2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[DWinzit]

2 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Just listened to Kiper (either his podcast with McKshay or the one he did as a guest with Russillo).  He's heard McLeaurin could go late first.

That's quite a jump. I have seen a number mocks with Campbell going in the first. 

I would not go WR in the first, too many good options on day 2.

 

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Just listened to Kiper (either his podcast with McKshay or the one he did as a guest with Russillo).  He's heard McLeaurin could go late first.

I would not have guessed that high, but that was the one name for me that jumped off @stevemcqueen1‘s list.  I think 3rd latest, possibly latter half of the 2nd.  

2 hours ago, DWinzit said:

That's quite a jump. I have seen a number mocks with Campbell going in the first. 

I would not go WR in the first, too many good options on day 2.

 

I’be Ok with Harry and maybe Butler after a trade back, but I’m mostly with you.  

Presuming we draft 2 receivers, I keep coming back to whether we get an X first and then back to the well for a Z that can handle snaps in the slot, or vice versa.  I.e. do we focus on a replacement for Doctson first, or a guy that can back up (or even start over) both Quinn and Richardson.  

Gonna be interesting to see how things shake out.  

[bakedtater1]

We're getting closer to the draft..I'm getting excited.. when renegade made that threat about the Jets Redskins trade I believe the first thing that came to my mind was okay here's our first April fool's prank.. than thought that this could actually be possible.. that is something I could see happening.. I hope it don't let's get that clear.. I hope they stay put at 15 or even trade out of that spot and pick up extra picks but if wishes were fishes.. so i hope they stay put at 15 and go with the best player available...but either way we're into April now..darn near 3 weeks away is all..if anything is gonna happen I bet it's with in the week..

[JaxJoe]

16 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I would not have guessed that high, but that was the one name for me that jumped off @stevemcqueen1‘s list.  I think 3rd latest, possibly latter half of the 2nd.  

I’be Ok with Harry and maybe Butler after a trade back, but I’m mostly with you.  

Presuming we draft 2 receivers, I keep coming back to whether we get an X first and then back to the well for a Z that can handle snaps in the slot, or vice versa.  I.e. do we focus on a replacement for Doctson first, or a guy that can back up (or even start over) both Quinn and Richardson.  

Gonna be interesting to see how things shake out.  

We definitely need an X receiver. I think we can get away with our current Z of Richardson and Y of Quinn, but only if we had a legit X. Doctson hasn't shown to be that guy. I wish he was. 

 

A big(ger) fast receiver with good hands is likely going to be Metcalf or Harry who lead in that category. But I also have my sights on Parris Campbell at 6’0” and 205 lb and ran a 4.31 40 at the combine. He also had the greatest vertical jump at a whopping 40”; typically 3-4 inches higher than most.

 

And I completely agree about later round receivers with size and speed and production like Hakeem Butler and Emanual Hall. Heck, Jazz Ferguson is a big fast wideout that was very productive at a small school that could be had in the 5th round or later.

 

So, yeah, I think we should use our 1st on an elite edge or QB if either falls to us because there’s plenty of productive big fast X receivers to be had later. 

 

 

[mhd24]

My latest Mock for those who want trade downs:

 

1)  AZ-Murray
2)  SF-Bosa

3)  ****TRADE****Bills (Bills trade #9+#40 for #3)-Q. Williams (Bills trade up to get a much needed DT in McDermott's defense)

4)  Raiders-Allen (Needed edge rusher_

5)  TB-White (Kiper has said this is picking up steam)

6)  NYG-Sweat (I believe the rumors that they want Daniel Jones)

7)  Jags-Taylor (Cam Robinson is coming off a torn ACL)

8-Lions-Hockenson (Perfect fit for them even if they signed James in FA)

9)  Jets (from Bills)-Jonah Williams (A bit high, but he's versatile and they have to improve the o-line) 

10)  Denver-Lock (Think Elway likes him over Haskins)

11)  Bengals-Haskins (Will sit while Dalton is phased out)

12)  GB-Metcalf (WR is a huge need)
13)  Miami-Wilkins (Think he fits them as a culture setter.  They are tanking for Tua)

14)  ATL-Oliver (Easy pick for them as a penetrating DT)

15)  ****TRADE****Titans trade #19+#82 for #15+#153-Fant (Walker is 34 and coming off season ending injury.  TE is a huge need)

16)  Panthers-Ferrell (Fits them better versus Burns)

17)  Giants-Jones (They have been tied to him)

18)  Vikings-Ford (If he can't play RT, he'll slot in as G)

19)  ****TRADE****(GB trades #30+#75 for #19)-Bush (GB trades up to get Bush who would have gone to Pittsburgh at #20)

20)  Steelers-Brian Burns (Dupree is a FA and has been a dissapointment).

21)  Seattle-Abram (I think they want to trade down if they can.  They do it every year)

22)  Ravens-Hakeem Butler (Insane catch radius makes him a perfect fit for Lamar)

23)  Houston-Dillard (Lock they take o-line)

24)  Oakland-Greedy Williams (Corner is a huge need)

25)  Philly-Bradbury (Kelce probably retires at the end of the year)

26)  Indy-Baker (Fits their zone scheme)

27)  Oakland-Simmons (Will redshirt him this year.  Top 5 talent)

28)  Chargers-Lawrence (Run-stuffer is a huge need)

29)  KC-Gary (Testing traits don't match production)

30)  Redskins (from GB)-Henry (I believe Hoffman who says they like him)

31)  Rams-Murphy (Talib is near the end)

32)  NE-Smith (Replaces Gronk)

 

We end up with 4 third rounders along with our 2nd.  I'd use them to draft o-line, edge, MLB, TE, and S.

 

 

 

[RWJ]

6 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

My latest Mock for those who want trade downs:

 

30)  Redskins (from GB)-Henry (I believe Hoffman who says they like him)

 

 

We end up with 4 third rounders along with our 2nd.  I'd use them to draft o-line, edge, MLB, TE, and S.

 

 

 

Brain fart on my part.  Who is Henry?

[skinny21]

@mhd24  Took me a second, but you mean ‘Harry’ (for the Skins), right?

 

Love the trade downs and really like the Harry pickup.  Kudos on the work.  

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@mhd24  Took me a second, but you mean ‘Harry’ (for the Skins), right?

 

Love the trade downs and really like the Harry pickup.  Kudos on the work.  

That makes sense.  OK.  IF the Skins don't go QB at #15 overall, I would like to see them trade down a time or two. 

[skinny21]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

That makes sense.  OK.  IF the Skins don't go QB at #15 overall, I would like to see them trade down a time or two. 

Yeah, me too.  

My thinking on guys that might be available at 15:

White (highly doubt it) - Dallas has been a really good indication of what excellent ILB can get you.  I’d have trouble turning to a trade back If he’s available.  

Hockenson/Fant - love the players and what a well rounded TE could mean for the offense... just not sure I love the value (considering some of the TEs later in the draft).  

Murphy - Less of a need short term, but he’s a heck of a player, makes it easier to let Norman walk next year, and improving coverage gives our DL that much more of a chance to get home.  

Ford - Don’t seeing it happening, but he’d be a great add.  Depth and health of the tackles would still remain a major concern though.  

J. Williams - Solid pick (IMO) as he can start out at guard and he’s got a better chance at replacing one of our tackles down the line than Ford, even though Ford is likely to make the better guard.  

Sweat - I’d love to add a speed rusher.  Burns isn’t worth it to me because he’d be a situational rusher for us, Sweat is a better fit/value for us, I believe.  

Forgetting qb, that’s pretty much it, IMO.  

Essentially for me, it’s White (probably - really wish we knew what will happen with Foster), trade back, Ford/Williams/Murphy/Sweat... in that order. I’ll add that I won’t be mad if we landed Haskins or Lock as 1) they’d have a chance to sit a year, and 2) it’s such a premium position, I don’t mind taking the swing.  

 

All JMO of course.  

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, me too.  

My thinking on guys that might be available at 15:

White (highly doubt it) - Dallas has been a really good indication of what excellent ILB can get you.  I’d have trouble turning to a trade back If he’s available.  

Hockenson/Fant - love the players and what a well rounded TE could mean for the offense... just not sure I love the value (considering some of the TEs later in the draft).  

Murphy - Less of a need short term, but he’s a heck of a player, makes it easier to let Norman walk next year, and improving coverage gives our DL that much more of a chance to get home.  

Ford - Don’t seeing it happening, but he’d be a great add.  Depth and health of the tackles would still remain a major concern though.  

J. Williams - Solid pick (IMO) as he can start out at guard and he’s got a better chance at replacing one of our tackles down the line than Ford, even though Ford is likely to make the better guard.  

Sweat - I’d love to add a speed rusher.  Burns isn’t worth it to me because he’d be a situational rusher for us, Sweat is a better fit/value for us, I believe.  

Forgetting qb, that’s pretty much it, IMO.  

Essentially for me, it’s White (probably - really wish we knew what will happen with Foster), trade back, Ford/Williams/Murphy/Sweat... in that order. I’ll add that I won’t be mad if we landed Haskins or Lock as 1) they’d have a chance to sit a year, and 2) it’s such a premium position, I don’t mind taking the swing.  

 

All JMO of course.  

I like all the players you mention but I'd still trade down for extra picks especially if we can get an extra 1st round pick next year.  

[Anselmheifer]

9 hours ago, skinny21 said:

Yeah, me too.  

My thinking on guys that might be available at 15:

White (highly doubt it) - Dallas has been a really good indication of what excellent ILB can get you.  I’d have trouble turning to a trade back If he’s available.  

Hockenson/Fant - love the players and what a well rounded TE could mean for the offense... just not sure I love the value (considering some of the TEs later in the draft).  

Murphy - Less of a need short term, but he’s a heck of a player, makes it easier to let Norman walk next year, and improving coverage gives our DL that much more of a chance to get home.  

Ford - Don’t seeing it happening, but he’d be a great add.  Depth and health of the tackles would still remain a major concern though.  

J. Williams - Solid pick (IMO) as he can start out at guard and he’s got a better chance at replacing one of our tackles down the line than Ford, even though Ford is likely to make the better guard.  

Sweat - I’d love to add a speed rusher.  Burns isn’t worth it to me because he’d be a situational rusher for us, Sweat is a better fit/value for us, I believe.  

Forgetting qb, that’s pretty much it, IMO.  

Essentially for me, it’s White (probably - really wish we knew what will happen with Foster), trade back, Ford/Williams/Murphy/Sweat... in that order. I’ll add that I won’t be mad if we landed Haskins or Lock as 1) they’d have a chance to sit a year, and 2) it’s such a premium position, I don’t mind taking the swing.  

 

All JMO of course.  

I'd like White too, but I can't see any situation in which he falls, and we aren't trading up for a MLB. 

 

Does anyone else not see a lot of separation in this N'Keal Harry video? He looks like a bully, but I'm not sure how far that gets you in the NFL. People have compared him to Garcon, but Garcon was much faster. Catch radius also isn't great. For someone with 33" arms at the combine, he looks like he has short arms. Maybe he will be great. I've watched just one highlight video. I would really, really like a WR who can separate. Or who doesn't need to. I would be thrilled with Hakeem Butler. 

 

 

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

Does anyone else not see a lot of separation in this N'Keal Harry video? He looks like a bully, but I'm not sure how far that gets you in the NFL. People have compared him to Garcon, but Garcon was much faster. Catch radius also isn't great. For someone with 33" arms at the combine, he looks like he has short arms. Maybe he will be great. I've watched just one highlight video. I would really, really like a WR who can separate. Or who doesn't need to. I would be thrilled with Hakeem Butler.  

 

You're not going to find a lot of separation in his cut ups.  That plus the time it takes to release (related to lack of separation) are the two big flaws in his game.  He doesn't uncover as effortlessly as Metcalf and Butler and Hollywood because he doesn't have their speed.  But I do think he falls into the category of someone who doesn't need a lot of separation to produce.  He's a brute force WR in the school of DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen.  He wins off of strength and crafty route running and toughness.  He is an unusually powerful player at the position and his hand strength is rare.  He looks almost as strong as Metcalf and Metcalf is a runaway truck.

 

Garcon ran a 4.48 at his combine to Harry's 4.53.  That's not a huge difference, and Harry's time is actually better than Keenan Allen's 4.58 and Hopkins's 4.57.  Harry also lifted better and had a better vertical than Garcon and his broad jump was just a few inches shorter.  He's also probably two inches taller than Garcon, and 20 pounds heavier, which is significant.  I think I was wrong when I pegged Harry's upside at Pierre Garcon.  I think he has a chance to be a much better player and that his ceiling is actually closer to Allen or Hopkins.

 

I also think that Harry's route polish, effort as a blocker, and his consistent hands make him a good fit for our team.  I could see Jay burying Hakeem Butler for his rawness and his drops, much as he did to Doctson.  I also think Harry is the type of receiver who can thrive despite crap quarterbacking.  He's got a workhorse mentality and secures contested catches and overthrows.  We also just have a really ****ty history of drafting and developing WRs and I don't trust our team to successfully develop raw talent at the position.  Harry is a safer pick than Butler.

 

But I do think Butler is the bigger talent and that, with the right team, he can become a Mike Evans type player like you suggested.

 

One last thing, I think Metcalf, Butler, and Harry are easily the three best split end prospects in  the class, and that there is a huge dropoff to the next guys, who are all either guys with narrow skill sets (Campbell, Arcega-Whiteside), low upside players more suited to slot roles (Ridley, Harmon, etc.), or start from scratch projects (Hurd, Boykin, etc.).  If we want to get an X receiver and have a chance of starting him as a rookie, it's got to be either Metcalf, Harry, or Butler.

[method man]

30 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You're not going to find a lot of separation in his cut ups.  That plus the time it takes to release (related to lack of separation) are the two big flaws in his game.  He doesn't uncover as effortlessly as Metcalf and Butler and Hollywood because he doesn't have their speed.  But I do think he falls into the category of someone who doesn't need a lot of separation to produce.  He's a brute force WR in the school of DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen.  He wins off of strength and crafty route running and toughness.  He is an unusually powerful player at the position and his hand strength is rare.  He looks almost as strong as Metcalf and Metcalf is a runaway truck.

 

Garcon ran a 4.48 at his combine to Harry's 4.53.  That's not a huge difference, and Harry's time is actually better than Keenan Allen's 4.58 and Hopkins's 4.57.  Harry also lifted better and had a better vertical than Garcon and his broad jump was just a few inches shorter.  He's also probably two inches taller than Garcon, and 20 pounds heavier, which is significant.  I think I was wrong when I pegged Harry's upside at Pierre Garcon.  I think he has a chance to be a much better player and that his ceiling is actually closer to Allen or Hopkins.

 

I also think that Harry's route polish, effort as a blocker, and his consistent hands make him a good fit for our team.  I could see Jay burying Hakeem Butler for his rawness and his drops, much as he did to Doctson.  I also think Harry is the type of receiver who can thrive despite crap quarterbacking.  He's got a workhorse mentality and secures contested catches and overthrows.  We also just have a really ****ty history of drafting and developing WRs and I don't trust our team to successfully develop raw talent at the position.  Harry is a safer pick than Butler.

 

But I do think Butler is the bigger talent and that, with the right team, he can become a Mike Evans type player like you suggested.

 

One last thing, I think Metcalf, Butler, and Harry are easily the three best split end prospects in  the class, and that there is a huge dropoff to the next guys, who are all either guys with narrow skill sets (Campbell, Arcega-Whiteside), low upside players more suited to slot roles (Ridley, Harmon, etc.), or start from scratch projects (Hurd, Boykin, etc.).  If we want to get an X receiver and have a chance of starting him as a rookie, it's got to be either Metcalf, Harry, or Butler.

 

Do you think Isabella can play on the outside at the NFL level? Out of the receivers in this class, given his route running, polish and speed, I think he has as much star potential as anyone in the draft. I know he is learning the slot now but he should pick it up. If he does, he more upside than Welker, Crowder, Amendola, Beasley, Edelman and all the other stud slot receivers of the past 5-10 years given his straight line speed

 

Also the other thing this team should think about is drafting two guys in Day 2. Doctson is not on this team in 2020 and Richardson is probably not either. 

[Going Commando]

23 minutes ago, method man said:

 

Do you think Isabella can play on the outside at the NFL level? Out of the receivers in this class, given his route running, polish and speed, I think he has as much star potential as anyone in the draft. I know he is learning the slot now but he should pick it up. If he does, he more upside than Welker, Crowder, Amendola, Beasley, Edelman and all the other stud slot receivers of the past 5-10 years given his straight line speed

 

Also the other thing this team should think about is drafting two guys in Day 2. Doctson is not on this team in 2020 and Richardson is probably not either. 

 

No.  He's tiny and probably has no chance to beat an NFL press.  He's a slot guy who can maybe play some flanker if you motion him around.  I like him for what he is, but his skill set is fairly narrow.  Among the tiny receivers, he's not as good as Hollywood, but I think he's better than Mecole Hardman.

[Going Commando]

19 hours ago, mhd24 said:

 

Just listened to Kiper (either his podcast with McKshay or the one he did as a guest with Russillo).  He's heard McLeaurin could go late first.

 

I think that's a pretty significant overreaction to the Senior Bowl and combine.  I think McLaurin's a quintessential JAG.  He's just fast, but he's not quick or explosive off the line or in short areas.  He's not small, but he's not big either.  His play strength is marginal and he's not physical or tough.  He can't get hands off him and he gets taken for a ride when he tries to block for screens and runs.  His ball skills are crap.  His production is mediocre.  I think he's a ho-hum X who can make zone defenses pay with his long speed on vertical routes when they fall asleep on him.  But unless he's got some hidden run after catch ability that he didn't get a chance to demonstrate at Ohio State, that's all he really brings to the table.  I don't see anything close to first round talent in his cut ups.

[mistertim]

I agree that Harry doesn't get a ton of separation on his routes but he does run good routes and like @stevemcqueen1mentioned, he's a crafty route runner who wins more with physicality than pure "leave them in the dust" speed or ridiculous juke you out of your socks moves. TBH I don't think any of the top split end WRs in this draft (Metcalf, Harry, Butler) shine via their route running. Mectalf is just huge and fast in a straight line but ran a simple route tree and lacks change of direction quickness, Harry is super physical and has good change of direction but isn't super fast at the top end, and Butler has the crazy wingspan and makes circus catches but his route tree was also simple and he suffers from drops on routine passes. Out of the 3 I think Harry is the best out of the gate followed by Metcalf and then Butler.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Seems like White has a lot of hype leading into the draft, am seeing top 5 a lot.  I haven't paid a lot of attention to Devin Bush.  I watched his game versus Ohio State and wasn't that impressed.  It's not that he played poorly but he didn't get himself in that mix that much in that game.

 

Wonder if he's on the Redskins radar screen at all. I love what I read about Bush.  But I haven't watched him enough to land on my own opinion about him.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/04/01/nick-bosa-nfl-draft-odell-beckham-jarvis-landry-browns?utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb&utm_source=twitter.com

2. The NFL is higher on LSU linebacker Devin White than you might think. He’s considered as good or better than Bears’ Roquan Smith was last year (better measurables, perhaps a tick behind on instincts), and it wouldn’t be surprising if the Raiders took him with the fourth pick or if the Buccaneers drafted him fifth. The last off ball linebacker to go in the top five? Wake Forest’s Aaron Curry, taken fourth overall by Seattle in 2009. And the two before that were AJ Hawk (fifth, 2006) and LaVar Arrington (second, 2000).

3. And White going that high would help Michigan LB Devin Bush, who’s got a good shot at being drafted in the top 15, despite being a smallish prospect for his position.

[Going Commando]

Saying Metcalf is just huge and fast is underselling him.  First off, he's a beast deep threat who might as well be getting free releases off press coverage and who can circus catch and put the fear of God in DBs when he's driving down field or running after the catch.  But putting his physical traits into context: he's as big and powerful as a linebacker, runs as fast and leaps as well as the most athletic corners in the NFL, and also has the arms of an offensive tackle.  When he steps foot on an NFL field, he will be the best athlete at his position in the NFL. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

I also think that Harry's route polish, effort as a blocker, and his consistent hands make him a good fit for our team...I also think Harry is the type of receiver who can thrive despite crap quarterbacking.  He's got a workhorse mentality and secures contested catches and overthrows.  We also just have a really ****ty history of drafting and developing WRs and I don't trust our team to successfully develop raw talent at the position.  Harry is a safer pick than Butler.

 

 

Weeks ago, I did my take on Harry on this thread with some clips.  And I liked him.  Hoffman says he's their #1 fav receiver in the draft.  He's not mine.  But I like him and can see why they like him. If they are looking for a WR who can hit the ground running and contribute -- Harry might be the right guy with this group of weak armed QBs.   He is Mr. YAC in the flat.  He can help the run game via his run blocking.  He plays special teams.  He can play in the slot or on the outside.   He might be the most well rounded WR in this draft that you can find for this team. 

 

In particular if they acquire Rosen, I think you need strong dudes who can win on contested throws.  Harry would be that guy.  Butler, too.   I've seen multiple draft geeks compare Harry to Michael Thomas. 

 

 

 

 

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

 

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Saying Metcalf is just huge and fast is underselling him.  First off, he's a beast deep threat who might as well be getting free releases off press coverage and who can circus catch and put the fear of God in DBs when he's driving down field or running after the catch.  But putting his physical traits into context: he's as big and powerful as a linebacker, runs as fast and leaps as well as the most athletic corners in the NFL, and also has the arms of an offensive tackle.  When he steps foot on an NFL field, he will be the best athlete at his position in the NFL. 

 

I honestly just don't really see it in the film. He seems like one of those guys who times faster than he plays. He ran a total of about 3 routes in college and even mediocre DBs were able to handle him 1 on 1 and stay in his pocket way more often than they should have for a guy who's so highly valued and had such ridiculous speed numbers.

 

Watch his cutup vs Greedy. Greedy IMO is a good but not great prospect who has somewhat stiff hips for a CB but he completely shut down Metcalf and it didn't look like it took a ton of effort. He stayed with him step for step on pretty much every vertical route in the game (which was about 85% of his routes). Metcalf's main move seemed to consist of some stutter steps and then running to the outside and Greedy was never fooled and never lost him.

 

I mentioned before that Metcalf's moves look like those of a guy who has watched other WRs successfully do it and is trying to emulate it but doesn't really understand how it works. He consistently made breaks too early, took way too many extra steps when breaking or juking, and he very rarely actually successfully flipped his CB's hips and then went the other way. 

 

He's a physical specimen but I don't see much other than that. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I'm mentally preparing for a huge reach in Daniel Jones or not having a 1st round pick the next 3 years because we traded up for someone we're all gonna be pissed about. 

[mh86]

15 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I'm mentally preparing for a huge reach in Daniel Jones or not having a 1st round pick the next 3 years because we traded up for someone we're all gonna be pissed about. 

 

You may be right, but I'm hoping we either trade back from 15 or draft BPA and then go receiver in the second. I would love N'keal Harry as I think he is the least likely to be a bust at the position and can produce in any offense right away. 

[mistertim]

I believe Jones is going to go later than people think. I have a feeling that the pundits are inflating his value but that NFL scouts probably aren't. 

[Nassonbama]

I believe skins skins need to draft best available player first few rounds , maybe trade back then grad shurmur from vandy later in draft. Watched him his whole career. He is the real deal. Belive he would be a good development for future. Dont waste a first round pick on a qb this year, wait and grab tua or fromm next year. They are both franchise type qb s. Not any franchise guys at qb in this class but maybe a few developmental kind of guys.  Be smart and build the roster through the draft then reach high to get a qb next year. Thats the best plan......