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2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

DC9

By DC9
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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

And I'm not turning this into a Kirk vs Bruce debate, but that's what this is all about. He wasn't saying this 3 years ago before his best bud was throwing for 4000 yards and getting franchised. Do I agree with all of Bruce's moves? nope. Do I think he's trying to build a winning team? Yep. Do I agree with his overall philosophy? Yep. So I (and I think other fans) will defend the moves we agree with. We (DC fans) are not some blind homers who will just fall in line and do as our managers tell us.

 

 Grant kicked Bruce hard on the radio today.  So I think that likely precipitated that comment from Rouhier.  They both don't think much of Bruce as a person or think he's competent and that's not just about Kirk.    

 

Grant who arguably knows Kirk better than any reporter and has said he has spoken to Kirk multiple times off the record and he goes look Kirk is religious guy and he liked being a Redskins but didn't like playing under a guy with Bruce's personality/ethics.  That wasn't the first time Grant has said that.  And he's not the only guy who said Kirk not wanting to be here is primarily (not fully) centered on Bruce. 

 

But agree I don't want to derail this about Kirk.  I am tired of the subject.  As for the rest of your point, judging by this board and twitter -- I don't see this loud chorus of Bruce supporters.  It's still quite the opposite.  The only thing Bruce has cooking for him is growing hatred for Kirk on twitter.  That's tough to miss.  But for the most part its not accompanied with rosy feelings about Bruce.   Many are trashing Bruce along with Kirk.  It's an odd dance.

 

Not long ago 106.7 ran a poll about what people would like to see most for the Redskins going forward -- #1 desire was firing Bruce and it was #1 by a mile.  Cooley who is pals with Bruce even admitted that Bruce knows that he's seen as a villain with most of the fans.   So while Bruce has somewhat of a fan in you.  And I admit that's not an easy thing to do as for going against the grain.  I don't think you have a lot of company. 

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OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Its not about defending an owner or Bruce. Its more about defending a particular move after another move. I was very critical of Vinny because I hated almost all of his moves. With Bruce its the opposite. I was mostly mum on the Kirk debate because I thought it was more detailed than just pro-Kirk or anti-Kirk. I've been pretty good on our drafts (wanted Williams over Scherff and Sheldon and a trade down over both), Loved the Brown signing and the DJ signing, was meh on McGee and McClain (thought they would bring more run stopping than they did), etc. If they make a good move then I'll celebrate it. I know everyone wishes we were led by a Parcells and Bellicheat combination but we've got what we've got. And we can check out or we can discuss the moves they make and don't make. But I think the blind hatred (especially by Grant and Danny) is annoying to fans like me.

 

 

Right there with ya bud.... 

 

I've come to grips with the fact that no matter what I feel, say, do, whatever... I have no true influence on what happens in Ashburn.  This has forced me to try to look at every situation as itself.  I don't like Bruce Allen as a Redskins exec.  I don't like Dan Snyder and how he handles himself.  What I've come to understand is that they're where they are, and I am where I am.  Holding on to a terrible decision they've made does nothing but make me hate the decision even more.  It kills my tiny hope that we are going to be able to do something to be proud of.  I'm instead going to look at, analyze, and discuss each decision as its own... because the terrible decisions of the past are what they are.  They're bad, they've been bad, and a part of me understands they will probably continue to be bad.  I do like to give credit where it is due, and there have been some positive decisions made... 

 

I am also with you 100% about the blind hatred... I actually was listening to them today and it was frustrating.  I LOVE their show, on every subject NOT Kirk Cousins.  I understand they have a 'loyalty' to him but it's frustrating.  

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Thinking Skins

Thinking Skins

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But agree I don't want to derail this about Kirk.  I am tired of the subject.  As for the rest of your point, judging by this board and twitter -- I don't see this loud chorus of Bruce supporters.  It's still quite the opposite.  The only thing Bruce has cooking for him is growing hatred for Kirk on twitter.  That's tough to miss.  But for the most part its not accompanied with rosy feelings about Bruce.   Many are trashing Bruce along with Kirk.  It's an odd dance.

 

Not long ago 106.7 ran a poll about what people would like to see most for the Redskins going forward -- #1 desire was firing Bruce and it was #1 by a mile.  Cooley who is pals with Bruce even admitted that Bruce knows that he's seen as a villain with most of the fans.   So while Bruce has somewhat of a fan in you.  And I admit that's not an easy thing to do as for going against the grain.  I don't think you have a lot of company. 

 

Yeah that's more to my point than Grant's though. We support the team, not Bruce. Sometimes he makes good decisions and sometimes bad ones. There is Kirk backlash because the town is divided on whether we should keep him, and this board is a biased atmosphere to measure fan interest. Talking at the lunch table with my Skins friends and friends of other teams we would get stuff like "Kirk isn't worth that money, but you know the Redskins will pay it because they're stupid", "we finally found out QB but they won't pay him", "why did they get rid of RG3 he was a beast but that line was ragges", "I hope yal sign Kirk because he's not taking you all anywhere but to your couches in January", etc. Given, my friend base isn't the most broad but there are a lot of these conversations being had outside of this message board that are more diverse than what we see here, where the same argument will go on for years and years with no resolution.

 

And to the point, I don't argue in favor of Bruce, but I'll go to bat for the decisions I agree with. If he's fired I'll hope the next guy has a similar philosophy. I like moves. I don't know him as a man and I will not call him a good man or anything like that. If Cousins or Grant don't like him as a man that's on them. But his philosophy is one that I agree with. Many fans here are similar to Dan in 2000 though and want to sign the next Deion Sanders without thinking about developing talent and building a team and this is a conversation we have a lot in cafeterias and lunch lines.

 

I'd agree that I may be alone in HOW MUCH I agree with Bruce, but I don't think I'm the only fan who ever agrees with Bruce, and agreeing with Bruce on a move doesn't mean we're giving the team "the benefit of the doubt"

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CTskin

CTskin

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

Would we get a 2nd round in this year's draft?  If yes, I hope he gets signed by another team and we get the 2nd. 

I'm pretty sure we put the same round on him last year and he went un-signed. I almost feel bad for the guy... He's getting up there in age and had a difficult road to the NFL; he deserves a multi-year deal.

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Rufus T Firefly

Rufus T Firefly

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, CTskin said:

I'm pretty sure we put the same round on him last year and he went un-signed. I almost feel bad for the guy... He's getting up there in age and had a difficult road to the NFL; he deserves a multi-year deal.

He wasn't a Restricted Free Agent last year. No one besides us could have signed him.

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BatteredFanSyndrome

BatteredFanSyndrome

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

I'd agree that I may be alone in HOW MUCH I agree with Bruce, but I don't think I'm the only fan who ever agrees with Bruce, and agreeing with Bruce on a move doesn't mean we're giving the team "the benefit of the doubt"

It’s about the sum of its parts.  Not every move Bruce or any GM for that matter is a bad one.  Not every pass Colt McCoy threw was a duck either, but that doesn’t mean he’s good enough to be a starter in the league.  At the end of the day it boils down to how it all comes together.  To this point, the results are bad.  A few years middling is nothing to write home about.  Particularly when much of the roster put together to middle was the by product of the risky guy he hired and then fired in under 2 years.  

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wilco_holland

wilco_holland

Posted
Posted

It's hard for me to be a fan of Bruce.

 

Because I can't connect to him. With Scot Mc I felt more connected because he showed more of his personality. You felt the guys passion for a certain style of football. I liked that. And I saw a strategy that comes close to my own views of football. 

 

Bruce is just a good accountant and politics guys. Signs "cheap" deals and don't show a lot of emotions or say anything crazy. 

 

I applaud that Doug Williams gets pushed more forward. He shows more of himself and is honest. 

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Jericho

Jericho

Posted
Posted

The Packers interest in Watkins/Robinson is interesting. Though when you break it down, it tends to make sense. Nelson is 32 and Cobb hasn't been that good for a few years. Both are in their last years of their deals. I could see the Packers making a play now, particularly since Robinson and Watkins are pretty good for free agent receivers. Usually players available at WR are neither this good or young. Could be a nice landing spot for one of them.

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Darth Tater

Darth Tater

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

It's hard for me to be a fan of Bruce.

 

Because I can't connect to him. With Scot Mc I felt more connected because he showed more of his personality. You felt the guys passion for a certain style of football. I liked that. And I saw a strategy that comes close to my own views of football. 

 

Bruce is just a good accountant and politics guys. Signs "cheap" deals and don't show a lot of emotions or say anything crazy. 

 

I applaud that Doug Williams gets pushed more forward. He shows more of himself and is honest. 

My dislike for Bruce comes from the fact that is father took one of the worst defenses in the NFL and turned it into one of the best and was also pretty entertaining at times.  Papa Allen's legacy includes our defenses in the 80s.  We haven't even seen a consistently solid defense since 2009 and I'd probably have to go all the way back to 1992 for the last entertaining defense.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Given, my friend base isn't the most broad but there are a lot of these conversations being had outside of this message board that are more diverse than what we see here, where the same argument will go on for years and years with no resolution.

 

My friend base as for diversity among fans I interact with is pretty large. I am in South Florida.  Almost everyone here are transplants.  My neighbor is a rabid Jets fan.  My in-laws Giants fans.  My step-father a rabid Dolphins fan.  Close friends -- Cowboy, Patriot, Eagle fans.  

 

On the weekends, I often wear Redskins gear and it elicits conversations with strangers often. It happens at my bank, when I am picking up groceries, -- heck just about everywhere I get asked about it.  I actually rarely get to talk to Redskins fans, i am mostly talking to fans from other teams. 

 

For my experience, its mostly geez I can't believe you are losing Kirk.  And they mostly see the Redskins as a dysfunctional-inept organization.  I often have to explain why I am a Redskins fan considering.  That vibe went away for awhile when Shanny was here -- but the national dysfunctional narrative about the Redskins is going 1000 miles an hour again.  And yeah I feel it down here a lot.

 

That was my point weeks ago on a thread that I again have to apologize and explain why I'd root for the Redskins being a punch line and all.  And I thought we escaped punch line status but its back or at least its back in my quarters.

 

34 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

And to the point, I don't argue in favor of Bruce, but I'll go to bat for the decisions I agree with. 

 

I bat plenty for his decisions when I like them.  A football team has to make many decisions.  For me with Bruce he ALWAYS makes decisions every off season I like.  So did Vinny.  On the aggregate, IMO he typically makes more bad decisions than good ones.  And to me that's the bottom line for any organization.  Heck Vinny signed:  Fletcher, C. Griffin, Springs, M. Washington.  The trade for Moss was a good one.  Drafting Sean Taylor over the TE from the U was a really good decision, too.  There are always highlights.  And ditto with Bruce.

 

I think some put up a false premise on the Bruce debate.  It's often something like this:

 

A.  They argue that Bruce's critics claim he doesn't do anything right and he's always wrong

B.  So proving the things he has done right -- props up Bruce and shoots down his critics. 

 

I don't think anyone thinks that Bruce only makes bad moves. No one does everything wrong.   The Browns make plenty of good decisions.  So do the Redskins.  But to be a winner you have to get most of your decisions right.  If we are going to cherry pick the highlights and turn it into a greatest hits album just about any GM who had longevity including our own Vinny would look like a rock star.

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Skinsinparadise

Skinsinparadise

Posted
Posted

Tandler just on he said WR is top goal in FA.   They like Robinson but doubts they go in a bidding war for him.  So he thinks Richardson and maybe Gabriel.

 

I like Gabriel but at his size he doesn't strike me as a full time Z but instead an Aldrick Robinson style specialist.    But he does bring speed.  I talked about him plenty in the WR thread.  If they are going in that ilk i like Albert Wilson.  But both Wilson and Gabriel strike me more as slot guys. 

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carex

carex

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, wilco_holland said:

It's hard for me to be a fan of Bruce.

 

Because I can't connect to him. With Scot Mc I felt more connected because he showed more of his personality. You felt the guys passion for a certain style of football. I liked that. And I saw a strategy that comes close to my own views of football. 

 

Bruce is just a good accountant and politics guys. Signs "cheap" deals and don't show a lot of emotions or say anything crazy. 

 

I applaud that Doug Williams gets pushed more forward. He shows more of himself and is honest. 

 

you try to connect with  with the front office people? Why?

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RWJ

RWJ

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Tandler just on he said WR is top goal in FA.   They like Robinson but doubts they go in a bidding war for him.  So he thinks Richardson and maybe Gabriel.

 

I like Gabriel but at his size he doesn't strike me as a full time Z but instead an Aldrick Robinson style specialist.    But he does bring speed.  I talked about him plenty in the WR thread.  If they are going in that ilk i like Albert Wilson.  But both Wilson and Gabriel strike me more as slot guys. 

Well, at least WR is top goal which it should be for our new QB and Smith will need the help.  IMO, SIP I think they should focus their attention on Richardson.  If they waste too much time on Robinson they could lose Richardson and Richardson would cost less money.

17 minutes ago, TK said:

Brown could end up playing for the other Gruden.

Brotherly Love

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