2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Anselmheifer]

We should not be in win now mode in terms of the draft. Our team sucks because we always make short sighted moves. Letting 27yo Kirk go and trading away a 3rd and a slot CB for a 34yo QB, for instance. Ridiculous. 

 

We need to be figuring out what is best for this franchise for the next 10 years, and doing that. BPA, not BPA that can contribute this year. 

 

I agree with the idea idea that we are going to trade for Rosen and draft a pass catcher. My guess is that we grab Marquise Brown. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Love Hockenson but I have a lot of company on that front.  I thought I was the biggest Jace Sternberger fan but just listened to a Greg Cosell podcast and he has him ranked as the 2nd best TE in this class.  Wow.  I wouldn't go that far but I do think the dude is going to be really good. 

 

https://thedraftnetwork.com/articles/6-pack-thursday--marino-s-final-2019-tight-end-rankings-and-takeaways

 

TJ HOCKENSON IS TE1

This crop of tight ends is outstanding, but the one at the top is special. Every NFL team wants to have a quality tight end, but very few of them are actual difference-makers. Hockenson has the upside to become a game-changer.

What's unique about Hockenson is that he offers all the qualities of a classic, throwback tight end combined with the traits needed to excel as a modern day flex weapon. Hockenson can handle blocking in the trenches while also making plays as a receiver. He can be used in the slot or even be asked to stretch the field and Hockenson has the ability to be dynamic. He's a legitimate three-level receiving option that can line up anywhere in the formation, while also providing dominant blocking ability.

I believe Hockenson can be a star in the NFL along the lines of what Kansas City has in Travis Kelce and the 49ers feature in George Kittle.

 

KAHALE WARRING IS THE SLEEPER YOU WANT

Warring played literally every sport imaginable in high school, lettering in water polo, basketball, cross country, swimming, soccer and tennis but managed just one season of football. He walked on the football program at San Diego State in 2015 and by 2017, he was a scholarship athlete.

When watching Warring’s tape, his competitive demeanor and natural athletic ability pops. He has the body composition of a guy that has been competing athletically for a long time and I am excited to see how he develops with football as his primary focus. He has every trait needed to succeed as a versatile weapon that produces as a blocker and receiver.

 

JACE STERNBERGER’S CEILING

After two seasons in Kansas where he inexplicably caught a total of one pass for five yards, Sternberger turned to the JUCO ranks before landing with the Aggies where he put together a sensational season.

Sternberger has immense upside as a receiver in the NFL. His route running skills, ability to create after the catch, athleticism and ball skills afford him the ability to attack all three levels of the field with potent playmaking upside. He is dominant when attacking the seam and has an uncanny ability to win on out breaking routes.

He is a highly versatile receiving threat that should be a productive NFL starter that presents considerable matchup problems for opponents.

 

IRV SMITH IS GOOD… BUT

I like Smith a good bit and believe he is deserving of a second round selection. His production as both a blocker and receiver for Alabama in 2018 was outstanding and he profiles as a quality starter in the NFL. With that said, in a deep tight end class, there’s no need to reach or get over-aggressive in a trade up for Smith.

With both Iowa tight ends expected off the board, the New England Patriots at pick No. 32 seems like a natural landing spot for Smith. A tight end-needy team that fills other needs with its first round pick, should not panic and feel the need to get in front of the Patriots to make sure it lands Smith. I’ve been asked quite a bit lately about that possibility and I’d much rather opt for Sternberger or Warring on Day Two than to part with assets in a trade up for Smith. He isn't that dynamic in terms of acceleration and separation quickness to warrant a big move up the order.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

We should not be in win now mode in terms of the draft. Our team sucks because we always make short sighted moves. Letting 27yo Kirk go and trading away a 3rd and a slot CB for a 34yo QB, for instance. Ridiculous. 

 

We need to be figuring out what is best for this franchise for the next 10 years, and doing that. BPA, not BPA that can contribute this year. 

 

I agree with the idea idea that we are going to trade for Rosen and draft a pass catcher. My guess is that we grab Marquise Brown. 

 

I can see that.  Marquise was my first draft crush last year as for me relentless touting a player.   That injury though makes me pause.   I wouldn't take him at 15.  But IMO if he bounces back from that injury the dude will be a star if he can stay healthy.   

 

Right now I believe they are in the process of selling season tickets and I doubt that's going well.  Tough to sell another season of Bruce Allen and selling Colt or Keenum as the QB among other things.  Nothing beats a QB as for fan excitement.   And this team doesn't have anyone exciting that sells tickets as for the passing game.  Marquise likely changes it.  

 

Marquise right now isn't my top choice by a long shot at 15.  I might feel differently if he didn't have the injury.  My concern about him is does he hold up at that size in the NFL.    But if they can get him later in the first via a trade down and his medicals check out then I can roll with Marquise.  Part of the reason why I went to the Orange Bowl game is because I want to see the dude play in person but alas he barely did and wasn't right.

 

Marquise IMO isn't a one trick pony.  He can do the underneath routes just like a Parris Campbell and is explosive on that front.  And he has the D. Jax deep ball thing cooking for him, too.  If he was healthy, some thought he'd run in the 4.2's at the combine. 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 3/31/2019 at 8:44 AM, actorguy1 said:

At 15 for me the wish list is as follows:

 

Only in my dreams:

1.Nick Bosa

2.Josh Allen

3.Devin White

4.Kyler Murray

 

Possible and would be excited:

1. Jawaan Taylor

2. T.J. Hockenson

3. Montez Sweat

4. Brian Burns

5. Rashan Gary

 

More likely and would be ok with:

1. Dwayne Haskins

2. Drew Lock

3. D.K. Metcalf

4. Devin Bush

5. Clelin Ferrel

 

Anyone else and I would prefer a trade down. However, that is 14 players, and it's not even including the DT's (Ed Oliver and Quinnen Williams). So one of those will be available

 

Some thoughts on your list:

 

Only in my dreams:

1.Nick Bosa: Check

2.Josh Allen: Check

3.Devin White: Check

4.Kyler Murray: I'd rather have Rosen considering the cost of acquiring him.

 

Possible and would be excited:

1. Jawaan Taylor: Check

2. T.J. Hockenson: Check:

3. Montez Sweat: Check

4. Brian Burns: Kinda Check

 

More likely and would be ok with:

1. Dwayne Haskins: Check

2. Drew Lock: Hard Pass

3. D.K. Metcalf: Hard Pass

4. Devin Bush: Check

5. Clelin Ferrel: Check

 

Player added that is 40/60 going to be there at 15:

6. Jonah Williams: I would vault Williams into slot 4 of your Possible/Would be excited)

 

 

Via trade down (in order of preference)

1. AJ Brown

2. Noah Fant

3. Christian Wilkins

4. Cody Ford

5. DeAndre Baker

 

Top 10 possible Guy's I would toss into the group that you didn't:

Quinnen Williams

Ed Oliver

Andre Dillard

Jeffrey Simons

All these guys should be gone when we pick, so I imagine that's why you didn't list any of them.

 

 

 

 

[actorguy1]

15 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

Some thoughts on your list:

 

Only in my dreams:

1.Nick Bosa: Check

2.Josh Allen: Check

3.Devin White: Check

4.Kyler Murray: I'd rather have Rosen considering the cost of acquiring him.

 

Possible and would be excited:

1. Jawaan Taylor: Check

2. T.J. Hockenson: Check:

3. Montez Sweat: Check

4. Brian Burns: Kinda Check

 

More likely and would be ok with:

1. Dwayne Haskins: Check

2. Drew Lock: Hard Pass

3. D.K. Metcalf: Hard Pass

4. Devin Bush: Check

5. Clelin Ferrel: Check

 

Player added that is 40/60 going to be there at 15:

6. Jonah Williams: I would vault Williams into slot 4 of your Possible/Would be excited)

 

 

Via trade down (in order of preference)

1. AJ Brown

2. Noah Fant

3. Christian Wilkins

4. Cody Ford

5. DeAndre Baker

 

Top 10 possible Guy's I would toss into the group that you didn't:

Quinnen Williams

Ed Oliver

Andre Dillard

Jeffrey Simons

All these guys should be gone when we pick, so I imagine that's why you didn't list any of them.

 

 

 

 

I did mention that my list did not include the DT's  of Williams and Oliver. Jeffrey Simmons tore his ACL in November so possibly out most of the year and the video of him hitting a woman while in college will definitely drop him down. Not sure I want him though.

[Bonez3]

I wouldn't be upset at all if we went TE/WR... Not to bring up 2009 memories. 

 

But if somehow we could land Hockenson and M. Brown, that would be 2 instant playmakers. Still think we're 2 LBs away (ILB, Edge) from a playoff caliber D, but those 2 pick would be very welcomed. 

 

Oh yea... 3rd rounder for Rosen

[Burgold]

Speaking only for myself, I don't think there's a draft choice out there that would impact my choice to buy season tickets or a ticket to a game. Rosen wouldn't. Haskins wouldn't. I don't think a tight end, wide receiver, or edge rusher would.

 

There's just not a single player in the draft or that they could trade for that would do it. Now, a smart draft that began paying dividends would catch my attention, but there is not a splash move splashy enough to change the 'skins narrative. Not saying we couldn't draft a transcendent or franchise altering player, but it isn't obvious and won't be obvious from the moment the pick or trade is made. 

[The Consigliere]

On 4/2/2019 at 8:17 AM, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

You're not going to find a lot of separation in his cut ups.  That plus the time it takes to release (related to lack of separation) are the two big flaws in his game.  He doesn't uncover as effortlessly as Metcalf and Butler and Hollywood because he doesn't have their speed.  But I do think he falls into the category of someone who doesn't need a lot of separation to produce.  He's a brute force WR in the school of DeAndre Hopkins and Keenan Allen.  He wins off of strength and crafty route running and toughness.  He is an unusually powerful player at the position and his hand strength is rare.  He looks almost as strong as Metcalf and Metcalf is a runaway truck.

 

Garcon ran a 4.48 at his combine to Harry's 4.53.  That's not a huge difference, and Harry's time is actually better than Keenan Allen's 4.58 and Hopkins's 4.57.  Harry also lifted better and had a better vertical than Garcon and his broad jump was just a few inches shorter.  He's also probably two inches taller than Garcon, and 20 pounds heavier, which is significant.  I think I was wrong when I pegged Harry's upside at Pierre Garcon.  I think he has a chance to be a much better player and that his ceiling is actually closer to Allen or Hopkins.

 

I also think that Harry's route polish, effort as a blocker, and his consistent hands make him a good fit for our team.  I could see Jay burying Hakeem Butler for his rawness and his drops, much as he did to Doctson.  I also think Harry is the type of receiver who can thrive despite crap quarterbacking.  He's got a workhorse mentality and secures contested catches and overthrows.  We also just have a really ****ty history of drafting and developing WRs and I don't trust our team to successfully develop raw talent at the position.  Harry is a safer pick than Butler.

 

But I do think Butler is the bigger talent and that, with the right team, he can become a Mike Evans type player like you suggested.

 

One last thing, I think Metcalf, Butler, and Harry are easily the three best split end prospects in  the class, and that there is a huge dropoff to the next guys, who are all either guys with narrow skill sets (Campbell, Arcega-Whiteside), low upside players more suited to slot roles (Ridley, Harmon, etc.), or start from scratch projects (Hurd, Boykin, etc.).  If we want to get an X receiver and have a chance of starting him as a rookie, it's got to be either Metcalf, Harry, or Butler.

 

Keenan Allen suffered a serious injury late in his draft season and it basically scuttled his combine. Before the injury he was viewed as a first round talent. He should've fired his agent for not letting him Corey Davis the combine/Pro Day. If he had, he would have probably gone top 20. Chargers got a known top 10-20 talent in round 3 because people didn't take in the impact of his injury on his combine. 

 

Needless to say, I think you're totally wrong on your last paragraph point. There is HUGE disagreement on valuations of the top WR's:

 

Metcalf: A ton of concern about stiffness/lack of agility, spending more time in college hurt than healthy (could it be all the working out?) and the most limited route tree of a top prospect ever. I love the blood lines, and the explosion in his game, hate the injury history and the lack of agility.

 

N'Keal Harry: Beating press coverage is a concern, as is separation.

 

AJ Brown: Is he a pure slot guy or is he the best prospect in the class (I'm tempted to say the latter).

 

Hakeem Butler: If he is the monster some think he is (I've heard NFL brass are not in agreement about him being the ultimate stud), why on earth did he do literally nothing until he was an overage prospect? What, the greatness of Alan Lazard just kept him down? There is a remarkably correlated success node between breakout age in college and success in the pro's, I went over it a few months ago and basically about 3 of the top 30 WR's in the NFL had a poor breakout age. Virtually every single successful WR in the league showed it early. Like 90% or nearly so. Not good that he took forever to break out. 

 

Tier 2 has a couple of guys worth considering jumping into tier 1:

 

Andy Isabella: Athletic freak, hugely productive, did it small school style and killed it when playing legit competition (George, Mississippi State etc)

 

JJ Arcega-Whiteside: Quality 40, mediocre explosion drills at his pro day. His dominator (market share) and breakout age are good though (86th percentile and 74th percentile respectively, very good)

 

Kelvin Harmon: That combine was absolutely freaking hideous. But a little known fact is that combine drills matter far more for RB prospects than WR prospects. Keenan Allen was an example you mentioned, Juju Smith Schuster is another. Problem is, unless Allen and Schuster, who broke out as virtual High School kids, Harmon's breakout age is late, and his market share #'s are middle of the road.  He looks like a bust right now. I could still see him turn into a miraculous Anquan Boldin type, but he would have to come at a HUGE discount. 

 

Deebo Samuel: So smooth, so sound, little sense of him busting, seems a ready made starter at the next level. 

 

A few other names:

 

Parris Campbell: athletic freak in the Curtis Samuel mold.

 

Miles Boykin: Fantastic combine. Can his lack of production be entirely traced to the hideous performance of Notre Dame QB's while he was there (a la OBJ and Jarvis Landry at LSU?)

 

Marquise Brown: A favorite of a ton of people

 

Personally I would tier it:

 

There's a lot of interesting WR's in the class, but the only one's really lacking in any warts are Brown and Isabella. Every other guy has something or multiple something's wrong with him as a prospect, so for me, declaring a clear top 3, especially when all 3 of your top 3 are deeply flawed, is a stretch. We'll see how it plays out career wise. Personally, I think the best way to look at them would be this:

 

Ceiling to Floor:

Tier 1

1. DK Metcalf 

2. Hakeem Butler

3. N'Keal Harry

4. AJ Brown 

Tier 2:

5. Andy Isabella 

 

Tier 3:

6. Arcega-Whiteside

7.M. Brown

8. K. Harmon

9. D. Samuel

 

Tier 4:

10. P. Campbell

11. M. Boykin

12. J. Hurd

 

Highest Floor:

1. AJ Brown

 

Tier 2:

2. Andy Isabella

3. D. Samuel

 

Tier 3:

4. N'Keal Harry

5 Hakeem Butler

6. Arcega-Whiteside

7. M. Brown

 

Tier 4:

8. DK Metcalf

9. Kelvin Harmon

10. P. Campbell

 

That probably covers it for me. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/2/2019 at 8:28 AM, method man said:

 

Do you think Isabella can play on the outside at the NFL level? Out of the receivers in this class, given his route running, polish and speed, I think he has as much star potential as anyone in the draft. I know he is learning the slot now but he should pick it up. If he does, he more upside than Welker, Crowder, Amendola, Beasley, Edelman and all the other stud slot receivers of the past 5-10 years given his straight line speed

 

Also the other thing this team should think about is drafting two guys in Day 2. Doctson is not on this team in 2020 and Richardson is probably not either. 

 

Played 2/3's of the time outside for UMASS if memory serves from the data. Yes he can play outside, but he's best moved around. 

[Poindexter]

I think we stay put at #15.  I would be happy with any of these prospects. 

 

Josh Allen

Rashan Gary

Devin White

Quinnen Williams

DK Metcalf

Greedy Williams

Nick Bosa

Hakeem Butler

Byron Murphy

Kyler Murray

Jeffrey Simmons

Cody Ford

Jonah Williams

Drew Lock

Jawaan Taylor

Ed Oliver

Dwayne Haskins

[HigSkin]

Hmmmm....

 

 

 

[HigSkin]

 

[cober]

7 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

. Letting 27yo Kirk go and trading away a 3rd and a slot CB for a 34yo QB, for instance. Ridiculous. 

 

 

Wow so Kirk aged 3 years in one season   he is 30 years old. Will be 31 at start next season. He is not some spring chicken. And he obviously did not wish to be a member of the Redskins. So let it go. Not the anyone fault ....  His team did not even make the play off even tho it is loaded with talent. If his team does not make it this year. I pretty sure he will be out a job. 

[method man]

6 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Hmmmm....

 

 

 

 

That really only leaves EDGE unless someone like a Devin White slips. No elite secondary guys in this draft and we dont need DLs

[actorguy1]

"The unknown is important to the league this year, because a third network, ABC, will do the draft live. Just like ABC wouldn’t want the result of “The Bachelor” to surface two weeks before the climax of the show, ABC certainly won’t want leakage on Arizona’s plans for the top pick (and for presumed jettisoned quarterback Josh Rosen) before 8 p.m. ET on April 25. We’ll see whether the Cards, and coach Kliff “Done Deal” Kingsbury, can keep a lid on their plans. They’ll risk the wrath of Roger Goodell if they leak."

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay goes watch out for Parris Campbell in the 2nd and in another tweet said he doesn't think they will take down and in the same segment below said they won't have their 2nd rounder because he will be used for Rosen. 

 

These predictions are bold in nature, so leave preconceived notions at the hangar before stepping on the aircraft. 

 

5) They won’t take a WR at 15 - There isn’t anybody that good. The guys that killed it at the Combine don’t have the tape, and the guys with the great tape didn’t kill it at the Combine. One former NFL GM explained that when the receiver run starts, the Redskins should be in a good position in the second round to get somebody that can help right away. Watch out for Ohio State’s Parris Campbell in round two. 

4) Three of the first four picks will be offense - The Redskins know they need help at receiver, guard and tight end in addition to help all over the defense. But there are a number of potential starters at positions of need on the offensive side of the football during Friday night’s picks. Bruce Allen and the Redskins brass currently hold three selections in the second and third rounds, and it would be zero surprise if those three picks address needs on offense. The 2019 WR group isn't top heavy, but it has a lot of good value on Friday night. Same with the interior offensive line and tight end.

 

Bonus Prediction: The Redskins are drafting a tight end - When Jay Gruden spoke at the NFL League Meetings about how limited his offense became because of his combination of tight ends, fans should have been paying attention. The 'Skins have more money invested at the tight end position than any other team in the NFL, and if the team can grab a young player on a rookie deal, Vernon Davis' contract could become a salary cap casualty.  

3) They will take defense at 15 - The Redskins desperately need an edge rusher to pair opposite Ryan Kerrigan and have a good chance at a potential Pro Bowl sack guy here. That’s the goal. If not, the talent available at linebacker or corner presents more than what will be available offensively. Unless TJ Hockenson somehow lasts to 15. If the Iowa tight end makes it to 15, the Redskins will take him. He could directly answer Gruden's conundrum about having a tight end that can block or get open in the pass game. Right now, the tendency to use Jeremy Sprinkle in run situations and Reed and/or Davis in pass situations is a clear detriment to Washington's offense.  

2) No quarterback drafted - The Redskins aren’t taking Drew Lock, Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins. They’re not taking Will Grier. They’re not taking a late-round QB. You’ll see why next. 

1) No second-round pick - The Redskins won’t have a second-round pick because it will be included in a trade for Josh Rosen. A second this year and a third in 2020, with maybe an additional fifth from 2019. The team holds three of them. Rosen for a collection of picks, while keeping the 15th overall pick and another selection in the third round, would be a great way to add a QB of the future in Washington. Plus, it could still let the 'Skins get edge rush help in the first round and a WR, TE or guard in the third. 

Bonus Bonus Prediction - Despite seemingly being loaded at the RB and tackle positions, Washington makes late round picks at both spots. The team has three fifth-round picks and two seventh-round picks. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-arent-taking-wr-first-round-and-5-more-bold-2019-draft-predictions

 

I've said this long ago because it's obvious heck they will take a pass rusher at 15.  The most obvious candidates are Burns or Ferrell. One of both should be available.  The idea that they'd take Hockenson if he falls -- I love that.  Finlay could be wrong.  But Keim has said similar things.  It makes sense.

 

[mhd24]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay goes watch out for Parris Campbell in the 2nd and in another tweet said he doesn't think they will take down and in the same segment below said they won't have their 2nd rounder because he will be used for Rosen. 

 

These predictions are bold in nature, so leave preconceived notions at the hangar before stepping on the aircraft. 

 

5) They won’t take a WR at 15 - There isn’t anybody that good. The guys that killed it at the Combine don’t have the tape, and the guys with the great tape didn’t kill it at the Combine. One former NFL GM explained that when the receiver run starts, the Redskins should be in a good position in the second round to get somebody that can help right away. Watch out for Ohio State’s Parris Campbell in round two. 

4) Three of the first four picks will be offense - The Redskins know they need help at receiver, guard and tight end in addition to help all over the defense. But there are a number of potential starters at positions of need on the offensive side of the football during Friday night’s picks. Bruce Allen and the Redskins brass currently hold three selections in the second and third rounds, and it would be zero surprise if those three picks address needs on offense. The 2019 WR group isn't top heavy, but it has a lot of good value on Friday night. Same with the interior offensive line and tight end.

 

Bonus Prediction: The Redskins are drafting a tight end - When Jay Gruden spoke at the NFL League Meetings about how limited his offense became because of his combination of tight ends, fans should have been paying attention. The 'Skins have more money invested at the tight end position than any other team in the NFL, and if the team can grab a young player on a rookie deal, Vernon Davis' contract could become a salary cap casualty.  

3) They will take defense at 15 - The Redskins desperately need an edge rusher to pair opposite Ryan Kerrigan and have a good chance at a potential Pro Bowl sack guy here. That’s the goal. If not, the talent available at linebacker or corner presents more than what will be available offensively. Unless TJ Hockenson somehow lasts to 15. If the Iowa tight end makes it to 15, the Redskins will take him. He could directly answer Gruden's conundrum about having a tight end that can block or get open in the pass game. Right now, the tendency to use Jeremy Sprinkle in run situations and Reed and/or Davis in pass situations is a clear detriment to Washington's offense.  

2) No quarterback drafted - The Redskins aren’t taking Drew Lock, Daniel Jones or Dwayne Haskins. They’re not taking Will Grier. They’re not taking a late-round QB. You’ll see why next. 

1) No second-round pick - The Redskins won’t have a second-round pick because it will be included in a trade for Josh Rosen. A second this year and a third in 2020, with maybe an additional fifth from 2019. The team holds three of them. Rosen for a collection of picks, while keeping the 15th overall pick and another selection in the third round, would be a great way to add a QB of the future in Washington. Plus, it could still let the 'Skins get edge rush help in the first round and a WR, TE or guard in the third. 

Bonus Bonus Prediction - Despite seemingly being loaded at the RB and tackle positions, Washington makes late round picks at both spots. The team has three fifth-round picks and two seventh-round picks. 

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/redskins-arent-taking-wr-first-round-and-5-more-bold-2019-draft-predictions

 

I've said this long ago because it's obvious heck they will take a pass rusher at 15.  The most obvious candidates are Burns or Ferrell. One of both should be available.  The idea that they'd take Hockenson if he falls -- I love that.  Finlay could be wrong.  But Keim has said similar things.  It makes sense.

 

 

Yeah, if we stay at 15, then edge is going to be the pick IMO.  Peter King said why trade the 2nd when no one seems to want to offer anything more than a 3rd?  Say, we trade the 2nd.  I'd still want to trade down if we can, but would understand taking Ferrell/Burns.  If we could trade down to Tennessee (Who needs DT(s) and TE(s) (Oliver and Fant being potentially available), then we could still get one of Ferrell and Burns if we went down to 19.  Panthers probably take Ferrell at 16, Giants take QB, LB, or RT with 17 (assuming they take edge at 6), Vikings 100% take o-line, and we get Burns/Ferrell at 19.

 

[DWinzit]

34 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay goes watch out for Parris Campbell in the 2nd and in another tweet said he doesn't think they will take down and in the same segment below said they won't have their 2nd rounder because he will be used for Rosen. 

 

I've said this long ago because it's obvious heck they will take a pass rusher at 15.  The most obvious candidates are Burns or Ferrell. One of both should be available.  The idea that they'd take Hockenson if he falls -- I love that.  Finlay could be wrong.  But Keim has said similar things.  It makes sense.

 

Campbell, Brown and Isabella are the 3 I see can best spread the field. Campbell might be the most gifted and have the most unlocked potential due to the way he was and wasn't used. 

 

I agree on Hock and Burns, I am sketchy on Ferrell. I feel some of his numbers were due to his surrounding teammates talent level. I will still keep hopes up Sweat will fall but it's doubtful.  One other name I might add is Bush. He is a value at that point and adds needed speed and range on that side of the ball.

[Skinsinparadise]

Just listened to Cooley, his take on some prospects

 

He loves Hockenson (makes sense but interesting to me that his initial take was pause about him but I gather he watched more film

He likes Jace Sternberger

He doesn't like Noah Fant

He loves Dalton Risner

He doesn't like Metcalf -- thinks he's a faster version of Doctson and a limited receiver

He likes AJ Brown

He likes M. Sweat

He likes Parris Campbell

 

He hasn't watched a bunch of players still

[PlayAction]

16 hours ago, Anselmheifer said:

Our team sucks because we always make short sighted moves. Letting 27yo Kirk go and trading away a 3rd and a slot CB for a 34yo QB, for instance. Ridiculous. 

 

We need to be figuring out what is best for this franchise for the next 10 years, and doing that. BPA, not BPA that can contribute this year. 

 

I agree with the idea idea that we are going to trade for Rosen and draft a pass catcher. My guess is that we grab Marquise Brown. 

 

The BPA for the second round pick may be Josh Rosen.  But, yes I agree that "win now" is not a good philosophy for this team.  I disagree that letting Kirk go was a bad decision.  He was never worth that contract.  The error was trading the 3rd and slot CB for a 34 yo QB.  Hindsight is 20-20 though.  If Smith had been as good as hoped we probably would be saying the trade was worth it.  The 3rd round pick doesn't always pan out and Fuller may have regressed with the Chiefs.  Still, a well run team would never have gotten into this position in the first place. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

The BPA for the second round pick may be Josh Rosen.  But, yes I agree that "win now" is not a good philosophy for this team....The error was trading the 3rd and slot CB for a 34 yo QB.  Hindsight is 20-20 though.  

 

IMO its not that hindsight is 20-20 at least not for all.  I hated the Alex Smith trade (and I wasn't alone on that) when it happened.  I wanted a young QB back then and said so before they made that trade and ironically called out a trade for Alex as worse case scenario before it went down.   As for the other QB, it didn't have to be IMO 28 million or bust.  They had previous opportunities to get it done cheaper.  But it is what it is. 

 

As to where they are right now, IMO they are likely screwed if they don't make a move.  They have taken IMO poor and short sighted risks at the QB spot and its blown up on them.  And its tough to have hope without a QB in the fold.  But at this point its spoiled milk and irrelevant IMO so the question is what's next.

 

Sheehan said today he heard that the season ticket renewals aren't going well.  Cooley who works for the team said its absolutely imperative that they land a young QB this year to give some hope.  So here we are.  I am not saying you are saying otherwise.  Just saying I think they might be feeling some desperation now.

 

The idea that Jay would only acquire a QB in this draft if he can help them win now IMO is absurd if that means they like a prospect better than another but would take the inferior one if they felt that QB was more polished.  Not saying that's the case but Jay is implying that point is a possibility when he insinuates that he wouldn't take a QB if they aren't ready now.  And I don't blame Jay for this.  It's obviously the verdict that's placed on him.  So why would Jay care if they draft a QB who can't help him now if he's out the door in 2020.  My thought is either you believe in your head coach or you don't.   You don't go for a 2019 season or bust show when it comes to finding a young QB IMO.  Otherwise it comes off as another weird rodeo as for the QB spot that Dan's tenure is infamous for.  

 

Personally, I am ok with waiting until 2020.  But I gather there is some desperation to sell season tickets and attract more casual fans and to do that they might need to make a move. 

[The Consigliere]

On 4/6/2019 at 8:54 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Random thought relating to Keim's article today where he repeats the win now mantra for this season.  It makes me rethink the later round QB -- what would be the point of a developmental QB.  Maybe Jay meant it when he said more or less Lock would be ready and Haskins not yet.  I gather Rosen has one year experience so they'd like that.  So if they go QB -- Lock or Rosen?

 

Jay Gruden: Redskins must 'win now' -- and top pick has to make impact

 

PHOENIX -- The Washington Redskins haven't made the playoffs in three years, which means one thing: They need to win now. And though they need a quarterback, finding one in the first round of the NFL draft might not accomplish that desire.

That's why other spots could be higher on their to-do list with the 15th pick in the draft, which is April 25-27 (ESPN and ESPN App) in Nashville, Tennessee.

If the Redskins add a quarterback, coach Jay Gruden provided insight into what he's expecting:

"There is no developmental process here," Gruden said. "This is not Triple-A baseball; we're [not] trying to develop a pitcher here. We're trying to win a game right now. If we draft a quarterback in the first, second, third or seventh rounds and he's going to start Day 1, we expect great things from him.

 

"Players will expect great things from him. Ryan Kerrigan is not expecting us to come out and 'let's build for the future.' We've got to win now. Josh Norman, same way. Landon Collinsdid not come here to be good in 2034. They came here to be good and compete to win a Super Bowl this year."

At No. 15, there's no guarantee a quarterback they like falls to them -- let alone one ready to start. The Redskins do have Colt McCoy and Case Keenum, but they need a long-term answer at quarterback with Alex Smith's future in doubt. And there's a solid chance they end up trading for Arizona quarterback Josh Rosen.

With Gruden likely entering the season on the hot seat, he needs immediate help from the first-round pick.

"Every one of these coaches feel they have to win now," Redskins president Bruce Allen said at the recent NFL owners meetings in Arizona.

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/38325/jay-gruden-redskins-must-win-now-need-impact-from-top-pick

 

 

I agree with Keim's point below.  Brian Burns IMO would be that guy.

... They had many coverage issues, but they lacked a speed rusher who could instantly threaten a quarterback. They can find one at No. 15.

 

If Kerrigan wasn't expecting that, he shouldn't have resigned with us. It's been this way for 25 years, it will continue to be until a new GM and a new owner come in, or the owner gets a personality transplant. 

 

Honestly, i could really care less what the players think. They're in total denial if they think we're competing for anything beyond a pick in the top 10 next year. Playoffs? insert Jim Mora line here. 

[Anselmheifer]

14 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

If Kerrigan wasn't expecting that, he shouldn't have resigned with us. It's been this way for 25 years, it will continue to be until a new GM and a new owner come in, or the owner gets a personality transplant. 

 

Honestly, i could really care less what the players think. They're in total denial if they think we're competing for anything beyond a pick in the top 10 next year. Playoffs? insert Jim Mora line here. 

This. Just, obviously, this. I love Ryan Kerrigan and Trent Williams. They work hard and play hurt and are pro's pro's. You never manage the team based on what is best for your OLB and LT this year. You manage the team based on the long term best interests of a franchise. If there is a window to win a Super Bowl, that's obviously in the best long term interest, even though it's a short term goal. Otherwise, just keep building. 

Regarding Kirk and Alex Smith, Kirk's current contract is too rich, but we could have signed him for much less before the double franchise tag. And there is an enormous difference between a 30yo QB and a 34 yo QB. Regretting Alex Smith isn't hind sight. Tons of members here thought it was a poor trade/signing. We would have been better off just tanking than signing a 34yo game manager. The utterly obvious outcome of that trade was always that our best case scenario is to contend for a wild card for 2-3 years and then have to find another QB. 

 

Regarding the WR's I think the only value at 15 would be Marquise Brown, and I think you could get him later. I've warmed to the idea of adding Brown as an explosive playmaker/speed receiver. We have utterly lacked that element since Desean left. Also, when I watch AJ Brown, I see a lesser Deebo Samuel, but without the health issues? I'd rather have Deebo, I think. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

5) They won’t take a WR at 15 - There isn’t anybody that good. The guys that killed it at the Combine don’t have the tape, and the guys with the great tape didn’t kill it at the Combine. One former NFL GM explained that when the receiver run starts, the Redskins should be in a good position in the second round to get somebody that can help right away. Watch out for Ohio State’s Parris Campbell in round two.

1) No second-round pick - The Redskins won’t have a second-round pick because it will be included in a trade for Josh Rosen. A second this year and a third in 2020, with maybe an additional fifth from 2019. The team holds three of them. Rosen for a collection of picks, while keeping the 15th overall pick and another selection in the third round, would be a great way to add a QB of the future in Washington. Plus, it could still let the 'Skins get edge rush help in the first round and a WR, TE or guard in the third.

 

Confused by Finlay's statements there.  Don't these contradict each other?  One says they're planning around drafting a WR in Round 2, the other says they won't have a 2nd round pick.

 

If we trade away the 2nd, the only way to get another is to trade down from #15, but Finlay heavily implies the team desperately wants to draft an impact Day 1 player at #15.  Trading down kind of hurts the chances of that happening.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

On 4/6/2019 at 11:54 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

Random thought relating to Keim's article today where he repeats the win now mantra for this season.  It makes me rethink the later round QB -- what would be the point of a developmental QB.  Maybe Jay meant it when he said more or less Lock would be ready and Haskins not yet.  I gather Rosen has one year experience so they'd like that.  So if they go QB -- Lock or Rosen?

 

I don't think Lock or Rosen are "win now QB's".  Both have issues and need development.  I guess the argument would be how quickly can they develop and change?  Honestly, I don't think either can within 1 year.  I like Drew Lock a lot, but I still think he's a 2nd round QB, or at best a late-1st rounder.  There's too much he needs to change, as well as figuring out how to throw a damn touch pass.  He's rocketed checkdowns to a RB who can't catch the bullet because it was whipped at his face from 4 yards away.

 

This is a bad year to need a QB.  McCoy/Keenum can not be upgraded upon in 2019.  If we do get a QB, hopefully Rosen/Lock/Haskins/whoever can develop enough to be better than McCoy/Keenum in 2020...but we're in an unfortunate spot and situation for this upcoming 2019 season.

 

I still think Brett Rypien in the 5th round (or whatever), is among the best value in the draft at QB.  Is he a long term starter?  Probably not.  Is he a long term backup who can come in and play OK in an emergency?  Yes.  He's better value in the 5th than Jones/Lock/Haskins are at #15 in the 1st, or Grier in the 2nd.

[Skin'emAlive]

Drafting a quarterback buys a coach time, even if that rookie isnt quite ready. (see Harbaugh, Baltimore).  Trading for a quarterback immediately puts him on the hot seat to get results. (see Zimmer, Minnesota)