Redskins receiving corp is beginning to shape up

[bobandweave]

Can't get on board with drafting a WR no matter how badly we need some. The issue with it is that since Snyder came here they have drafted 19 WR's and none of them were very good. We think that Crowder is good and that Trey Quinn is going to be good but if they weren't on this team would we still think that? Maybe maybe not. We can't spot receiver talent in the draft and it work out for them. Rather pick up receivers in Free Agency and not waste the draft pick personally. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Floyd mastering the X and Z position.   Supposedly, Harris will get most of the reps tonight according to what Craig Hoffman guessed but Floyd might get some action.

2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

Can't get on board with drafting a WR no matter how badly we need some. The issue with it is that since Snyder came here they have drafted 19 WR's and none of them were very good. We think that Crowder is good and that Trey Quinn is going to be good but if they weren't on this team would we still think that? Maybe maybe not. We can't spot receiver talent in the draft and it work out for them. Rather pick up receivers in Free Agency and not waste the draft pick personally. 

 

or spy on the Steelers who do they like?  ?  In our division the Giants are decent at scoping out Wrs but they've had some misses.

[bobandweave]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

or spy on the Steelers who do they like?  ?  In our division the Giants are decent at scoping out Wrs but they've had some misses.

 

Steelers ploy wouldn't work because we don't have Ben or that offense coming with the pick.

 

Giants have crushed us at drafting receivers and it pains me to say that. None of our draft picks ever made it to a pro bowl or All pro since Snyder took over. Not one. Our best receivers since Snyder took control have all been free agents. 

 

To me it's like chasing unicorns finding a receiver in the draft. Problem is I just looked into next years FA's and it's not a pretty sight

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

 

The best are too old and the younger guys are all wild cards. Its ugly

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Steelers ploy wouldn't work because we don't have Ben or that offense coming with the pick.

 

Giants have crushed us at drafting receivers and it pains me to say that. None of our draft picks ever made it to a pro bowl or All pro since Snyder took over. Not one. Our best receivers since Snyder took control have all been free agents. 

 

To me it's like chasing unicorns finding a receiver in the draft. Problem is I just looked into next years FA's and it's not a pretty sight

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/all/wide-receiver/

 

The best are too old and the younger guys are all wild cards. Its ugly

 

As for FA.  Golden Tate is 30 but when he's on he's good.  Maybe Benjamin rediscovers his way? 

 

Yeah its been a weird journey we had one of the best receiver crew in 2016 to now having one of the weakest.   I was among the people who wanted to resign D. Jax.  And I am not even as negative as some on the guys we got in house but we still don't have even close to a true #1 WR. 

 

If I recall you liked C. Ridley in the draft.  He's looking like a true #1.  He was very polished as to route running as a receiver in college so maybe that's part of the formula to unlocking the draft riddle.

 

I noticed the NFL,con article suggested we should trade for TY Yelton.  I am not adverse to trading for a receiver because like you I don't trust they'd easily figure it out on their own -- as you mentioned they aren't hot drafting them and in FA Bruce doesn't typically like to sign top shelf guys.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Skinsinparadise

[KillBill26]

4 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

I'm done with Doctson.  Straight up, just tired of him.  He's the new 50-50, but instead of catching passes it's for seeing the field.  

When you see Michael Thomas tearing it up tonight, remember we could have taken him over doctson. I even remember being linked to him in the weeks leading up to the draft.

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2016/3/18/11262178/report-redskins-targeting-wr-michael-thomas

 

I know hindsight is 20 20 and all that, but man what a difference that would've been.  

[bobandweave]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As for FA.  Golden Tate is 30 but when he's on he's good.  Maybe Benjamin rediscovers his way? 

 

We can't sign 30 yo receivers, wasn't that the reason they let Desean and Pierre go? They were too old. 

 

Quote

 

Yeah its been a weird journey we had one of the best receivers crew in 2016 to now having one of the weakest.   I was among the people who wanted to resign D. Jax.  And I am not even as negative as some on the guys we got but we still don't have even close to a true #1 WR. 

 

I was on the side of signing them both back, if you pressed me for just one guy I would have said Garcon. After seeing him get injured again yesterday the logical side of me thinks we did the right thing letting him go as that's happened the past two seasons to him. Still the homer in me says I still miss his swagger and see that as a desperate need for the receivers.  

 

 

Quote

If I recall you liked C. Ridley in the draft.  He's looking like a true #1.  He was very polished as a route running as a receiver in college so maybe that's part of the formula to unlocking the draft riddle.

 

I was beating my drum about us targeting him pre-draft. Dude looks like a stud and if he wasn't lining up next to the best receiver in the game today he would have even better stats then he already does. Don't hate or even dislike the actual player we took but at the time I thought we could sign Hankins to shore up the middle of the line and get the drafts best receiver. People disagreed with me about that possibility saying he would cost too much but look he ended up signing a one year 2 million dollar deal. We could have had them both instead of just Payne but shoulda woulda couldas right 

 

 

Quote

 

I noticed the NFL,con article suggested we should trade for TY Yelton.  I am not adverse to trading for a receiver because like you I don't trust they'd easily figure it out on their own -- as you mentioned they aren't hot drafting them and in FA Bruce doesn't typically like to sign top shelf guys.

 

Do you mean TJ Yeldon as in the Jaguars running back or TY Hilton as in Andrew Lucks #1? 

Edited October 8, 2018 by bobandweave

[Skinsinparadise]

26 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

We can't sign 30 yo receivers, wasn't that the reason they let Desean and Pierre go? They were too old. 

 

 

Desean is burning it up, I'd kill to have him here.  No rule that we can't sign someone over 30 -- just because they didn't last time.  I'd rather have someone young but beggers can't be choosers.  

 

I doubt they expected this to happen.  I recall beat guys saying Jay wanted Desean back but the FO wasn't on board to the same extent.  But in their defense I do think they gave Desean an offer but it wasn't big enough.

 

Bruce said in an interview at the time that they lost production with Desean and Garcon but they replaced it with almost equal production from Quick and Pryor.  And beat guys said internally they thought Crowder was their best WR at the time they let Garcon and Desean go.   

 

So I think they are surprised that Crowder hasn't really emerged as a big time star.  ditto Doctson who has much further to go. Quick was just a guy and Pryor a bust.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, jbird said:

 

Cause our fellas (WR's) are fairly pedestrian and 1 dimensional.

 

 

There's certainly some truth to this but Smith didn't seem very prone to going to WRs in general until he had an elite deep threat in Hill, who is so fast that he almost always has at least a few steps on the DB covering him. Alex is obviously pretty risk averse so maybe he doesn't go to WRs deep unless they're very open. Though, he had that pass to Richardson where he was only marginally open...so I guess it depends. 

[bobandweave]

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Desean is burning it up, I'd kill to have him here.  No rule that we can't sign someone over 30 -- just because they didn't last time.  I'd rather have someone young but beggers can't be choosers.

 

It would go against the way this front office has been doing business signing older players but like you said it could happen. And since the front office is so reactionary and they have found success with the 30+ yo Peterson I would think they could change that next season and sign an older receiver. 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Bruce said in an interview at the time that they lost production with Desean and Garcon but they replaced it with almost equal production from Quick and Pryor.  And beat guys said internally they thought Crowder was their best WR at the time they let Garcon and Desean go.   

 

God that interview should have been enough to fire Bruce Allen. No team wants the guy running the show to be that idiotic do they? Just shows me their is nothing Bruce could do to get fired around here. I am sad now

 

 

[JSSkinz]

Such a reach that this debate still goes on, we had plenty of chances to get younger, better WR's since the time we let Garcon and DJAX go, we just didn't take advantage of those situations and we went cheap in free agency.

 

Garcon has done absolutely nothing and it took DJAX a full season to learn how to get open and he has one of the best WR's in the NFL playing the other side.

 

DJAX catches about 4 balls a game, he's a compliment, he's not an A Brown, Hopkins, Thielen, Jones, Diggs, Beckham, JuJu, Evans, or Thomas, we need a grinder who stays healthy and can be active and get out in space even when the route isn't there, DJAX isn't that guy.

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So I think they are surprised that Crowder hasn't really emerged as a big time star.  ditto Doctson who has much further to go. Quick was just a guy and Pryor a bust.

Yep, they went all in on these guys and they are either busts or just average players.

Edited October 8, 2018 by JSSkinz

[JSSkinz]

46 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

It would go against the way this front office has been doing business signing older players but like you said it could happen. And since the front office is so reactionary and they have found success with the 30+ yo Peterson I would think they could change that next season and sign an older receiver. 

The big difference is the money, we got AP for a bus pass and DJAX is getting $11M this year, I'm sure if we knew more about the direction of  Kirks contract we may have made a better attempt at keeping him but even then I'm not so sure. I still think he's an overrated 1 trick pony.

 

I live in Tampa so I'm not in the dark on their team and why he is prospering this year.

[bobandweave]

1 minute ago, JSSkinz said:

The big difference is the money, we got AP for a bus pass and DJAX is getting $11M this year, I'm sure if we knew more about the direction of  Kirks contract we may have made a better attempt at keeping him but even then I'm not so sure. I still think he's an overrated 1 trick pony.

 

I live in Tampa so I'm not in the dark on their team and why he is prospering this year.

 

Ah we are both far away fans of the Redskins. That's very cool to me. I'm in DFW Texas myself. 

 

About the salary well I agree that it was much more expensive to pay for Jackson then Peterson, but the team was slow to even entertain signing Peterson until it was obvious that they had to do something there. They didn't target him in FA, they waited until the last moments to hire him. And yes his money is almost vet minimum but the difference here and signing a 30 yo free agent receiver like Tate (I like Golden btw) is the markets will be in much higher demand for Tate then the market was for AP. I expect Tate to get Garcon money (was more then Deseans) this offseason and the team to be cheap with that route because they are always cheap. 

 

If they can sign a vet WR for cheap then they will do it. Hell they just did that twice since the season started. Which is why I think that the team will likely sign Junior Gallette this season, he will come hella cheap now. But to pay up for an older guy this team hasn't done that since when? Not for many years. 

 

About Desean isn't it nuts how one QB can use Desean correctly where as another QB can't? Desean with Fitzpatrick was exciting. Desean with Winston is going to be another snoozefest. 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, KillBill26 said:

When you see Michael Thomas tearing it up tonight, remember we could have taken him over doctson. I even remember being linked to him in the weeks leading up to the draft.

 

https://www.hogshaven.com/2016/3/18/11262178/report-redskins-targeting-wr-michael-thomas

 

I know hindsight is 20 20 and all that, but man what a difference that would've been.  

 

Yeah, I get it.  And..ugh, I just hate the "We could have taken player X over player Y" argument.  (I'm not slamming you when I say that).   We act like we're the only franchise that ever whiffed on draft picks when every team can say the same thing.  We weren't the only ones to pass on Michael Thomas.  Or Tom Brady.  Or Adrian Peterson.  Or Aaron Rodgers.  

 

Maybe that's just a coping mechanism that I keep telling myself when I see posts like that.  It's frustrating, no doubt.  The other coping mechanism I tell myself is, "Maybe Michael Thomas wouldn't have worked here," or something similar.

 

It's just frustrating cause last year Doctson flashed a little bit.  I was hoping for 60-70 catches this year for 850-1000 yards and 6+ touchdowns.  Was hoping he was going to build on what he did last year but instead he's just a ghost.  He's a non-factor.  And now, he's having another injury issue.

 

I saw Doug Williams' statement and while that means something coming from a franchise legend, Super Bowl MVP and overall gritty guy who overcame a **** ton of adversity...I just roll my eyes.  If Doctson was a productive guy like Jordan Reed, I'd be more tolerant of the injuries.  Let's be real, we only tolerate (some of us don't) Jordan Reed and his Mr. Glass routine because he's a game changer when he's on the field and adds a dimension to the offense.  Can't say the same about Doctson.  

 

He's still on a rookie contract so he's still relatively cheap but we need to make other plans at the WR role.  If he turns it around, great.  But if I am the GM of the Redskins I can't afford to look at the future of this team and the WR position and include Doctson as a key component.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Spaceman Spiff

[JSSkinz]

1 minute ago, bobandweave said:

 

Ah we are both far away fans of the Redskins. That's very cool to me. I'm in DFW Texas myself. 

 

About the salary well I agree that it was much more expensive to pay for Jackson then Peterson, but the team was slow to even entertain signing Peterson until it was obvious that they had to do something there. They didn't target him in FA, they waited until the last moments to hire him. And yes his money is almost vet minimum but the difference here and signing a 30 yo free agent receiver like Tate (I like Golden btw) is the markets will be in much higher demand for Tate then the market was for AP. I expect Tate to get Garcon money (was more then Deseans) this offseason and the team to be cheap with that route because they are always cheap. 

 

If they can sign a vet WR for cheap then they will do it. Hell they just did that twice since the season started. Which is why I think that the team will likely sign Junior Gallette this season, he will come hella cheap now. But to pay up for an older guy this team hasn't done that since when? Not for many years. 

 

About Desean isn't it nuts how one QB can use Desean correctly where as another QB can't? Desean with Fitzpatrick was exciting. Desean with Winston is going to be another snoozefest. 

Yep, moved away from the DMV in 2004, as for Tate I like him more than DJAX because he's more active, he can make the big play but also understands how to get open underneath and will go across the middle.  I doubt our FO will go after him because like you said that market is thin and those FA WR's have tons of leverage so he's gonna be expensive and I doubt he signs a 1 or 2-year deal that allows us some freedom.

 

But Tate is more of what I would like to see on our team, the guy hasn't had less than 90 catches since 2013 compared to Desean who hasn't made more than 56 catches since the 2013 season and its not like DJAX has him on yards, from 2013 - 2017 Tate has over 400 more yards receiving while DJAX has 2 more TD's than Tate in that same period.

[Spaceman Spiff]

3 hours ago, bobandweave said:

Can't get on board with drafting a WR no matter how badly we need some. The issue with it is that since Snyder came here they have drafted 19 WR's and none of them were very good. We think that Crowder is good and that Trey Quinn is going to be good but if they weren't on this team would we still think that? Maybe maybe not. We can't spot receiver talent in the draft and it work out for them. Rather pick up receivers in Free Agency and not waste the draft pick personally. 

 

This should be the draft strategy for the Redskins and WRs:

 

 

[Stadium-Armory]

My theory on building your WR room. If you don't have a great all purpose guy (like Antonio Brown), the next best person to have is a burner who's speed must be respected. Like D-Jax. If you have a guy who draws safety coverage, it opens up other guys. You can then survive with pedestrian receivers because they receive less attention. The worst combination is to have average guys, none of whom draw down field coverage. That's why I think we should have kept D-Jax. Maybe Richardson is that guy but I'm not convinced.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Stadium-Armory

[bobandweave]

This is his shot

 

@FantasyLabsNFL: Maurice Harris will start in place of Josh Doctson (heel, out) Monday night. https://t.co/teA6SBQWuE

m.twitter.com/FantasyLabsNFL

[jbird2]

11 hours ago, jbird said:

MO Harris!!! Breakout game against the saints!

MO Harris!! More of the same against the saints!

157 Yards with 2 TD!

15 Yards with 8 drops!

 

Need to draft a new WR in Round 1, 2, and 3 next year!

 

 

Sorry Mo, As of 2:32 in the 3rd you only have 6 yards and 1 catch on 6 targets......

Still the 4th Quarter to get those last 2 drops, not sure if you will be able to scratch out another 9 yards.....

[Playaction2Sanders]

Richardson is good for like a couple catches before he gets hurt. He's the only one we can make any kind of big play..Other than that this is looking like our least productive receiving corps since the '93 team..And they were crazy bad...

[justice98]

7 hours ago, jbird said:

 

Sorry Mo, As of 2:32 in the 3rd you only have 6 yards and 1 catch on 6 targets......

Still the 4th Quarter to get those last 2 drops, not sure if you will be able to scratch out another 9 yards.....

 

As bad as Smith played, it's hard to judge anybody.  

 

I still think he showed more than Doctson has this year.  3 for 47, and he was open for a TD when Smith threw the INT.  

[RandyHolt]

We tried to feature Mo. We went deep to him on the first play of the game.  But 4 catches is the ceiling for all our WRs with Alex.

 

You know what shakes up a defense, and makes a WRs job easier? Hurry up.  It kills subs which gasses the DL. It forces the D to either run the same D over and over, or if they change it risks a blown coverage by not having the full play clock to get set presnap.  I don't think we tried hurry up at all yet were being blown out most of the entire game.

 

It always seems like our opponents backups look better than our starters.  Most recently, Smith and Cameron Meredith. I wish we could have grabbed Meredith. Floyd of course was a total non factor.

 

Smith looked drunk when our WRs were open. Otherwise it seemed like our WRs faced tight man (no respect) and they struggled to get open.

 

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by RandyHolt

[Reaper Skins]

Available free agents

John Brown - 19 receptions, 346 yards, 3 TDs

Ryan Grant - 24 receptions, 246 yards, 1 TD

 

 

Redskins Team Leaders

J Crowder - 13 receptions, 134 yards, 1 TD

P. Richardson - 13 receptions, 181 yards, 1 TD

[justice98]

52 minutes ago, Reaper Skins said:

Available free agents

John Brown - 19 receptions, 346 yards, 3 TDs

Ryan Grant - 24 receptions, 246 yards, 1 TD

 

 

Redskins Team Leaders

J Crowder - 13 receptions, 134 yards, 1 TD

P. Richardson - 13 receptions, 181 yards, 1 TD

 

Brown and Grant both played an extra game, but I get your point.  Crowder and Richardson arent catching 10 balls for 130 yards any week.  lol

 

But it kinda gets worse:

Michael Crabtree - 24 receptions, 250 yards, 1 TD

 

Cameron Meredith - 9 receptions, 114 yards  1 TD (and he didnt play the first 2 weeks)

 

Sammy Watkins - 20 receptions, 254 yards, 1 TD

 

Allen Robinson - 19 receptions, 217 yards, 1 TD

 

Donte Moncrief - 18 receptions, 249 yards, 2 TD

 

Willie Snead - 23 receptions, 253 yards, 1 TD

 

Even taking the bye into account for an extra week's worth of stats in most cases, the amount of available WRs this past offseason that are exceeding what our guys are doing is amazing.  And some of these guys arent really even that great.  

 

I say all that to say, it probably helps greatly to have a QB that looks for the WRs first, second, and third.  Our two top receivers are the TE (even after a 1 catch effort last night) and the RB.  I think that's only partly due to WR ineptitude.  I think a big chunk of it is on the QB's sensibilities.  

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by justice98

[dyst]

The guy that created this thread, unfortunately thinks similarly to what our front office thinks. Now that is dangerous. It's one thing for fans to feel this is a good receiving corps, but it's utterly baffling that the organization thought so as well. 

[skinny21]

I think they should call Kidsy up from the PS... I mean, I could be totally wrong, but he looked like he has some speed to him as well as the suddenness to get away from defenders.  Going with bigger guys that canÂ’t separate isnÂ’t working well for us.  

 

Of course, he’s more of a slot guy, so not sure how we’d fit him in... (unless we play Crowder outside or only play him situationally).