Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[SkinsFTW]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Polian and Reddick were selling on NFL live all off season about how the NEW version of Alex is the new reality of him.   Reddick went as far as saying he didn't care for Alex Smith as a QB previously,  But this new 2017 version is a whole new different dude. 

 

 

It's quite telling when some nfl "geniuses" like Polian, turn out to be a buffoon about a lot of things. Bruce isn't far off being a HOF front office guy after all lol. I wouldn't say that about Polian if I hadn't listened to about 2-3 years of him on Seriusxm just about daily. He was making the argument about Alex being better than fans think years ago. (Because fans are dumb) Chiefs fans called in just about every single day about Alex being garbage long before and during 2017. They had actual great points.  Polian to me seemed like he didn't actually watch football games, therefore, I wanted no part of AS. I totally believed that Chiefs fans were right. (So did Andy Reid BTW) I even laughed about the Chiefs situation comparing it to us with Campbell. Alex to me was always going to be another Jason Campbell and so far.... Fans aren't as dumb as NFL "experts" and"genuises" think.

 

In fact I would bet that in Andy Reid's system for years Campbell is still in the league while Alex in JC's situation is also on his couch. And I was always a down on "Candle" guy. Never saw it that he would win anything, just like the current qb. Alex Smith was a huge first pick bust. He still has some fooled. It's unbelievable.

 

The difference between Alex and the guy he's being compared to by some is that the Ravens didn't even keep Dilfer around after he won the SB as their QB. They started scrubs like Grbac the next year. Dilfer was done.

 

We're stuck with Alex Smith for quite a while, and a SB win or best defense in over a decade? I'm just not seeing it yet.

 

[Taylor 36]

12 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

It's possible for Smith to be protective of the football, which helps us win games, while also not playing very well in multiple other facets, which is holding us back from being much more complete and scarier to opponents.

 

Everyone here knows that, right? It doesn't mean he's willing us to victory all by himself, carrying all 52 other guys on his back with his arm. It just means simple things that are boring and annoying, like advancing 8 yards on 3rd and 15 where everyone is booing, instead of slinging it 25 for a pick let's say, actually do make a difference. Especially over time. It's just an example, and assumes nothing was there and that the QB was forcing it, and didn't miss a wide open guy for the 1st. This example could also result in other outcomes, like first down for the offense, which would be a net positive. But just for the sake of providing an example of where Alex's conservatism contributes to a net positive on a game.

 

So take the example above and say we were on the 50 yard line, 3rd down 15 to go. 8 yard pass gets us to the OPP 42. Tress Way is ballin so he pins them at the 8. VS throwing a pick to the OPP 35 where he is tackled right away. 27 yard difference in field position, that's pretty big. Especially since most would have had the thought "well we were just going to punt anyway, not the worst thing that could have happened." And they're right. It's not the end of the world. But field position is critical, and makes a huge difference over time. There are countless examples of plays throughout a game just like this, that tangibly effect the other two phases of the football team in special teams and defense.

 

The crowd that puts zero credence into the positive effect of little negative plays and TO's is so confusing to me. It doesn't mean Smith is playing like a great QB so chill out on feeling so annoyed. But it helps. And it's OK to point it out.

 

As for the beat guys, I have little doubt this isn't what they signed up for. Jay/FO I'm sure all expect better, as the contract justifies. I'm sure they also realize the value in the above, as Jay has pointed out on numerous occasions.

There is a big difference between playing for field position and playing scared.  Alex plays scared.  That is why he has happy feet in the pocket, even when all the starting OL are in.  That is why he immediately checks down on most plays even when he has guys wide open.  And, even if that was his game, it would show how incompetent at the position he is if he is playing for field position when we are down and need a score or two to get back in the game.  Even the best QB's in the history of the game have thrown INT's, many have done so when trying to lead their team from behind.  It happens, but that's what it takes to win sometimes.  When the Redskins go down by 10 points, even in the first half, the game is over, because Alex plays scared.

[Stadium-Armory]

At some point we will need to draft our next QB and have him sit for a year while Smith starts. Then, maybe we have an "overlap year" where Smith starts the year and rookie comes in later in the year. Maybe that is 2020. 

[Skinsinparadise]

55 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Phew, beat reporters are now creating news that Jay is frustrated with Alex?

 

JP Finlay whose career is entirely tied to the Redskins and the relationships he builds at Redskins Park is going to risk it all for what exactly?  If anything, hearing him say anything remotely negative should alarm you that it’s potentially worse than the way he relayed it.  

 

 

 

Yeah that's what confounds me the most about some of the positions here.  If multiple guys who cover the team are correct, the coaches aren't privately pumping their fists about Alex's play so if the whole thing is about the dude is a winner and we are supposed to learn to love this style of play because its the lynchpin of the winning -- then it looks like Jay needs to get the memo on it, too.

 

Yeah Jay isn't going to rip his players, its not his style.   We heard multiple times he was privately frustrated with Josh Doctson and on occasion it would come out in an interview in coach speak but he usually peppered it with some praise, too.  That's how Jay rolls.

 

Chad Dukes defined his talk radio callers as being these categories

 

A.  Alex isn't good, period. 

B.  Alex hasn't been good but give him a break, in time he will improve

 

but on the thread we got another position 

 

C.  He maybe hasn't played good but lets sell it anyway as for a key part of them winning.   And to me that position comes off like based on the fear that maybe this is the dude's ceiling so lets try to sell it some worse case.

 

I think the B. position is fine.  Give him more time.  More healthy weapons.  But C befuddles me aside from covering Alex in case this is as good as it gets. 

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/oct/23/redskins-winning-spite-jay-gruden-not-having-fun-a/

Here’s what Gruden had to say about his prize $94 million quarterback the day after the big win on Oct. 14 at home against Carolina:

“I think the critical side of me, the coaching side of me, there are some things we’ve got to clean up. Get his eyes in certain progressions a little bit quicker and maybe get off some a little bit quicker. Sometimes he hangs on too long giving guys too much of a chance where he needs get off of them, get to the next guy. But for the most part, I thought he improved from last week to this week and there is still some improvement to do for everybody across the board. I like where he’s at. I like that he’s buying in and he’s learning.”

Here’s what Gruden had to say about his prize $94 million quarterback the day after the big win Sunday at home against Dallas.

“He’s missed some throws uncharacteristically, for sure. Some of it is he’s felt a little pressure, hasn’t gotten his feet set from time to time. But, he has made some great throws under duress. Escape the pocket a few times getting out of trouble. Only took one sack yesterday which is good, [offensive] line did a pretty good job for the most part. So, there are things we can all improve on. Receivers, tight ends, backs, and we will.”

Looks, progression, get rid of the ball quicker, fixating on receivers, missing throws, getting feet set — other than all that, Smith has been fine.

This has been the sanitized version of Gruden’s assessment of his quarterback.

I’m guessing it may a little tougher behind the scenes.

[KDawg]

@Skinsinparadise

 

I actually see more of a D around here. Hasn't been good, may be at his ceiling, but his lack of turning the ball over and the fact he hasn't taken many sacks has given the team the chance to win, but we still need to think about upgrading the position sooner rather than later. 

 

I think this differs from your C based on the fact that a lot of us aren't under the illusion that Alex Smith has even remotely lived up to some of our expectations as far as QB play goes. But the team is winning football games. That could be attributed to many factors, and its certainly not JUST about the QB. 

 

But my biggest takeaway from reading the forums is that many of our fans totally discount just how valuable it is to not turn the ball over or take multiple momentum changing sacks

 

On the same token, I think it's also underappreciated just how much value a quarterback who takes slightly more risks and can push the ball down field more brings to the table.

 

I have a solution... Keep the current formula for 2018/2019. Stock pile draft choices. In 2020, find a way to trade up for Tu'a without trading our own draft picks. 

 

I'm brilliant. I know no real life GM has even remotely contemplated this plan.

[Darrell Green Fan]

6 hours ago, -JB- said:

Man, if I had Mahomes waiting in the wings, I’d trade Alex Smith too.  

 

They spent 2 first and a third to trade up for Mahomes at a time when Smith was winning and playing like, well, Alex Smith.   Why do you think they would make such a huge investment seeing as Smith was winning and all?  I think the answer is obvious. 

[NoCalMike]

The thing though is, some of Gruden's criticisms of Alex Smith, while perfectly legitimate, sound more like the characteristics of a QB playing in a new offense, with skill position players that are new to him.  It means what we see right now is not necessarily what he will look like in the future.  I remember when the former QB had mixed reviews of games, one of things said over and over is that he needs to trust the guys around him more.  Right now Alex is likely suffering from the same problem. These guys aren't Kelce/Hill/Hunt/etc etc.....their timing is different, their ability to separate off their routes, to run their routes....all different.  

Some of these issues take time to solve.  The throws he has missed, some are inexcusable, no excuses being made there, but others I think can (and better) improve in the future.

 

I remember in the Bucs game there was a pass to Harris (and another couple to other guys) where they referred to Smith's passes as "throwing guys open" that kind of stuff takes a lot of trust, especially in the current environment when they aren't putting up 30 points a game and a single turnover could change the outcome of the game.  You need to trust you are on the same page as guys because every pass thrown to a guy that isn't "wide open" is leaving you somewhat vulnerable as a passer, (remember the INT to Dix when Reed just flat out stopped his route?)

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

@Skinsinparadise

 

I actually see more of a D around here. Hasn't been good, may be at his ceiling, but his lack of turning the ball over and the fact he hasn't taken many sacks has given the team the chance to win, but we still need to think about upgrading the position sooner rather than later. 

 

 

I wasn't really thinking of you with my version of C.  It's more related to three people who post a heck of a lot on the subject. I don't find your position as the definition that similar.

 

For example, the case that you made days back that Colt might be the better bet than Alex if the team has flaws (post O line injuries) that demands more aggressive play to offset that whereas Alex is the better bet with a lesser flawed team -- actually makes my typical argument as opposed to fits what some have said to defend Alex's play. 

 

The fact that other units are good or bad are often played down by certain people defending Alex. Every time I pose what would Alex do with the 2017 roster, atrocious defense, atrocious special teams, Robert Kelley-Perine as lead backs -- its typically met with crickets.

 

If some of those same people said look, Alex needs other units to take the lead more often than not. Would we have beaten Tampa if the defense didn't turnover the ball 4 times?  probably not.  Would we have beaten certain teams without Adrian Peterson on fire?  Probably not.  Would we have beaten the Giants if the defense didn't shut down Barkley?  Probably not.  But Alex didn't spoil the success -- he held serve and that's all we need him to do if our defense and or running game takes the lead.  I get that argument.  But that's my take of it not so much the people who defend the play.

 

 

2 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

But my biggest takeaway from reading the forums is that many of our fans totally discount just how valuable it is to not turn the ball over or take multiple momentum changing sacks

 

 

Alex Smith is typically among the leaders as to QBs who are sacked the most.  This year he's middle of the pack -- not great -- not bad -- so so.   So I presume you want to talk pure turnovers versus sacks unless you mean fumbles but even if so Alex has the 6th most fumbles.

 

This isn't directed at you.  The turnover stuff to me comes off typically to me as strawman arguments to just ridicule the other argument.  We all know turnovers matter.  But if people are going to make the case its the be all and end all stat but when cornered say well do you guys think it doesn't matter?  Well, yeah, sure it matters.  A lot of different things matter.  There are a number of variables in the soup.  Be like me saying you guys don't care about touchdown passes?  Are you telling me touchdown passes don't matter?  Are you telling me completion percentage and accuracy doesn't count?   Moving the ball and yards don't matter? 

 

 I think we all get that there are a number of variables that matter in the soup.  But if we are going to play up one variable as the key then just ride that argument out.   

 

If I am just talking pure turnovers.   We all understand that avoiding turnovers help the defense because they don't have to deal with short fields on their end and make it more difficult for opponents to score.  That is true.  But flip that around.  It happens all too often that the defense causes turnovers and the offense doesn't capitalize on them enough.  I was sitting just 5 rows above behind the bench in the Tampa game, I saw the Stroman INT, they got the ball, if I recall at the 11, only got a field goal.  I saw two defenders shake their heads when the offense was stopped. 

 

No one discounts turnovers.  But the defense has caused 18 turnovers. 4th in the league.  The defense has given the offense plenty of good field positions.  the turnover ratio isn't a one man show with just Alex.  

 

But I am looking for more than just that.  And I actually am on more of the optimistic camp on this thread as for expectations moving forward.  I am just saying i am not sold on what I've seen so far.   But hope and think it will change.

 

I'd take Alex's version of mediocrity over Colt's version of mediocrity.  But to me if he keeps playing like this -- can't see us competing that often with the big boys who have a big boy QB.    Hopefully that changes.  I'd like to see the 2017 version of the dude.  

[Veryoldschool]

Let the suckage continue all the way to a 10-6 finish and a butt ugly division title!  Be unhappy if you chose to be but I am going the other way, I am embracing the pig with the coral lipstick on its lips and I don’t care what anybody thinks about it.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Let the suckage continue all the way to a 10-6 finish and a butt ugly division title!  Be unhappy if you chose to be but I am going the other way, I am embracing the pig with the coral lipstick on its lips and I don’t care what anybody thinks about it.

 

Don't think anyone is unhappy.  They are just pointing out that the QB is the weak link not the cause of the wins.  Some of these same people are gushing over other elements of the team depending on whose posting whether its Adrian Peterson, the D line, Swearinger, Jay, etc.   

[Morneblade]

11 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Easy now - Was not making a proclamation about it's size ?  You must have missed where I said he is not living up to the contract right now, and that is regardless of how you cut it. 

 

I agree, it's a big number. Just for me it's better to look at the actual money paid by year not an average per year. Like i said - I may take a different look later. I like looking at ways to cut data that make the most sense. A sordid hobby. 

 

I think you misstook the capitalized word. I did that for emphasis, to show that all the contracts are shown that way. I think you have to start there. Either that, of you have to look at every contract and see where the "get out" year is, and then adjust every one of them accordingly. It wasn't meant any other way.

 

Because, let's face it, all contracts are worked out that way.

 

The other differences are the amount of guaranteed money, and the % of guaranteed money in the contract. With some of the contracts they are mostly incentive driven. Derek Carr has only $40 million guaranteed on a $125 million contract, or 32% of the total contract. That $125 million puts him at 6th overall, but if he plays like he is this season, he's not going to get most of that money. But then Alex, in 9th place with a $94 million dollar contract, has $55 million in guarantees, or 58.5% of the total contract. He's going to get the majority of this money no matter how well, or poorly he plays. Both of these figures are high compared to the other top contracts.

[RemoveSnyder]

Alex is still learning a new offense 

[repeat]

Team has a winning record, they must be good 

[repeat]

 

[Commander -JB-]

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

They spent 2 first and a third to trade up for Mahomes at a time when Smith was winning and playing like, well, Alex Smith.   Why do you think they would make such a huge investment seeing as Smith was winning and all?  I think the answer is obvious. 

No **** Mahomes is a better QB than Alex Smith ?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

This is a weird season. 9 games in, and I'm convinced we are going to win the division farily comfortably. I also think we're going to be like a 10 point underdog in the first round.

 

That pretty much defines existence when Alex Smith is your QB.

 

It really feels like I'm rooting for the Bengals. We have the same coach. We have the same quarterback. And neither are going away for a long long time.

[Veryoldschool]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't think anyone is unhappy.  They are just pointing out that the QB is the weak link not the cause of the wins.  Some of these same people are gushing over other elements of the team depending on whose posting whether its Adrian Peterson, the D line, Swearinger, Jay, etc.   

 

Yeah, we all get that some of us have moved on and decided to embrace the horror....

[Commander -JB-]

HOLD UP! ✋

 

Are you idiots insisting that the Redskins trade two first rounders and a third to trade up for another QB? Because that’s why the Chiefs traded Alex Smith to the Redskins.  Because they traded all that for a QB.  Are we seriously going there?  AGAIN? ?

[bakedtater1]

6 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

Let the suckage continue all the way to a 10-6 finish and a butt ugly division title!  Be unhappy if you chose to be but I am going the other way, I am embracing the pig with the coral lipstick on its lips and I don’t care what anybody thinks about it.

You would be very welcomed to the good juju thread friend

[Thinking Skins]

22 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

At some point we will need to draft our next QB and have him sit for a year while Smith starts. Then, maybe we have an "overlap year" where Smith starts the year and rookie comes in later in the year. Maybe that is 2020. 

So, this probably will go into another thread at the proper time, but I'm more in favor of what has worked for our last few good QBs here,and that's the free agent route along with the mid to low draft picks. 

 

Not to say go all John Beck in 2020, but if we could say pick up one of the qbs from this year's draft that we liked when they're ultimately let go of for a younger newer model, then let them sit in the system and learn with no pressure. 

 

I mean look at Gus, Trent Green, and now [...]. Then there's the FA(&trades) qbs like brunell, Johnson and now Smith. They'd be the stop gaps until Gruden can develop the new guy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

11 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Yeah, we all get that some of us have moved on and decided to embrace the horror....

 

I am not really embracing or not embracing what I've seen from Alex, just seeing how its playing out.  Happy that the roster finally has a legitimate running back.  The defense can finally stop the run -- or at least they usually can and the special teams is good for a change.  Too bad our passing game once our strength is now a weakness.  Imagine if we had a passing game, too?  That seems to be a theme on this thread.  So if Alex had a 178 yard game and barely moves the ball -- and Peterson goes nuts with 100 yards plus and or the defense has a monster game -- not saying yeah Alex you did it.  But as for the team overall pulling it off, its cool.

 

I am one of the more optimistic people on Alex getting it together.  I'd LOVE to see a game where we win because of Alex purely for this reason if we know we can win a game by airing it out -- we got a shot to win a playoff game if we make it there, that would be cool for a change.  Making the playoffs and be instantly eliminated in a noncompetitive game while is nice and better than not making it there -- but it fits the been there done that drill, every 3-4 years or so we make that dance with a hiatus during the Zorn years.  It's been 3 years so its about due.  

 

7 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

So, this probably will go into another thread at the proper time, but I'm more in favor of what has worked for our last few good QBs here,and that's the free agent route along with the mid to low draft picks. 

 

Not to say go all John Beck in 2020, but if we could say pick up one of the qbs from this year's draft that we liked when they're ultimately let go of for a younger newer model, then let them sit in the system and learn with no pressure. 

 

I mean look at Gus, Trent Green, and now Kirk Cousins. Then there's the FA(&trades) qbs like brunell, Johnson and now Smith. They'd be the stop gaps until Gruden can develop the new guy. 

 

I don't look at the draft though as playing it with preconceived notions.  I think if you love a guy in the first round even if you have to trade up like the Chiefs did it then pull the trigger if you don't then don't -- don't force it.    It's typically tough to find a QB in FA, the Vikings situation notwithstanding.   And typically I am not a fan of trading picks for veterans.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

13 hours ago, -JB- said:

No **** Mahomes is a better QB than Alex Smith ?

 

Again you are missing the point entirely. KC was winning with Alex Smith who was in his prime.  Yet they still felt the need to gamble away 2 first and a 3rd for a different QB. We know all too well that drafting a QB is a risk, there was no guarantee what so every that Mahomes would be this good. Yet the Chiefs felt the need to make this move for the same reason the Niners went in another direction, because Alex Smith ain't all that good.   

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 hours ago, -JB- said:

HOLD UP! ✋

 

Are you idiots insisting that the Redskins trade two first rounders and a third to trade up for another QB? Because that’s why the Chiefs traded Alex Smith to the Redskins.  Because they traded all that for a QB.  Are we seriously going there?  AGAIN? ?

 

 

 

You totally contradicted the posts I just quoted of yours in this post, you realize that right?  In one post you are praising the Chiefs because Mahomes is better than Smith, here you are critical of making such a move.  

[Skinsinparadise]

this article sums it well for me just spotted it

 

http://www.sportsjourney.com/2018/11/offensive-scoring-could-turn-redskins-into-a-playoff-factor/?utm_campaign=shareaholic&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=socialnetwork

The Redskins have been a surprising storyline around the beltway and also nationwide. The narrative changes, however, outside of the beltway as to how good the team actually is.

 

Washington has exceeded most expectations by posting a current record of 6-3 and commanding two-game lead in the NFC East division. For everything positive that has happened for the team like their defense becoming a factor, a stout running game led by the resurgent Adrian Peterson and a special teams unit that is led by punter Tress Way and kicker Dustin Hopkins, the Redskins are still doubted by many.

 

The doubts come from an offense that has had difficulty finding the end zone, especially through the air. Quarterback Alex Smith has been as advertised with his abilities to extend plays and take care of the football. Unfortunately, the 14-year veteran has not put up the type of QB numbers accustomed in coach Jay Gruden’s offense. Smith has thrown for only 10 touchdowns on the season. If the Redskins are to go on and win their division and become a factor in the NFC playoffs, they will undoubtedly need more points on the board to keep up with the likes of the New Orleans Saints and Los Angeles Rams.

 

It’s no secret that the lack of points by the Redskins offense has been a key reason why most critics scoff at the team being a factor in the playoffs. Some naysayers are still not convinced the Burgundy and Gold will even qualify for the postseason despite their 6-2 success this season against the NFC Conference.

 

Washington ranks 27th in the NFL in points scored per game at 19.6. Their offense ranks 25th in passing yards per game at 216.2.

Everyone from coaches to players understands more points are needed.

 

Gruden spoke about execution on offense to produce more points during his daily press conference from the INOVA Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park.

 

...Smith mentioned what he feels needs to change on offense in order to score more points.

 

“I think looking at the film there’s such small things that we talk about that we’re so close to – all of a sudden – it being a 28-point game very easily,” Smith said. “I think even if you count the drive before the half – the two-minute drive – I felt like on a third-and-four that we didn’t execute on easily, could have been converted into a touchdown potentially. Yeah, not very far away from scoring a lot more points. So, situational things we do talk about. But certainly, the turnover we had where we only walked away with three (field goal) – hit the ball to Vernon [Davis] – all of a sudden, I think you convert two or three of those and all of a sudden it is almost a 30-point game.”

 

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I don't look at the draft though as playing it with preconceived notions.  I think if you love a guy in the first round even if you have to trade up like the Chiefs did it then pull the trigger if you don't then don't -- don't force it.    It's typically tough to find a QB in FA, the Vikings situation notwithstanding.   And typically I am not a fan of trading picks for veterans.

 

I don't think you can say "the Vikings situation notwithstanding". Every year there's something like the Vikings KC situation, the Vikings Case Keenum Situation, the Vikings Teddy Bridgewater situation. Before that there was the Colts Peyton Manning situation, the 49ers Caepernick situation, the Patriots with the Garappolo, the 49ers right now with Beathard and Mullens, etc. There are a lot of these stories that each have their own unique twist of events, but it leads to a QB with some starting experience, who may be able to develop into a quality starter, being let go via free agency. 

 

I think this is kinda a reversal of roles for us because I'm normally the all things draft person and you want us more active in FA. But my value draft question is generally less about the player himself, but what's the dropoff between picking this player now and the next set of players that may be available. So If we didn't get Payne, who's the next good DT we may get in a lower round? Or could we trade back and get a Payne like player. The breadth of positions outside of QB makes this a question that is easier to ask for a non-QB position and harder to ask for the QB position. Each QB has his own makeup that make him a boom or bust. Its not like a OLB with elite speed and bend that you know can set the league on fire. 

 

The thing about the UDFA / low round pick / other teams backup route is that these guys generally have less pressure on them, so they can grow into the league, they have more to prove because (like KC) they generally feel they should be starting and want to prove it, the idea of playing these guys is (in my opinion) better on building a team because they get their jobs because of their work in the film room, work on the field and how they play and not just where they were drafted, and if they don't work its less likely to set a team back because we didn't give up a high draft pick to sign them. 

 

Bringing this back to Alex Smith. Lets assume he's going to be here for 3-4 more years. There are several QBs right now that are going to become available over that time, and unlike the draft some of these QBs will have NFL film on them (be it preseason, or regular season) which is probably a better grade for how they'll do in the league than college tape. So if we (a) got rid of McCoy and brought in a younger body or (b) went with 3 QBs or (c) signed somebody to the PS, we could be developing the next Trent Green . 

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

19 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Chad Dukes defined his talk radio callers as being these categories

 

A.  Alex isn't good, period. 

B.  Alex hasn't been good but give him a break, in time he will improve

 

but on the thread we got another position 

 

C.  He maybe hasn't played good but lets sell it anyway as for a key part of them winning.   And to me that position comes off like based on the fear that maybe this is the dude's ceiling so lets try to sell it some worse case.

 

 

 

I would define my C option as .... Not as good as anticipated but he does enough small things to not lose us games and hopefully his quick passing, trust and reads improve with time and reps. Basically, its not all bad.

 

I dont get the "selling" part. Seems some ppl who have strong negative opinions of Alex are coming from a position that Jay and FO sold him as an upgrade and us fans who dont hold strong negative views of Alex are polly annas who are over selling his turnover ratio as a way to sell him to the other fans.

 

If anyone here thought Alex was an upgrade based on what Jay or the FO said and you didnt use your own eyes and judgment .. thats on you. If you cant see some of the good Alex can bring bc of his bad, thats your opinion and right. My opinion is its not all bad.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I don't think you can say "the Vikings situation notwithstanding". Every year there's something like the Vikings KC situation, the Vikings Case Keenum Situation, the Vikings Teddy Bridgewater situation.

 

Don't think so.  Not even close IMO.   And I am not going on a leap with this one.  It was part of the reason why he got the dough that he got, it was so unique.  This off season wasd= unique and there was plenty of talk about it being unique..  We can go back to Drew Brees I guess but the dude was banged up at the time.    Bridgewater is also coming off of a major injury.   Keenum was a journeyman -- one year wonder mostly.  He's not exactly burning it up now, 28th in QBR. 

 

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I think this is kinda a reversal of roles for us because I'm normally the all things draft person and you want us more active in FA.

 

Not really.  I post a heck of a lot more in the draft thread than you do.  I am obsessed with the draft.  I don't see that to nearly the same degree from you.  I get you are passionate about embracing they don't trade their picks as much as they used to.  I embrace that, too.  

 

As for FA, it doesn't seem to matter how many times I post my position including directly to you that it gets mischaracterized as if I embrace big FA sprees.  My position has been consistent and clear.  I'd rather have less players (even if its just one) spending the same amount of money versus spreading it out like Bruce tends to do acquiring more players with that money.  So instead of going to the pizzeria and buying 6 garlic rolls.  I want to buy the slice of pizza for the SAME money.

 

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Each QB has his own makeup that make him a boom or bust. Its not like a OLB with elite speed and bend that you know can set the league on fire. 

 

 

If the point is its hard to find QBs in the draft.  Sure, I agree.  I trust Jay to figure it out.  He found Dalton in the 2nd round.  He deciphered quickly that Kirk should be the starter here, etc.

 

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

The thing about the UDFA / low round pick / other teams backup route is that these guys generally have less pressure on them, so they can grow into the league, they have more to prove because (like KC) they generally feel they should be starting and want to prove it, the idea of playing these guys is (in my opinion) better on building a team because they get their jobs because of their work in the film room, work on the field and how they play and not just where they were drafted, and if they don't work its less likely to set a team back because we didn't give up a high draft pick to sign them. 

 

Bring this back to the draft, I just don't buy that you go at it with preconceived and rigid notions like that.  Go Zen.  Go with what your scouts think and feel.  Yeah they aren't going to get it right all the time -- so what -- it comes with the turf.  As McVay likes to say attack success -- be aggressive, take chances.  No guts no glory -- am not interested in how to keep the team 9-7 for perpetuity.  Swing for the fences sometimes.

 

27 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Bringing this back to Alex Smith. Lets assume he's going to be here for 3-4 more years. There are several QBs right now that are going to become available over that time, and unlike the draft some of these QBs will have NFL film on them (be it preseason, or regular season) which is probably a better grade for how they'll do in the league than college tape. So if we (a) got rid of McCoy and brought in a younger body or (b) went with 3 QBs or (c) signed somebody to the PS, we could be developing the next Trent Green . 

 

Not sure Alex is here for 3-4 years.  If he keeps playing like this, I'd put that at 50-50.  Hopefully though he plays better and I think he will.  Will see.   But again all of this is to me rigid thinking as to what you lay out.

 

The cool thing about talking to Scot (and yeah he's not perfect) for 2 hours was he explained he's a talent based evaluator.  He doesn't like to force picks or stick to rules.  He was one of the guys who early on last year said Mayfield is the best QB in the draft, at the time it was an outlier position, right now he's looking to be right.  Conversely, he got ironically the Alex Smith-Aaron Rodgers thing wrong.   But still swing for the fences IF you really like a guy.  If you don't like a guy -- don't force it.

 

To me its not about being married to a theory and what happened in the past.  It's about what you think about a specific player.  If I am for example Kyle Smith and Jay Gruden walks into my door and says look i've been studying these guys and Will Grier is really special and explains it to me in detail.  And I can draft him without giving up the farm and he falls to your pick.  Pick the dude.   If you think these QBs are overrated and aren't in love with anyone and think you can develop one who has potential -- your favorite approach -- then do that.