Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[purbeast]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

That's true in theory (though I really doubt there will be that many teams in a bidding war for him) but with the number we're talking about I think many teams would drop out really quick. If Kirk goes out and says "I want $80 million fully guaranteed over the first 3 years" most teams would likely just say "lol, later", while some may try to negotiate it down but I see pretty much no way he gets anywhere near that in an offer. He's a good QB but he's not elite and he still has some question marks with his game, and you better bet that if he's asking for that sort of money teams will be focusing on his tape and potential deficiencies like a laser. And again, it's unknown how he'll do with another team in a different system so that fully guaranteed money would be an enormous risk to take in the event that he flops. A QB like Peyton hitting the FA market was pretty much a once in a generation sort of thing to happen. The Bears probably kicked themselves for years for giving up 2 1st round picks and a huge contract for Cutler and getting nothing but consistent mediocre seasons. The Saints took a chance with an injured Brees and got lucky and it paid off.

Can you please point out just 1 person that has claimed Cousins is elite?  I've been on these boards for years and can't recall anyone ever claiming he is elite, so I'm curious to see why you are even bringing that up.

[mistertim]

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Perhaps some of you haven't caught on, but under no circumstances will mistertim budge one iota on Kirk Cousins skills, earning power, personality, etc.  I'm not sure there is anyone here more heavily invested in the detriment of Kirk Cousins.  This is nothing new and there is plenty of history there to support exactly what I'm saying.  Goal post mover extraordinaire.

 

Do yourselves a favor, disengage and stop banging your head against the wall.  You can thank me later. 

 

So because I won't agree with you that Kirk is an elite QB who should be get upwards of an $80 million guarantee over 3 years when nobody else in the NFL even got close to that it means I'm invested in the detriment of Kirk Cousins? I've been pretty consistent in what I think of him and what I think his deficiencies are.

[ThomasRoane]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As to the let Kirk go crowd among the the ones who explain we can't afford him and talk up the bounty of signings we will make when he's gone, etc.  To me, the only option that plays fully into that argument is Colt's the guy.  Otherwise, in FA you are unlikely to gain a big bounty of money.  And the other options make it harder not easier to build the rest of your roster via the draft.

 

Another issue for the FA market is how many players will want to come to Washington with fragile, weak armed Colt or some journeyman at QB?  The only FA's you will get will be the mercenaries who want to get paid.  Guys that will have a lot of soft tissue injuries until their contract is up for renewal.  We've been down that road before. 

[mistertim]

33 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

He's better than that version of Peyton.

 

Wait, what? For 3 years there Peyton was dominant. He had seasons of 37, 55, and 39 TDs. And you think Kirk is better than that? Cmon, man.

6 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Can you please point out just 1 person that has claimed Cousins is elite?  I've been on these boards for years and can't recall anyone ever claiming he is elite, so I'm curious to see why you are even bringing that up.

 

I wasn't saying that in a way that meant others here have said he is elite. I'm saying that to mean that he wants elite money and I don't see a team willing to pay a good but not game changing/elite QB upwards of $80 million in fully guaranteed money which is $20 million more than the most recent blockbuster QB deal.

[purbeast]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I wasn't saying that in a way that meant others here have said he is elite. I'm saying that to mean that he wants elite money and I don't see a team willing to pay a good but not game changing/elite QB upwards of $80 million in fully guaranteed money which is $20 million more than the most recent blockbuster QB deal.

What elite quarterback got pay day similar to the $80 million fully guaranteed?  And keep in mind, that number is 100% speculation.

 

And then by association, you're saying Stafford and Carr are elite?

7 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Another issue for the FA market is how many players will want to come to Washington with fragile, weak armed Colt or some journeyman at QB?  The only FA's you will get will be the mercenaries who want to get paid.  Guys that will have a lot of soft tissue injuries until their contract is up for renewal.  We've been down that road before. 

Not just come here, but also stay here.  I wouldn't want to stay on a perennial loser if I was an NFL player.  I'd want to leave after my rookie contract was up, or my FA contract was up.  

[ThomasRoane]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

So because I won't agree with you that Kirk is an elite QB who should be get upwards of an $80 million guarantee over 3 years when nobody else in the NFL even got close to that it means I'm invested in the detriment of Kirk Cousins? I've been pretty consistent in what I think of him and what I think his deficiencies are.

 

Pro Kirk folks have been consistent in that we have not called Kirk elite but we recognize that a top tiered (even 10 - 15 in rank) QB has a market value and there is no sense crying about it.  Paying market value for a QB that can set protections, maneuver in the pocket, stay healthy, read defenses, get thru progressions, in the prime of his playing years, and make every kind of throw is simply the cost of doing business.  If RG III could do all those things he'd be getting paid too.  That's just the way of the NFL.  One way or another the team will have to pay someone dearly to play QB.  I don't have the confidence in the FO to build a top 5 defense and a top 10 running game which is what an average QB would need to win a Super Bowl. 

 

Now, if you have a complaint it should not be with Kirk.  It should be with your FO for grossly underestimating how Kirk would perform and for not providing the team (whether thru FA or good drafting) a comparable/sufficient replacement.  They foolishly surrendered all their leverage.  They bet on black and the wheel came up red.  Time to settle up, spin again (at a much higher cost), or start forfeiting assets (lost draft capital in a trade for Kirk.)

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, purbeast said:

What elite quarterback got pay day similar to the $80 million fully guaranteed?  And keep in mind, that number is 100% speculation.

 

And then by association, you're saying Stafford and Carr are elite?

 

I think they're very good. I wouldn't say Stafford is elite, and I think the Lions overpayed him and it will hurt them in acquiring the talent around him to make a championship caliber team. Carr is still a question mark but he has shown the potential, he's only 25 though.

 

And no QB got a pay day similar to that. I have doubts that even Aaron Rodgers would if he were in negotiations on a new contract right now. That's why I'm saying I think it's ludicrous to think teams will be lining up to give Kirk that kind of insane record breaking number.

[ThomasRoane]

6 minutes ago, mistertim said:

And no QB got a pay day similar to that. I have doubts that even Aaron Rodgers would if he were in negotiations on a new contract right now. That's why I'm saying I think it's ludicrous to think teams will be lining up to give Kirk that kind of insane record breaking number.

 

It all depends on how much a Super Bowl is worth to you.  Do you think that teams like the Jets (48 years), Bills,  and Jags wouldn't pay $80M to get at least one Super Bowl?  Winning a SB is what it's all about.  Otherwise, what's the point?  Do you want to be the Jeff Fisher Rams?  Who stockpiled draft picks but never even won the division?  Not until they got some good QB play (thanks also to Sean).  No one wins a damn thing for having a well managed Cap.  Not that the team should go back to its old ways but there are certain positions that are too important to try and get by with an average Joe.  And QB is the most important.  The Redskins have an Above Average Joe and locking him up would allow them to focus the draft and FA on the missing pieces.  With a new QB you're pushing the reset button. 

[purbeast]

12 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think they're very good. I wouldn't say Stafford is elite, and I think the Lions overpayed him and it will hurt them in acquiring the talent around him to make a championship caliber team. Carr is still a question mark but he has shown the potential, he's only 25 though.

 

And no QB got a pay day similar to that. I have doubts that even Aaron Rodgers would if he were in negotiations on a new contract right now. That's why I'm saying I think it's ludicrous to think teams will be lining up to give Kirk that kind of insane record breaking number.

So basically you're making up what you personally think an elite QB should be paid.  That's not how the market works. 

 

I like the comparison that Grant has made on his show multiple times.

 

There's a house that you like in a very nice neighborhood.  It costs $500k.  But you think it's only worth $300k because a few years ago it was sold for $300k.  But now the market dictates $500k but you still don't think it's worth $500k because it was cheaper than that years ago.  But it doesn't matter what you think it's worth, it's dictated by the current market.  So then you go on your merry way without your new home claiming that it's overpriced but in reality, it's not.  It's just going for what the market dictates.

[mistertim]

12 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

It all depends on how much a Super Bowl is worth to you.  Do you think that teams like the Jets (48 years), Bills,  and Jags wouldn't pay $80M to get at least one Super Bowl?  Winning a SB is what it's all about.  Otherwise, what's the point?  Do you want to be the Jeff Fisher Rams?  Who stockpiled draft picks but never even won the division?  Not until they got some good QB play (thanks also to Sean).  No one wins a damn thing for having a well managed Cap.  Not that the team should go back to its old ways but there are certain positions that are too important to try and get by with an average Joe.  And QB is the most important.  The Redskins have an Above Average Joe and locking him up would allow them to focus the draft and FA on the missing pieces.  With a new QB you're pushing the reset button. 

 

Then it all just depends on whether teams truly think Kirk is a guy that can lead them to a SB win.

 

8 minutes ago, purbeast said:

So basically you're making up what you personally think an elite QB should be paid.  That's not how the market works. 

 

I like the comparison that Grant has made on his show multiple times.

 

There's a house that you like in a very nice neighborhood.  It costs $500k.  But you think it's only worth $300k because a few years ago it was sold for $300k.  But now the market dictates $500k but you still don't think it's worth $500k because it was cheaper than that years ago.  But it doesn't matter what you think it's worth, it's dictated by the current market.  

 

More like you see a house being sold for 600K but a somewhat larger house was just sold down the street about a month ago for 400K.

 

 

But hey, maybe you're both right and I'm wrong. Maybe some team will offer Kirk something crazy. If so, more power to him and I'd be happy for him. I think we can all be pretty sure it won't be the Skins.

[PF Chang]

59 minutes ago, mistertim said:

And no QB got a pay day similar to that. I have doubts that even Aaron Rodgers would if he were in negotiations on a new contract right now. That's why I'm saying I think it's ludicrous to think teams will be lining up to give Kirk that kind of insane record breaking number.

 

AARON RODGERS wouldn't get $80M over 3 years? He is the best player in the league. Without him, the Packers are mediocre to bad. With him they are a threat to win the Super Bowl every year. If we had a chance to sign Aaron Rodgers for $26M a year while giving up no draft picks, you wouldn't want that? 

 

$26M is less than the cap hit for Norman plus Kerrigan next year. We're a better team with Norman+Kerrigan instead of Aaron Rodgers? 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Part of the problem is defining what actually counts as "guaranteed". With Stafford, while his guaranteed money is listed as 92 mil, the actual guarantee at signing was 60.5.

 

However, to only pay the 60.5, they would have to release him at the beginning of this upcoming league year, actually before the extension had even kicked in. They would have to then deal with a 49.5 mil dead cap hit this year. When they don't do that, his guarantee kicks up to 86 mil.

 

To keep it at 86, they would have to cut him at the beginning of the 2019 league year, and deal with a 49 mil dead cap hit. Otherwise, the guarantee goes to the aforementioned 92 mil.

 

So, with Cousins, are we talking guarantees, or, you know, guarantees? And are we comparing those amounts to other QBs virtual guarantees or their actual guarantees or their real guarantees?

 

p.s. Guarantee is a stupid word if you say it a bunch of times. Or hear it in your head a lot in a short period of time.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

So because I won't agree with you that Kirk is an elite QB who should be get upwards of an $80 million guarantee over 3 years when nobody else in the NFL even got close to that it means I'm invested in the detriment of Kirk Cousins? I've been pretty consistent in what I think of him and what I think his deficiencies are.

Actually, it has nothing at all to do with that.  I personally didn't even say he was worth 80M in guarantees.  It's about your track record.  I'd venture a guess that 95% of your Redskins related posting since Kirk became starter is about what Kirk can't do, negative things he does, what he's not worth, etc.  I'll just say it's the polar opposite of what you used to do about you know who.  

 

It's fine, it's your thing.  Just own it.  I simply just wouldn't bother to go down the road of debating Kirk with you because there is nothing that's going to sway you in the least.

[mistertim]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Actually, it has nothing at all to do with that.  I personally didn't even say he was worth 80M in guarantees.  It's about your track record.  I'd venture a guess that 95% of your Redskins related posting since Kirk became starter is about what Kirk can't do, negative things he does, what he's not worth, etc.  I'll just say it's the polar opposite treatment of what you used to do about you know who.

 

What does Voldemort have to do with this?

[Cooleyfan1993]

Rumor is that Kirk would “seriously consider playing for the Browns if the opppertunity presented itself”...i say we fleece the Browns like they fleeced us  I’m thinking their 1st and 4th pick in the first round and their first round pick over the next 3 seasons? The top QB in the draft and the top RB in the draft don’t sound too bad  

[Rufus T Firefly]

5 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Rumor is that Kirk would “seriously consider playing for the Browns if the opppertunity presented itself”...i say we fleece the Browns like they fleeced us  I’m thinking their 1st and 4th pick in the first round and their first round pick over the next 3 seasons? The top QB in the draft and the top RB in the draft don’t sound too bad  

Sure, and maybe they will trade us all the rest of their picks for Keith Marshall.

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Sure, and maybe they will trade us all the rest of their picks for Keith Marshall.

Well let’s not go overboard here  

 

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

2 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Well let’s not go overboard here  

 

 

Oh, I believe you went overboard, underwater and on into the Earth's mantle already.

[purbeast]

37 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Rumor is that Kirk would “seriously consider playing for the Browns if the opppertunity presented itself”...i say we fleece the Browns like they fleeced us  I’m thinking their 1st and 4th pick in the first round and their first round pick over the next 3 seasons? The top QB in the draft and the top RB in the draft don’t sound too bad  

Where did this rumor come from? I highly doubt that considering he's been keen on how he wants to go somewhere he can win.

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

What does Voldemort have to do with this?

WE DO NOT SAY HOS NAME!!!

 

(And as s reminder, on this board, I dubbed a receiver who’s nickname was a hair styling device “He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named”)

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

7 minutes ago, purbeast said:

Where did this rumor come from? I highly doubt that considering he's been keen on how he wants to go somewhere he can win.

Albert Breer dropped it today.

 

They actually have a good o line, run the ball better than we do, a bunch of money and picks, and a completely retooled FO built the right way.

 

 

[RonBurgandy]

Pretty ironic if Cousins were to end up in Cleveland. He literally would be following in RG3's path. Almost fitting.

 

With that said, and the rumor is true, this shows the truth about Cousins and why I always thought he was a weasel. He's willing to sacrifice any shot at a superbowl for money. If he thinks the Redskins FO is a mess, let him go to Cleveland. He claims himself as a man of god but succumbs to one of the deadliest sins, greed. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tay]

I don't know the source of the rumor, but it's in Kirk's best interest to show interest in the Browns/Jets if he wants to avoid the transition tag. Those are the only teams that can give him a deal we can't match and leave us with nothing (not even a 3rd rounder).

[mistertim]

I'm sure Kirk can turn them from a 0 win team back into a perennial 4 win team.

[Cooleyfan1993]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Oh, I believe you went overboard, underwater and on into the Earth's mantle already.

There’s going overboard and then there’s wishful thinking. What i did was just that—wishful thinking   yes i realize we likely won’t get any draft picks from the browns for Kirk, but it’s not crazy to HOPE it happens