Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[wit33]

16 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't think it would have happened here because we have too many holes to fill and need that money to do it but if you're not going to spend it anyway then WTF.

 

Curious about the spending part. I’m all about saving dollars to carry over and spend, but if this isn’t taking place, then damn

 

Do we know if Skins are spending close to max or has money been pocketed by the organization?

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Temper11 said:

 

I'm here... sorry I'm late, was busy at work (still busy actually) but wanted you all to get your pound of flesh.  I've been taking arrows for Smith since he was with my Niners.  So, fire away!

 

I actually thought he played alright - not terrible.  Line was getting destroyed and the times when he did have time to go downfield, his passes were right on the money - dudes just didn't catch em.  Those passes get caught, drives extend, different game.  But... enough said - get your licks in! 

 

For what it's worth, I think the difference between the Smith Trolls and the Smith Fans, is that the trolls will come here to celebrate in Redskins losses.  Fans will be bummed right along with the rest of you.  To me, I see a difference in that - but it's your board. 

 

Hoping the skins get back in the win column this Sunday!  I may really need the skins to win to shed some happiness on what looks to be like a rough game for the niners against the chiefs. 

 

Just don't end being like Westbrook36.

 

As for his play, the line play wasn't terrible. Not great, but not terrible. Terrible was last year, with a bunch of guys off the streets.

 

But the real issue was that in the 4th quarter, there was zero urgency to his play. Now, it's exactly what I expected, but that kind of play is not going win games when you are down by more than 1 score. So, in that regard, his 4th quarter play was very bad. He's going to have to push more. Unlike his teams in KC, he doesn't have a running game or great D to rely on here. They are, at best a work in progress.

[JSSkinz]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

 

Curious about the spending part. I’m all about saving dollars to carry over and spend, but if this isn’t taking place, then damn

 

Do we know if Skins are spending close to max or has money been pocketed by the organization?

We have about $10M in cap space which puts us with the 15th most cap space available out of 32 teams but its more about the return on our investment, take the Vikes for example.

 

They have 2 pro bowl caliber WR's, a very solid veteran TE who's been underutilized throughout his career and a young talented RB along with a very good defense, they are getting max talent for the money they are spending, they have about $2.5M left in cap space so that's enough to make it through if they have injuries.

 

We've spent quite a bit of our cap space but we really don't have much to show for it.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

I like what I've seen in the small sample size from PRich but to me, he's more of a high end #2, not a true #1 but you still need those guys and with Robinson that would have been a great one-two punch.

 

 

Agree, Richardson has shown some spurts, still got some hope for him.  I liked him in FA and touted him before we signed him.

 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

 

We went from one extreme to the other, throwing money away to being the cheapest team in the NFL and that more than anything is what frustrates me.

 

Yep.

 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

 

Alex is Alex, everyone knew who he was and to hang him out to dry with this personnel is tragic and you could see it coming a mile away.

 

Agree with this, too.  But I don't think it was intentional.  I just think this is how Bruce rolls and Alex is collateral damage.

 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

 

This guy is going to end up being the scapegoat because the FO didn't get him more talent. 

 

The FO can't make him the scapegoat since they played that hand so assume you mean by that fans.  If so, Alex doesn't deserve to be the scapegoat -- the FO should be the scapegoat.  I got some animosity for how the Kirk contract was handled and the subsequent Alex trade.  But not one whit of that animosity is directed to Alex.   Like I said from the get go, I'd have loved the trade if we were Jax or another team close to the big dance and with a loaded roster.  I don't think that this is that team.   Will see though love to be wrong. 

 

1 hour ago, JSSkinz said:

I don't think Kirk at $28M a year is changing anything around here, just another 7 to 9, maybe 10 win season, he's better off where he is, he will reach his potential at Minnesota but not here and not now.

 

I don't think it would have happened here because we have too many holes to fill and need that money to do it but if you're not going to spend it anyway then WTF.

 

I agree with this point too the way you laid it out.  But disagree with the premise -- the hand that was played here for years led to the 28 million, they had plenty of opportunity to get it done cheaper.  We are talking here about the point of no return once the horse was let out of the barn.  But they are the ones who let the horse out of the barn in the first place.  But anyway that discussion has been played to death so I'll just leave it there.

[zoony]

So whats oir long term solution at Qb?

 

Finish 8-8 and draft a guy at 18 overall, the 6th QB off the board that night?

 

Move up to number 2 overall and trade 3 first rounders to do so?

 

Alex will win between 6 and 9 games his entire tenure here.  We will be picking in the middle of the first round through 2021.  Maybe we can start the rebuild in 2023 draft.

 

This franchise is a pile of ****.

[Temper11]

56 minutes ago, zoony said:

Alex will win between 6 and 9 games his entire tenure here.  We will be picking in the middle of the first round through 2021.  Maybe we can start the rebuild in 2023 draft.

 

This franchise is a pile of ****.

 

Fwiw...  fans in KC predicted 6 to 9 wins every year and they went to the playoffs 4 out of 5. He/they might surprise you. 

[NoCalMike]

Ever since Alex was signed we hear a lot about RPO, getting him out of the pockets on rollouts & bootlegs, but it seems like that hasn't been happening much at all. When he has rushed or vacated the pocket it's mostly been out of necessity.  

 

I wonder if Gruden thinks defenses are anticipating that too much?

 

I'd like to see Alex Smith utilized in that way more.

[Veryoldschool]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I just commented on this in another thread.  Spencer Long wasn't a stud here but he wasn't bad and he's young and typically healthy -- he has an 84 pass blocking rating from PFF thus far this season, that's borderline pro bowl numbers.  We let him go and instead retain Lauvao who if I recall correctly was PFF's lowest graded guard last year and is off to a rough start this year.  As for center, Roullier has some potential but don't know what to make of him, yet.

 

This is another example of Bruce and the FO's ineptitude.  What's most disappointing to me about it is if you are going to bring a new Qb until the fold after them completely botching things with the prior QB -- you'd think they'd set Alex up for the kill to vindicate themselves.  But even within that context, Bruce can't bring himself to spend money on talented FAs versus the typical junk-bargain hunting that he loves doing and mostly failing at. 

 

 

I talked about this very point during the build up to the draft, the entire focus should have been to set Smith up for success with a stronger OL to help the running game.   A mediocre back can get a thousand yards behind a strong line.  With a strong running game a mediocre QB diesn’t have to carry the team.  I don’t know what we got in Smith but I know he’s playing behind an OL that can’t run block to save it’s ass.  They didn’t set Alex up for success.

[wit33]

4 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

We have about $10M in cap space which puts us with the 15th most cap space available out of 32 teams but its more about the return on our investment, take the Vikes for example.

 

They have 2 pro bowl caliber WR's, a very solid veteran TE who's been underutilized throughout his career and a young talented RB along with a very good defense, they are getting max talent for the money they are spending, they have about $2.5M left in cap space so that's enough to make it through if they have injuries.

 

We've spent quite a bit of our cap space but we really don't have much to show for it.

 

I’m with you all that. Coaching has a big part in it as well. 

 

Was curious how the “carry over” money works in years 2,3.... and so on?

 

 

[kingarthur65]

After watching the film, Alex didn't play as bad as I thought he did.  He had a couple of drops that weren't his fault, and the fumble by Reed didn't help.  Gruden didn't do him many favors in the second half either.  Most of those passes to CT in the 4th quarter were by design.  We continuously ran 4 receivers on streaks and threw to CT underneath.  

 

I would give the receivers a poor grade on the game.  Our receivers don't run out of the break.  You can see this clearly on the corner route by Doctson.  He makes his cut to the sideline and slows down.  The pass ends up being just a bit too long.  Doctson, Richardson and Harris all were targets on comeback routes.  None of them made a step back to the QB.  Just stopped and turned around for the ball.  

 

I'd like to see Alex do better on his pre snap reads.  There were a couple of times, she should have knows the run play was not going to work and called an audible.  He will also hold the ball instead of making the quick read.  We had a couple of WR screens called that he just hesitated on.  The first play of our second drive in the first quarter, you could tell the WR screen was the call and it was open for at least 5 yards, but he hesitated and ended up throwing to AP on the other side of the field.  Just make the throw and take the yards given.

[Wildbunny]

2 hours ago, kingarthur65 said:

Doctson, Richardson and Harris all were targets on comeback routes.  None of them made a step back to the QB.  Just stopped and turned around for the ball.  

You mean Chesson. Mo Harris didn't play.

[skinsmania123]

As someone who was somewhat excited about these receivers when the season started thinking we were actually better then some on here thought I was wrong again.  I admit it.  It may only be game 3, but I never thought the inability to get the ball into the EZ during the preseason was going to be a thing once the season started. 

 

 Gruden better open up the passing game immediately against the Packers, and stop the wimpy predictable play calling. Yeah Jay, call a pass on 1st down.  Shock us all.   Shock yourself.  Literally Doctson, Richardson and Crowder need to be exposed for the **** unit they might very well be, or grow a set and catch the damn ball.  Or come back to the ball.  Part of being a talented receiver is coming back to the ball -anticipation.   Geez.  

 

Hope Harris is back for this on.  I think that kid has great potential but out with a concussion for 5 games?  Once again the injuries are piling up, bit by bit, every game. It is like a bucket with a small hole in it.

 

BUT as the OP already stated, if the damn O line cannot recognize the stunts of the D line we are going to be screwed again.  No protection. No decent run game. 

 

But as some have pointed out, these are the types of games we win.  But I don't believe Alex has the arm or even the ability to get into a shootout with Rodgers which is exactly what Cousin's did last week,  I don't think it can happen and I believe Rodgers is going to light up our secondary.  He is that crazy good.

[Sandy Monk]

5 hours ago, kingarthur65 said:

After watching the film, Alex didn't play as bad as I thought he did.  He had a couple of drops that weren't his fault, and the fumble by Reed didn't help.  Gruden didn't do him many favors in the second half either.  Most of those passes to CT in the 4th quarter were by design.  We continuously ran 4 receivers on streaks and threw to CT underneath.  

 

I would give the receivers a poor grade on the game.  Our receivers don't run out of the break.  You can see this clearly on the corner route by Doctson.  He makes his cut to the sideline and slows down.  The pass ends up being just a bit too long.  Doctson, Richardson and Harris all were targets on comeback routes.  None of them made a step back to the QB.  Just stopped and turned around for the ball.  

 

I'd like to see Alex do better on his pre snap reads.  There were a couple of times, she should have knows the run play was not going to work and called an audible.  He will also hold the ball instead of making the quick read.  We had a couple of WR screens called that he just hesitated on.  The first play of our second drive in the first quarter, you could tell the WR screen was the call and it was open for at least 5 yards, but he hesitated and ended up throwing to AP on the other side of the field.  Just make the throw and take the yards given.

 

Very much agree with every bit of this. I'm always fascinated with pro receivers that are well beyond the 1st down marker, yet still don't comeback fro the ball once finished with their routes. They were just looking forward and seeing where the coverage behind them would be. Do they think the defender just stops still too? At some point, you have to start bring in people with football intelligence, even if less physically gifted. 

 

Also, it felt like in this game, Alex was just going with whatever call was sent in.. versus the week before, where it felt like more of a chess match in adjusting things pre snap. Just watched the Indy game that one time, so maybe I'm not remembering right, but that's what it felt like. 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, zoony said:

So whats oir long term solution at Qb?

 

Finish 8-8 and draft a guy at 18 overall, the 6th QB off the board that night?

 

Move up to number 2 overall and trade 3 first rounders to do so?

 

Alex will win between 6 and 9 games his entire tenure here.  We will be picking in the middle of the first round through 2021.  Maybe we can start the rebuild in 2023 draft.

 

This franchise is a pile of ****.

 

Exactly.  JP Finlay said this multiple times during the contract negotiation and that is the Redskins brass tell him they don't care about 2 years down the road, 3 years down the road when it comes to QB so they are perfectly fine about renting Kirk -- the NFL is a win now league.  2 years from now is as distant as 10 years from now as far as they are concerned.  I brushed that off at the time but it makes sense to me now -- that clearly is their ammo.  This far, judging by fan sentiment-attendance, this approach is blowing up in their face as it should.  This game to me and the next have a code red feel to it -- not so much as to the season but just attendance-fan buzz.  I think if they win one of the 2 games they will regain some buzz back but if they lose both, its likely an uphill climb with fans. 

[zoony]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Exactly.  JP Finlay said this multiple times during the contract negotiation and that is the Redskins brass tell him they don't care about 2 years down the road, 3 years down the road when it comes to QB so they are perfectly fine about renting Kirk -- the NFL is a win now league.  2 years from now is as distant as 10 years from now as far as they are concerned.  I brushed that off at the time but it makes sense to me now -- that clearly is their ammo.  This far, judging by fan sentiment-attendance, this approach is blowing up in their face as it should.  This game to me and the next have a code red feel to it -- not so much as to the season but just attendance-fan buzz.  I think if they win one of the 2 games they will regain some buzz back but if they lose both, its likely an uphill climb with fans. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

59 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

But as some have pointed out, these are the types of games we win.  But I don't believe Alex has the arm or even the ability to get into a shootout with Rodgers which is exactly what Cousin's did last week,  I don't think it can happen and I believe Rodgers is going to light up our secondary.  He is that crazy good.

 

going off topic a little but I noticed in both games offenses like to go hurry up against this defense.  Aaron is a master of the hurry up offense.

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

 

Yeah Scot went out on a limb before it became cool to say Baker was the #1 QB in the draft.  Scot was also mocked I noticed from some on this board but more so from Bruce fan boys on twitter for them taking D. Ward early in the first, Ward is looking like a stud, too.  Though don't know how much of that was Scot or Dorsey.  

 

Scot is given a hard time for not being a magician here in 2 seasons.   But geez IMO, John Schneider didn't just rock it on every draft. No one does.  Good GMs have good drafts, bad drafts, and ones somewhere in between.  As Doug likes to say the draft is a crap shoot there is no sure fire aspect of any of it.  You got to hire a GM and just be patient with them.  They drafted good players, Jarrett, Crowder, P. Smith, K. Fuller, Ionnaidis.  Heck the Eagles think they robbed us with Sudfeld.  will see.   But even if lets say they were mediocre.  So what?  Good Gms will have good drafts as part of the soup just hang with it.  You keep drafting and building a certain type of football team. 

 

I get Scot needed to go because of his antics whatever they were.  But if Dan has the sense to hire another real personnel guy again.  Give the dude more than 2 years.  Hopefully, that's Kyle Smith.  I've liked his drafts albeit disagreed with some of the picks -- but I think the dude has been boxed in to having to draft to need because of the lame FA crop he deals with.   

 

Dan had John Schneider in the building for 1 year and boom he's out.  If our owner is going to be old school George Steinnbrenner with the personnel department where its you either rock quickly or you are out -- we aren't going to keep or be able to hire top personnel guys around the league.  I don't think its a coincidence that Laconfora said in the 2017 off season that up and coming hot shot personnel types don't want to go to the Redskins for 2 reasons:  1. they are cheap in what they are willing to pay and 2.  they are afraid of meddling and impatience.   

 

But back on point, yeah once Kirk was a forgone conclusion that he was gone, I wanted to draft a young guy and start over. I recall you felt the same.  Apparently, Bruce-Dan disagree.  Will see how this goes. 

[Morneblade]

9 hours ago, Temper11 said:

 

Fwiw...  fans in KC predicted 6 to 9 wins every year and they went to the playoffs 4 out of 5. He/they might surprise you. 

 

KC had a much better D and rushing attack that the Redskins have. Even last year, where everyone wants to talk about how terrible KC's defense was?

 

They were 17th in points. And this was a really off year.

We were 27th in points, and this has been par for the course. So, the Defense is going to need to get about 10 spots better to the "terrible" KC Defense in 2017.

 

And I'm pretty sure I don't have to talk about the difference in the running game.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

13 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

We have about $10M in cap space which puts us with the 15th most cap space available out of 32 teams but its more about the return on our investment, take the Vikes for example.

 

They have 2 pro bowl caliber WR's, a very solid veteran TE who's been underutilized throughout his career and a young talented RB along with a very good defense, they are getting max talent for the money they are spending, they have about $2.5M left in cap space so that's enough to make it through if they have injuries.

 

We've spent quite a bit of our cap space but we really don't have much to show for it.

 

I read an article the other day that correlated percent of cap tied to top 10 players on a team to wins.

 

Most wins came with teams with 52-59% of their cap going to their top 10 players. We committed 47% of our 2017 cap to our top 10 players. So far this year, we have committed 54.5% of our cap to our top 10 players.  "top 10" doesnt mean top 10 best but top 10 highest cap hits. So Allen and Payne arent in our top 10.

 

https://www.sbnation.com/2018/3/15/17114596/nfl-free-agency-2018-salary-cap-formula-winning-teams

 

Our top 10 this year includes 2 TEs (Reed - 10.M and Davis 5.3) and our 11th highest cap hit is our backup QB Colt at 3.6.

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/washington-redskins/

[DJHJR86]

https://i.imgur.com/h51TRd0.mp4 

https://i.imgur.com/m6eM8Nw.mp4

 

Awful plays there.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://i.imgur.com/h51TRd0.mp4 

https://i.imgur.com/m6eM8Nw.mp4

 

Awful plays there.

 

Dang on the first one, looks like the scheme worked as exactly how it was drawn up. They had a lone corner wide on our WR (bottom of screen - couldnt see number or name, richardson?) and Im guessing Crowder in slot w a LB playing off (not even really marking crowder at all).

 

Post snap, corner jumps Crowder's short route and leaves Richardson wide the **** open. Alex seems to move on from this side of the field very quickly .. despite pre snap read should have told him this would work, everything post snap screams this will work - corner has to choose btw the 2 routes and you go w the other. 

 

Other side of the field, after alex turned down the richardson/crowder options, hes looking right at the TE who found an open space in the seam, appears like Alex is looking right at him. Yes it would be a somewhat tight throw but if alex had awareness and anticipation, he would have anticipated TE/Reed(/) would have found space in the zone and hit him on time.

 

Instead -- he turns down his 1st read on the bottom side of the field that was open, didnt feel comfortable throwing a late ball over middle to a somewhat open TE and dumps it down for a 4 yard gain.

 

****ing A alex.

 

I was preaching patience with the first unit to get timing and comfortability down ... but Jay, at least on that play, has to be frustrated. Draw up a beautiful play, that works perfectly and your QB turns down open chunk plays for a dump off. 

[bird_1972]

11 hours ago, Temper11 said:

 

Fwiw...  fans in KC predicted 6 to 9 wins every year and they went to the playoffs 4 out of 5. He/they might surprise you. 

 

Better coach and more talent.

[JSSkinz]

 

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

https://i.imgur.com/h51TRd0.mp4 

https://i.imgur.com/m6eM8Nw.mp4

 

Awful plays there.

 

 

I expected to see a lot more of these cut-ups this week based on our inability to get the ball downfield but your post is the first 2 examples I've seen all week, I can't tell if that means nobody was open most of the game or people were just too lazy to break down the coaches film.

[DJHJR86]

 

Reid must really hate this team.

 

 

[Temper11]

3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

KC had a much better D and rushing attack that the Redskins have. Even last year, where everyone wants to talk about how terrible KC's defense was?

 

They were 17th in points. And this was a really off year.

We were 27th in points, and this has been par for the course. So, the Defense is going to need to get about 10 spots better to the "terrible" KC Defense in 2017.

 

And I'm pretty sure I don't have to talk about the difference in the running game.

 

You may be right, who can know?  But every single time someone predicted the mediocre season they were bound to have, they always had a list of reasons just like the one you posted above.  If I had a dollar for every year someone predicted missing the playoffs with Smith (since his resurgence) I'd have... well - I guess I'd only have 6 dollars, I think I did that wrong. 

 

Let me try again...

 

If I had a dollar for every TIME someone predicted missing the playoffs with Smith (since his resurgence), I'd have a **** ton of money now.  (that's better - a much more powerful statement.  ?) The "sky has fallen" every year, since 2011 and Smith-led teams* have been to the playoffs 6 out of 7 of those years.  

 

*I include 2012 when he was knocked out mid-season.  Team was 6-2 and rollin'.