Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

I think we are going to see 10-6 and a division title and ES posters and gonna whine and carp until the finale and beyond...

 

Not sure why you are stuck though on having the fans love the QB every step of the way-- there are plenty of threads about players like any year here, some players lauded, some not on the journey.  Usually there is even a correlation between how the players are playing good or bad as for the praise and criticism.  ? 

 

By the same token, anyone who is complaining about Doctson or saying the wide receivers can't do YAC, the pass defense needs to improve, etc also don't appreciate winning.  If Alex is off limits from criticism, I gather everyone else should be off limits, too.

[actorguy1]

We made it to page 178! The same yardage Alex had twice this season. They were also both wins. Keep it up Alex!

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

We made it to page 178! The same yardage Alex had twice this season. They were also both wins. Keep it up Alex!

 

I think he did 178 three times? So its a lucky number.  We should freeze the page at 178 until the Texans game is over to see if it gives good luck. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Process > results 

 

The two don’t match this year. Which to me means that we are lucky and probably on an unsustainable pace.

 

well if that’s the case, might as well ride the luck this year. This is the shot imo. Let’s have a big year that makes no sense. 

 

Worry about turning into a pumpkin next year 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

45 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Process > results 

 

The two don’t match this year. Which to me means that we are lucky and probably on an unsustainable pace.

 

well if that’s the case, might as well ride the luck this year. This is the shot imo. Let’s have a big year that makes no sense. 

 

Worry about turning into a pumpkin next year 

Only downside to this is potentially saving Bruce at the expense of losing better talent.  Speculation of course, but  it would be a damn shame.

 

That said, I can’t convince myself of that in the heat of the game.  I always want to win even if I know it’s probably bad for us.

[Taylor 36]

On 11/16/2018 at 3:58 PM, OVCChairman said:

 

 

He's not throwing an incomplete 'damn near every drop back.'  He's also not failing to see an open receiver every drop back either... and Iike I said, how many times within this offense is the open receiver the 3rd or 4th read in the progression which he never gets to.  Whether it be because he opts for an attempt at an earlier read, or the fact that he's playing behind a makeshift O-line? 

 

He does need to get more comfortable, and the level of play is not good enough, but he's not the ONLY cause for these frustrations.  The making bad throws to open receivers is on him, i'm not disputing that.  

I didn't say he was throwing an incomplete pass on every drop back.  He wouldn't be known as Captain Check-down if that was the case.  He checks down and misses open receivers down field on damn near every drop back, which is why he earned the name Captain Check-down long before he came to Washington and is still earning it to date. 

 

It is interesting that the other QB's in Gruden's system, going back to Dalton, ALL went through progressions the same way, and none came nearly as close to constant dump offs as Alex.  Dalton pushed it down the field easily, even as a rookie. Even a guy like RGIII, who struggled with a pro offense and was prone to trying to scramble way to early, didn't check down like Alex.  Hell, RGIII was even able to find Reed and utilize him.  Weak armed Colt pushed it down the field, and we know what the last guy did.  So, we're supposed to believe that all of those guys failed to follow the correct progressions?  Funny how Gruden didn't complain about THAT when it came to those guys, but is frustrated with Alex for not getting down field.  I wonder why that would be if Alex was following the correct progressions and was supposed to hit the safety net before checking down field?

 

And, let's not use the makeshift O-line excuse.  It wasn't allowed when it was even worse in the past for other QB's, and it has only been makeshift for the past couple of weeks.  It's not like this is new for Alex.  He's done it on two previous teams as well with their healthy lines.  Alex plays scared, and this play will not get us through the playoffs.  It is a waste of a good defense, special teams and running game.  THAT is what frustrates me the most!

[OVCChairman]

9 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

I didn't say he was throwing an incomplete pass on every drop back.  He wouldn't be known as Captain Check-down if that was the case.  He checks down and misses open receivers down field on damn near every drop back, which is why he earned the name Captain Check-down long before he came to Washington and is still earning it to date. 

 

It is interesting that the other QB's in Gruden's system, going back to Dalton, ALL went through progressions the same way, and none came nearly as close to constant dump offs as Alex.  Dalton pushed it down the field easily, even as a rookie. Even a guy like RGIII, who struggled with a pro offense and was prone to trying to scramble way to early, didn't check down like Alex.  Hell, RGIII was even able to find Reed and utilize him.  Weak armed Colt pushed it down the field, and we know what the last guy did.  So, we're supposed to believe that all of those guys failed to follow the correct progressions?  Funny how Gruden didn't complain about THAT when it came to those guys, but is frustrated with Alex for not getting down field.  I wonder why that would be if Alex was following the correct progressions and was supposed to hit the safety net before checking down field?

 

And, let's not use the makeshift O-line excuse.  It wasn't allowed when it was even worse in the past for other QB's, and it has only been makeshift for the past couple of weeks.  It's not like this is new for Alex.  He's done it on two previous teams as well with their healthy lines.  Alex plays scared, and this play will not get us through the playoffs.  It is a waste of a good defense, special teams and running game.  THAT is what frustrates me the most!

 

 

Actually Gruden was vocal about wanting pretty much all his QBs to take more risks and go down field... that they were too conservative.... that wasnt just the knock on alex.  Its been consistent regardless of who his qb had been here, save maybe colt.  I vividly remember Gruden being very honest about wanting the qb to take more risks, and put up more 50/50 balls.

 

I didnt say it was an excuse as to his struggles, just that it limits his ability to get his read across the field to a potentially deeper route.  The urgency to get the ball out quickly because of the flux along the o line.  Ive had this concern with our o line because of how injured they are over Grudens whole tenure.

[Thinking Skins]

3 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Process > results 

 

The two don’t match this year. Which to me means that we are lucky and probably on an unsustainable pace.

 

well if that’s the case, might as well ride the luck this year. This is the shot imo. Let’s have a big year that makes no sense. 

 

Worry about turning into a pumpkin next year 

I disagree here. results is what matters. if the process was flawed, then eventually the results will suffer. but if we keep winning by non-conventional methods, i wouldn't say it's still bad process, but I'd question if we really understood the process. 

 

Take Eli and Joe in their SBs, neither had great years but their defenses carried them, and both were thought to be below SB quality QBs, but when the big dance came, they did enough to win it and that's all that matters. Now that they're over paid or that their teams couldn't repeat, so what. 

 

Hopefully the team can continue to win and then we'll learn how to build a good team. 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

And where is Eli most of the time? Out of the playoffs 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

18 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Who in the world is pimping Alex for the 6-3 record or giving him a pass?

 

 

Plenty of Redskins fans.  I've read "he's 6-3 that's all that matters" type of posts constantly here and on other boards.  Some also like to throw in Kirk's team's record as well as a bonus.  It's crazy to evaluate a QB on wins and losses just as it's crazy to use the same measuring stick to rate a baseball pitcher.  Tons of other factors go into a team record. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

I disagree here. results is what matters. if the process was flawed, then eventually the results will suffer. but if we keep winning by non-conventional methods, i wouldn't say it's still bad process, but I'd question if we really understood the process. 

 

Take Eli and Joe in their SBs, neither had great years but their defenses carried them, and both were thought to be below SB quality QBs, but when the big dance came, they did enough to win it and that's all that matters. Now that they're over paid or that their teams couldn't repeat, so what. 

 

Hopefully the team can continue to win and then we'll learn how to build a good team. 

 

I think the key thing for me is to see this defense rise up today.  Louis Reddick, one of the guys touting Alex was an upgrade in the off season, has done a 180 on it big time from what I've noticed.  He talked the other day that this Redskins team reminds him of the Gibbs 2 teams, good defense but putrid offense and if they eke into the playoffs they will be smoked by any team who could move the ball.

 

He also said though he has concerns about this defense based on how they played a few games against explosive offenses.  In other words, he isn't totally sold on the defense.  That's sort of where I am at.  I like this defense but we've seen games to make us pause about it.  I'd like to see a big game from the defense today.  Am not sure the offense has it in them.  But the defense on the other hand has that potential, I want to see a dominating performance.  Because I somewhat agree that you can ride on the defense but the defense has shown some cracks, I am just as interested today in seeing whether the defense has a big game than I am if the offense can improve. 

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He talked the other day that this Redskins team reminds him of the Gibbs 2 teams, good defense but putrid offense and if they eke into the playoffs they will be smoked by any team who could move the ball.

I totally get that, but looking at the playoff picture really is playing out well for us. The teams we may face, especially in round one are not world beaters, more like flawed teams that we can build a gamelan against

. Carolina, who we've already beat

. Minnesota with HeWhoShallNotBeNamed Voldemort at QB can be scary but can also be beaten 

. Philly is making a ton of mistakes and doesn't look scary

. Dallas, we've beaten once and will get another look at soon 

. And Chicago has an unproven QB who we don't know can handle pressures of the postseason. 

 

I'll admit that Atlanta, Seattle and GB scare me for different reasons, but they may not even make it. So there aren't too many really high powered offenses we may face. 

 

So if we can repeat the 2006 game against Tampa then I'm all for it. 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

20 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I totally get that, but looking at the playoff picture really is playing out well for us. The teams we may face, especially in round one are not world beaters, more like flawed teams that we can build a gamelan against

. Carolina, who we've already beat

. Minnesota with HeWhoShallNotBeNamed Voldemort at QB can be scary but can also be beaten 

. Philly is making a ton of mistakes and doesn't look scary

. Dallas, we've beaten once and will get another look at soon 

. And Chicago has an unproven QB who we don't know can handle pressures of the postseason. 

 

I'll admit that Atlanta, Seattle and GB scare me for different reasons, but they may not even make it. So there aren't too many really high powered offenses we may face. 

 

So if we can repeat the 2006 game against Tampa then I'm all for it. 

I guess.  We are a very average team on a good day. An improved but overrated D and an anemic offense. But we could land us a first round win if all holds up because the first round opponents aren't world beaters. Ok, I guess.  I'm too old and jaded to get goosepimply over that. Better than 2-14 but 2-14 could get me my Holy Grail.  

 

Eat at a fart Bruce!

[bakedtater1]

Show of hands..let's play pretend and pretend that the Redskins win the division and win a playoff game and lose a divsional rounder all with Alex Smith as our qb and let's pretend even more he finishes the season the playoff win and playoff loss the same way he has all year..so in other words he finishes the season off meh..show of hands who will be demanding the Redskins start 2019 with a different qb?

 

[Fat Stupid Loser]

7 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Show of hands..let's play pretend and pretend that the Redskins win the division and win a playoff game and lose a divsional rounder all with Alex Smith as our qb and let's pretend even more he finishes the season the playoff win and playoff loss the same way he has all year..so in other words he finishes the season off meh..show of hands who will be demanding the Redskins start 2019 with a different qb?

 

Same position we have been in forever.  Groping in the darkness for the elusive franchise QB.  We either stay medium and are in no position to get one or we suck and are in position but they don't pan out, because most don't pan out.  Besides, if we miraculously luck into one, we won't want to pay him the money those guys demand.  

 

So so to answer your question, we only change QBs next year if a miracle happens.  We are in JAG QB mode for the foreseeable future, again.  And Alex is as good a JAG as anybody.

 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

21 minutes ago, bakedtater1 said:

Show of hands..let's play pretend and pretend that the Redskins win the division and win a playoff game and lose a divsional rounder all with Alex Smith as our qb and let's pretend even more he finishes the season the playoff win and playoff loss the same way he has all year..so in other words he finishes the season off meh..show of hands who will be demanding the Redskins start 2019 with a different qb?

 

There will be a few who want to waste picks trying to upgrade Alex...but I would venture the majority would want a couple (at least) OL in the 3rd or earlier, A 1st flight WR in the 1st, and a BEAST Heavy RB to compliment Guice BEFORE any QB is looked at in 2019...Maybe 2020..

The D is set for a couple years with maybe a "gift" LB in the later rounds BPA

 

I believe Alex will "manage" a playoff win as NFC East Champs this year.

 

Just look at Dak who was praised as a Franchise QB and is now struggling without a WR and OL ..Same with Alex..give him some tools

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Thinking Skins said:

I totally get that, but looking at the playoff picture really is playing out well for us. The teams we may face, especially in round one are not world beaters, more like flawed teams that we can build a gamelan against

. Carolina, who we've already beat

. Minnesota with HeWhoShallNotBeNamed Voldemort at QB can be scary but can also be beaten 

. Philly is making a ton of mistakes and doesn't look scary

. Dallas, we've beaten once and will get another look at soon 

. And Chicago has an unproven QB who we don't know can handle pressures of the postseason. 

 

I'll admit that Atlanta, Seattle and GB scare me for different reasons, but they may not even make it. So there aren't too many really high powered offenses we may face. 

 

So if we can repeat the 2006 game against Tampa then I'm all for it. 

 

My main point is i am not 100% sold on the defense.  I am in theory sold on it.  But they have been smoked (forget our offense on that front) by some explosive offenses so am curious how they fare against a medium level offense today.  My point is if this defense has some fools gold element to it  -- as some web sites persist on like football outsiders and Reddick questioned the other day the defense too and he recalled the Redskins 2005 defense because he was there, then -- then I am not sure if they even make the playoffs. 

 

However, if the defense is for real, yeah I can see sort of a 2005 version of the team, gritty shut down defense, good running back, mediocre to less than that QB and mediocre to less than that passing weapons.

 

Swing game I think today, if they win they'd be tough to catch and the team's confidence would be riding high into Dallas on Thanksgiving.  If they lose and lets say Dallas and or Philly wins -- not sure if I love their chances in that context.  I think they can survive a loss if the Eagles and Dallas also lose.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

14 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

There will be a few who want to waste picks trying to upgrade Alex...but I would venture the majority would want a couple (at least) OL in the 3rd or earlier, A 1st flight WR in the 1st, and a BEAST Heavy RB to compliment Guice BEFORE any QB is looked at in 2019...Maybe 2020..

The D is set for a couple years with maybe a "gift" LB in the later rounds BPA

 

I believe Alex will "manage" a playoff win as NFC East Champs this year.

 

Just look at Dak who was praised as a Franchise QB and is now struggling without a WR and OL ..Same with Alex..give him some tools

Tools aren't Alex's problem. But I agree with the rest of your post.  They made their bed with the QB situation.  Throwing resources and picks at the position next year is even more stupid than what they have already done.  O line, Oline, RB, Receiver, LB. 

[bh32]

I was just looking at some old Alex Smith college games and noticed he wasn't check down at all in college..So my question what happened to him?

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

There will be a few who want to waste picks trying to upgrade Alex...but I would venture the majority would want a couple (at least) OL in the 3rd or earlier, A 1st flight WR in the 1st, and a BEAST Heavy RB to compliment Guice BEFORE any QB is looked at in 2019...Maybe 2020..

The D is set for a couple years with maybe a "gift" LB in the later rounds BPA

 

I believe Alex will "manage" a playoff win as NFC East Champs this year.

 

Just look at Dak who was praised as a Franchise QB and is now struggling without a WR and OL ..Same with Alex..give him some tools

 

Agree with most of this.  Tools are not Alex’s problem. Also I would not take RB in the 1st 4. We are ok there.  Otherwise I am with you.  I like OL OL And more OL. Maybe WR or edge rush early.  

[Morneblade]

2 hours ago, bakedtater1 said:

Show of hands..let's play pretend and pretend that the Redskins win the division and win a playoff game and lose a divsional rounder all with Alex Smith as our qb and let's pretend even more he finishes the season the playoff win and playoff loss the same way he has all year..so in other words he finishes the season off meh..show of hands who will be demanding the Redskins start 2019 with a different qb?

 

 

First, I don't see how we win a playoff game with Alex playing like he is. But if the rest of the team steps up, Peterson has a huge game, the D causes like 3 turnovers and stuffs the opposing offense, and ST kill it, it could happen I suppose. So lets go with that scenario.

 

I don't know if it makes that much difference.

 

We can't realistically unload Alex for another 2 years, and even then we have to do it as a June 1st cut. So, he's going to be here until then.

 

Also, I've haven't heard of any QB prospect that look good and might be where we pick. And I"m not seeing anyone worth trading up for.

 

Basically, I think no matter what, he'll be starting next year. The only way out of that is if he gets hurt.

 

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

I guess.  We are a very average team on a good day. An improved but overrated D and an anemic offense. But we could land us a first round win if all holds up because the first round opponents aren't world beaters. Ok, I guess.  I'm too old and jaded to get goosepimply over that. Better than 2-14 but 2-14 could get me my Holy Grail.  

 

Eat at a fart Bruce!

Totally disagree, playoffs with a win will put this team as far along as its been towards a SB since 1992. We'd have questions but there are always questions. But so it takes us a lucky bounce or a missed FG or whatever for us to be in the dance with this team

[Thinking Skins]

1 hour ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

There will be a few who want to waste picks trying to upgrade Alex...but I would venture the majority would want a couple (at least) OL in the 3rd or earlier, A 1st flight WR in the 1st, and a BEAST Heavy RB to compliment Guice BEFORE any QB is looked at in 2019...Maybe 2020..

The D is set for a couple years with maybe a "gift" LB in the later rounds BPA

 

I believe Alex will "manage" a playoff win as NFC East Champs this year.

 

Just look at Dak who was praised as a Franchise QB and is now struggling without a WR and OL ..Same with Alex..give him some tools

 

I think it would be like most other years with this front office. We'd have a bunch of unproven guys going into their second year and be looking to see what they give us as they get more time. We'd probably look to upgrade somewhere like ILB or WR based on the draft and keep adding tools. And it's a question of how Marshall / Quinn Harris and Doctson finish up, as well as  Cooper. Then we have Sims who could develop into a weapon, SDH who could be our future at ILB, a few unproven corners. But I think there's a lot to be happy about if we can repeat 2005. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

 

Just look at Dak who was praised as a Franchise QB and is now struggling without a WR and OL ..Same with Alex..give him some tools

Dak sucks too.  If we’re lucky Jerry will make good on extending him.  I venture a guess though this division goes directly back to Philly next season with Wentz fully recovered and another offseason under his belt.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

10 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Totally disagree, playoffs with a win will put this team as far along as its been towards a SB since 1992. We'd have questions but there are always questions. But so it takes us a lucky bounce or a missed FG or whatever for us to be in the dance with this team

I get it, and half of me is with you.  The other half just knows better.  Anything that maintains the current front office, such as the illusion of we're doing it right, because of an outlier season, is a bad thing.