Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Skinsinparadise]

17 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

I am thankful they got out of a really bad situation with what seems to be one of better options they could have gone with at a substantially lower portion of the cap. And excited to see how the rest of this season unfolds with Alex at the helm!

 

Sticking to this thought since its on point to the thread and taking it into other discussions we had.  To me I can't look at the Alex thing in a vacuum and by that I don't mean just looking back but also looking forward.  Yeah he's cheaper than what Kirk's value ended up being this year.  But he's still not cheaper than going with a young QB which was what I wanted to do. 

 

Where my opinion about this team converges with yours but I take it in another direction on that point related to the QB position is this:

 

A. I do think they have a lot of good young talent especially on defense.   I needed to see the movie play out before I label the talent as great.  That being more about my take about talent just in general, where I like to see things unfold before I fully bet on potential.  I like it so far.  But the sample is still small so I'd like to see more.   My thought in the off season was if you are going young why not go the full 9 yards, go young at QB, too?

 

B.  My take on the Qb position whether it was Kirk or now Alex is I don't see them as one man machines.  I am stuck on the running game.  It's why I was obsessed with Guice.  It's why my most rash jersey purchase of all time is buying Peterson after the first preseason game.  I've been on the run game for better or worse is the key to take that next step for years. 

 

My faith was shattered when Guice got hurt.  But if Peterson keeps it going they lost one really good RB and replaced him with another.  If Robert Kelley was our featured RB my confidence in this team wouldn't be high.  But thankfully he's not, finally!   Take that NO game.  Perine couldn't get 1 yard with the game on line.  I'd put money Guice would have, ditto Peterson. 

 

C.  I think a QB of Alex's caliber (good QB) could win when they have a good run game in particular.

 

One of the comments directed my way on this thread implied isn't that a direct shot at Alex, that he needs all these variables to be successful?  My thought on that its not even one whit of a shot at him.  Unless, you are Rodgers, Brady, Brees -- you aren't carrying the team on your back.  You need other things working in your favor to win.   

 

But if the defense keeps playing really well.  And Peterson is the lead dog for most of the season and plays like he has.  I think it can work out well.  But for me it has to come together like that.  And I got no clue that it will until it happens though on the aggregate I've liked it so far.

 

To me the Saints game is huge.  And that's not because of Alex but the whole team.  IMO this team has struggled coming off of the high of a big win.  Conversely, they tend to play well when they come off of a bad game.  For me winning this game would be a good culture change type of win.    I've had Jays back for a long time now and I think its a big game for him to show that this team can get over the hump.   Can they survive losing it?  Sure.  But winning that game to me would be one of the best wins this team has had in a long time considering context. 

 

 

[Morneblade]

On 9/25/2018 at 12:52 PM, HardcoreZorn said:

@wit33 I think you may be onto something in regards to Alex's on the field ability to command the huddle, put us in the correct formation, check to the right plays based off looks from the D, being careful with the football, etc. Those aren't things that are quantifiable in the box score. It's pretty boring if we are being real, and he's an easy target for fans to label check-down charlie, noodle arm, etc. Most people like stats and glamour. But I'll take wins, and Alex wins as many as anybody at that position.

 

Couple of things. A lot has been made about Alex not doing any checking, or audibles. so, some of this isn't really true. The other parts, we don't know

 

On 9/25/2018 at 12:52 PM, HardcoreZorn said:

Which takes me to my next point. Yes, supporting cast matters. Yes, scheme and coaching matter. But haven't we seen enough examples over the years of teams with their starting QBs go down that completely go in the pooper to realize how tangible of an impact the QB position has on the W/L column? I mean take Brees for example. Everyone talks about the 3 straight 7-9 seasons to support the notion that a supporting cast matters. Of course it does, but what about looking at this from the other side of things? How bad would the Saints have been had you plugged in Joe Schmo at QB instead of Brees? From 2014-2016 the Saints ranked 28,32, and 31 in points against. That's about as bad as it gets. The fact Brees was able to guide that team to 3 straight nearly .500 seasons while giving up nearly 30 points a game is a testament to his ability and his impact on the Saints record.

 

Yep. But Brees is a remarkable QB. Alex is not in that class.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 12:52 PM, HardcoreZorn said:

Of course there are examples of teams having such elite rosters that you can plug a Dilfer in and win the SB. But those are extremes. Many rosters from year to year don't fit that criteria. Smith began to put it together under Harbaugh and guide those 49ers teams to the playoffs? By himself? Surely not. But he had a big impact, and one of his best games he's ever played I would say was his playoff battle against Brees in 2011 I believe it was. He then goes to KC and helps guide that team from 2-14 to the playoffs the very next year. 5 Straight winning years, second to Tom Brady in wins since 2013. Comes to Washington and miracuously we are 2-1 for the first time in over a decade.

 

We started out 2-1 as recently as last year. Also, KC got Andy Reid in 2013, and I think you have to give at least SOME credit to Andy for turning KC around.

 

On 9/25/2018 at 12:52 PM, HardcoreZorn said:

Let's give credit where credit is due and admit that Alex didn't just stumble into the above accolades because he was surrounded by the best talent and coaching staff year after year. QB's have a very large impact on the outcome of a game, and a lot of that impact does not show up in the box score. I fully realize it's far too early to make a determination on Alex in a Skins uniform, but I wholeheartedly disagree that you can't use W/L as a way to judge a QB as if it's completely dependent on what's surrounding him. QB's just make too much of a difference. Just my opinion.

 

Actually, Alex has had some of the best coaching when he has been good. When he didn't he wasn't. And using wins and loses to judge a single position doesn't hold up.

[goskins10]

I assume most are watching these, but thought I would post it here for anyone that may not know that Alex is doing these. Pretty good discussion. You can tell why the guys in the clubhouse like him. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

46 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

I assume most are watching these, but thought I would post it here for anyone that may not know that Alex is doing these. Pretty good discussion. You can tell why the guys in the clubhouse like him. 

 

 

 

I watched it this morning.  Entertaining -- my favorite was when Larry asked Alex if he's going to go hunting-finishing during the bye week.  Alex smirks and goes really Larry?  I am from SD, that's not what we do.

 

I posted videos of Alex months back, he's a cool dude.  Of all the Qbs we've had here, oddly I could probably relate to him the most personality wise.  He talks somewhat like I do, similar sense of humor.   He's definitely more laid back.  But as my wife jokes about, I mostly get emotional about sports and not so much other things to her chagrin.  ?

 

I liked that he recognizes the revenge factor of the NO game from last year, he said he watched that game multiple times and can see how it stung.

 

Switching to this guy below who says he holds no grudge against NO -- I don't believe that.  Hopefully he and Thompson are on fire this Sunday.  I am so tempted to fly up to the game.  Love that city-stadium.  Big game. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/01/adrian-peterson-says-he-has-no-beef-with-saints/?utm_term=.c66d6007bc96

Players often downplay how much knowledge of a previous team will have an impact in an upcoming game, but the league’s No. 10 all-time rusher does have some insight he believes can help.

“I know these guys’ personality offensively,” Peterson said. “ . . . I’ve been talking to the guys, giving them a mind-set of the guy that they’re going to be facing. I think that in itself will be helpful.”

[HigSkin]

Interesting....

 

1.  

[JSSkinz]

If anyone has a PFF subscription could you please post Kendall Fuller's ratings for the first 3 weeks, KC has the worst pass defense in the league so I'm curious hows he's doing.

 

I think it kind of ties into this thread and the trade in general.

[Going Commando]

15 hours ago, HigSkin said:

Interesting

 

Small sample size theater.  Plus New England's running game hasn't been working well for most of the first month.  Maybe we're seeing New England step up to the edge of the cliff with Brady, but I believe they'll bounce back and have another strong season.  The team around Brady is not great though.  They don't really have a strong generation of players drafted 4 or 5 years ago to form the current backbone of the team.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

If anyone has a PFF subscription could you please post Kendall Fuller's ratings for the first 3 weeks, KC has the worst pass defense in the league so I'm curious hows he's doing.

 

I think it kind of ties into this thread and the trade in general.

 

64 and change, which means by their metrics above average.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Small sample size theater.  Plus New England's running game hasn't been working well for most of the first month.  Maybe we're seeing New England step up to the edge of the cliff with Brady, but I believe they'll bounce back and have another strong season.  The team around Brady is not great though.  They don't really have a strong generation of players drafted 4 or 5 years ago to form the current backbone of the team.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

64 and change, which means by their metrics above average.

 

 

yep, and his ranking is #50 among CBs, which is down from #40 from last week. Josh Norman is ranked #55 and Quinton Dunbar is ranked #7.

 

Also @stevemcqueen1, you don't need a subscription, the rankings are available to all. Just click on the team logo at the bottom of the Home page then click on "roster" to the right.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

 

yep, and his ranking is #50 among CBs, which is down from #40 from last week. Josh Norman is ranked #55 and Quinton Dunbar is ranked #7.

 

Also @stevemcqueen1, you don't need a subscription, the rankings are available to all. Just click on the team logo at the bottom of the Home page then click on "roster" to the right.

 

 

 

50 from 40 -- steep decline?  4 games in. 

 

This part not directed at you.  If Fuller has been good but not as good as last year. For me at least, it doesn't make me celebrate the trade.  I've been consistent and am sticking with it -- if they have really good year with Alex at the helm and he plays well for years to come = good trade.  If they stick in that 8-8 range -- nothing bad but nothing special and we lost a chance to draft a young replacement - then its a bad trade IMO.  To me the movie has to play out.

 

I thought and still do that they royally screwed up the Kirk situation.  I'd have liked an Alex type of trade if we were Jax or another team poised to the big dance.  So as i've said many times, my beef isn't with Alex.  I like him.  I think he's a playoff caliber QB but is this roster along with him?   And at his age I think it matters to win now.  If he were 30, I wouldn't care about it with a sense of urgency.

 

 But maybe i am wrong, hope I am will see.   Since I didn't see us as a SB squad or close to the SB -- wanted to go get our own Mahomes type, Baker, Darnold or whomever.    The one thing that's making this interesting is Peterson.  If the dude stays healthy and is the 2015 version of himself -- I think it could be a fun season. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

50 from 40 -- steep decline?  4 games in. 

 

 

 

No, he was at #65 after 2 games, then #50 after three games (I messed up before) then #50 after week 4, so no decline... Josh Norman was at #40 last week, I believe and had dropped down to #55 although he didn't play. Dubar has gone from #1 to #4 to #7 (and also didn't play).

[Morneblade]

I really don't know what to expect out of this team yet. I think we're going to need a lot more out of the QB position if we're going to do anything in the post-season, especially when concerning getting the WR's involved. If we don't I think we end up a 6-10/7-9 team. We're going ot be too easy to defend if we don't.

 

I really hope we start to see the offense open up starting at the Saint's game. i think we really are going to need it.

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 But maybe i am wrong, hope I am will see.   Since I didn't see us as a SB squad or close to the SB -- wanted to go get our own Mahomes type, Baker, Darnold or whomever.    The one thing that's making this interesting is Peterson.  If the dude stays healthy and is the 2015 version of himself -- I think it could be a fun season. 

 

Maybe I’m wrong, I didn’t see this as a super bowl team lol. I think you’re safe in your thoughts the team isn’t thought to be in the top 5 of super bowl contenders, but once you get pass that it’s a huge melting pot, so I’m good with taking a shot with vets Skins have and getting an at bat in the playoffs. 

 

Rather have a few shots at the playoffs (who knows what happens) then taking a rookie and dealing with odds of him being average to good, or hit the lottery with an elite guy. 

 

Playoffs this year and all is good with me. If it turns into a poor season, then I’ll own it and have been wrong about the team and direction. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

No, he was at #65 after 2 games, then #50 after three games (I messed up before) then #50 after week 4, so no decline... Josh Norman was at #40 last week, I believe and had dropped down to #55 although he didn't play. Dubar has gone from #1 to #4 to #7 (and also didn't play).

 

PFF has ranked him so far as someone who played above average.   It's 4 games.  We got a full season to go.   My beef with the trade had little to do with Fuller.  He was just another log in the fire. 

 

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

 

Maybe I’m wrong, I didn’t see this as a super bowl team lol. I think you’re safe in your thoughts the team isn’t thought to be in the top 5 of super bowl contenders, but once you get pass that it’s a huge melting pot, so I’m good with taking a shot with vets Skins have and getting an at bat in the playoffs. 

 

Rather have a few shots at the playoffs (who knows what happens) then taking a rookie and dealing with odds of him being average to good, or hit the lottery with an elite guy. 

 

Playoffs this year and all is good with me. If it turns into a poor season, then I’ll own it and have been wrong about the team and direction. 

 

I've covered my position a lot.  I'll give them more leeway than a SB.  But, looking for better than just the same stuff -- 8-8, 9-7 and maybe once hitting 10-6 and then getting knocked out of the playoffs to me is a failure. 

 

Judging by the stands in the opener, I think people aren't clamoring for more mediocrity with an occasional sneak into the playoffs season and get knocked out -- I think plenty are looking for that next step.  If we don't reach that next step yeah for me personally I think it was a waste to basically tread water and maintain the status quo.  I'd rather go 4-12 and have a short at Herbert, Fromm, etc.

 

The hard thing to communicate on this thread specifically is this -- how much of that point is directed at Alex Smith?  It's zero.  It's about the rest of the roster and how it flows together.  But like I've said here many times, if Thompson and Reed stay healthy and we have a legit RB -- before to me it was Guice, now its Peterson, they can go 11-5.  I said the same months back.  If so, that would be a positive change especially if we get a playoff win.

 

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Smith outshines Brees this weekend and has a 3-4 TD performance. Let’s go Alex!

[Sandy Monk]

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Maybe I’m wrong, I didn’t see this as a super bowl team lol.

 

When looking at Smith's locked in years, right or wrong, I see these next 3 years as the SB window. I wasn't expecting a strong SB run in 2018. Seems possible, but beyond this season, more likely. They added what looks to be some excellent additions to weak areas.. and they can be even stronger for 2019 too. 

 

2020, draft your baby QBotF, and assess whether the window is shut or not on this vet QB for 2021. 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

PFF has ranked him so far as someone who played above average.   It's 4 games.  We got a full season to go.   My beef with the trade had little to do with Fuller.  He was just another log in the fire.

 

 

My post had nothing whatsoever to do with the trade lol...just correcting my previous ranking that made it seem like Dunbar had a "steep decline" 4 games into the season. His weekly ranking on PFF has actually gone up.

[wit33]

51 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

PFF has ranked him so far as someone who played above average.   It's 4 games.  We got a full season to go.   My beef with the trade had little to do with Fuller.  He was just another log in the fire. 

 

 

I've covered my position a lot.  I'll give them more leeway than a SB.  But, looking for better than just the same stuff -- 8-8, 9-7 and maybe once hitting 10-6 and then getting knocked out of the playoffs to me is a failure. 

 

Judging by the stands in the opener, I think people aren't clamoring for more mediocrity with an occasional sneak into the playoffs season and get knocked out -- I think plenty are looking for that next step.  If we don't reach that next step yeah for me personally I think it was a waste to basically tread water and maintain the status quo.  I'd rather go 4-12 and have a short at Herbert, Fromm, etc.

 

The hard thing to communicate on this thread specifically is this -- how much of that point is directed at Alex Smith?  It's zero.  It's about the rest of the roster and how it flows together.  But like I've said here many times, if Thompson and Reed stay healthy and we have a legit RB -- before to me it was Guice, now its Peterson, they can go 11-5.  I said the same months back.  If so, that would be a positive change especially if we get a playoff win.

 

 

 

 

Status quo here has not been making the playoffs though. Making the playoffs would be exciting for the fan base. If Skins are in position to make playoffs, seats will be filled. 

 

28 teams can make case to reach 10 wins at the start of the year. 

35 minutes ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

When looking at Smith's locked in years, right or wrong, I see these next 3 years as the SB window. I wasn't expecting a strong SB run in 2018. Seems possible, but beyond this season, more likely. They added what looks to be some excellent additions to weak areas.. and they can be even stronger for 2019 too. 

 

2020, draft your baby QBotF, and assess whether the window is shut or not on this vet QB for 2021. 

 

 

 

I agree.

 

I just don’t think this is a year Skins are expected to compete. With that said, I’m one that feels getting to playoffs gives most teams a legitimate shot at winning it all. 

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Status quo here has not been making the playoffs though. Making the playoffs would be exciting for the fan base. If Skins are in position to make playoffs, seats will be filled. 

 

 

That's why I said making the playoffs occasionally.  They did make it in 2012 and 2015.  sneaking into the playoffs and getting knocked out -- while is nicer than not making the playoffs but its not that wild of an adventure.  Making the playoffs 2 years in a row, that's a departure.  Going 11-5 -- that's new.  Winning a playoff game that's pretty new, too.

 

 

[JSSkinz]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

64 and change, which means by their metrics above average.

Thanks, I bet its a challenging year for him and probably not fair to judge him until he's had a year under his belt playing on the outside. We know what 1 year of experience at the slot did for him.

 

It does have some meaning because many were more upset about the fact we lost Fuller because we thought so highly of him, I don't wish for him to fail but it would mean the FO made a good move and the "Andy Reid stuck us again" stuff would chime down a bit.

 

6 hours ago, Califan007 said:

Also @stevemcqueen1, you don't need a subscription, the rankings are available to all. Just click on the team logo at the bottom of the Home page then click on "roster" to the right.

Is this about PFF?  Is there a way I can see some of the stats without a subscription?

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Is this about PFF?  Is there a way I can see some of the stats without a subscription?

 

 

The stats I think you need a subscription, outside of the basic stats. Individual rankings, though, you can see without a sub. but if you want to see rankings in a list to see all players/positions at one time to compare, you may need to subscribe...or compile the list yourself. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

 

It does have some meaning because many were more upset about the fact we lost Fuller because we thought so highly of him, I don't wish for him to fail but it would mean the FO made a good move and the "Andy Reid stuck us again" stuff would chime down a bit.

 

 

Ok for me and some others here I noticed it was about losing a 30 year old QB and swapping him for a 34 year old QB -- putting a heavier window on win now and skipping supposedly one of the top heavy and deep drafts for QBs as Bruce Arians said in over 20 years.

 

Trying to recall a person who liked all of that but just couldn't take Fuller being part of the deal. Maybe so.    Fuller seemed more liked the gravy for why they gave up too much. 

[ixcuincle]

I would give him a B+ so far. He had one bad game but two pretty decent games. If Gruden keeps opening the playbook up for him and he uses his receivers more, if the playcalling continues to be aggressive, I think we'll see him continue to shine. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Good article with some Alex quotes.  

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/10/03/redskins-alex-smith-discusses-areas-which-offense-can-improve/?utm_term=.51d819c16ba3

The Washington Redskins' bye week was a bit strange for Alex Smith. He typically would delve into evaluation during a week off, but with just three games played this season, there wasn’t a lot to go through.

Still, the Redskins quarterback has some thoughts on how the offense can improve. Washington has averaged 21.3 points to rank 23rd in the NFL, and Smith believes in-game adjustments and consistency are the next steps in the unit’s development.

“We’re able to do so much, so many different personnel groups, so many guys that have playmaking ability for us,” Smith said at his weekly media session Wednesday. “I think deciphering quickly what [the defense is] going to be that week [is the next progression].

“Heading in, you don’t know how they’re going to play us [in] certain personnels. Who are they going to match up? Things like that. The ability to decipher that quick and to counter it.”

[JSSkinz]

New Orleans is 3rd at stopping the run but 30th at stopping the pass.

 

We're gonna have to pass the ball to win, I hope Alex is ready.