mistertim Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 38 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: The top 2 picks need to be OL, anything else is just stupid. Reaching for need in the draft is stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said: Perfect fit for the Colts IMO. He fits their zone scheme. The early Jets 2nd rounder could be slotted for him. If we trade for Rosen, I think we'll trade down. We need to recoup the lost value for the lost 2nd. IMO, I'd offer our 3rd plus our 2020 2nd. I'd trade down to recoup the lost 3rd for this year and go from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 2 hours ago, nonniey said: Depends on who is available. Would you draft a 4th round talent in the 1st just because he is the top OL on your board? Locking yourself in for need is not smart. That said my preference also leans toward OL if the value is there (Jonah Williams would be great). If you are making the 15th pick in the first round and the best available OL is considered a 4th round talent on your board than the guy(s) who made your board need to be fired, to suggest otherwise is simply absurd. Equally absurd would be going into 2019 with the same OL and hoping for a different result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Final answer..I want the skins to draft Marquise Brown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: If you are making the 15th pick in the first round and the best available OL is considered a 4th round talent on your board than the guy(s) who made your board need to be fired, to suggest otherwise is simply absurd. Equally absurd would be going into 2019 with the same OL and hoping for a different result. When our OL was healthy in the first part of the 2018 season they were rated a top 10 OL by PFF. Even after injuries we weren't at the bottom of the heap. We definitely need depth and need a new LG, but our OL isn't nearly as bad as some people insist on making them out to be. Our offense was anemic last season but it was more the fault of super conservative QBing and play calling than it was a horrible OL. We have 2 Pro Bowl top 5 picks in our OL. That's 2 more than most teams have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 14 minutes ago, mistertim said: When our OL was healthy in the first part of the 2018 season they were rated a top 10 OL by PFF. Even after injuries we weren't at the bottom of the heap. We definitely need depth and need a new LG, but our OL isn't nearly as bad as some people insist on making them out to be. Our offense was anemic last season but it was more the fault of super conservative QBing and play calling than it was a horrible OL. We have 2 Pro Bowl top 5 picks in our OL. That's 2 more than most teams have. I don't want to be full-on snarky but what team have you been watching? I don't care what PFF had to say I watched them and the Redskins OL hasn't been able to get tough yardage in the red zone on the ground for years, healthy or not. When healthy they could pass block long enough for Cousins and Smith but they don't stay healthy and they don't run block well enough, equally importantly they have broken down badly two years in a row, new guys are needed. We need to draft a young tackle in the first round and a young guard in the second. If another good interior OL is available in round 3 I'd take him also. I don't expect the Skins to be able to challenge in 2019 but they should be able to rebuild the OL and have a good OL in 2020 for a rookie QB. Repair the OL now and get a QB and some receivers in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, volsmet said: Wait, I thought you hated Grier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, mistertim said: .. Wait, I thought you hated Grier... I’m not Will Duncan. I don’t care about Grier. I’ve posted other people’s positive thoughts about him. It’s just a post for the thread. Grier a terrible prospect. Will Duncan will be proven wrong. You ok now, muh dear? Moving on: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said: I don't want to be full-on snarky but what team have you been watching? I don't care what PFF had to say I watched them and the Redskins OL hasn't been able to get tough yardage in the red zone on the ground for years, healthy or not. When healthy they could pass block long enough for Cousins and Smith but they don't stay healthy and they don't run block well enough, equally importantly they have broken down badly two years in a row, new guys are needed. We need to draft a young tackle in the first round and a young guard in the second. If another good interior OL is available in round 3 I'd take him also. I don't expect the Skins to be able to challenge in 2019 but they should be able to rebuild the OL and have a good OL in 2020 for a rookie QB. Repair the OL now and get a QB and some receivers in 2020. One of the weirder open secrets in recent years has been that whereas in the 90's, 80's and really throughout time, finding strong run blocking lineman was significantly easier than technically sound, quality OL's. Today the situation is the opposite. It seems to be connected to the prevalence of spread offenses and the movement away from traditional run first offenses. It is kind of funny though. OL's always loved to pancake guys and get moving in run blocking schemes where they could punish the defense, but now, it's a lost art with a ton of OL prospects compared to pass blocking technician type skill sets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonniey Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 3 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: If you are making the 15th pick in the first round and the best available OL is considered a 4th round talent on your board than the guy(s) who made your board need to be fired, to suggest otherwise is simply absurd. Equally absurd would be going into 2019 with the same OL and hoping for a different result. Point being is you don't reach - ever. If, at pick 15, the OL on the Board isn't in lets say the top 20-25 players on your Board - either don't take him or trade down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Finally got around to watching some Dawson Knox. He runs a 4.51 and he looks it too. He's fast. He gets open. In the game against Alabama in particular he was open a lot but Ta-amu didn't throw to him for whatever reason. They lined him up all over the field. Old Miss didn't throw to him much I presume because of their other weapons. And the key is the dude can block, too. I think he's a bit overhyped as a blocker. Better run blocker than pass blocker. But he is a willing blocker and feisty. It's hard to find electric highlights but if you watch through the games, he's open again and again and again. And his speed is receiver like. Same speed as Doctson and this dude is a TE. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-top-10-tight-ends-for-2019-nfl-draft TE DAWSON KNOX, OLE MISS Knox earned a 75.3 run-blocking grade across 223 run-blocking snaps with Ole Miss this past season, ranking third in the draft class. knox.mp4 knox2.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 I admit I haven't done the research but at face value, Byron Murphy is small, slow, young and why didn't he run the 3 cone or shuttle drills at the combine. That's a scary pick to make in Rd 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, JSSkinz said: I admit I haven't done the research but at face value, Byron Murphy is small, slow, young and why didn't he run the 3 cone or shuttle drills at the combine. That's a scary pick to make in Rd 1. he ran basically the same 40 as Norman, and instinctively he's one of the best coming out of college. All american WR in high school, he's good at diagnosing a route and play call. He doesn't jump off the page in physical numbers, but statistically, the dude can ball. Guys can bulk up, add weight, and work on footwork... instincts are a life long development. I've also heard he's a practice junkie and a bulldog. He'll go after anyone and is not one to play timid. I don't know that I want to take him in the 1st, but he's got a lot going for him. Posted 7 interceptions and 20 pass breakups in just 87 career targets Steps downhill and strikes like an angry safety Small sample size, but 20 pass breakup in 87 targets is off the charts. Below-average footwork to adjust to receiver's release Grabs and hitches to receiver to help match the pattern Comes in hot and can overrun the tackle Quicker than fast with questionable long speed From everything i've heard, I'd bulk him up from 190 to about 205 and put him at Nickle. He's got quick feet, but the technique is not very good. Like i said above, you can teach technique. I'd imagine with an NFL quality DB coach, he's going to make some big time improvements, as well as being on an NFL diet and workout regimen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 11 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: If you are making the 15th pick in the first round and the best available OL is considered a 4th round talent on your board than the guy(s) who made your board need to be fired, to suggest otherwise is simply absurd. Equally absurd would be going into 2019 with the same OL and hoping for a different result. All true but I'm still not slotting the first two picks for the OL. Give me an OT that can play G for a year before switching to T. Use a 5th round pick for a Guard that can step up after a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, PlayAction said: All true but I'm still not slotting the first two picks for the OL. Give me an OT that can play G for a year before switching to T. Use a 5th round pick for a Guard that can step up after a year. I'd add for those obsessed with protection-blocking you have to factor TE just as much as LG. Jay's running game is mostly Duo where the TE's blocking is central for the play to work because they have to seal the edge and ensure that the DE doesn't crash down on the play. Also, as we've pointed out on this thread, it doesn't help that our personnel as to TEs basically telegraph what's coming as to run-pass. One of the best ways to protect your QB is to not put a billboard up for edge rushers that a pass is on the way. My point is I am definitely in the camp that they'd be nuts not to take advantage of this TE rich draft where you have multiple prospects who can be a traditional Y type do it all TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I'd add for those obsessed with protection-blocking you have to factor TE just as much as LG. Jay's running game is mostly Duo where the TE's blocking is central for the play to work because they have to seal the edge and ensure that the DE doesn't crash down on the play. Also, as we've pointed out on this thread, it doesn't help that our personnel as to TEs basically telegraph what's coming as to run-pass. One of the best ways to protect your QB is to not put a billboard up for edge rushers that a pass is on the way. My point is I am definitely in the camp that they'd be nuts not to take advantage of this TE rich draft where you have multiple prospects who can be a traditional Y type do it all TE. The single biggest factor iMHO... which is a lot of my frustration with this coaching staff. A lot of our shortcomings along the line can be mitigated with the right scheme and playcalling, we just haven't done it. That said, we still need to address the O-line, i'm not saying were good there in any sense. We need to start considering life after Trent, as well as making sure we've got a pipeline at Guard. C seems to be 'ok' right now, but the right guy coming in here can upgrade that position. Nothing on this team is above upgrade right now, outside of maybe RB due to the investment in Guice, and even that is not a guarantee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayAction Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: My point is I am definitely in the camp that they'd be nuts not to take advantage of this TE rich draft where you have multiple prospects who can be a traditional Y type do it all TE. The draft seems to have good depth at TE and the position is a big need for the team. The moons have aligned so now the Skins just have to execute the plan. Right scheme; right play call; he's wide open; d'oh! butter-fingers drops the ball. Those days are over...….right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Rich Hribar and Matt Kelley just had a podcast that dealt with the draft and the raw #'s, and what makes good and bad process (occurs about the hour mark when discussing why John Elway's F.O. performance is more FA bad then draft bad). Probably the most valuable insight is with regards to which positions are worth day 1 and day 2 investment, and which aren't (essentially QB, OT, WR, Edge, CB if memory serves) Insights include stuff he pointed out on twitter as well: Some pieces from the last decade under review (2006-2015): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamcal00 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Just watched some Devin Bush highlights. My goodness, you put him beside Foster in the middle of our defense becomes formidable for the first time in a decade. Getting derrius and Foster this year is like getting two first-round talents on the team. Their impact can't get overlooked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhd24 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 minute ago, teamcal00 said: Just watched some Devin Bush highlights. My goodness, you put him beside Foster in the middle of our defense becomes formidable for the first time in a decade. Getting derrius and Foster this year is like getting two first-round talents on the team. Their impact can't get overlooked I'm warming to Bush. He seems like a safe defensive player the FO is looking for. I just don't know if he reaches 15. Cinci & GB could both easily take him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 Most interesting piece of information in the research: Round 1 Players from that previous decade per position that got second deals with their drafted organization.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Consigliere Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 1 hour ago, PlayAction said: The draft seems to have good depth at TE and the position is a big need for the team. The moons have aligned so now the Skins just have to execute the plan. Right scheme; right play call; he's wide open; d'oh! butter-fingers drops the ball. Those days are over...….right? Honestly, I don't know why we wouldn't look at underperforming TE's of high pedigree from the loaded '17 class to acquire via a discounted price in the trade market. If the Bears are stupid enough to invest a top 40ish pick on a TE they now believe is only good at blocking in Adam Shaheen, why not take advantage of that and offer them a day 3 pick and a conditional higher day 3 pick in '20 based upon performance targets? I might do the same with Jonnu Smith. In both cases the staffs that argued for said players are gone, and in Shaheen's case, the new regime is talking about using him only as an inline option, and in Jonnu's case, drafting another TE. Why not sniff around? Both are/were terrific prospects and Shaheen's a great deal more athletic than their coaching staff seems to think. Another prospect I'd love to target is Baltimore's Mark Andrews. They wasted a top 20 pick on Hurst (a lot of people liked him here last year, i did not, not so much because of his talent or lack thereof, more because he was a crazy overage prospect, and even if he panned out, w/TE learning curves typically sitting at 2-3 years before productivity, Hurst would be at the peak of his prime (27) entering his year three season, rendering him a waste of a selection. When you have guys like Jonnu Smith and Shaheen turning 24 as they play their third NFL season, Everett at 25, and Andrews, Hurst's teammate, will only be 24 entering his third season, why are you wasting a pick on Hurst considering that roi based on age? For example, the top 3 or 4 guys in this draft will be these ages when they start their third season: Hockenson: 24 Fant: 23 Smith Jr 23 Warring: 24 A look at a couple of TE's who would be worth taking a look at in the trade market. Shaheen Speed Score: 83rd Percentile (size adjusted) Burst Score: 54th Percentile Agility Score: 67th Percentile Dominator: 95th Percentile Breakout Age: 59th Percentile Jonnu Smith: Speed Score: 82 Percentile Burst Score: 94th Percentile Agility Score: 45th Percentile Dominator: 92nd Percentile Breakout Age: 100th Percentile Gerald Everett, also a favorite of mine, but probably not under any consideration to be traded fills out the same card with 72nd percentile, 93rd percentile, 81st percentile, 90th percentile and 44th percentile respectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted April 12, 2019 Share Posted April 12, 2019 I don't put much into this great site.. probably more of a pain in the ass than anything..so to all those who put the work in here ... I really appreciate it. Thanks everyone for making this place home for me on the world wide web!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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