Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, Vladimir L said:

and we get alex a deep threat thats legit!

 

Richardson made a play today for him. 

[Vladimir L]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Richardson made a play today for him. 

 

still need a legit wr who can get us 100 yard games

 

this team seems to do well with geriatric players on offense maybe a stop gap  vet

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

He did great today. He showed emotion and Made most of the right reads today. Stuck it in there in those 2 TD passes.. He was $Money.

[clskinsfan]

5 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

I know you may need a shoulder to cry on after that INT and 3 fumbles by your boy, we're here for you buddy. LOL

 

Bills 27- Vikes 6 ?

 

You wont see Pete in here this week. The bubble just popped on his agenda BIG TIME. Might have cracked one of the lenses on those sun glasses he is so proud of.

[Skinsinparadise]

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I believe better QBs provide more opportunities to be in positions to win games. Call this being a winner or good, same thing for me. The elite can shoulder more responsibility and deserve any pay. Alex and his teams have been in positions to win in the majority of games he’s played in.

 

 

 

How do you chicken and egg it and isolate the variable of QB?  Andy Reid is known for example as a winner.  Jim Harbaugh in SF, too.  So when he's had those coaches Alex is a winner.   But before that he was a loser?   That's how it runs down if you go through his career mark.  Both Harbaugh and Reid have built good teams.  They both had success AFTER Alex left too.  Harbaugh had his best season after he jettisoned Alex.  Looks like Reid might be poised to do the same.

 

None of that is a shot at Alex.  None of it really has anything to do with Alex.  It's about the theory of winning and losing QBs.  I don't think there is such a thing -- I think there are good and bad Qbs.  Yeah some have that "it" factor in big games.  That's not been Alex's rep. But regardless, he does enough to win.  I said on this thread multiple times that Alex is a playoff QB if he has a playoff roster.  If this team won't make the playoffs it won't be because of his play but others not being up to snuff.  Said so many times.

 

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

As I continue to learn about Alex, this appears to be his goal in games— be in position/have an opportunity to win weekly. Some like to call this winning football, and for Alex AND teams winning has taken place often.

 

 

 

Which QBs goals aren't centered on putting their teams in position to win?  And if so I'd presume their coaches would dump them pretty fast.

 

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

 

I like the misdirection stuff and maximizing Smiths abilities, but not at the rate Reid runs it. It fizzles out over time and defenses seem to adjust. Chiefs first two games last year scored 69 points, this year its 82 (or close to it), let’s see how it plays out. They were all the rage last year at this time as well.

 

(I would love an Andy Reid offense with all the “razzle dazzle” stuff with a 4.4 speed guy at QB).  

 

 

One of the Alex games I rewatched was the Patriots one from last year.  That was arguably not only Alex's best game that season but might have been the best one of his career.  Kareem Hunt in that game had almost 250 yards total.  A lot of razzle-dazzle misdirection in that one.  I've beaten like a drum this off season, if Alex emerges as an upgrade it will likely be because of the running game, RPOs, etc.  So far in both wins the running game was heavily a factor.  Granted yesterday it was more straight forward north-south Peterson grinding it on the ground.    To my eyes, so far I don't see how Alex is an upgrade in arm talent and by that I don't just mean arm strength.  But the running game has been better.  Maybe that's coincidence because Peterson > R. Kelley and Perine.  But nonetheless, its better so I am not taking that away am sticking to it on his behalf.  ?

 

19 hours ago, wit33 said:

but banking on Alex having a positive impact at 9% of the cap and roughly 10% over the next 3 years. 

 

To a much larger point, if the team plummets this year, I will have been wrong about the direction of the team and changes must take place. As much as I’d hate to endure another turnover. Yuck! I will own this if it takes place. 

 

 

I have been beating to death for months that I have a hard time getting a feel for the roster.  Frankly, yesterday didn't change that.  I had a good feeling about yesterday the closer we got to it and said so on a thread.  Bouncing back from a bad game has been a hallmark for the last few years.  I want to see them win a couple of big games consecutively.  And to the point of our discussion, I don't think that burden is all on Alex or any QB.  It's the whole team showing up.

 

The only point I am fairly confident about is this isn't a Superbowl roster.  Though I'd love to be wrong on that.  Depending on the week and including even on this thread, I've been this team is an 11-5 one, all the way down to 6-10 after Guice's injury.  If Peterson is his old self and its looking more and more that he might be -- that's my biggest ray of optimism because I've thought the lack of running game has been what has derailed this team in recent years along with their inability to stop the run.  Not too many teams win in December let alone make the playoffs who can't run the ball or stop the run. 

 

If they tread in the 7-9-9-7 range for the next three years, it was a big time wasted trade IMO. Not saying that will be the case.  I don't know.  But I don't have a lot of confidence that this is going to be a great team this year or next.  And that's not a whit because of Alex but the rest of the roster.  And its not that I think we have a bad roster, It's a decent one.  But I don't think you have enough game breakers where its special.  My disclaimer to that is if Reed and Thompson stay healthy the whole season. If that happens, that would get my attention.  In other words, instead if having a bad luck year with injuries, they'd have a really good luck year as to injuries. 

 

You put him in Jax, they likely go 12-4.  

[Sandy Monk]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Which QBs goals aren't centered on putting their teams in position to win?  And if so I'd presume their coaches would dump them pretty fast.

 

Maybe his meaning was that some or many QBs are selfish.. and take risks for personal glory, versus be smart and cautious. I dunno, just a guess on what he/she is thinking.. and it's something to consider. Maybe. 

 

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To my eyes, so far I don't see how Alex is an upgrade in arm talent

 

Rhaaaaa!!!! there you go with an upgrade to Kirk again! ? ( all good, whatever )

 

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The only point I am fairly confident about is this isn't a Superbowl roster. 

 

Aw man, what? I don't get this. I'm not purchasing tickets at this point, but why do you leave no room for further improvement? They are winning 2/3 games so far while also seeing where the issues are. Are they really so incapable of noting and fixing the issues? I don't know man. Just feels too early to say something like this. ( hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, not ) 

 

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

If they tread in the 7-9-9-7 range for the next three years, it was a big time wasted trade IMO. Not saying that will be the case.  I don't know.  But I don't have a lot of confidence that this is going to be a great team this year or next. 

 

One week at a time, for me. I don't see any need to look far ahead at all. 

[Sandy Monk]

16 hours ago, Vladimir L said:

I dont know if its Alex fault or Gruden fault but this game and the Arizona game we started out very good....but we slow down in the 2nd half

 

This is a great question, really. From what I hear around here, this is typical Jay, but I also believe it's Alex as well. Smith is always known as the good and loyal soldier, so he's pretty much going to do what he's instructed to do. He may get a little more defiant these days, since his career is winding up, and he's got to be getting sick of holding back. That last part, I dunno. Just a guess; could be projecting. 

 

Frustrating or not, if it works it works. If and when it doesn't? They have to eat it. 

 

I hope that at least they will use this extra time to heal up, and really dig into everything they're not getting right. If they start to get these things right more consistently, we will see a lot more of what they are capable of (AZ and GB first halves). 

[justice98]

10 hours ago, Vladimir L said:

 

still need a legit wr who can get us 100 yard games

 

this team seems to do well with geriatric players on offense maybe a stop gap  vet

 

You see these WRs around the league getting 15-20 targets every week.  That must be nice to have a guy that won so much that you could feed like that. 

 

When we futilely tried to feed Doctson at the end of last year, he caught 6 out of 23.  Fellow 2016 draft class mate Michael Thomas is out here catching 38 of 42 and dominating. 

 

Side note, Thomas has a catch percentage of 83%. That's obscene.  This dude needs to be mentioned in that elite class with OBJ, Julio, AB, Hopkins, et al.  

 

Anyway, I digress, back to our bums.  I dont know if Gruden would know what to do with a guy that could win 1 on 1 every time and couldnt be taken out of the game by the defense.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Maybe his meaning was that some or many QBs are selfish.. and take risks for personal glory, versus be smart and cautious. I dunno, just a guess on what he/she is thinking.. and it's something to consider. Maybe. 

 

I think I get his point.  Jeff George for example in his day was seen as a selfish QB.  I disagree with the premise that the TYPICAL QB would for example take risks for personally glory regardless if it costs the team.  There aren't too many QBs who got Monday hero worship after a loss. 

 

23 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

 

Rhaaaaa!!!! there you go with an upgrade to Kirk again! ? ( all good, whatever )

 

 

Obviously its not good. ? Judging by your posts for months its a button with you.  But to me I don't see how you can even have a dog in that fight let alone get irritated by it.  But all good, whatever. ? And my post didn't even say Kirk > Alex.  I talked about what I liked better from Kirk and actually talked about what I liked better from Alex.  I said before this game and all off season, I don't know if Kirk is better than Alex.  I suspect he is.  But am cool with people on both sides of the argument.  The season IMO needs to play out for the verdict.  And heck yeah to me its relevant and I've explained why. 

 

23 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

but why do you leave no room for further improvement?

 

That's a strawman argument. My point wasn't about whether they can't improve.  I'd look silly if I were making that case.

 

The reason why I don't see this as a Superbowl roster (different point by the way then playoffs which I've said many times is possible) is they don't have enough game changing stud players.  They have a lot of good players but not a lot of great IMO.   To me (and I said this well-before yesterday) its Jonathan Allen, Jordan Reed, Chris Thompson.  I thought Guice but now that he's out maybe Peterson?  And Reed and Thompson -- especially Reed aren't known for their durability.  Reed is their only game changing receiver and its typically a miracle to get him to last the season -- ironically the last time he played most of the year they made the playoffs   

 

I mean this in good spirits but you were among the concerned last week about Jay and this roster, the offensive line.  I was relatively upbeat in comparison at least in the context of the upcoming game.  I even told you on the Jay quote thread, Jay's teams tend to bounce back well from bad losses.   So the tone here of you bucking me up seems a bit out of place.  

[Sandy Monk]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

So the tone here of you bucking me about the roster seems a bit out of place.  

 

Bucking you? Tone?

 

Okay **** forget it. I thought you were more approachable about discussion, but if so easily ruffled, just forget it, no problem. 

[DJHJR86]

16 hours ago, Bacon said:

Where are all the Cousins fans that were stuffing my notifications last week?

 

People who think there's an enormous gap in quality between these two are deluding themselves. We're a run-first team and Alex Smith screws up less often with less locker room drama.  

 

I'm still here, and I still think we downgraded at the position.  

[Morneblade]

I much prefer the AS we saw yesterday than from a week ago. The pass to Richardson wasn't a great one. In fact if the safety doesn't loose the ball and end up taking the CB out, it's an int.

 

But I don't care. At least he pushed the ball deep. When you do that, good things can happen. You get a lot of PI calls, you get completions and you make the defense think. Even if it was not a great throw, Richardson bailed him out, and we got a TD out of it.

 

The other 2 relatively deep throws, to Reed and Davis, were excellent. Not super hard throws, but they were right on target for both guys to get a ton of YAC. Loved it!

 

I'd like to see Alex push the ball at least 3-4 times a game, just to make the Defense think about it. This will help open up the short to medium range passing game Alex is very good at, and help Peterson get going. And lets face it, when Peterson is running well, this team is tough to stop.

[NoCalMike]

You take what the Defense gives you. On Rodgers one deep TD pass of the game it was on a busted coverage to a guy wide open without a defender even in the camera shot. No one will quantify his stat line because of that.

 

When Smith threw that 46 yard TD pass, I thought it was going to be deflected or possibly picked because there were two guys on Richardson.  Smith, intentionally or not, kind of threw it to an area that allowed Richardson to be the guy to make a play on it.  Richardson definitely adjusted to that ball once he got a bearing on where it was going to fall, but that is what you do when you have trust in your WRs, you take chances like that.  The 50 yard pass to Vernon Davis was a dime. The pass to Reed was a dime.  So as a QB sometimes you get the benefit of guys being wide open, sometimes you take a chance. 

[Bigmuss1]

Just another over 100 rating game for Alex. 

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

You take what the Defense gives you. On Rodgers one deep TD pass of the game it was on a busted coverage to a guy wide open without a defender even in the camera shot. No one will quantify his stat line because of that.

 

When Smith threw that 46 yard TD pass, I thought it was going to be deflected or possibly picked because there were two guys on Richardson.  Smith, intentionally or not, kind of threw it to an area that allowed Richardson to be the guy to make a play on it.  Richardson definitely adjusted to that ball once he got a bearing on where it was going to fall, but that is what you do when you have trust in your WRs, you take chances like that.  The 50 yard pass to Vernon Davis was a dime. The pass to Reed was a dime.  So as a QB sometimes you get the benefit of guys being wide open, sometimes you take a chance. 

 

I 100% agree, and it's something that Alex has the reputation of not doing. So, even though his completion % was down compared to last week, he played a much better game IMO yesterday. I loved the deep shots. It helps open up the stuff he does really well, and it helps open up the running game, which is a key for the offense. He needs to take them, even if its not really there (like the Richardson throw, he was doubled in bracket coverage) and maybe your guy makes a play, or you get a PI call. But to show the D you WILL test them deep, and make them consider it.

[NoCalMike]

Just now, Morneblade said:

Even though his completion % was down compared to last week, he played a much better game IMO yesterday. I loved the deep shots. It helps open up the stuff he does really well, and it helps open up the running game, which is a key for the offense. H

 

Yes it set a tone early in the game that the Packers defense would not be able to cheat and concentrate on a single area of the field.

Also, while Doctson's stat sheet was trash, he did draw a couple good PI flags. The one in the end zone, the defender was probably better off not holding Doctson and letting him try to catch and see if he dropped it. LOL.  But the bigger point is, those PI flags happened because at least Doctson was winning his one on one match up, which is at least a little bit encouraging? 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I'm still here, and I still think we downgraded at the position.  

 

Alex played a great first half, Alex is a very good Qb but ..  Kirk > Alex all day. 

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, NoCalMike said:

 

Yes it set a tone early in the game that the Packers defense would not be able to cheat and concentrate on a single area of the field.

Also, while Doctson's stat sheet was trash, he did draw a couple good PI flags. The one in the end zone, the defender was probably better off not holding Doctson and letting him try to catch and see if he dropped it. LOL.  But the bigger point is, those PI flags happened because at least Doctson was winning his one on one match up, which is at least a little bit encouraging? 

 

Agree with the first part.

 

As for Doctson, still not even close to being good enough.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

Bucking you? Tone?

 

Okay **** forget it. I thought you were more approachable about discussion, but if so easily ruffled, just forget it, no problem. 

 

I am actually not easily ruffled.  My point was ironically you are ruffled on a hot button or two.  If you are going to bring up the same hot point that bothered you in the past (Kirk) with a disclaimer that hey I am just bringing it up again but I am doing it for no reason -- I really don't care its "whatever".  I am saying to me its obvious you do care otherwise why is it a running topic for you in response.  That's it.  Nothing deep. And I wasn't feeling hot when saying it.  Just showing off my Psych 101 course -- being the opposite of love is indifference when it comes to topics addressed ?

 

And as for the bucking up, I meant that in the context of this hey maybe this is a SB roster why rule it out.  While I agree with the spirit of the point.   Just saying there you were on a different planet on that point just a day ago.  And that's cool.  My point on that front on my end, I thought they were capable of beating GB and they did it.   My opinion on the roster is about having my own deep opinions (like most here do) from a layman's perspective about most players we got.   

 

And its tough to communicate nuance -- so when I say I am not sure, I actually mean it. As I've told you before, if I don't like a FO person or player I'll just outright say it.  Nuance-I don't know thoughts aren't hiding some deeper opinion that I am unwilling to share.   I've seen Chris Thompson and Reed for example up close for years.  I can see them staying healthy and I can see them not.   It's not a new movie for me.  The new movie for me is Alex, Peterson, Richardson for the most part.  Those are the guys I've not watched that closely over the years.  

[NoCalMike]

5 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Agree with the first part.

 

As for Doctson, still not even close to being good enough.

 

Oh I agree it isn't enough. He still is not earning the role he has been given. I was just saying at least his presence was.......somewhat felt? LOL.

[Morneblade]

Just now, NoCalMike said:

 

Oh I agree it isn't enough. He still is not earning the role he has been given. I was just saying at least his presence was.......somewhat felt? LOL.

 

I suppose you could say that. That PI call in the end zone was a just a HORRIBLE play by the CB, but I guess if there is one thing that Doctson CAN actually do, is get the jump ball. And he panicked.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d just like to go on record and say that I’d be tickled pink if somehow the Redskins turn into a defensive, run the football kind of team that only needs 20 throws from the QB on a given week.  If somehow the identity of the team actually shifts to that, I think Smith is more than fine to get the job done.  I loved his run, dive and reach for the sticks on 3rd down.  I’d have to say that I really like Smith with a lead, what’s always given me pause is Smith while behind.  Running the football and getting stops on D doesn’t put him in those scenarios.

[Peregrine]

It was another good job of game management by Smith, outside of the one bad pick.

 

I think hes good at that.  I think we will be in trouble when we find ourselves behind in games, as I dont think he has the ability to lead many comebacks.  

 

I mean, its game 3 now, and we are starting to really see what he was known for in KC; not throwing to WRs.  Anyone not named Tyreek Hill in KC getting the ball was simply a RB or TE.  Yesterday, while granted he only threw 12 completions in the entire game, showed more of his deep preference for TEs and RBs.  The only WR to even have a single catch, outside of the 4 for 39 yards by Crowder, was Richardson with the first drive TD catch.  He only attempted 1 other to Richardson, and his only three throws to Doctson were two PIs and a ball thrown out of bounds.

 

And I think thats all well and good while we can pound the ball and just play good defense with a lead, I just hope we have a solution in mind for when we find ourselves behind to a good team and need to throw the ball to our receivers a lot.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d just like to go on record and say that I’d be tickled pink if somehow the Redskins turn into a defensive, run the football kind of team that only needs 20 throws from the QB on a given week.  If somehow the identity of the team actually shifts to that, I think Smith is more than fine to get the job done.  I loved his run, dive and reach for the sticks on 3rd down.  I’d have to say that I really like Smith with a lead, what’s always given me pause is Smith while behind.  Running the football and getting stops on D doesn’t put him in those scenarios.

 

That's what I'm rooting for too...with AP this year and Guice in the wings, who knows. Not only would it be a more sustainable way to build, but it could even extend Smith's career and, by extension, our window of opportunity. We are building the DL for it...we could continue with strategic upgrades on the OL as well. 

 

The irony: this is probably what McCloughan wanted to do when he came in and it could come to fruition more with the moves we made AFTER he left. 

[Skinsinparadise]

20 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's what I'm rooting for too...with AP this year and Guice in the wings, who knows. Not only would it be a more sustainable way to build, but it could even extend Smith's career and, by extension, our window of opportunity. We are building the DL for it...we could continue with strategic upgrades on the OL as well. 

 

The irony: this is probably what McCloughan wanted to do when he came in and it could come to fruition more with the moves we made AFTER he left. 

 

When I met Scot during the 2016 season we talked drafted a little.  He's like D line, D line, D line and he goes to me this stays here but that's what he's thinking for the 2017 draft.  He also wanted to take R. Kelly with the first pic in 2016 but was beaten to the punch.  Add more to the irony is Scot was the one who drafted Alex Smith as we know.  And he said on twitter once he liked Guice over Barkley. 

 

The irony is I recall one of my questions to him was do you even bother scouting a player like Jonathan Allen since he's unlikely going to be there at your pick.  He said naturally, yes. 

 

Too bad, they ignored LG this off season.  Imagine if that wasn't a weakness still -- be a really good O line albeit without good depth.  I am presuming WR, OL top priorities in the next off season with maybe pass rusher/OLB being the runner up. 

24 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I’d just like to go on record and say that I’d be tickled pink if somehow the Redskins turn into a defensive, run the football kind of team that only needs 20 throws from the QB on a given week.  If somehow the identity of the team actually shifts to that, I think Smith is more than fine to get the job done.  I loved his run, dive and reach for the sticks on 3rd down.  I’d have to say that I really like Smith with a lead, what’s always given me pause is Smith while behind.  Running the football and getting stops on D doesn’t put him in those scenarios.

 

Agree with all of this.  Run-ball control.   It doesn't work when you fall behind.  But its perfect to keep a lead among other things.  I wished though this defense could stop the run.  Hope that's coming.  Last year this defense was good against the pass, too.  It's the run that killed them.  The defense looks better on all fronts thus far but definitely not a shut the run down unit, yet.   This won't kill you now typically but when the weather gets cold and teams tend to run more it will be a bigger deal.