to see them go - they both brought something to the table, and the team is worse on paper now.  However, we have guys waiting in the wings behind them.  So in that sense, I think the FO did what a responsible FO should.  

Ioannidis on the other hand, I kind of think we should have tried to work out an extension after year 2.  Now we’re looking at one last year on his rookie salary and then we probably can’t retain him.  Of course, maybe he wouldn’t have gone for it knowing he might be in for a big payday if his trajectory continued.  

[WelshSkinsFan]

Fairly sure the CBA says you can't negotiate an increase/extension with a player you drafted until after year 3 so this would be our first chance with Ioannidis.  I do think there is a chance a deal like that gets done after FA and the draft once the team knows what it has left over for extensions for this league year.

[Est.1974]

Gruden specifically mentioned before FA that we had major gaps at safety and ILB. Collins and Mosley were our two FA targets. Priced out over Mosley but I would ILB very high on the list of priorities for the draft. That's is unless we eventually bring Z.Brown back on a more reasonable contract.

[Going Commando]

19 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 Ioannidis on the other hand, I kind of think we should have tried to work out an extension after year 2.  Now we’re looking at one last year on his rookie salary and then we probably can’t retain him.  Of course, maybe he wouldn’t have gone for it knowing he might be in for a big payday if his trajectory continued.   

 

This is going to be painful.  And it's part of why I'm worried about the Collins deal and I want to take advantage of this freakishly good DT class.  It's true that he might have turned down a long term deal after last season, but betting on yourself when you've got long term security sitting on your lap isn't so easy.  If I were the team I'd say look at what happened to LeVeon Bell.  The grass isn't always greener, nor the market kind.

11 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Gruden specifically mentioned before FA that we had major gaps at safety and ILB. Collins and Mosley were our two FA targets. Priced out over Mosley but I would ILB very high on the list of priorities for the draft. That's is unless we eventually bring Z.Brown back on a more reasonable contract. 

 

It's not a good ILB class unfortunately.  If we're targeting the position early then it will probably entail need-reaching.

 

I would wait around on ILB.  Target a guy like Te'Von Coney late on day 2 or early day 3.

[dballer]

10 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

I would wait around on ILB.  Target a guy like Te'Von Coney late on day 2 or early day 3.

 

Should find out soon about Foster's availability to start the season. If he gets little to no suspension we will be looking much better.  

 

I like Coney. Would rather have Pratt if available at the time, but Coney is solid too. 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

In 2 years the current CBA expires and the likelihood is the next CBA is going to see a significant increase in player compensation, it is not even debatable that compared to other sports football players get the smallest slice of the revenue pie and the NFLPA has not been quiet about that in the lead up to these negotiations.  In all probability the $17m in year 3 is going to be cheap for the position although in all likelihood there won't be any football in 2021 anyway, I expect a significant hold out this time around.

 

It’s a tough spot for the players, they don’t have as much leverage. 

[volsmet]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'd guess a 4th rounder based on his production and subpar combine. The rap on him is he's a polished route runner like his brother but is a slower version of him.  He didn't have big numbers at Georgia (most blamed that though on the scheme) but he didn't help himself at the combine.  I'd like him though just not early in the draft, I've talked about him on the thread on and off.

 

 

 

McCloughan said Haskins reminds him a lot of Leftwich.   I still haven't watched Haskins yet to make up my own mind.  His numbers are eye popping but some like Cooley and Chris Simms say those #'s are deceiving.  Then again Haskins has a lot of fans among the draft geek-mock draft people.  

 

 

 

 

Mccloughan, sharp man. Terps fans should watch, 2023 NFL prospect - Lance Legendre. I know Steve will get fired up if we start throwing out prospects for 2023. 😂

 

https://www.hudl.com/profile/5285021/Lance-Legendre/videos

 

I think Riley will go pretty early, but the WR’s group is the most fascinating I can recall. There may be 15 guys with grades in the top 3 rounds, but the order is wildly different from team to team. Walter Football just did a mock that had Butler in 3 & Isabella in 6, I believe. That’s absurd, on each, but it speaks to the depth of the middle rounds. 

 

I’m still a little shaken up from the number of times we passed on Diggs, that was tough to watch. His brother, gracious, he’s going to be ridiculous.

 

[volsmet]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

If Lock is the next Matt Stafford, sign me up.  😀  But I wouldn't give up the moon to get him, I'd at most trade up a little.  The one guy I keep hearing including via Sheehan yesterday that they love is Kyler Murray.    As for them tipping their hand, yeah its weird because they are good at keeping their FA intentions quiet but they leak on the draft.  Last year those leaks ended up being pretty accurate.  The one thing though is they like to say their draft evaluations are on going so maybe they like certain guys at a given time but their opinions change/evolve?

 

 

 

People talk about college QBs who lock on to WRs, Matt Stafford & Jimmy G played in the most frustrating game to watch of 2018 for me, these guys were playing in neck braces.

 

If we love Kyler, Oak loves Kyler, no way Jay gets ahead of Jon. Jon should be trading back to next year, while picking up middle rounders, but, he’s Jon. With that job security you can do it the right way. Instead, they will win two things:

 

Jack

&

🤫

[dballer]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I would not put a first round grade on Bradbury, in large part because I think he's a center only prospect.  I don't think I would experiment with him at guard.  He might even fall below our size threshold at center.  We don't seem to run a scheme with room for undersized linemen.  I think Elgton Jenkins, Dalton Risner, Erik McCoy, Connor McGovern, or hell maybe even Lindstrom are more natural fits for us at center and guard because of their size.

 

He was 6'3" 306 at the combine. Identical to Lauvao. Couple pounds lighter than Roullier. But I was thinking more of converting Roullier to guard. Just a thought though. 

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

With the benefit of hindsight Derwin James becomes even more valuable to us, not just because of his onfield play, but because it would have prevented us from spending so much on Collins.

 

I want to love Collins.  I really appreciate that he wanted to be here so badly, and that he was over the moon to sign with us.  He's such a great fit from a culture standpoint.  But I just can't get past how expensive he is.  I have a bad feeling about the contract.  And I believe it already caused some of our young talent to walk out the door, without proper compensation or ready replacements on the roster.  We're treading water and we need to hit a home run with this draft to actually advance as a team.  We need to get Haskins or Murray, or else hit big on multiple guys at the other positions.

 

By Haskins, do you mean Lock? 🤔

 

I’m absolutely with you on Collins, Derwin was the obvious choice, he was Jay’s choice according to most, but we are Washington. Derwin last year leaves us here to go grab Wilkins or Oliver. I’m all over that.

 

I’m going to set up a gofundme to get the decisive Steve breakdown on Haskins, I need that in my life. I love the McQueen breakdowns. 

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, WelshSkinsFan said:

I would add that now we know the real numbers and not the fluff announced by his agent, Collins was really not that expensive and we can move on fairly painlessly in 2 years if we want to.

 

If we want to move on in 2 years, it will be because the pain endured was unbearable. 🙁 I don’t understand that logic, but I also don’t understand why people think AZ would trade for Case. A world of syllogisms I can’t quite get my head around.

 

Major Premise

All Redskins signings stink

 

Minor premise

Washington signed Collins

 

Conclusion

The Collins signing stinks

 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

The reaction around here if we select Daniel Jones is going to be hilarious, that's one reach we have to avoid. 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, skinny21 said:

 

 

 

@Skinsinparadise Leftwich is probably a good comp for Haskins.  

 

Thank you.

[dballer]

Just now, volsmet said:

 

If we want to move on in 2 years, it will be because the pain endured was unbearable. 🙁 I don’t understand that logic, but I also don’t understand why people think AZ would trade for Case. A world of syllogisms I can’t quite get my head around.

 

Major Premise

All Redskins signings stink

 

Minor premise

Washington signed Collins

 

Conclusion

The Collins signing stinks

 

 

 

I think they are banking on having Alex Smith off the books and most likely Norman. If the goal is to have a starting QB on a rookie deal, which has been stated that would ease the Collins $ pain in year 3. 

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, dballer said:

So lets say we get to the second round pick and Garrett Bradbury is on the board, you have a 1st round grade on him and he is the best player on your board. Is it worth it to take him and convert either him or Chase to G?

 

Depends on who else drops & what your grade on him/chase are as guards, of course. James Daniels fell beyond Indi because they had a round 1 grade on him as a C, but they didn’t have the same confidence in him as a g, so they went another direction at g in the top of round 2. 

3 hours ago, mhd24 said:

If we stay at 15, it'll be an edge rusher unless Devin White falls.  My preference is to trade down to a team wanting Fant (going ahead of Carolina who needs to replace the aging Olson) or Greedy.  We need an extra 3rd round pick to take a WR/G with.

 

 

What Edge do you guys think we are looking at if we stay at 15?