2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I mean, I don't dislike Butler as a prospect but he's far from a Megatron from an athleticism standpoint (then again, Megatron is basically a once in a lifetime athlete...a true freak of nature) or from a pure WR standpoint. I've watched his cutups and he has some really nice attributes but his route running is shoddy and the drops really concern me. Usually guys who have the dropsies in college continue to have the dropsies in the NFL.

 

Sure but I am not arguing otherwise.  I agreed he's far from Megatron.

 

On another note, I just caught up with NFL Live where Todd McShay took a nice dig at the Redskins.  It was noteworthy for me because McShay from what I recall rarely digs at teams in general.  But he goes if he were Rosen he wouldn't want to go to the Redskins, he'd want to go to the Giants.  When he said that I thought he'd get into the Giants better supporting cast on offense as for passing weapons.  But he just flat out said it was a better run organization and implied the Redskins weren't a good organization.   I don't disagree albeit I don't have much respect for their GM, Gettleman.

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Except minus the 239 lb size, minus the 4.35 40, minus the 139 inch broad jump, minus the 42.5 inch vertical, and plus plenty of drops.

 

I'm curious what the context was that CJ was saying that in.

He’s been training with him a bit. It wasn’t just spontaneous.

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Sure but I am not arguing otherwise.  I agreed he's far from Megatron.

 

On another note, I just caught up with NFL Live where Todd McShay took a nice dig at the Redskins.  It was noteworthy for me because McShay from what I recall rarely digs at teams in general.  But he goes if he were Rosen he wouldn't want to go to the Redskins, he'd want to go to the Giants.  When he said that I thought he'd get into the Giants better supporting cast on offense as for passing weapons.  But he just flat out said it was a better run organization and implied the Redskins weren't a good organization.   I don't disagree albeit I don't have much respect for their GM, Gettleman.

 

Giants are a total s show. Evan Silva and Matt Kelley did a hilarious take down of the joke of an organization a few weeks ago, that they are apparently terrified of talk radio dinosaur Francesca and he played a key role in motivating the brain dead decision to pass on QB last spring and the decision to trade OBJ, essentially they committed to Eli over their idiot head coach from a few years back (I can't be bothered to look him up), and that was a colossal mistake. Didn't matter if the coach was incompetent, he was still absolutely right about Eli being washed. Instead they doubled down on Eli and got 2018 for their trouble. Even the Gentleman hire was connected to the old tired retreads network. No innovative GM's allowed, lets bring in the dolt who ruined the panthers and let him ruin our roster and that's what he did.

 

McShay is a complete moron if he thinks the Giants are a better run organization than ours. They used to be. Now they're total merde just like we are, but unlike them, we're much closer to firing our idiot GM and getting another shot at hiring a quality GM for the first time in 40 years. The Giants are stuck with Gettleman for at least another year if not two. They won't like the press they'd get for canning him just after two years. The more years he gets, the worse off they are.

 

In fairness to McShay, we are god awful, he just doesn't get that the Giants are total dog---- as well.  

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Giants ownership nixed the Landon Collins trade that was in-place during last season.

 

They also decided to extend Odell, and then immediately trade him despite the cap hit, for emotional reasons outside of football.

 

When we talk about owners meddling negatively, the Giants are in that group.

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Umm, actually, yes it is. It's based on an article from SI 18 months ago

 

I was going to reply sarcastically, but you obviously put a lot of thought & effort into your responses & I respect that, despite the dismissive tone, & the content. 

 

 

 

[volsmet]

5 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

What % of Murray's were? I'm not being a smart ass, I'm genuinely curious because they both played in Air Raid systems under coaches that came directly from the Mike Leach offensive tree. 

 

I don’t give a 🤫 if you’re being a smart ass, it would actually be refreshing to meet your better half. 

[volsmet]

3 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

I don't think you're grasping my points:

 

 

 

I find it hard to believe I’m going to let this go. I hope my new ES friends are proud of me.

 

 

[mistertim]

11 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

I don’t give a 🤫 if you’re being a smart ass, it would actually be refreshing to meet your better half. 

 

So, are the numbers available for Murray?

[volsmet]

58 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

 

 

McShay is a complete moron if he thinks the Giants are a better run organization than ours. They used to be. Now they're total merde just like we are, but unlike them, we're much closer to firing our idiot GM and getting another shot at hiring a quality GM for the first time in 40 years.

 

Just now, mistertim said:

 

So, are the numbers available for Murray?

 

No credit for a great line? 

[RWJ]

That GM already exists IMO, Kyle Smith.

[DWinzit]

On 4/8/2019 at 11:40 PM, Fresh8686 said:

In y’alls opinion, which edge rusher in this draft has the best hands? Especially when it comes to shedding that initial punch from the o-line. Is it Burns? Allen?

Rashan Garys hand strength stood out to me. For speed and usage I liked Sweat, Ximines, Polite, Winovich and Banogu. There are plays where Burns arms look extra long and he uses them well to brush off tackles hands.

You asked about Allen, his hands didn't stand out to me because it was more smooth in all aspects

Added note, three DT's hands that stood out to me were Simmons, Williams, Jones and even Mack.

[DWinzit]

17 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He didn't really elaborate much.  It was on a Sheehan podcast. So I presume he will ultimately go into depth on his own podcast.  He did a film review of Hockenson awhile ago where he liked his tools but thought he was a bit overrated because he found him inconsistent but has since backed off and now seems to love him.  For Fant, I was just half paying attention and if I heard him right he implied he was more or less he's a raw route runner and he doesn't buy into the rap that Fant is a decent blocker.  Forgot how he said it and it was quick so I was left with that impression somehow if I heard him right.  He didn't elaborate on why he liked Sternberger and Warring. 

 

I mentioned Ryan Anderson in my previous post because if he is the real goods then it would make it easier for them to take someone like Devin Bush.  And I am not sold on Bush yet from watching him but if he is who some say he is -- then he'd really help this team.  The one thing that really struck me about Dallas' defense which is clearly better than ours is the difference might be in their stud MLBs.   If you got a good D line AND monster MLBs -- that's difficult to contend with.   

 

 

Keim was on 980 today he seems to think they might trade back if the end up giving up a 2nd for Rosen.    Tough call for me because I don't love the pass rushers later in the first round the way I would for lets say Burns, Sweat, Ferrell.  Winovich I guess would be my fav as to a late first-early-mid 2nd pass rusher.  If I am trading down I might be looking at some of the O lineman and receivers.  Having said that the 2nd round (sort of like how it was last year for Rbs) is the sweet spot for receiver.   So I have mixed feelings on it since there is an obvious upside to having a 2nd round pick. 

 

 

I assume they would like to draft a TE to eventually take over for Reed as the starter while immediately allowing them to cut Davis. I can only see a handful of players that would be capable of this by the end of the year outside of Hock, Sternberger, Smith and Fant. Warring has certainly jumped on the scene and appears possibly capable along with the other I listed. They need one of these guys.

 

I was never a big fan of the Anderson selection but hope he really shines this year. His game just lacks the twitch to get at the QB.

 

The end of the 1st through the top of the 3rd will be the sweet spot for WR, CB, S and OL. The give up their 2nd to get Rosen I would think they are begging for a trade down to pick up another 3rd perhaps.

[Skinsinparadise]

7 hours ago, The Consigliere said:

 

Giants are a total s show. Evan Silva and Matt Kelley did a hilarious take down of the joke of an organization a few weeks ago, t

 

Agree the Giants are poorly run right now and I am loving it.  I've seen Silva say before the Redskins are the worst organization in the NFL.   I've seen him take down the Giants on twitter a lot lately.  But he also hasn't been immune from taking digs at the Redskins including saying the Flowers move was the dumbest FA signing of the year.  I've seen Matt Miller call the Redskins the worst organization in the NFL, too.  So as much as the Giants have been dissed of late.  McShay might not be on an island as for goofing on the Skins.  The Giants have just become an in vogue of late newcomer to that party especially post Beckham trade. 

 

Gettleman has made some dumb moves.  And I've loved watching it.  But Mara is generally more highly regarded that Dan.  And Bruce is often at the bottom or close to it on any of these NFL polls of worst GMs in the league.   Heck a football outsiders guy said recently (I posted it on a thread) that the Giants are getting hammering but the Redskins quietly are having a worst off season than them.  I disagree with that.   But not a lot of love for the Redskins from the draft geek- football geek community.  I get the football outsiders NFL preview book every year and its mostly analytical material with not a lot of editorial but for the Redskins section it almost always takes direct digs at the organization.  

 

I personally think the Giants are having the bad off season.  Redskins to me are having a so so one. Will see about the draft  But as much as I despise the Giants, I'd still take Mara over Dan.  I disagreed with their taking of Barkley last year over Darnold but otherwise the Giants had IMO a really good draft.  I think we did, too ironically.   But pro personnel has been a different dance for both organizations IMO.  And agree Gettleman has been worse.

 

I think if we put Kyle Smith at the top.  Much of this will change for the better as for being respected.   So hopefully you are right as for Bruce being on the ropes as you suggested.  On that front, I've heard of late mixed things.  Finlay thinks his job as safe as long as the stadium isn't wrapped up. 

 

Clearly you are not saying otherwise on any of this relating to our FO.  It's just my rant about the FO. 😀  Maybe if Kyle kills it in this draft they finally promote him.  That would make me very happy.

 

 

On another note anyone watch, Collier?  Weeks back I played up his teammate but haven't watched Collier. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I assume they would like to draft a TE to eventually take over for Reed as the starter while immediately allowing them to cut Davis. I can only see a handful of players that would be capable of this by the end of the year outside of Hock, Sternberger, Smith and Fant. Warring has certainly jumped on the scene and appears possibly capable along with the other I listed. They need one of these guys.

 

I was never a big fan of the Anderson selection but hope he really shines this year. His game just lacks the twitch to get at the QB.

 

The end of the 1st through the top of the 3rd will be the sweet spot for WR, CB, S and OL. The give up their 2nd to get Rosen I would think they are begging for a trade down to pick up another 3rd perhaps.

 

Agree.  A lot of smoke that TE is on their agenda.  The consensus seems to be pass rusher at the top in the first unless Hockenson falls.  And it would be like them to trade down and try to recoup the first if they give up the 2nd for Rosen.

 

if they stay put my prediction now is it will be Clelin Ferrell.  He checks all the boxes:

He's a Virginia kid (bonus)

He's a mega leader-locker room type (bonus)

He's a pass rusher who can also stop the run

I think they might get a kick adding a Clemson guy after going Alabama before (bonus)

He's a high floor player --which they seem to prefer in their first rounders

 

Jay even joked in an interview when asked about Alabama players saying this time it might be Clemson.  Was that a joke or a Freudian slip? 😀

 

Ferrell to me seems almost as obvious a profile as Da'ron Payne was last year for them.  My one pause about this is I suspect that someone unexpected drops and does that change the game.  I like Ferrell.  I think I'd go Burns over him because I'd prefer a speed pass rusher for a change because we already have plenty of power on the D line.   But I wouldn't be upset with Ferrell. 

 

 

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Giants might be a s-show right now, but all they need to do is nail the picks they got for OBJ and they're going to be a damn good team. Barkley is already looking like one of the best to come out in a long time, and imagine what he could do behind a GOOD offensive line. Eli sucks, but they have all the draft capital in the world to make sure they at least can choose a marquee QB. I laugh at them, but also am worried about them at the same time.

[The Consigliere]

9 hours ago, volsmet said:

 

I was going to reply sarcastically, but you obviously put a lot of thought & effort into your responses & I respect that, despite the dismissive tone, & the content. 

 

 

 

 

The visual references alone have me blushing in shame. I hate how I can get tonally at times, but I think it's reasonable to respond in an annoyed fashion if their told something they've said isn't true, when they've got an actual published article to back it up.

 

That being said, I was, and remained absolutely astounded at the voting results in that poll and at the time, and today it continues to inform my belief that a lot of front offices and scouts are just flat out clueless. I think we get so used to both:

 

1. Hearing random ill informed fans that are clueless on anything and everything team building.

2. Appeal to authority arguments

 

That we just assume that most front offices are housed by professionals who know what they're doing, or are clearly, better than the professionals. Guys that work for ESPN and other media outlets also have to deal with so many call in yokels that they also push the same message, and people just believe.

 

But I 1000% believe that at least in some cases, many of us that post here, actually are at least as good if not better than at the very least more incompetent and midling Front offices and place holder careerists in these jobs. Consult the Realgm draft boards over the past decade and you can note that a huge proportion of the boards posters for the wizards flat out would have owned the wizards in team building and drafting. At hockeysfuture's capitals message board the % of support for the worst trade in franchise history (Forsberg for a bag of peanuts, and used toilet bowl cleaner a half decade ago or so) was miniscule, and the rage, enormous. 

 

Generally on these boards/CPND etc, fans get it right more often then the brass. Ditto big soccer versus the incompetents at the US soccer fed/coaching staff level. 

 

Look at hollywood, where you will here the most horrifying stories about completely incompetent tv and production studios trying to kill nearly every classic show we've seen over the past 40 years, and repeatedly renewing drivel. You fail upwards as long as you can pawn off blame on someone else when something goes wrong.

 

So when I see a vote from scouts/f.o.'s like that, I have the same response as you before I actually see it: this can't possibly true. They couldn't possibly be this stupid. How on earth could they have Luke Falk ahead of Mayfield, or Josh Allen with 3x the points as Mayfield. It seems impossible to believe, but it is true. 

 

Generally speaking these guys are focused on one thing, clearing a paycheck, and getting the least amount of blame as possible attached to them which might endanger said paycheck. So short sighted moves, decisions for the now rather than tomorrow, team building itself are farcical ideas. You only see things well done w/organizations that have competent or better ownership and job secure proven or intelligent and soon to be proven F.O.'s that can make long term decisions secure in the knowledge that they won't be punished for short term set backs. 

 

I think the average fan is clueless compared to NFL guys, but people that have thousands of thoughtful posts, who exhibit rigorous thinking and quality process on these boards? There is zero reason why they'd be lesser than the average scout or even GM (see Magic resigning last night because it was occupying too much of his time and wasn't fun). I'm about 1000% sure there are multiple posters here that have better process than Bruce Allen and Snyder in their decision making w/prospective Redskins moves, and the only thing separating the quality of their scouting to the pros is access to things like background interviews/P.I.'s (a famous bust WR wasn't drafted by the Bucs a decade or so ago in part because P.I.'s saw him at local bar's over and over and over again, and reported in a drinking problem-that's info no fan on a message board would know about unless they went to the same bar) and more detailed area scouting reports and video etc. 

 

At some point I'm gonna figure out how to stop being so long winded, and occasionally d baggy. Apologize for both. 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree the Giants are poorly run right now and I am loving it.  I've seen Silva say before the Redskins are the worst organization in the NFL.   I've seen him take down the Giants on twitter a lot lately.  But he also hasn't been immune from taking digs at the Redskins including saying the Flowers move was the dumbest FA signing of the year.  I've seen Matt Miller call the Redskins the worst organization in the NFL, too.  So as much as the Giants have been dissed of late.  McShay might not be on an island as for goofing on the Skins.  The Giants have just become an in vogue of late newcomer to that party especially post Beckham trade. 

 

Gettleman has made some dumb moves.  And I've loved watching it.  But Mara is generally more highly regarded that Dan.  And Bruce is often at the bottom or close to it on any of these NFL polls of worst GMs in the league.   Heck a football outsiders guy said recently (I posted it on a thread) that the Giants are getting hammering but the Redskins quietly are having a worst off season than them.  I disagree with that.   But not a lot of love for the Redskins from the draft geek- football geek community.  I get the football outsiders NFL preview book every year and its mostly analytical material with not a lot of editorial but for the Redskins section it almost always takes direct digs at the organization.  

 

 

I don't have any problem with that. The giants being god awful and the redskins being god awful are two unrelated things, but they're both true. In both cases we have bottom tier GM's in the league, in both cases we have ownership problems (NYG ownership is fearful of NY Media, and no longer the quality it once was, probably entitled rich family members inheriting their position don't really have the same grit earlier figures had, wisdom sometimes skips a generation or more, while we have a selfmade owner whose an egomaniac dolt. Different problems, but both are catastrophic for team building even if they're different. 

 

I haven't been impressed w/either offseason so far, but a Rosen trade would change my mind a bit. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Especially if they go for Rosen, IMO we'd need a dude who is good with contested catches.  I've talked some about Harry on that front but Whiteside got my attention of late running a 4.49.  That's fast for a big physical receiver. 

 

Got some draft guide that computes receiving expected points (got no idea how they do it) Whiteside ranked 4th.  8th in yards per target.   YPR and TDs were really good for the last two seasons.  I am having a hard time finding full games to watch him though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[The Consigliere]

1 hour ago, TheMalcolmConnection said:

Giants might be a s-show right now, but all they need to do is nail the picks they got for OBJ and they're going to be a damn good team. Barkley is already looking like one of the best to come out in a long time, and imagine what he could do behind a GOOD offensive line. Eli sucks, but they have all the draft capital in the world to make sure they at least can choose a marquee QB. I laugh at them, but also am worried about them at the same time.

 

Depends upon how they use it, and they cratered in a great QB class year and thankfully were too clueless to take advantage of it. This is a crummy class and it remains to be seen if they use it. Nothing would be better than them failing to get Rosen AND acquiring enough help to put them out of touching distance w/the best of the '20 and '21 classes. The longer they struggle to replace Eli the better off we are, the problems crop up when things like the Eagles trading up for Wentz seem to succeed, while our trade ups fail (RGIII), and the Cowboys land guys totally outside the zone of typical hit rates (they landed a franchise QB as essentially an undrafted free agent 15+ years ago, and then landed another league average+ starter on day 3, something that happens only about 5% of the time, and to compound the frustration, they only landed Prescott because Jerruh and friends listen to retired vets like Michael Irvin (who loved Prescott) and failed to trade up successfully for uberbust Paxton Lynch that they thought they'd landed, but lost out on at the last minute. 

 

Everything can change on a dime w/the right QB falling into place. That changes everything. If the Giants get Haskins or Murray (the former is possible, the latter unlikely) it's a concern, I think Haskins can become a league average guy at least, if they don't land either of them but go after a second tier guy, I'm happy, the chances of success are much lower, if they skip QB entirely I'm not quite as happy but only out of fear that they could possibly stink enough to land Tua next year, or Lawrence in '21 which seems a stretch, as they have a lot of tools on offense to pull out wins, there are worst rosters around. 

[The Consigliere]

I wouldn't worry about contested catches. I would just go after someone you think can be successful, has the best chance to be. Our WR pool in house is pretty weak, although now we have a QB who will at least use everyone. Interesting on a Saturday2Sunday podcast (I consistently disagree w/those guys but I like to listen to contrary opinions) they had Matt Waldman on for a 2 hour interview. For tape people, he's a fantastic guy to listen to, he also does boiler room youtube videos on players as well. His one short one on Nick Chubb last year was a classic. The one where he defies physics after getting knocked askew heading through a hole, really well worth a watch. Havent listened to it all, but it opens with a big talk about Hakeem Butler being his top ranked WR since he started doing this stuff for his RSP four or five years ago. Also love that they discussed Jalen Hurd, I'm really curious about what will happen w/him, he's a super interesting prospect. 

 

For me, avoiding DK Metcalf is huge, if we avoid him, I like at least a little bit pretty much every single other WR in the top 8 or so, w/some clearly liked more than others (still think AJ Brown will be the best value in the draft if he goes where expected (25 to 50). Would remind me of the value teams got with so many day 2 WR's in 2014. 

 

[Brixtion_skin]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 1:45 PM, London Kev said:

 

Wilson was drafted on the 2nd day (3rd round), not the 3rd day (rounds 4-7).

 

Also just a heads-up; that was a big quote for just a four word reply. It's generally accepted (and a rule, I believe) that you edit down such a big quote before replying. 

Thanks for the warning.

[Skinsinparadise]

Agree as for chasing receivers who will be successful.  I bring up contested catches with Rosen because he is a risk taker and is willing to give receivers contested 50-50 chances.  I am looking for receivers who can separate, good route runners, can beat press coverage/good release, can bring YAC, etc.  But watching Rosen one of the things that hit me is I don't think we've had a QB here in recent memory who takes as many chances as he does.  So I do think a receiver with some strong hands and is adept at fighting for the ball -- can be helpful.   Having said that I don't really have a man crush on any receiver -- the closest for me was Marquise Brown who I gushed about last fall.  I like a bunch of them though. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DWinzit]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Agree.  A lot of smoke that TE is on their agenda.  The consensus seems to be pass rusher at the top in the first unless Hockenson falls.  And it would be like them to trade down and try to recoup the first if they give up the 2nd for Rosen.

 

if they stay put my prediction now is it will be Clelin Ferrell.  He checks all the boxes:

He's a Virginia kid (bonus)

He's a mega leader-locker room type (bonus)

He's a pass rusher who can also stop the run

I think they might get a kick adding a Clemson guy after going Alabama before (bonus)

He's a high floor player --which they seem to prefer in their first rounders

 

Jay even joked in an interview when asked about Alabama players saying this time it might be Clemson.  Was that a joke or a Freudian slip? 😀

 

Ferrell to me seems almost as obvious a profile as Da'ron Payne was last year for them.  My one pause about this is I suspect that someone unexpected drops and does that change the game.  I like Ferrell.  I think I'd go Burns over him because I'd prefer a speed pass rusher for a change because we already have plenty of power on the D line.   But I wouldn't be upset with Ferrell. 

 

 

Farrell at 15 feels like safe pick like Preston Smith except he was a found later. I don't see him harassing QB's. If this is what they want they would have been better off resigning Smith a year ago when they could have brought him in cheaper. This year they could then have talked trading Kerrigan or keeping him and addressing edge with a shorter situational speedster in a late round. Then they could be focusing more on all of the other roster needs. I'd say for edge it should be Sweat or Burns or trade down....which I think is what they need to do if the Rosen trade was to occur.

 

Bringing in a new Clemson guy would make for a fun first day in camp.

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

25 minutes ago, DWinzit said:

Farrell at 15 feels like safe pick like Preston Smith except he was a found later. I don't see him harassing QB's. If this is what they want they would have been better off resigning Smith a year ago when they could have brought him in cheaper. This year they could then have talked trading Kerrigan or keeping him and addressing edge with a shorter situational speedster in a late round. Then they could be focusing more on all of the other roster needs. I'd say for edge it should be Sweat or Burns or trade down....which I think is what they need to do if the Rosen trade was to occur.

 

Bringing in a new Clemson guy would make for a fun first day in camp.

 

 

What makes you think Sweat will be better than Ferrell?

[DWinzit]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

I wouldn't worry about contested catches. I would just go after someone you think can be successful, has the best chance to be. Our WR pool in house is pretty weak, although now we have a QB who will at least use everyone. Interesting on a Saturday2Sunday podcast (I consistently disagree w/those guys but I like to listen to contrary opinions) they had Matt Waldman on for a 2 hour interview. For tape people, he's a fantastic guy to listen to, he also does boiler room youtube videos on players as well. His one short one on Nick Chubb last year was a classic. The one where he defies physics after getting knocked askew heading through a hole, really well worth a watch. Havent listened to it all, but it opens with a big talk about Hakeem Butler being his top ranked WR since he started doing this stuff for his RSP four or five years ago. Also love that they discussed Jalen Hurd, I'm really curious about what will happen w/him, he's a super interesting prospect. 

 

For me, avoiding DK Metcalf is huge, if we avoid him, I like at least a little bit pretty much every single other WR in the top 8 or so, w/some clearly liked more than others (still think AJ Brown will be the best value in the draft if he goes where expected (25 to 50). Would remind me of the value teams got with so many day 2 WR's in 2014. 

 

With the uncertainty at QB and if the HC has a say in the draft, combined with the array of WR talent and sizes, I have no idea what WR is best for the Redskins. I agree DK should not be on the list. IMO they should be able to clear at the line, go inside or outside and create separation threw speed or quickness....oh yes, and catch! lol

 

I was catching up on a number of podcasts last night and did hear Waldman convincingly speak of Butler. I believe it also was that podcast that talked up Isabella (who I really like) and Miles Boykin (not so much)