Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[zoony]

Speaking of Kamara, i would take every UT player who played under that grade a dip**** butch jones.

 

John Kelly is entering the draft this year.  A lot of guys liked him better than kamara.  Nobody has heard of him because butch jones is a ****tard

 

But i digress, cousins is leaving.  I entered the offseason 60 dtay 40 leave, but now im 5 stay 95 leave

[kingdaddy]

2 hours ago, Tay said:

Are people seriously convincing themselves that the Browns situation is better than our situation?

 

The Browns could develop over time, but it's not going to happen overnight. That team is going to be extremely young. If Kirk is willing to wait 3 years before having the opportunity to compete again, then the Browns could be a solid landing spot.

 

Otherwise the Browns rumors are out there for leverage. Again, it's in Kirk's best interest to be interested in everything. If going to the NBA and getting a fully guaranteed contract was an option for him, I'm sure we'd hear a rumor about that as well.  

Do you remember last season's game vs. the Browns in Washington? Cleveland was putting the boots to us, controlling the clock and running the ball well. They actually led 20-17 after 3 qtrs. and had us beat til they started handing us turnovers in the 4th qtr. I remember preparing myself to lose to the lowly Browns. Well, fast forward to 2018 and if they have our QB and 5 high draft picks from the upcoming draft to add to whatever free agents they sign they may just blow past us. 

[The Slamming Butcher]

3 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

So now the Browns are a more attractive destination than Washington. 

 

Tells you everything you need to know about our front office. 

 

 

LOL @ Kirk "wants to win".

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

But even if I didn't see this financial flexibility, I really don't give a rats behind about building the team in FA.  I like FA in doses but I am not building my team that way.  The Saints jumped from a 7-9 team to a Superbowl thread this year largely by nailing their first and 2nd round picks.    And here we got scenarios being discussed that subtracts our draft capital to build a team by using it to draft a QB or trade for one.   That's what I hate more than anything. 

I know that you listen to 980,so you might have heard this.  I think it was a segment on Bram's show (I might be wrong) they were talking about how because of the cap increases, the whole "build through the draft" thing is becoming a little dated. I think there was a guest for this segment.  My memory is sketchy. 

 

They brought up that Denver bought a team, won the SB.  And quite frankly, if they had just done SLIGHTLY better at QB, they would be contending for another before they have to blow the whole thing up.  

 

Jax has been one of the biggest spenders in FA the last 2 years.  They hit on their FAs, and have one of the absolutely most dominant defenses in the league. And if Bortles wasn't a talent-less ass clown, they might be good enough to win the SB.  

 

2 years ago, the Giants bought a pretty good defense.  The team stunk this year, but a lot of that was the fact they lost every starting WR they had.  (Which, btw, brought their WRs corps down to about the talent level of ours)  

 

I'm not suggesting that you toss the draft away as unnecessary, but I think it's important to note that teams who are smart in FA, and willing to spend on the right things can do much more to improve themselves in FA now than they ever have been able to.

 

The Browns have $115 million of cap space available.  They could, in theory, have 15 new starters on opening day, plus they have 4 or 5 picks in the first 32.  

 

The times are changing a little bit.  The draft is still very important, but with the rate the cap is increasing, FOR NOW FA is a much more viable method to build teams than it has been in the past.  This is a bubble that will burst, but you need to take advantage of it while you can.  In my opinion.  

[Tay]

3 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

So now the Browns are a more attractive destination than Washington. 

 

Tells you everything you need to know about our front office. 

 

 

Breer's full quote was, "my feeling is that he would seriously consider the Browns." This isn't even a rumor and it's gained a ton of traction. 

[skinny21]

It's easy to get carried away identifying holes and weaknesses on this roster.  You could argue we need a good OLB to backup Smith/Kerrigan, we need a starting caliber corner to at least compete with Dunbar, We don't have depth for Allen and Ioannidas, we need two new DEs (McGee might be ok, but Lanier can't stop the run and we need rotational guys.  We need a starting ILB, 2 if Brown walks.  At least 2 new, starting receivers.  It goes on and on.  

 

The one thing I keep bringing up is need vs want.  Consider that we were competitive this year in most games, including against some talented teams.  So if we don't answer some of those questions, but say we find a capable NT and an upgrade at running back in the draft (and stay healthier)... might we still be better next year, perhaps even significantly so?  I think that's likely a yes.  We'd still have concerns, but I think we need to recognize that, although we should always strive for it, we'll never have a complete team.  We'll never be in a position of having starting level depth across the board.  I also don't think paying Kirk a bunch of money means we will inherently struggle to improve the roster.  

 

What I'm looking for this offseason is to resign some key guys, find a few guys in the draft that can help our run game and help stopping the run, and adding a decent receiving weapon.  I think that's very doable, particularly given the running back talent in the draft, and the fact we should be able to land a talented defender in the 1st round.  That's not factoring in any improvement we see in guys currently on the roster, or any UDFA guys that make the squad.  We've been getting steadily younger as a team, and that has lead to some inconsistencies, but it also means that should continue to get better as these youngsters progress.  

 

I get the arguments against signing Kirk.  I really do.  I also think this is the best shot we have.  Not because Kirk is some Wunderkin, but he's the best we've had in ages.  So, instead of - I don't think we can build a complete enough team around a pricey QB, how about we try?  Worst case, we either continue the mediocrity (and look competitive while doing so), or sink back to our usual ineptitude.  

 

I'll add that if we swing re-signing Kirk, there's a decent chance that he won't be paid a top 5 salary in 2-3 years, but is playing around the level of a top 5 qb (as Brees, Brady and Roethlisberger retire).  

 

 

[The Slamming Butcher]

18 minutes ago, Tay said:

Breer's full quote was, "my feeling is that he would seriously consider the Browns." This isn't even a rumor and it's gained a ton of traction. 

 

This won't stop the Chicken Little reaction. 

[bobandweave]

The Browns offered the Patriots the 4th overall pick in the upcoming draft for Jimmy G. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patriots-reportedly-couldve-gotten-no-4-pick-in-2018-nfl-draft-for-jimmy-garoppolo/

 

So my question is if there is a way to trade Kirk to the Browns and if so what price would the Browns give for him? 

 

On one hand you have a guy who really hadn't done much in the league but was full of promise but negative was how other Patriot QBs had done in the past. On the other hand you have a guy who is a pro bowler. Which would be more desirable?

 

 

[Warhead36]

3 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

The Browns offered the Patriots the 4th overall pick in the upcoming draft for Jimmy G. 

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/patriots-reportedly-couldve-gotten-no-4-pick-in-2018-nfl-draft-for-jimmy-garoppolo/

 

So my question is if there is a way to trade Kirk to the Browns and if so what price would the Browns give for him? 

 

One one hand you have a guy who really hadn't done much in the league but was full of promise. On the other hand you have a guy who is a pro bowler. Which would be more desirable?

 

 

We can't trade him because there is no way we'd franchise him again.

[Tay]

40 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Do you remember last season's game vs. the Browns in Washington? Cleveland was putting the boots to us, controlling the clock and running the ball well. They actually led 20-17 after 3 qtrs. and had us beat til they started handing us turnovers in the 4th qtr. I remember preparing myself to lose to the lowly Browns. Well, fast forward to 2018 and if they have our QB and 5 high draft picks from the upcoming draft to add to whatever free agents they sign they may just blow past us. 

Yes. The Browns have 5 picks in the first 2 rounds and 6 in the top 100. That's not much different from 2017 and 2016. They are 1-32 in the past 2 years (where they've had plenty of close games)! Each of those draft picks are question marks.

 

Could they improve over time? Definitely. But I would not swap positions with them. Even if you removed Kirk from our roster.

[Warhead36]

The only difference between us and the Browns is Cousins. Without him we're probably around 2 or 3 wins ourselves this year, not that much better than 0-for.

 

I'd kill for all those draft picks and cap room...

[Tay]

2 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We can't trade him because there is no way we'd franchise him again.

We could trade him even if we only applied the Transition tag, but that's not likely the case with Cleveland. They could structure a deal in a manner that we cant match.

[Skinsinparadise]

35 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I know that you listen to 980,so you might have heard this.  I think it was a segment on Bram's show (I might be wrong) they were talking about how because of the cap increases, the whole "build through the draft" thing is becoming a little dated. I think there was a guest for this segment.  My memory is sketchy. 

 

They brought up that Denver bought a team, won the SB.  And quite frankly, if they had just done SLIGHTLY better at QB, they would be contending for another before they have to blow the whole thing up.  

 

 

Yeah they were talking about an article that I actually posted on the free agency thread.  The thesis of the article is FA spending is less risky than in the past because the cap keeps soaring.  So you can go nuts and the repercussions aren't the same.   And bad teams can build FA capital via rollover dollars and then go nuts with spending when the time is right.  The thesis though of the article wasn't FA > draft.    Joel Corry, ex-agent, said it well recently its very tough to build your team via FA, Jacksonville notwithstanding.  I like FA though to complement the draft.   One of the cases the article talked about was Calais Campbell.  I was nuts pushing them to sign Campbell last off season versus the collection of D lineman they signed.  

 

If anything that article supports the idea of signing Kirk.  I think its no coincidence that Mike McCartney actually "liked" that article on twitter.  Since the article's point is that its never been easier to keep your own guys where you have to worry about being screwed by the cap considering the cap keeps going up.  And today's high price is tomorrow's bargain.

 

https://www.theringer.com/2018/1/9/16867564/playoffs-salary-cap-free-agent-spending-jaguars-eagles-patriots

 

...The quickest way to win in the NFL is to have a good quarterback—and that’ll always be the case, unless there’s a drastic change made to the rules of the sport.

 

...“I can distinctly remember the days when it was almost every year, you had to let people go because of money,” Los Angeles Rams general manager Les Snead said. “Nowadays, I don’t ever remember thinking, ‘Uh-oh, we’re up against the books here.’ Now, it’s more of a strategy.

 

...It may sound simplistic, but the cap is rising at such a rate, and the carryover money is so great, that most teams can do anything they want within reason to their roster. “Any team who was bad with their salary cap in the past now has a get-out-of-jail-free card,” said Jason Fitzgerald, who runs Over the Cap, a salary cap website, and has consulted for NFL teams. 

 

...Banner points out that Roseman is smart enough to use his cap space to sign his current players to deals that work for both sides—maybe they seem like slight overpays now, but they will be a bargain compared to what would happen if they hit the open market and teams with $100 million to spend got to bid. Banner mentioned Fletcher Cox ($63 million guaranteed), Lane Johnson ($35 million guaranteed), and Zach Ertz ($21 million guaranteed) all as contracts that seem plenty substantial but are really team-friendly when compared to what those players are worth. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

18 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

I get the arguments against signing Kirk.  I really do.  I also think this is the best shot we have.  Not because Kirk is some Wunderkin, but he's the best we've had in ages.  So, instead of - I don't think we can build a complete enough team around a pricey QB, how about we try?  

This is my thoughts in a nutshell.

 

Why waste the investment we've already made in Kirk to try and do it any other way?  Why stop the continuity we have to try and do it another way?

 

If it doesn't work out - so be it, nothing else we've done in Dan's ownership has.

 

 

 

 

[bobandweave]

6 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

We can't trade him because there is no way we'd franchise him again.

 

Ignoring the "no way" comment if what you are saying is that we technically could franchise him again and if we did could we then ship him to Cleveland for picks?

 

If so whats to stop the Skins from Franchising first day they can, next day shipping him to another team for picks, and if this was done wouldn't the money owed for the franchise tag come off our books and go to theirs?

 

The only issue with franchise tagging him this year is the cost to do it but can't that be on the books and then off the books rather quickly in a trade? 

 

If so then why not make a deal with Cleveland, get a couple good picks for him and use one of them for a new QB

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

19 minutes ago, The Slamming Butcher said:

 

This won't stop the Chicken Little reaction. 

...or the nimrod reactions.

 

Making fun of him for saying he wants to win but would consider Cleveland, labeled as greedy for wanting to go to Cleveland, etc.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

Just now, bobandweave said:

 

Ignoring the "no way" comment if what you are saying is that we technically could franchise him again and if we did could we then ship him to Cleveland for picks?

 

If so whats to stop the Skins from Franchising first day they can, next day shipping him to another team for picks, and if this was done wouldn't the money owed for the franchise tag come off our books and go to theirs? The only issue with franchise tagging him this year is the cost to do it but can't that be on the books and then off the books rather quickly in a trade? 

 

I think the only realistic way the Redskins could trade Cousins is if they discussed it with him ahead of time to understand which teams he'd be interested in signing with long-term. Then, they would need to discuss with those teams that they intend to franchise him only to trade him and only if that team could hammer out a long-term deal with Cousins. Then, they'd need to franchise him (with both parties understanding it was just a means to an end) .

[LetThePointsSoar]

3 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

The only difference between us and the Browns is Cousins. Without him we're probably around 2 or 3 wins ourselves this year, not that much better than 0-for.

 

I'd kill for all those draft picks and cap room...

 

Come on, Warhead,  you can't truly believe that.  We're talking about a team that's won 7-9 games the last three seasons vs a team that hasn't won a single game in almost two years. The divide is far greater than KC, we have far more talent than you're giving us credit. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

If so whats to stop the Skins from Franchising first day they can, next day shipping him to another team for picks, and if this was done wouldn't the money owed for the franchise tag come off our books and go to theirs? The only issue with franchise tagging him this year is the cost to do it but can't that be on the books and then off the books rather quickly in a trade? 

Why would a team trade for a him unless he's complicit?  He has to want to go wherever it is we would trade him, because all he has to threaten to do is play out his year and move on to free agency.  Nobody is going to trade for that.  He still has all the cards.

[Tay]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

...or the nimrod reactions.

 

Making fun of him for saying he wants to win but would consider Cleveland, labeled as greedy for wanting to go to Cleveland, etc.

Yes! There is a ridiculous amount of overreaction to Breer's thought.

 

I'm actually stunned that there is debate to weather the situation in Cleveland is better than DC for any veteran QB.

[Cliffmark1]

4 minutes ago, LetThePointsSoar said:

 

Come on, Warhead,  you can't truly believe that.  We're talking about a team that's won 7-9 games the last three seasons vs a team that hasn't won a single game in almost two years. The divide is far greater than KC, we have far more talent than you're giving us credit. 

Unfortunately I too believe we are closer to the bottom of the NFL without KC than many believe, and considering the Browns new FO, Picks, and Cap Space it is possible even probable that with Kirk they would win more games than we would without Kirk.  

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Why would a team trade for a him unless he's complicit?  He has to want to go wherever it is we would trade him, because all he has to threaten to do is play out his year and move on to free agency.  Nobody is going to trade for that.  He still has all the cards.

 

Yeah the team that got him would have to then negotiate a LTD with him. Otherwise, he'd just play on the one year contract, which we know Kirk doesn't mind doing. Then he'd either hit FA or that new team would have to franchise him again, which would be a pretty astronomical amount in 2019 I'd guess. I don't see it happening. Unfortunately most of our ships have sailed as far as getting anything for Kirk if he leaves. Only thing we can really do is transition tag and then see what offers he gets and then see if we want to match them. Though that also comes with the very real possibility that he'd just sign the transition tag contract and then decide to play out the year without looking for other offers then go to regular FA next year.

[rick7423]

4 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah the team that got him would have to then negotiate a LTD with him. Otherwise, he'd just play on the one year contract, which we know Kirk doesn't mind doing. Then he'd either hit FA or that new team would have to franchise him again, which would be a pretty astronomical amount in 2019 I'd guess. I don't see it happening. Unfortunately most of our ships have sailed as far as getting anything for Kirk if he leaves. Only thing we can really do is transition tag and then see what offers he gets and then see if we want to match them. Though that also comes with the very real possibility that he'd just sign the transition tag contract and then decide to play out the year without looking for other offers then go to regular FA next year.

 

This will most likely NOT happen. Neither the Skins nor KC want to go through that again. it just creates way to much bad blood, press, and fan reaction to deal with.

 

They found this out the hard way. The only one that won was KC, and god bless him for playing the cards exactly right! He has created his brand with exceptional skill and clarity, and proved his worth on the field. My Skins failed, continue to fail, and will be the worst team in the NFL next year.

 

So, 1 more year on my season ticket contract, then I am done.

 

And... why wouldn't KC entertain the Browns option? Lot's of cap space, new management, lot's of 1st round picks, ability to build team around HIM! Going 2-32 in the past 2 years, there is almost no downside. Hell, just win 4 games and you have already beaten every other QB in the past 2 friggin years! This could work out so well for him and put him into an area that has needed a long term successful QB for more years than the Skins.

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

eah they were talking about an article that I actually posted on the free agency thread.  The thesis of the article is FA spending is less risky than in the past because the cap keeps soaring.  So you can go nuts and the repercussions aren't the same.   And bad teams can build FA capital via rollover dollars and then go nuts with spending when the time is right.  The thesis though of the article wasn't FA > draft.    Joel Corry, ex-agent, said it well recently its very tough to build your team via FA, Jacksonville notwithstanding.  I like FA though to complement the draft.   One of the cases the article talked about was Calais Campbell.  I was nuts pushing them to sign Campbell last off season versus the collection of D lineman they signed.  

 

If anything that article supports the idea of signing Kirk.  I think its no coincidence that Mike McCartney actually "liked" that article on twitter.  Since the article's point is that its never been easier to keep your own guys where you have to worry about being screwed by the cap considering the cap keeps going up.  And today's high price is tomorrow's bargain.

I agree, and I want them to sign Kirk anyway.  

 

But I also think they should get aggressive and spend the money they can to upgrade the roster. AND clearly they need to draft well.  

 

FWIW, if they let Kirk walk, I'm actually in favor of just blowing the whole thing up.  Going to a complete minimum of salary, trading away all picks, and doing what the Browns did. Clearly there are a few pieces that you want to take care of (J. Allen, Trent, Sherff, a few others), but I've really come to the conclusion that there's no point to going 8-8, 7-9 or 9-7.  If you're going to miss the playoffs, then you might as well stink it up, save money and get better (and more) draft picks.  So that you can honest-to-God make an effort to build a championship team.  Midling around doesn't help anybody.

 

Also, clearly, you have to have a FO that's capable of doing that.  We don't.  Because Bruce is a dummy.  

[mistertim]

Wait, how is there no downside to going to a team that has been 1-31 over the last two years? He said basically said he wants to be with a winning team right? The Browns are the antithesis of a winning team. He'd be gambling that a team that has been dreadful as long as anyone can remember and EXTRA dreadful the last couple of seasons will be able to hit on a bunch of draft picks (which they've failed to do in years past) and suddenly catapult into a winning organization. Yes, the Browns do have some decent talent on their team, but they have had decent talent on their team in years past and they've still sucked.