Owls0325 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I think Dawson Knox (TE) is going to be a steal in this draft- underutilised in OleMiss offense and good blocker Height: 6’4.5 Weight: 249 Vertical jump: 34 inches Broad jump: 10-2 40-yard dash: 4.57 Short Shuttle 4.34 Playing in a talented offense at OleMiss alongside Brown and Metcalf, don't think he got the touches he deserved. Already getting comparisons with George Kittle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brixtion_skin Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 On 3/29/2019 at 11:10 AM, HigSkin said: We already kind of have a DK Metcalf. 😂😂 Outside of injury - any reason Davis has not been more prominent. The numbers look good. Not sure the extra body mas helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 36 minutes ago, Brixtion_skin said: Outside of injury - any reason Davis has not been more prominent. The numbers look good. Not sure the extra body mas helps! Its all injury. He was a PS stash in 17, then in Aug of 18 he broke his leg and tore his LCL. I picked him as a lock to make the 53 man roster this year had he not blown his leg up in camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/3/29/18287163/poor-pro-day-highly-regarded-pass-rush-prospect-jachai-polite-high-risk-nfl-draft-free-fall Holy hell did Polite have an awful pro day. 5.04 forty. 8'06" broad jump. 7.59 3 cone. 14 bench press reps. The forty and the broad jump, and especially the broad jump are damning. An 8'06" broad jump? That's an undraftable edge player. Read below. Lance Zierlein says, "You really can't find 'steals' with these numbers in NFL history at that position." Very damning. I am not sure in what round I would take polite. Sixth maybe. Lance Zierlein ✔@LanceZierlein High risk bust. The numbers I have in front of me .... you really can't find "steals" with these numbers in NFL history at that position. They simply don't test that slow, unexplosive and unstrong. Unless there is something causing these numbers... not likely to be a "steal" @NotNickMurray Replying to @LanceZierlein Does this mean he'll be a steal? Or just a higher risk of being a bust? 6 12:29 PM - Mar 29, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy See Lance Zierlein's other Tweets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I wasn’t quite as high on Polite as some on here, but I liked his tape a lot more than those numbers indicate - that’s shocking stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Cowboys, Redskins, Seahawks, Raiders on hand to watch Turpin run sub 4.4 at his Pro Day https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/college/big-12/texas-christian-university/article228605784.html Sounds like he has a ton of character concerns, but so does Reuben Foster, Tyreek Hill, Big Ben, and on an on. He looks super explosive and could be an utter steal from a production standpoint. Also, is anyone familiar with Yosuah Nijman, out of Virginia Tech? At the combine, was 6'7" 324 pounds with 34 inch arms. 27 reps on bench. 114 inch broad jump. 8.07 three cone. 4.05 shuttle. He just ran ran a 4.83 at his pro day, at 314 pounds. At the combine, his 40 would have been 1st, broad jump was 5th, 20 yard shuttle was 2nd. He sounds raw, but he has outstanding length and athletic traits. Players that run a 4.83 at 314 pounds are extraordinarily rare. I would definitely draft him. If he develops, you could have a Jason Peters, etc. https://www.nfl.com/prospects/yosh-nijman?id=32194e49-4a39-4486-5ad3-455d5d7e45d9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 12 hours ago, Anselmheifer said: Im pretty sure that someone earlier in this thread posted a statistical analysis of the most important combine drills for each position and that for WR it is broad jump and vertical jump. No? I didn't see that. Where was it? To me broad jump and vertical are certainly important for burst...especially broad jump which shows lower body explosion. But what does that show you for a WR? That he's probably fast off the line, if he's big he'd be good against press coverage probably, and that he can jump high for jump balls (though that requires body control, leverage, and understanding of high pointing more than pure leaping ability). It doesn't tell you anything about how sudden they are at getting in and out of breaks and how fast their feet are. IMO those things are what the 3 cone and the shuttle show and are incredibly important in the pro game. If you have a receiver who's really explosive, and really fast in a straight line, but who sucks at changing direction and who has slow feet then there's only so much you can expect him to be great at. Watching Metcalf's cutups I was already unimpressed with his route running but I was giving him a bit of a mulligan since the route tree he ran in college was mostly simple vertical concepts and he was so physically gifted that he didn't necessarily need to run good routes; plenty of good college WRs run sloppy routes. But after the combine it seemed to me more like it was a feature of his game, not a bug. 10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: I like Harry. He is a strong bodied receiver who can turn on a dime and he is crafty. But he's not in Metcalf's world IMO. His YAC game is not going to translate to the NFL like it will for a burner like Hollywood or a moose like Butler. He's a slightly taller Pierre Garcon. He'll almost certainly be a workhorse possession receiver, but he'll never scare teams and require special scheming like Metcalf. Metcalf is a scheme buster who puts corners and safeties on notice and you have to scheme in brackets for him the while game. He makes your passing game better just by lining up because he lets the other guys eat and lets the QB key in on the deep safety and make easy reads. I just don't see Metcalf as a guy who needs special scheming in the NFL, unless he manages to become much more gifted at cutting/getting in and out of breaks, gets quicker feet, and becomes a really good route runner. He's definitely no Julio. He's big, explosive, and fast in a straight line but not all that much beyond that IMO. Could he be a potential 1:1 press coverage issue? Sure. But that isn't insurmountable and defenses in the NFL can find ways to limit those kinds of 1 dimensional players. I don't think Metcalf will be a total bust as he is talented and seems like a good kid, but I also don't see him ever becoming an elite pro receiver. His physique, crazy 40 time, and vertical are overshadowing other glaring issues he has that IMO are far more important to whether he'll transition to the NFL game well. His cutups just don't impress me that much as a complete WR prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 30, 2019 Author Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, skinny21 said: I wasn’t quite as high on Polite as some on here, but I liked his tape a lot more than those numbers indicate - that’s shocking stuff. He's had an inexplicably terrible postseason. There is something bad going on with him, I would bet. Those are the numbers of a guy who hasn't trained at all. You have to question his commitment to the NFL at this point, and think about taking him off your board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owls0325 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He's had an inexplicably terrible postseason. There is something bad going on with him, I would bet. Those are the numbers of a guy who hasn't trained at all. You have to question his commitment to the NFL at this point, and think about taking him off your board. 2 hours ago, skinny21 said: I wasn’t quite as high on Polite as some on here, but I liked his tape a lot more than those numbers indicate - that’s shocking stuff. I've read reports that he's carrying an hamstring injury, however he's chosen to push through it which doesn't look like it's been the best thing for him to do in terms of his draft stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skin'emAlive Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 I hate when scouts deem a person unworthy and full of character concerns without looking at the details. Like Foster, Turpin had two separate incidents with the same ex-girlfriend, and an otherwise spotless history. Sometimes you just end up with the wrong girl. Turpin reminds me of Brandon Banks. I would mind a look at him in the back end of the draft. We do need a returner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Anselmheifer said: https://www.silverandblackpride.com/2019/3/29/18287163/poor-pro-day-highly-regarded-pass-rush-prospect-jachai-polite-high-risk-nfl-draft-free-fall It's sad. His impact on the field was real but you will read that pretty early on I questioned his raw explosive ability. Just don't like that it's this bad... Somebody will give him a shot and he now really needs to prove everybody wrong. He is a baller. Shows his competitive spirit if he has hammy issues and still wants to compete (could question that decision by him/his agent). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilco_holland Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Metcalf just doesn't give me the good vibe. To much a physical specimen. I'm more a fan of the more technical WRs. I think he will struggle to be dominant in the nfl. But with WRs it's kinda 50/50. Some are a handful for DBs and some just can't become productive. Hardest position to really predict good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, wilco_holland said: Metcalf just doesn't give me the good vibe. To much a physical specimen. I'm more a fan of the more technical WRs. I think he will struggle to be dominant in the nfl. But with WRs it's kinda 50/50. Some are a handful for DBs and some just can't become productive. Hardest position to really predict good. I was all about him early on, and admittedly I think i was wrong. I don't have a good feeling about him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said: He's had an inexplicably terrible postseason. There is something bad going on with him, I would bet. Those are the numbers of a guy who hasn't trained at all. You have to question his commitment to the NFL at this point, and think about taking him off your board. Right. To me, seeing his running mate, Jefferson, also put up poor numbers... it was a little red flag for me. 2 hours ago, Owls0325 said: I've read reports that he's carrying an hamstring injury, however he's chosen to push through it which doesn't look like it's been the best thing for him to do in terms of his draft stock. So, this could absolutely be just a matter of a bad decision. I hope it is for his sake, though I don’t know how you correct that mistake beyond playing off your 6th round (or whatever) contract and then earning some cash. I guess interview well... oh wait, he blew that, didn’t he?. Pretty terrible bench number too... not sure what that came out of. Anyway, good luck to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 2 hours ago, wilco_holland said: It's sad. His impact on the field was real but you will read that pretty early on I questioned his raw explosive ability. Just don't like that it's this bad... Somebody will give him a shot and he now really needs to prove everybody wrong. He is a baller. Shows his competitive spirit if he has hammy issues and still wants to compete (could question that decision by him/his agent). I'm really tempted to think there's something else going on there. It's almost difficult for a top notch college player to be that bad in drills so important to his position when he had a good amount of production. In his film I didn't see a guy who was super explosive but he wasn't that bad; he had some explosion but it wasn't anything special. I'm wondering if either he's doing this stuff with a lingering injury or for some reason he just didn't prepare well for this process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 Ugh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
actorguy1 Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, HigSkin said: Ugh.... Granted, he did say later that Lock was Cutler with a much better attitude and was looking for coaching feedback to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowhunter Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 If he actually makes it, I could see Turpin signing a mega contract with Gatorade. Focused on watching Turpin Hydrate. Just a little Pharmacy humor (very little) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anselmheifer Posted March 30, 2019 Share Posted March 30, 2019 1 hour ago, HigSkin said: Ugh.... I actually think Winston is a fair comparison for Haskins. Winston, if he weren't a head case and a constant character concern, is a hell of an arm talent and was a very good college QB. I always use Matt Stafford as a comp for Lock because they both have incredible arm talent, but I Lock is more mobile than Stafford. I thought he was less mobile than Cutler, but he posted the better 40 time, 4.69 vs 4.77, and a better 3 cone, 7.01 vs 7.1. http://www.nfl.com/player/jaycutler/2495824/combine https://www.nfl.com/prospects/drew-lock?id=32194c4f-4337-4482-904c-a47f8df1d41b His stats were also better than Cutler's. https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jay-cutler-1.html https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/drew-lock-1.html Also, since Jachai Polite's terrible pro day, I have been picturing him against a player of Trent Williams' caliber. I just think he would be rag dolled in the run game. It would be so ridiculously fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardcoreZorn Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 I keep circling back to 3 names for the Skins at 15. Hockenson, White, and Burns. Those are 3 guys that could have huge impacts at critical needs and help us right away. Wildcards are if a QB falls or if we prioritize a guy like Jonah Williams who can ebentually slide to LT after filling a massive need at LG. Though I have doubts they take another guard that high and will shoot for a bigger playmaker instead. If those guys aren’t there and no other top 10 guys fall, I’d say we should trade down. Rounds 2-4 seem like the beef of this draft and we could really fill a lot of needs. I’m pretty much against for trading up for a QB at this point, with the caveat they love the guy and it takes minimal additional assets to go get them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 @HardcoreZorn I’m roughly in the same boat as you. As you said, regarding Williams, I like that potential to move out to tackle - either in a pinch, or to replace one of our current starters. That’s good value, IMO. It’s a fine line between selecting someone you think might be (or might become) special, versus trading back to (potentially?) fill more holes. The FO is in the unenviable position of needing both more starters, and better starters in various areas. In a draft as deep as this one, I’m more inclined to go for the quantity angle. Is drafting Hockenson better for the team than drafting Sternberger and Lindstrom (for example)? Is Burns better than Winovich and McLaurin? I believe the better compromise is probably to trade down and take a future high draft pick, along with a later pick this year. You add picks, but also allow yourself to (potentially) add more blue chippers in the following draft. Do this consistently, (if possible) and you’re hitting both angles - quality and quantity. I think... lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 13 hours ago, Brixtion_skin said: Outside of injury - any reason Davis has not been more prominent. The numbers look good. Not sure the extra body mas helps! Goodness. It's Laron Landry Part II. I guess he's had nothing to do, but hit the gym will injured, but I think he's gone way overboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted March 31, 2019 Author Share Posted March 31, 2019 18 hours ago, mistertim said: just don't see Metcalf as a guy who needs special scheming in the NFL, unless he manages to become much more gifted at cutting/getting in and out of breaks, gets quicker feet, and becomes a really good route runner. He's definitely no Julio. He's big, explosive, and fast in a straight line but not all that much beyond that IMO. Could he be a potential 1:1 press coverage issue? Sure. But that isn't insurmountable and defenses in the NFL can find ways to limit those kinds of 1 dimensional players. I don't think Metcalf will be a total bust as he is talented and seems like a good kid, but I also don't see him ever becoming an elite pro receiver. His physique, crazy 40 time, and vertical are overshadowing other glaring issues he has that IMO are far more important to whether he'll transition to the NFL game well. His cutups just don't impress me that much as a complete WR prospect. We're seeing different things then. To me he explodes out of his breaks and has threatening speed throughout the entire route. If he were stiff and had bad feet, he simply wouldn't be able to dog press coverage like he does. He is one of the most terrifying covers off the line in the class, and that is mostly because of explosive lateral steps and cuts. He gets whatever leverage he wants. I have no concerns about him being able to expand his tree and run short game and inside breaking stuff. Dudes will be chasing him on those concepts too because the inside release will be even easier for him. I think you're punishing him for his offensive system and assuming he can only run vertical routes because of some times in drills most wrs like him skip, and for what his role was for Ole Miss. They ran a cookie cutter spread offense where he almost always ran air raid routes from the same spot in the formation with similar releases and break points. This is an Ole Miss problem, not a DK problem. The Ole Miss OC/playcaller was not very good, and I'm not sure anyone did less with more than him this season. They limited all of their WRs and TEs. But just as relevant--Metcalf was a lightly used sophomore and Brown was an All American coming off a Biletnikoff finalist season where he set program records. They were always going to build their play designs around Brown, give him the short and intermediate stuff, and force feed him. Metcalf's breakout production was a surprise. Rounding off routes and lacking craftiness at the break are not unusual weaknesses for a lightly used RS sophomore. He can make huge strides as a route runner at the next level. He's one of the most dynamic athletes at the position in the last few drafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 10 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said: I keep circling back to 3 names for the Skins at 15. Hockenson, White, and Burns. Those are 3 guys that could have huge impacts at critical needs and help us right away. Wildcards are if a QB falls or if we prioritize a guy like Jonah Williams who can ebentually slide to LT after filling a massive need at LG. Though I have doubts they take another guard that high and will shoot for a bigger playmaker instead. If those guys aren’t there and no other top 10 guys fall, I’d say we should trade down. Rounds 2-4 seem like the beef of this draft and we could really fill a lot of needs. I’m pretty much against for trading up for a QB at this point, with the caveat they love the guy and it takes minimal additional assets to go get them. I find myself circling the same spot with different names. ( praying they don't trade up for a QB and wait till the 3rd round). I feel Hock and White would have been selected by 15. I bounce around and outside shot at Sweat do to his medicals, Burns and Bush. When they select if they were truly selecting on BPA there is no way the top names wouldn't be DT's and numerous OL and perhaps a DB. If Sweat is there I would have a hard time not pulling the trigger. 10 hours ago, skinny21 said: @HardcoreZorn I’m roughly in the same boat as you. As you said, regarding Williams, I like that potential to move out to tackle - either in a pinch, or to replace one of our current starters. That’s good value, IMO. It’s a fine line between selecting someone you think might be (or might become) special, versus trading back to (potentially?) fill more holes. The FO is in the unenviable position of needing both more starters, and better starters in various areas. In a draft as deep as this one, I’m more inclined to go for the quantity angle. Is drafting Hockenson better for the team than drafting Sternberger and Lindstrom (for example)? Is Burns better than Winovich and McLaurin? I believe the better compromise is probably to trade down and take a future high draft pick, along with a later pick this year. You add picks, but also allow yourself to (potentially) add more blue chippers in the following draft. Do this consistently, (if possible) and you’re hitting both angles - quality and quantity. I think... lol. If a decent trade back partner they should and will take it. Your trade down scenarios are very appealing and the only good way to fill gaps in the roster. Metcalf being so jacked scares me down the line with muscle tears and strains like experiences with Landry and Orakpo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted March 31, 2019 Share Posted March 31, 2019 On 3/30/2019 at 2:39 AM, stevemcqueen1 said: don't know what to make of Polite any more. He's a first round talent who seems to have significantly dropped due to off field concerns. Without knowing what those concerns are specifically, as well as knowing their validity, I can't project his range. Depending on the nature of his character concerns, I suppose he could be anything from a second round heist to undraftable. The latter would be a shame given how good he was this season. Totally agree. Polite has turned into one of the most baffling situations in years. Before his workouts I was hoping he would be available at 15, now....jeez who knows how far he drops. I don't think he falls past the 3rd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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