Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[bobandweave]

19 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

I think Trey Quinn makes it as he looks like he is now our primary PR and he does get snaps with the first team, From everything I've heard, unless Mo Harris' is worse off than we think (then we may IR him), he's pretty much a lock for number 4. We may actually keep 6 wr on the final 53 since we also have guys like Phil Taylor who we probably could cut and will be available later if needed.

 

I don't see Phil Taylor making the 53 regardless of the receiver position. I think based on last year they will keep more offensive linemen so I've already given up on him. 

 

I thought Mo was a lock too but he missed last game so if he misses another has he shown you enough to make it over Quick? I don't like Brian Quick and think he's a terrible receiver but the staff likes him on teams. If they keep Mo then Quick is out. If they need ST help can you trust Mo to be good fit there? Really think spot 4 is between the two

 

Quinn hasn't looked good in games catching the ball, do you think if he went to the Practice Squad anyone else will scoop him up? I hear you about PR but I don't understand. Last year that was Crowders job. Are you saying they aren't letting Crowder field anymore? Once he is back in the lineup I was assuming he would pick up where he left off but maybe I missed something? If say I'm right and it's Crowders job still then do you think that hurts Quinns chances this year at the 53? I think he should be an easy stash for us

2 minutes ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

Has Doctson had a catch yet this preseason?  

 

Yes, Alex hit in for a first down in his one drive two games ago

[Spaceman Spiff]

13 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

 

Yes, Alex hit in for a first down in his one drive two games ago

 

Oh right, how could I forget. ?

[jbird2]

45 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Why do people seem to have this injury fantasy about Doctston? Docston played in all 16 games last season and was on the field more often than all but 4 other guys (and all but 1 of those guys are guys that should get nearly 100% of the snaps!).

 

I guess it is the only valid reason that he could have been the #1 receiver and only got 502 yards receiving last year. 

Didn't realize he played all 16 games.

 

It is insane that our main draft pics the last 2 years will have spent their 1st season on the bench injured.

[jbird2]

Let Doc, P. Rich, Mo and Sims battle it out to see who will emerge as the #1 and #2 and keep Jamison and Trey in the Slot.

 

If Mo goes to IR then Keep Simmie or Quick, but unless you see us competing for a Super Bowl this year, we should be plugging in upside.

[Commander -JB-]

22 hours ago, NickyJ said:

Cam Sims is our best Marko Mitchell since Marko Mitchell.

See, this is what I hate.  Cam Sims has flashed good potential.  Really physically imposing with impact plays in preseason.  Nobody says stuff like this about the Trey Quinn hype.  What has he flashed?  Yet, it seems that the majority of Skins fans would prefer to see Quinn make the roster.  I wonder why SMH

[jbird2]

13 minutes ago, -JB- said:

See, this is what I hate.  Cam Sims has flashed good potential.  Really physically imposing with impact plays in preseason.  Nobody says stuff like this about the Trey Quinn hype.  What has he flashed?  Yet, it seems that the majority of Skins fans would prefer to see Quinn make the roster.  I wonder why SMH

No sir, I agree with you. Sims has WAY more upside. Quinn at his best is a good returner, and a good slot corner. 

 

Sims has shown big play, game changing ability, with the POTENTIAL of being a franchise talent.

 

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, bobandweave said:

 

I don't see Phil Taylor making the 53 regardless of the receiver position. I think based on last year they will keep more offensive linemen so I've already given up on him. 

 

I thought Mo was a lock too but he missed last game so if he misses another has he shown you enough to make it over Quick? I don't like Brian Quick and think he's a terrible receiver but the staff likes him on teams. If they keep Mo then Quick is out. If they need ST help can you trust Mo to be good fit there? Really think spot 4 is between the two

 

Quinn hasn't looked good in games catching the ball, do you think if he went to the Practice Squad anyone else will scoop him up? I hear you about PR but I don't understand. Last year that was Crowders job. Are you saying they aren't letting Crowder field anymore? Once he is back in the lineup I was assuming he would pick up where he left off but maybe I missed something? If say I'm right and it's Crowders job still then do you think that hurts Quinns chances this year at the 53? I think he should be an easy stash for us

 

Yes, Alex hit in for a first down in his one drive two games ago

I just picked Taylor because if we cut him, I am pretty certain he will be available later. Figuring out guys who you can cut and will almost certainly be available later is a way to extend your roster.

 

Mo plays teams already.  Both are not 100% but I definitely think you keep Mo over Quick if that is an issue.  Quick also one who has a lower chance of catching on with another team so may be a candidate for roster expansion but that is very risky,

 

As far as not looking good catching the ball, we must not be talking about the same guy. OK, he hasn't looked great but he has been serviceable and has played quite a few snaps with the number ones.  I do not think we allow Crowder to return punts and Trey looks to be the guy we've decided to have to do that.  The primary use of PS is not about stashing guys, it is a way to expand your roster.

[bobandweave]

16 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

I just picked Taylor because if we cut him, I am pretty certain he will be available later. Figuring out guys who you can cut and will almost certainly be available later is a way to extend your roster.

 

completely agree and that's why with the receivers right now it comes down to who can we put on the PS and no one take? To me between Quinn and Sims

 

Quote

Mo plays teams already.  Both are not 100% but I definitely think you keep Mo over Quick if that is an issue.  Quick also one who has a lower chance of catching on with another team so may be a candidate for roster expansion but that is very risky,

 

As far as not looking good catching the ball, we must not be talking about the same guy. OK, he hasn't looked great but he has been serviceable and has played quite a few snaps with the number ones.

 

He has and through three games he's caught four passes for 38 yards. And he dropped a catchable TD pass in game 2

http://www.nfl.com/player/treyquinn/2560847/profile

 

Now preseason stats don't mean jack, however they can't be completely discarded imo. Sims has 5 catches for 131 yards

http://www.nfl.com/player/camsims/2561067/profile

 

Being that one guys a draft pick and the other isn't does matter most of the time but the last pick in the 7th round over an undrafted player shouldn't be the deciding factor. To me comes down to which guy is more likely to be picked off the PS then the other. Sims at 6'5 outside receiver or Quinn at 6'0 slot receiver? I think and could be wrong that Sims will be taken from them whereas Quinn won't be. 

 

Quote

 

 

I do not think we allow Crowder to return punts and Trey looks to be the guy we've decided to have to do that.  The primary use of PS is not about stashing guys, it is a way to expand your roster.

 

I had not heard that Crowder wasn't going to return punts this year, that's new to me. If your right then that's a huge plus for Quinn making the roster. With Crowder in his contract season I don't personally see why they would have him not continue to return punts with it being 50-50 he is here next year so idk really that's why I asked what you guys thought. Appreciate the dialog

Edited August 29, 2018 by bobandweave

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, jbird said:

 

I guess it is the only valid reason that he could have been the #1 receiver and only got 502 yards receiving last year. 

Didn't realize he played all 16 games.

 

It is insane that our main draft pics the last 2 years will have spent their 1st season on the bench injured.

He wasn't number one for most of the season though he was far and away our best red zone receiving threat.  At first we tried Pryor. Crowder was primary in a several. Even Vernon Davis was primary in at least one. Also, there is a knock on Cousins that he is not good at throwing the types of passes Docston is best at catching.

 

AP was mad a Docston (he didn't directly address that it was Docston but I just watched the highlights) for not maintaining a block on AP's 13 yard run.  AP believes he might have taken that one to the house if Doc keeps his block.  For as big as he is, Docston's main fail seems to be in the blocking department.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Darth Tater

[NickyJ]

1 hour ago, -JB- said:

See, this is what I hate.  Cam Sims has flashed good potential.  Really physically imposing with impact plays in preseason.  Nobody says stuff like this about the Trey Quinn hype.  What has he flashed?  Yet, it seems that the majority of Skins fans would prefer to see Quinn make the roster.  I wonder why SMH

I forgot Trey Quinn existed.....

 

55 minutes ago, jbird said:

Sims has shown big play, game changing ability, with the POTENTIAL of being a franchise talent.

 

And there you go. I don't see anyone throwing "Trey Quinn" and "franchise talent" around in the same sentence. The way people are getting so uptight and anxious about Simms, it just seems like he is literally that one UDFA fan crush that the majority of the site can't imagine going without.

 

I absolutely hope Simms makes the roster, because that would mean he might actually have something. Until then, he's still a UDFA WR that MIGHT make the roster, and Trey Quinn is 1 draft spot away from being a UDFA. I don't have any expectations for either of them.

Edited August 29, 2018 by NickyJ

[Darth Tater]

Simms seems to have a frame that could take about 15-20 pounds.  I wonder if he could take over for Jordan Reed since Reed is basically a WR listed as TE. Don't know if he could block but he can't be much worse than Reed at it.

Edited August 29, 2018 by Darth Tater

[Malapropismic Depository]

11 minutes ago, Darth Tater said:

Simms seems to have a frame that could take about 15-20 pounds.  I wonder if he could take over for Jordan Reed since Reed is basically a WR listed as TE. Don't know if he could block but he can't be much worse than Reed at it.

 

And can't be worse than the experiment of converting Niles Paul from WR to TE.

I mean, with respect to Paul, he was great on special teams, but still too small for TE/FB

[Darth Tater]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

And can't be worse than the experiment of converting Niles Paul from WR to TE.

I mean, with respect to Paul, he was great on special teams, but still too small for TE/FB

I really suspect that Paul was moved to TE more because he wasn't showing he'd be a decent 4th WR but was a guy you want active Sunday for teams.

[HOF44]

6 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Simms seems to have a frame that could take about 15-20 pounds.  I wonder if he could take over for Jordan Reed since Reed is basically a WR listed as TE. Don't know if he could block but he can't be much worse than Reed at it.

No no a 100 Times no.  Cam Sims needs to see some time in the regular season. If he shows there in a limited role like he did in preseason he needs to start.  Best man up. Also if we practice squad him and he’s poached somebody needs fired yesterday. 

[NoCalMike]

I have no idea what Quinn has done to enamor so many people with him.  Not saying he has zero potential, but it seems like a lot of folks are so sure he has a leg up against other bubble WRs and I am not sure why.

[Darth Tater]

22 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

No no a 100 Times no.  Cam Sims needs to see some time in the regular season. If he shows there in a limited role like he did in preseason he needs to start.  Best man up. Also if we practice squad him and he’s poached somebody needs fired yesterday. 

Not saying PS Simms but even if we keep him on the 53, he won't see game time this year unless we get unlucky (I'd even be surprised if he gets activated unless we have injury at WR). Taking Jordan Reed's (or Vernon Davis) position would let him see the field next year which he won't unless Richardson or Docston are busts. Only other way to get playing time would be if he is an excellent blocker (does look like I might be a better blocker than Doc, Richardson or Crowder). Remember Quick was our 5 last year and only played in 11 games (several misses were due to injury but he would have been inactive anyway) despite being an important ST guy. Harris was promoted mostly because Pryor was hurt and looks to have fought his way up to number 4.

 

Unless his injury is more severe than is being let on and the coaches can be believed (versatile enough to backup all 3 WR slots and has been impressive in camp) , Harris is a lock for a 4 spot because that means you only have to have 4 active on most Sundays if Stroman or Johnson somehow got PR duties. Harris has also done both KR and PR duty.

 

16 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I have no idea what Quinn has done to enamor so many people with him.  Not saying he has zero potential, but it seems like a lot of folks are so sure he has a leg up against other bubble WRs and I am not sure why.

 

I don't know why fans are enamored with Quinn either but that is not relevant. The coaches seem to see him as the primary PR guy (as opposed to Stroman or Johnson who would make more sense to me, see above).  He gets more snaps with the number ones than all but the three starting WR. Now, he does look like the best blocker of our WR group (which may be why he was in for the AP plays) and he may really be a placeholder for Harris. Haven't really had time to look at Cam Simms as a blocker but I'd expect he is decent. If Crowder, Stroman or Johnson do end up doing PRs while Harris is healthy, I won't be surprised if Quinn doesn't even make the PS.

 

[skinny21]

I wouldn’t count myself in the group ‘enamored’ with Quinn, but...

1.  He offers our best chance at letting Crowder walk next year 

2.  He might be the best fit as a backup to Crowder this year

3.  He’s drawn a lot of praise for his route running (not just in camp)

4. He’s physical and (apparently) loves danger - a bonus for someone catching the ball over the middle

5. He’s got huge mitts

6. He can man PR

7. He’s got ‘pedigree’

8.  We have a relatively weak wr corp, so any dark horse is liable to catch fan’s eyes and hearts

9. Shouldn’t have any real bearing, but he’s Mr. Irrelevant 

 

Drop the last two ‘sentimental’ reasons, and there’s still a good deal of upside.  

 

[Sandy Monk]

Skinny nailed it pretty well, imo.

 

With Quinn, I think it's more related to what we don't get to see, compared to what the coaching staff sees. There were glowing reports and comments throughout OTAs and TC about him, so it was easy to conclude that the coaches were pretty sold on him.

 

Plus, as Crowder's potential FA depart comes closer, it is easy for people to dream of a world where a cheap but similarly skilled starter can step right into his spot. Then, you consider that he was Mr. Irrelevant, and it would seem that being considered a roster lock, he's already exceeded his draft expectation.

 

I'm already of the belief that Quinn can be a solid # 4 option, so I am not cementing him in as amazing, yet am also not at all considering him on the bubble. With the other WRs on the roster, while they may be good, they sure aren't so great as to make Quinn seem.. irrelevant. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Sandy Monk

[HOF44]

10 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Not saying PS Simms but even if we keep him on the 53, he won't see game time this year unless we get unlucky (I'd even be surprised if he gets activated unless we have injury at WR). Taking Jordan Reed's (or Vernon Davis) position would let him see the field next year which he won't unless Richardson or Docston are busts. Only other way to get playing time would be if he is an excellent blocker (does look like I might be a better blocker than Doc, Richardson or Crowder). Remember Quick was our 5 last year and only played in 11 games (several misses were due to injury but he would have been inactive anyway) despite being an important ST guy. Harris was promoted mostly because Pryor was hurt and looks to have fought his way up to number 4.

 

Unless his injury is more severe than is being let on and the coaches can be believed (versatile enough to backup all 3 WR slots and has been impressive in camp) , Harris is a lock for a 4 spot because that means you only have to have 4 active on most Sundays if Stroman or Johnson somehow got PR duties. Harris has also done both KR and PR duty.

 

 

 

I think he needs to be active and see the field some early in the year.  Then if Doctson shows more inconsistency or is injured you can make an informed decision between him and Harris.  

 

I think that sometimes this organization gets hung up on money paid or draft position used and does not believe it's own eyes.  

 

Some people just come alive under the lights and some wilt.  Sims look like the former.  Only playing time in real games will confirm that though. 

 

The only way I'd have him bulk up to be a TE is if he has proven to me he can't be a WR.  

[Burgold]

17 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

I think he needs to be active and see the field some early in the year.  Then if Doctson shows more inconsistency or is injured you can make an informed decision between him and Harris.  

 

I think that sometimes this organization gets hung up on money paid or draft position used and does not believe it's own eyes.  

 

Some people just come alive under the lights and some wilt.  Sims look like the former.  Only playing time in real games will confirm that though. 

 

The only way I'd have him bulk up to be a TE is if he has proven to me he can't be a WR.  

Yep. The good thing about this receiving corp is that it's all about potential, but that also means that no player has done anything to earn tenure. No one should have a starting position locked up in such a way that it can't be threatened by someone who's out-practicing and out-producing them.

 

I suspect Doctson deserves to be the starter, but if he doesn't produce... maybe give Harris or Sims, or someone else the starting shot. People should earn their position and not have it granted.

[bedlamVR]

Sims has looked good in the limited spotlight of some preseason games against mostly vanilla defences. I like Sims - but when you are looking at the roster you need guys who you know can turn it on again and again and again - and from accounts Sims is - as you would expect a rookie to be - inconsistent - if he makes the team you are carrying him - unless he can make plays on special teams (i think of him as Mo Harris... who this year has found constancy but seems injured a lot) 

 

If Quinn has carved out a spot as the primary PR then that is why he is safe .. Crowder was BAD as PR (two muffed punts last year ?)  and it limits what he can do on the offence as a feature player - i remember them looking for replacements for a while now.  

[HOF44]

3 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Yep. The good thing about this receiving corp is that it's all about potential, but that also means that no player has done anything to earn tenure. No one should have a starting position locked up in such a way that it can't be threatened by someone who's out-practicing and out-producing them.

 

I suspect Doctson deserves to be the starter, but if he doesn't produce... maybe give Harris or Sims, or someone else the starting shot. People should earn their position and not have it granted.

I imagine Doctson knows the playbook better and makes less mistakes in practice.  But he NEEDS to produce on the field.  In the end that's ALL that really matters.  Coaches sometimes get so caught up in practice performance that they don't allow for the fact that some guys due to either adrenaline or personality just explode under the lights.  That needs to be considered.

1 minute ago, bedlamVR said:

Sims has looked good in the limited spotlight of some preseason games against mostly vanilla defences. I like Sims - but when you are looking at the roster you need guys who you know can turn it on again and again and again - and from accounts Sims is - as you would expect a rookie to be - inconsistent - if he makes the team you are carrying him - unless he can make plays on special teams (i think of him as Mo Harris... who this year has found constancy but seems injured a lot) 

 

 

Can't disagree with this, I just think you have to sprinkle him in the first half of the year in certain packages and if that goes great the second half of the year you can expand his role IF it appears warranted.  

[jbird2]

12 hours ago, skinny21 said:

I wouldn’t count myself in the group ‘enamored’ with Quinn, but...

1.  He offers our best chance at letting Crowder walk next year 

2.  He might be the best fit as a backup to Crowder this year

3.  He’s drawn a lot of praise for his route running (not just in camp)

4. He’s physical and (apparently) loves danger - a bonus for someone catching the ball over the middle

5. He’s got huge mitts

6. He can man PR

7. He’s got ‘pedigree’

8.  We have a relatively weak wr corp, so any dark horse is liable to catch fan’s eyes and hearts

9. Shouldn’t have any real bearing, but he’s Mr. Irrelevant 

 

Drop the last two ‘sentimental’ reasons, and there’s still a good deal of upside.  

 

 

not a Quinn hater by any stretch, but I would counter with...

 

1.  He offers our best chance at letting Crowder walk next year So, we have a replacement for a slot receiver, Sims has the tools to be our #1

2.  He might be the best fit as a backup to Crowder this year  Sims might be a replacement for Doc or Richardson. The redzone threat we have always longed for. (Throw the fade anyone?...)

3.  He’s drawn a lot of praise for his route running (not just in camp)  Sims has lead preseason stats. He has drawn praise from our starting QB. He has looked big, strong and fast all camp

4. He’s physical and (apparently) loves danger - a bonus for someone catching the ball over the middle Sims is big, fast and physical. Turns 50-50 balls into 90-10. Can you see the match-up challenges when we play a 5'11" cornerback? 

5. He’s got huge mitts You like big mitts? pretty sure Sims has Quinn covered, but ok..

6. He can man PR Quinn over Sims everyday of the week, but Stroman, Crowder, half a dozen others can man PR with no real drop in production. Quinn is not a dangerous home-run threat at this stage. Can he be? Sure?? But so could Stroman, Crowder etc... Sims has the makings of our biggest Redzone target. I'll take 5-8 more TD's a season over 5-8 more yards on returns every day

7. He’s got ‘pedigree’ Ok? if we were breeding WR's that would be a huge advantage...

8.  We have a relatively weak wr corp, so any dark horse is liable to catch fan’s eyes and hearts Sims has caught eyes, and put up #'s

9. Shouldn’t have any real bearing, but he’s Mr. Irrelevant Sims started camp more irrelevant than Mr Irrelevant! 

 

[jbird2]

20 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Simms seems to have a frame that could take about 15-20 pounds.  I wonder if he could take over for Jordan Reed since Reed is basically a WR listed as TE. Don't know if he could block but he can't be much worse than Reed at it.

 

If we can get Trent Williams a touch faster, he would be the best Fullback in the league and Peterson might eclipse 800 yards.... /sarcasm

 

Although Sims would probably be on the field more due to health than Reed so maybe you have something....

 

[Spearfeather]

1 hour ago, jbird said:

 

 

5. He’s got huge mitts You like big mitts? pretty sure Sims has Quinn covered, but ok..

 

 

 

Actually, no. No he doesn't.

 

Sims - 10 

Quinn - 10 1/8

 

 

 

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