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Welcome to the Washington Redskins Derrius Guice RB LSU

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goskins10

goskins10

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I don't doubt your research but something sure seems off.   

 

I guess a question for you is - why wouldn't team doctors be concerned about he knee injury that late in October 2017 that was clearly slow to heal.  If its a bruise, it's usually called as such.   Sure he may have looked great in the combine but you know what, people can have a high tolerance for pain starting with AP, ironically. Did Bruce have his knee totally stress tested? i don't even know if that is allowed.

 

You know when I suspected there was a problem - when he was injured for the 18 season on what looked like an innocent enough tackle. Sure there were 2 or 3 in on the tackle obscuring views. Now we know he is injured yet no one can pin point when it happened.  That sadly throws up a red flag to me. Now we hear CT say that he was maybe injured before week 1?? That is what I suspected.

 

I learned from an old Orioles farm hand AA pitcher.  When players are not under contract, they do EVERYTHING they can to mask injuries.  One can only imagine how much it costs off a rookie contract of a potential first rounder if not all future contracts. Also, learned from hockey circles, if guys don't try to play through an injury, you open the door for someone to steal your job. So guys limp out there and don't say a damn thing and we as fans are left to guess at all of it, short of high profile clearly visible injuries occurring.

 

I would rather know he was still injured when we drafted him, than learn he gets injured on innocent looking plays at an alarming rate.  But if that were true, how did he survive college enough to warrant his projected draft slot?  That points to us drafting a guy not fully healed.

 

With all due respect i think you are looking for something that is just not there. I get this FO makes a lot of foolish moves. But this is not one of them. Keep in mind that while he was injured on the first play in preseason last year, he had been in camp for OTAs and full training camp and been fine. It's not like that was the first time he took contact. 

 

Also, there are medicals that come out of the combine and no one - not a single team mentioned his knee as an issue. It was purely about maturity between the question accusations he did make and the meeting between philly that was made into something it was not. 

 

As for in game this last week - I do not know what happened when so I cannot speak to it. I can tell you it's the opposite knee from the injured one and that is unfortunately very common. 

 

He may have injury problems his entire career and end up not working out. But the college injury was not a tell tale at the time. He had by all accounts and exams reached full health. 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

Posted
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25 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

With all due respect....

Nice rebuttal and all good points, but sorry - 2 push backs.

 

Did he really take significant contact in camp?  With all the media folks tweeting about anything and everything, I cannot ever recall reading about a RB taking a big hit in camp, crunched by a LB in the hole, trucking or running over a DB, no great stiff arms, took a hit on the knee..... not this year nor last.  Maybe they have a lot for hitting including on the legs, but forced to guess i would say there is very little.  Preseason - it's game on with 3 guys on his back 5 plays in running full speed on crumb rubber pellets.  Maybe camp vet spectators can chime in that is normal stuff in July.

 

I suspect there are many players that have injuries not properly treated in college/fully healed, and not documented at the combine. Take some pain meds and suck it up for a few days.   Or maybe the league doesn't want us to hear about injuries to stars and future stars alike. I would love for a GM that passed on him to fess up.  "Yep we were scared a 21 year male old was immature" to me, points to still taking him and just needing a mentor / strong teammate support structure in place.

 

 

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goskins10

goskins10

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17 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Nice rebuttal and all good points, but sorry - 2 push backs.

 

Did he really take significant contact in camp?  With all the media folks tweeting about anything and everything, I cannot ever recall reading about a RB taking a big hit in camp, crunched by a LB in the hole, trucking or running over a DB, no great stiff arms, took a hit on the knee..... not this year nor last.  Maybe they have a lot for hitting including on the legs, but forced to guess i would say there is very little.  Preseason - it's game on with 3 guys on his back 5 plays in running full speed on crumb rubber pellets.  Maybe camp vet spectators can chime in that is normal stuff in July.

 

I suspect there are many players that have injuries not properly treated in college/fully healed, and not documented at the combine. Take some pain meds and suck it up for a few days.   Or maybe the league doesn't want us to hear about injuries to stars and future stars alike. I would love for a GM that passed on him to fess up.  "Yep we were scared a 21 year male old was immature" to me, points to still taking him and just needing a mentor / strong teammate support structure in place.

 

 

 

I get what you are saying. I do not have exact answers but to be honest i still think you are looking for a root cause that's just not there. We do know they still go full pads and full speed at least some of TC. Not as much as before but they do get hit like a real game. Do they recreate every possible hit angle he will see? Not possible. It's on the doctors. Now could the doctors be incompetent? Of course. Some at this point would even say yes absolutely. 

 

The medicals they do is more than taking your temperature. These are real doctors. Sorry but i am just not buying this they should have done more about his injury and seen it would happen. But that's just me. Based on what I saw and what I know, it's seems very unlikely that this FO was less diligent and just did a poor job of evaluating him. 

 

Now, you could make an argument that you should never draft someone that has any kind of knee or ankle injury in college. But I think you miss out on a lot of talent. Not to mention with Guice, when you watch his film by the end of 2017 he was full go. He was not holding anything back and he was taking a beating. And in the SEC you are going up against a lot of guys that will be playing on Sundays. 

 

Anyway, probably time to move on. I respect your thoughts here but just do not come to the same conclusion. 

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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Sadly probably even Andrews now can no longer be trusted to do more than putting guy's back together.  Didn't we have him on our sideline at one point, and he towed the NFL Medical Line butchered an injury call?

 

I am not sure it would hurt our team to blindly add a month or 2 of additional rest/rehab for every major injury.  And add a week or 2 for minor injuries.

 

If we keep botching these things its going to be hard to doubt anything Trent thinks about WRT injuries.

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ExoDus84

ExoDus84

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I love the explosiveness and playmaking potential that Guice has/had. I was really excited for him. 

 

He's now played in two NFL games and suffered serious knee injuries in both. That's insane. More to the fact, looks like his career is going to end before it even begins at this rate. Hoping for a speedy recovery, but I have a feeling it isn't going to end well. 

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Nerm

Nerm

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2 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Also, there are medicals that come out of the combine and no one - not a single team mentioned his knee as an issue. It was purely about maturity between the question accusations he did make and the meeting between philly that was made into something it was not. 

 

He may have injury problems his entire career and end up not working out. But the college injury was not a tell tale at the time. He had by all accounts and exams reached full health. 

 

I don't have insight into whether any teams viewed him as having red flags about his health.  But every draft profile I found did discuss injuries having a negative impact on his play over his final season.  For profiles that list things like "strengths and weaknesses", almost all of them listed injury concerns as a weakness for his draft prospects.  I know the draft profile information online is not an authoritative guide to irrefutable information, but injury history did seem to be a potential concern for teams.  I don't know if they have relevance to any injuries he has had in the NFL, but I wouldn't dismiss people's thoughts that his injury history caused at least some teams to drop him lower on their draft board.

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RandyHolt

RandyHolt

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18 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

I don't have insight into whether any teams viewed him as having red flags about his health.  But every draft profile I found did discuss injuries having a negative impact on his play over his final season.  For profiles that list things like "strengths and weaknesses", almost all of them listed injury concerns as a weakness for his draft prospects.  I know the draft profile information online is not an authoritative guide to irrefutable information, but injury history did seem to be a potential concern for teams.  I don't know if they have relevance to any injuries he has had in the NFL, but I wouldn't dismiss people's thoughts that his injury history caused at least some teams to drop him lower on their draft board.

 

Thanks for sharing that.  

 

I almost wouldn't even want a GM that overlooks injuries to players considered potential first rounders, especially injuries in the final games/months of their college career.  Injuries have to be considered negatives on draft boards, and not ignored. The more recent have to count heavier than ones long ago.  Many that we draft injured are instant candidates for the steal of the draft but there is a reason they drop, odds are already stacked against them.

 

Blindly, I think injuries are THE foremost reason a guy drops.  And I don't think #2 is even close.

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goskins10

goskins10

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38 minutes ago, Nerm said:

 

I don't have insight into whether any teams viewed him as having red flags about his health.  But every draft profile I found did discuss injuries having a negative impact on his play over his final season.  For profiles that list things like "strengths and weaknesses", almost all of them listed injury concerns as a weakness for his draft prospects.  I know the draft profile information online is not an authoritative guide to irrefutable information, but injury history did seem to be a potential concern for teams.  I don't know if they have relevance to any injuries he has had in the NFL, but I wouldn't dismiss people's thoughts that his injury history caused at least some teams to drop him lower on their draft board.

 

Those concerns were only that he had been injured in college. I read at least 90% of them, if not more. Not a single one could make the connection that there were lingering injury issues which is the conversation we are having. All those draft profiles will list injury concerns for any player who has had a significant injury. And that's fine. i even said you could adopt a policy of never drafting someone who has had an injury. 

 

Also, when you look at the games he played, by the end of the season he was full go. He was moving fine and playing at 100%. That is why I have trouble with the idea he had some lingering issues that went unnoticed by the Redskins. And that is what the conversation was. 

 

Again, his dropping was at least 90+% due to  maturity concerns. Did some teams use the previous injury as a deciding factor once they were concerned about maturity? Sure. But most team are much more concerned about maturity than injury history. Look at the guys that went in the 1st rd this yr with known injuries. 

 

Again the injury history was known. The discussion was did th Redskins miss something other team did not and that he fell because other teams saw some lingering injury issues. I do not believe that to be the case. Right up until the day before the draft 95% of the mocks had him mid 1st. I realize mocks are anything but science but when 95% are in the same place it's pretty close. 

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