Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

For my money Quinn has to make the roster - he is a safe pair of hands on special teams and seems to be a solid target - i am not saying he will unseat Crowder but can be complementary - in Sims i see the same guy Harris was a few years ago - big intriguing but inconsistent makes the circus catch that wows everyone but is invisible at other times - watching Quinn he tends to find the soft spot in the zone and is a key back up. 

 

  

Personally, I’d strongly consider keeping Quinn and Sims.  With Sims though, I have no idea how well he runs routes, and how he does vs different coverages.  That said, I’ve always been a big advocate for the number 1 backup being a player you trust to start, and the rest of the spots manned by promising developmental guys... not vets who appear to have hit their ceiling.  

 

 

[jbird2]

On 9/1/2018 at 10:42 AM, skinny21 said:

Personally, I’d strongly consider keeping Quinn and Sims.  With Sims though, I have no idea how well he runs routes, and how he does vs different coverages.  That said, I’ve always been a big advocate for the number 1 backup being a player you trust to start, and the rest of the spots manned by promising developmental guys... not vets who appear to have hit their ceiling.  

 

 

I am so stoked at our receiver corp this year!

 

I hope Gruden say's "gents, you catch the ball you keep playing. You drop a ball, and it's next guy up."

 

[Chachie]

32 minutes ago, jbird said:

I am so stoked at our receiver corp this year!

 

 

 

 

I would like to hear your list of reasons for being excited. It might help me out of my lack of excitement about our WR corps.

 

Personally, I don't think we have anyone at all that inspires fear in opposing defenses except Jordan Reed and he's got to prove he can stay on the field. Chris Thompson seems more of a threat than our WRs.

 

Help me feel better about this, jbird!

Edited September 4, 2018 by Chachie

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

All i know is its time for Josh Doctson to step up. Anything less than a 1000 yards is a fail season to me. He had his injury, came back last year & got his rookie season out of the way, Now is the time to become feared. This is a 1st round pick here, its time to start putting up numbers like one.

[Burgold]

I think it’s a high potential group. With Richardson you have speed, Crowder is one year removed from being very good, Doctson has the hops and hands. Then Quinn, Harris, and Sims have all flashed. 

 

That said, we are gambling on potential over production. All of these guys can do it, but none has really taken off. Can Richardson do for us what Moss did after being thrown away by the Jets. Can Crowder return to form after a year of injury and backsliding? Is Doctson ready for his year three jump?

 

it could be exciting, but it’s also about what ifs vs knowns. 

[Master Blaster]

6 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

All i know is its time for Josh Doctson to step up. Anything less than a 1000 yards is a fail season to me. He had his injury, came back last year & got his rookie season out of the way, Now is the time to become feared. This is a 1st round pick here, its time to start putting up numbers like one.

 

 

If he does, what kind of numbers are you expecting from Reed, Crowder, and Richardson as well as CT out of the backfield?

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

6 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

If he does, what kind of numbers are you expecting from Reed, Crowder, and Richardson as well as CT out of the backfield?

Thats a good point & i know where you are going with this but its not that crazy to believe we or a team could have 3 - 1000 yard receivers. We did 2 and almost 3 in 2016. Pierre Garcon, Djax and Crowder with 800. So for the sake of answering your question...

 

Doctson 1000+

Davis & Reed 1000+ (Will Reed really make a full season ? So both should combine for 1k)

Crowder 600

Richardson 600

CT 500+

Rest of the WR & Backs 400

4100 yards for smith

Edited September 4, 2018 by JoeJacobyHOForRIOT

[Darth Tater]

Crowder dropped big-time in the return game, but as a WR, his season was just a little worse than his norm. Most of his drop off as a WR probably comes from the fact that Pryor+Docston was not even close to Garcon+Jackson while Reed was 50% less available (usually if you cover him properly, Crowder will be open, its just a matter of getting the ball there). Thompson also created a lot of mismatches that Crowder could take advantage of.

 

Docston showed in flashes last year.  Of the receivers, only Vernon Davis got more snaps. He also has shown that he could be a huge red-zone threat and is a much better deep ball guy than most people think (well, DJax did spoil us here).

 

Richardson has shown potential.

 

Harris has shown he at least has the potential to replace Ryan Grant and may prove better.

 

Quinn has shown he is competitive and looks to have potential and is a good blocker.

 

Sims is a physical freak who could end up creating lots of mismatches.

 

Vernon Davis can still beat most safety coverage.  While not a great blocker, you lose a LB against him.

 

Reeds biggest issue is health.  He will kill you if healthy.

 

Thompson is the devil in the backfield.

 

[Master Blaster]

16 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Thats a good point & i know where you are going with this but its not that crazy to believe we or a team could have 3 - 1000 yard receivers. We did 2 and almost 3 in 2016. Pierre Garcon, Djax and Crowder with 800. So for the sake of answering your question...

 

Doctson 1000+

Davis & Reed 1000+ (Will Reed really make a full season ? So both should combine for 1k)

Crowder 600

Richardson 600

CT 500+

Rest of the WR & Backs 400

4100 yards for smith

 

 

That would definitely help in resigning Crowder next year.

 

People would probably be disappointed with RIchardson though 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

11 minutes ago, Master Blaster said:

 

 

That would definitely help in resigning Crowder next year.

 

People would probably be disappointed with RIchardson though 

Im not expecting that much out of Richardson, Not that i think he is bad, I view him as a great addition to this team especially when you consider he is Pryors replacement. We don't need a superstar to replace Pryors production all we need is someone who can make a wide open catch.

[Master Blaster]

4 minutes ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

Im not expecting that much out of Richardson, Not that i think he is bad, I view him as a great addition to this team especially when you consider he is Pryors replacement. We don't need a superstar to replace Pryors production all we need is someone who can make a wide open catch.

 

I’m hoping the threat of him takes the top off the defense a little bit

[Jericho]

The biggest concern about Doctson is his horrific catch rate. It was at 45% last year and slightly worse for his career with his brief 2016 stint. It was stated the only people with worse numbers over their first two years were Breshad Perriman and Corey Coleman. Not company you want to be in. Of course it's a bit of a small sample size as Doctson essentially missed 2016 and barely played the first 5 games of 2017. And he was really bad at the end, only 6 catches on 23 targets his last two games. Though he was only at 53% before those last few games. Which really isn't good. Doctson has room to improve, so hopefully he does. But woof, those aren't good numbers

[TheBlueIndian]

I'm pretty excited about this bunch of guys too. Granted there is no true #1 guy but there is potential in Doctson, Harris and Sims to take that role. There is also a willingness under center to not only push the young guys but school them up a bit too. Time will tell but I feel pretty good with an accomplished veteran in Smith running Jays offense with all of the young guys at wideout.    

[Darth Tater]

7 minutes ago, Jericho said:

The biggest concern about Doctson is his horrific catch rate. It was at 45% last year and slightly worse for his career with his brief 2016 stint. It was stated the only people with worse numbers over their first two years were Breshad Perriman and Corey Coleman. Not company you want to be in. Of course it's a bit of a small sample size as Doctson essentially missed 2016 and barely played the first 5 games of 2017. And he was really bad at the end, only 6 catches on 23 targets his last two games. Though he was only at 53% before those last few games. Which really isn't good. Doctson has room to improve, so hopefully he does. But woof, those aren't good numbers

Catch rate doesn't really mean crap for a WR as the targets include non-catchable throws (for example, when the QB is just throwing the ball out of the end zone), badly thrown passes. More importantly he had 6 TD including 4 in the red zone. His catching does not concern me what concerns me is his route running (another reason someone might have a lot of non-catchable targets) and his blocking (or lack thereof).

[zRifle1z]

36 minutes ago, TheBlueIndian said:

I'm pretty excited about this bunch of guys too. Granted there is no true #1 guy but there is potential in Doctson, Harris and Sims to take that role. There is also a willingness under center to not only push the young guys but school them up a bit too. Time will tell but I feel pretty good with an accomplished veteran in Smith running Jays offense with all of the young guys at wideout.    

Great point. I'm not looking for a true #1 receiver. Just want Smith, our new "point guard," to learn how to surgically use them all to their best potential. 

Edited September 4, 2018 by zRifle1z

[samy316]

Count me in as "Not Excited", but "Nervous" about our receiving corp.  Next to secondary, this is the group I'm concerned with the most.  Alex Smith has only had 3 20+ TD seasons in his 14 year career, but we've surrounded him with unproven talent, and big question marks about ability, especially if we start seeing injuries like we did last year.  If I'm a D Coordinator, I'm not worried in the slightest about our WR Corp, and would stack the box just to dare Smith to throw to these unproven WR's.

 

The question remains whether or not these guys can get the job done, but one thing that should be a big help is the return of Jordan Reed.  If he's healthy, and able to play 10+ games this season, we'll be okay, but if he gets hurt and misses time, we're in big trouble.  I actually think it's more likely that AP rushes for 1000 yds this year, then it is for Alex Smith to throw for 4,000 yds.  The thing that irritates me the most is that we basically threw away the preseason, and didn't give Smith or the WR's time to gel.  If we start off slow again, and struggle to score out of the gate, we should be grabbing our pitchforks and gathering at Redskins Park, because it's ludicrous to trot out a new QB and new WR's, but barely give them time to gel together.  Gruden should be crucified if we struggle to score the first few weeks of the season. 

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Jericho said:

The biggest concern about Doctson is his horrific catch rate. It was at 45%

45% isn't that bad considering that last year Cousins would only throw him 50/50 balls. If you think about it 45 is only 5 percent off.

 

Besides, Cousins all but refused to target him until after both Thompson and Reed went down and when I did (as I suggested before) it was to throw very low percentage bombs at him as if he were DJax. 

[Jericho]

1 hour ago, Darth Tater said:

Catch rate doesn't really mean crap for a WR as the targets include non-catchable throws (for example, when the QB is just throwing the ball out of the end zone), badly thrown passes. More importantly he had 6 TD including 4 in the red zone. His catching does not concern me what concerns me is his route running (another reason someone might have a lot of non-catchable targets) and his blocking (or lack thereof).

 

I'll grant you it's not the end all, be all. Certain receivers (slot) tend to have higher rates than others. And your individual usage is obviously a factor. But when you're that far down the list, it's very concerning. Unless the excuse is Doctson was thrown way more uncatchable balls than any other receiver in the league. Which seems highly unlikely. And I'd say you're right, that other factors of bad WR work (like route running) will bleed into catch rate.

Edited September 4, 2018 by Jericho

[NoCalMike]

I think as a fanbase one thing we are tired of hearing about is "talent level" of players.  We are over and done with hearing about how much potential this or that guy has.  We want to see it translate into the games on a consistent basis.  

 

I don't really care about Gruden giving glowing praise to how hard someone works during practice unless it shows up during the games when it matters.

 

In professional sports, it is about performing at the highest level during the 60 minutes of a game.  Anything else is window dressing.

 

I cut Doctson a lot of slack for his up & down play in 2017 due to him being injured his entire rookie year.  That ain't happening again in 2018.  He was drafted in the 1st round to be a #1 WR.  Anything less and I consider him a bust overall.  It doesn't mean he needs to be a Top 5 WR in the NFL, it just means he needs to establish himself as the caliber of WR that changes a defense's strategy.  A guy who always has to be accounted for.  

 

 

Edited September 4, 2018 by NoCalMike

[HardcoreZorn]

 

https://twitter.com/cianaf/status/970120371818123264

 

Not sure if it means anything or how accurate this is... But I don't recall many flat out drops from Doctson. It does seem like the majority of his targets came on 50/50 chuck it up types but who knows?

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I agree with most of you, it all hinges on Doctson here.  

 

I'm not getting my hopes up, though.  

[jbird2]

20 hours ago, Chachie said:

 

I would like to hear your list of reasons for being excited. It might help me out of my lack of excitement about our WR corps.

 

Personally, I don't think we have anyone at all that inspires fear in opposing defenses except Jordan Reed and he's got to prove he can stay on the field. Chris Thompson seems more of a threat than our WRs.

 

Help me feel better about this, jbird!

I said I feel excited, not confident!!!

 

Excitement stems from #1, Smith seems like he puts his receivers in better position than Cousins did, Historically he seems to use more receivers than locking into Reed & Crowder. We'll see

#2 that means that we will end this season with a clear view of who our #1 really is. I would love for Doc to prove me wrong, but I see him either getting hurt, or getting out-performed by Harris or even Sims. I believe that we are going to see Quinn, Harris, and Sims plugged into the gameplan fairly early and fairly often. 

#3 The lack of a clear primary receiver is going to create a culture of competition for every pass. These guys know their career hinges on their early performance. While a young group they appear pretty level-headed and professional in their approach. This will translate into an every throw matters mentality, and while unproven, this group (4-6) has a much higher talent level than any of our back-up corps have had in the recent past. If it were a rookie QB that needed a Megatron or TO/Moss type to make up for confidence or ability issues, I would be sweating bullets, but in terms of exp and ability to spread it around, "In Smith we Trust" lol

#4 Harris or Sims will emerge as a true #1 or really good #2. Odds are in our favor. Harris has shown all the potential, it has just been too crowded of a WR corp up to this point. 

 

Maybe i need to take off the rose colored specs, but i'm pretty excited going into this year.

Does that help Chachie??

 

15 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I agree with most of you, it all hinges on Doctson here.  

 

I'm not getting my hopes up, though.  

Nahhh, I don't even see Doc being #1 come week 4/5. It all hinges on Harris or Sims emerging. Quinn has more potential than any Mr. Irrelevant ever! lol

[Peregrine]

Yeah, Doctson will be the key, but Richardson will be close behind.  Theres a lot of potential, sure, but potential and reality are two different things.  The likes of Crowder, Harris, Sims can be very effective 3-4-5 guys, but a lot will be set up by both Doctson and Richardson.  Personally, it starts with Richardson in my opinion, but Doctson has to capitalize for it to be a good year for the receiving core.  

 

Richardson can take the top off of defenses, when he starts doing that, coordinators have to adjust, that means more safeties rotating over to his side, following him deep, and sitting deeper at the snap.  That in the end means Doctson will often see 1v1 on the outside deep, and will also have more space underneath to catch the ball.  Richardson will open up space for him, but from that point Doctson has to make the catches.  I'm very hopeful considered Smith also is supposedly a great QB for the likes of Doctson and Richardson, but we shall see...

[skinny21]

17 hours ago, HardcoreZorn said:

https://twitter.com/cianaf/status/970120371818123264

 

Not sure if it means anything or how accurate this is... But I don't recall many flat out drops from Doctson. It does seem like the majority of his targets came on 50/50 chuck it up types but who knows?

 

Small sample size, but I found 3 game videos of Doctson’s targets (Saints, Broncos and Cowboys I think), and I didn’t see many, if any, I would really consider a drop.  Certainly didn’t notice any egregious, in his hands and lost it type of drops anyway.  Definitely a number of close ones though, which explains the catch %.  Poor throws, and good defending were the issues I saw.  Of course, I don’t know if any were due to lackluster routes.  

On the flip side, he made a couple/few impressive catches.  

 

Other thing I noticed (again, small sample) was a variety of routes, and he had success with all of them - wr screen, crossing route, drag, etc.  Didn’t expect that.  

 

 

 

Not letting me delete the Twitter graphic... I forget, do those count as pics?  If so, my apologies.  

Edited September 5, 2018 by skinny21

[Chachie]

24 minutes ago, jbird said:

 

 

Maybe i need to take off the rose colored specs, but i'm pretty excited going into this year.

Does that help Chachie??

 

 

 

 

It does. A little.  ?

 

I just haven't seen anything from this unit except from Crowder, who is not considered a "star receiver." I hope we end up with a nice committee and most importantly I hope Reed's injury-ridden past is behind him. He can be that guy who lightens the coverage on the others.