Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Rocky52Mc]

The Redskins were the 4th most injured team in the NFL this season, lacked any sort of running game ranking 28th in total yards - 30th in average rush. A complete travesty in terms of running back quality on the roster, a year long decimation of the offensive lines health. A loss of defensive leaders on a consistent basis throughout the season. Took (2) 1 score losses to tough conference teams in the Saints and Minnesota, had an opportunity to take out Philadelphia in week 1 despite an incorrectly called late-drive-fumble. The Redskins had the most injury impacted offensive line in the game of football in 2017; Kirk went from being the 25th least sacked quarterback of 2016 (sacked only once more than RG3 who played 320 less snaps on the Browns) to being the 4th most sacked QB in the NFL in 2017. 2015? He was the 21st least sacked QB. There is a direct link to the production of any offensive unit and its ability to pass protect and run the ball. The Redskins have even had a completely sub par LG and C for all of recent memory. 

 

I'm ignoring the never-forgotten hard hats of this NFL fan base, plagued with the cancerous treachery of Snyder's past, the  fear based model of Allen's reign, etc. 

 

Give me Kirk, and give me him long-term. Draft a starling Center and pick-up a hog at LG. Get some fresh legs to run the rock and continue to build youth along the defense, call me in 6 years.

 

Pro-Tip: Jay Gruden wouldn't be our coach in 2018 if Kirk isn't on this roster. Peace and love.

[onedrop]

3 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said:

call me in 6 years.

problem is, someone, with confidence, said the same exact thing 5 years ago.....just one more piece to the puzzle.....if we could just solve for X.......only need one more draft.....

 

it is always the same and ever will be. we will never, NEVER, be good again. unless ownership changes or snyder gets another hobby and merely owns.

 

if i were Cousins id take less to play just about anywhere else. the organization has already stolen/wasted the careers of enough players.

[Est.1974]

I don't think there's any doubt that Gruden wants Kirk back. He also said in that interview that "we're still trying to work things out" in respect of Kirk. 

 

I do suspect though that even Gruden is now pucking up at the potential price tag. He knows we can't go all in at QB without further means to improve the roster adequately. Just my gut feeling.

 

 

[MartinC]

33 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

You're assuming the FO want to keep him. If they are not convinced, we're moving on. I think we'll know soon.

 

Even if they are not convinced it would be wise for them to keep the option open while they look around at alternatives in the free agency and draft. Makes no sense for either side to burn bridges at this stage.

42 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I would understand that more if he had not been so effusive in his praise up to this point. He could have steered away from saying what he did. It just struck me as odd and not consistent with what Jay as been saying. 

 

Also, in most situations I would agree 100% that you can build some leverage this way but not in this particular situation. They have been doing it the last two years and the only thing it has gotten them is more drama and less resolution. Kirk has made it clear that kind of tactic is not going to work. 

 

Anyway, it's not like I think Jay has soured on Kirk at all. Again, just seemed inconsistent with his previous position on Kirk. 

 

 

 

I don't think Gruden's opinion of Kirk will have changed at all. But what a coach says about a player under contract during the season when he's trying to win a game next week and what hes says about a (soon to be high priced) free agent after the season will have a different tone. 

 

I do agree though that the Skins are not going to build leverage through statements or leaks. At this point it is what it is.

[Rocky52Mc]

16 minutes ago, onedrop said:

problem is, someone, with confidence, said the same exact thing 5 years ago.....just one more piece to the puzzle.....if we could just solve for X.......only need one more draft.....

 

it is always the same and ever will be. we will never, NEVER, be good again. unless ownership changes or snyder gets another hobby and merely owns.

 

if i were Cousins id take less to play just about anywhere else. the organization has already stolen/wasted the careers of enough players.

 

Buddy, I'm so sorry to hear your outlook on how things roll around here. If you actually believe that Snyder's ownership (and your negative perception of it all) trickles down to the field and causes things like RG3 to snap his knee and Kirk to throw interceptions against the Giants in Week 17, then i'm not so sure I want to digest anything else you'd have to say.

 

If the team can get to the playoffs, they have a shot. Especially with Brady retiring sometime in the near future. We're more than a QB and the one we have performs on par with the likes of Stafford, Matt Ryan, Rivers, etc. and that's exactly where he's currently classed. Gruden has taken him a long way since he was a child-QB. Each team punches a 1-32 chance to make it to the big one, and a QB like this gives you a greater chance. If he's signed long-term the Redskins will compete for the NFC East as long as he's at the helm. We've literally just seen the worst possible scenario in front of him, patience will grant you his best. It's my belief that if you actually "think" negatively there will be no convincing here, if you're open minded you can see the possibilities of what we can accomplish. 

[Coach Janky Spanky]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's not the first time I've heard the story about locking up Kirk prior to him appearing worthy of it.  But think about that for a second, the guy you paid to come in and run the personnel dept. wants to do what he's paid to do, which is get the best deal/player for the team and he's told no, because the guys in the suite are still butthurt and unconvinced that RG3 literally cannot play.  What Scot wanted to do is exactly what I've wished this team would do all along.  As I've said on numerous occasions before, it's okay as fans to "want to see more" and let the QB play on the tag. It's not okay for the FO though, the guy they paid to make these decisions wasn't allowed to make the best decision this franchise could have ever made.  Locking up Kirk in 2015 puts to bed all the damn drama we've had for years now, Jay doesn't have to answer all these damn questions, and the organization has built up some good will with both Kirk and his agent.  Instead, here we are in January of 2018 still talking about it at an exorbitant amount of money.

 

Agree 100% with this.   And it's what drives me crazy most of all.   I think the failure to listen to McCloughan in early 2015 when he wanted to sign Kirk to a LTD will be one of the huge blunders this team has made in the past decade or so.  The deal at the time would've probably seemed strange since there was still doubt that Cousins was a long-term franchise QB, but within a few weeks it would've become clear that it was a genius move.   And then we'd have a bunch of cap space to sign other guys, guys we really could've used in 2016 and 2017.   Things would've ended up much differently this season. 

 

It's just amazing it played out that way -- what this fan base has really wanted for years and years is a competent and empowered personnel guy, a real GM.   We finally hire one.   Then we don't listen to him when he makes an absolutely critical recommendation relying completely on his talent evaluation expertise.   Instead, Snyder and Allen make a decision (probably based on their thoughts about RGIII), and it will haunt us for years.      

[Passizle]

I certainly hope so. Kirk has been the most consistent part of this team in recent years. While I feel this was a fluke year with injuries (I mean we were down to our 5th RB by the final game for cryin out loud)...

 

Take a look at this chart, and let that sink in...

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/was/2017_injuries.htm

 

We had 26 guys land on IR by the last 1/4 of the season. Combine that with the 7th hardest schedule (that will be revised upwards now). The teams we faced had a combined record of 113-95-0 with 5 of those teams heading to the post season... and WITH the injuries this team was in every game with a close chance to win (call me an optimist).

 

With a healthy team, a few additions on defense, and a lot of luck in the injury department... we ARE making the playoffs next year.

 

 

 

 

[onedrop]

2 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said:

 

Buddy, I'm so sorry to hear your outlook on how things roll around here. If you actually believe that Snyder's ownership (and your negative perception of it all) trickles down to the field and causes things like RG3 to snap his knee and Kirk to throw interceptions against the Giants in Week 17, then i'm not so sure I want to digest anything else you'd have to say.

 

If the team can get to the playoffs, they have a shot. Especially with Brady retiring sometime in the near future. We're more than a QB and the one we have performs on par with the likes of Stafford, Matt Ryan, Rivers, etc. and that's exactly where he's currently classed. Gruden has taken him a long way since he was a child-QB. Each team punches a 1-32 chance to make it to the big one, and a QB like this gives you a greater chance. If he's signed long-term the Redskins will compete for the NFC East as long as he's at the helm. We've literally just seen the worst possible scenario in front of him, patience will grant you his best. It's my belief that if you actually "think" negatively there will be no convincing here, if you're open minded you can see the possibilities of what we can accomplish. 

huh?

 

the negativity of snyders ownership trickles down, up, sideways, forward and back. my pessimism is based on historical facts. its always just one more thing with this team. one more component needed for success.....until, more failure. ALWAYS. 

 

IF, we get to the playoffs? doesnt every team in the playoffs have a "chance"? and what does brady retiring have to do with anything? 

 

while we may have some good players and even some good coaches / front office folks this organization is horribly run from top down.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I think it's safe to say that Jay transformed from coach to a suit with the way he addressed Kirk today.  He spent the entire season and even more so down the stretch saying nothing but positive things about Kirk.  But there is a possibility a deal doesn't get done, and he can't sell the world that there is no hope if that happens.  He's in a really tough spot that he shouldn't have to be in. 

 

Yeah that's pretty much what I think.   Jay has been over the top in praising Kirk.  Ditto as I pointed out just days ago.   I'll grant its not the best sign that Jay all of a sudden is giving comments that give the vibe of lets temper this down -- but even in those comments we got words like "great" and "very very good"   But who knows will see.

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I wasn't really implying Jay does not want him back. But his statement in that article is quite inconsistent with virtually everything else he has said. Maybe it's just being the company man. Maybe I am reading too much into it. But it just really struck me as odd coming from Jay. 

 

I get where you are coming from.  Will see.

46 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Even if they are not convinced it would be wise for them to keep the option open while they look around at alternatives in the free agency and draft. Makes no sense for either side to burn bridges at this stage.

 

I don't think Gruden's opinion of Kirk will have changed at all. But what a coach says about a player under contract during the season when he's trying to win a game next week and what hes says about a (soon to be high priced) free agent after the season will have a different tone. 

 

I do agree though that the Skins are not going to build leverage through statements or leaks. At this point it is what it is.

 

This is how I see it, too.  We are now in the negotiation mode -- Jay would not be doing favors to give over the top effusive comments now especially along the lines of alluding to them being in trouble if Kirk isn't back.  However, I think we are also past the point of standard negotiation, too considering this dance has been going on for so long already.  The whole situation is a bit weird.  I can see how Jay could be burnt out by it all and that's with the 2018 version of the negotiating just starting.  I can just imagine Jay think geez another 6 months of this where I am hounded everywhere I go about Kirk...

 

The Kirk speaking about this on Friday in a fan forum adds some to the weirdness. 

[SkinsFTW]

2 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 Then we come to find out that he never really had the control we were told he was going to have in the first place.  Then in typical Redskins fashion, the leaks started, anonymous officials and all that jazz.  Then finally, he wasn't really replaced.  So take what Scot did or didn't do out of the whole thing and its still just more embarrassment for fans of this franchise.

 

How this all ties together in regards to the Cousins deal is exactly the problem we've been screaming about for some time now....nobody freaking knows who is responsible for what around Ashburn.  Just the way Bruce Allen likes it.

 

Replace Bruce Allen with Dan Snyder and you have most of the past 20 years of the Redskins covered. Maybe Bruce does like the way Dan has always ran his team but the way this team is ran isn't this way because of Bruce.

 

Hiring Scot was almost exactly like hiring Schottenheimer and even Shanahan. Snyder knew the fans were thoroughly pissed and he knew that it was the right thing to do (giving up control) in order to WIN but after experiencing the partial loss of control, even when he didn't even really lose much control with Scot or even Shanahan either because they went with his BS regularly, he couldn't handle it. I'm thinking Scot was really in their faces about some of their dumb ****, like how we talk on here, and Dan and Bruce had enough of listening to common sense. Snyder loves his fantasy football team. Scot should have resigned before being fired for Snyder misrepresenting his position as a GM with FULL CONTROL, and sued based on the lie.

 

Dan Snyder loves it when nobody has a clue how much he's screwing up the team and when the finger gets pointed at a yesman instead of the real problem. The problem never changes, new barriers are thrown up for us to believe in their existence but in reality nothing has really changed in close to 20 years. Sure, he might try to listen to his yesmen more and he might convince himself that them agreeing with what he has suggested makes it their actual decision but this is all just part of his charade.

[SkinsFTW]

I can say all that and not even feel that I may be incorrect at all because this is the way Dan Snyder has his front office set up and it's been this way almost the entire time he's owned the team. He wants us to assume things are a certain way and I just assume the obvious and worse possible example of what he demands of us as fans.

 

And I haven't been wrong yet, as far as I can, or any of you can tell either.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

The locals in Denver are saying that the Broncos have already talked to those "close with Cousins" and expressed interest to offer a big deal.

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/2/16842236/rumor-broncos-ready-to-make-a-big-offer-for-quarterback-kirk-cousins

[Unbias]

For what it's worth Carson Palmer has retired. The Cards cap situation isn't great. $17M now, but retirement will add $14M+, so they are sitting with just over $30M. 

 

With getting a new coach they could opt for a slow build or they could try to win now. Thinking of their roster they have some interesting pieces and finished at 8-8 without their starting QB. It would also mirror how aggressive the Cards were originally to get Palmer. 

[lavar1156]

Marvin Lewis staying in Cinci. Not sure how he feels about Dalton. I'd consider trading Norman for Dalton and a pick and retaining Breeland.

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

Marvin Lewis staying in Cinci. Not sure how he feels about Dalton. I'd consider trading Norman for Dalton and a pick and retaining Breeland.

 

Lewis staying makes it much more likely they retain Dalton. The new contract is essentially a one year extension for Lewis, it's a win now situation there (to be fair it's a win now situation at just about every team!). Makes no sense for them to start again at the QB spot.

[markmills67]

I don't know about the rest of you fellow Skin's, but I can't cope with the cousin's saga going on for 3 more months. Let's just go with McCoy next year and spend the $52m cap space on young up and coming talent in FA, Draft mostly Defense and see what happens. 

 

HTTR 

[TK]

40 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The locals in Denver are saying that the Broncos have already talked to those "close with Cousins" and expressed interest to offer a big deal.

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/2/16842236/rumor-broncos-ready-to-make-a-big-offer-for-quarterback-kirk-cousins

Yeah well here's KC's twitter page right after last season.

 

 

[SprintBomb]

Letting Cousins walk will be the worst thing to happen to this organization since Snyder buying the team.That includes the Haynesworth signing, the Scott firing, the Zorn debacle and any other WTF things that have ever happened In the last 20 years.  It has the potential to set us back years. It's not often a team has a QB like Cousins. It's also not often that a QB and head coach work together as well as ours do. They screwed this up, plain and simple. Could have had Cousins locked up a few years ago but apparently didn't want to upset RG3. I'm crossing my fingers and saying my prayers but I don't think it's going to help. Cousins will be somewhere else next year. His new team will love him, his new fans will love him and we will continue to be the dumpster fire that we are. Burn baby burn. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Yeah, I don't put much stock in the twitter stuff.  I'd imagine that's not even ran by him.

 

I don't put much stock in rumors like the one I posted either.  Sounds like it walks the tampering line too.  Although I'm not aware of exactly what flies and what doesn't when it comes to that.  I would think given that he's still employed by the Redskins you can't just talk to people "close" to a player and express desire to acquire their services for a bunch of money.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Denver sounds wonderful.  I wish him well.

[Veryoldschool]

If they don't go to Cousins and his agent quickly with a huge offer than they are drop dead stupid and we are all crazy to continue following Snyder's pathetic drama.

 

They should use the Stafford contract as a starting point and say here is Stafford's contract which is X% of the cap, are we all agreed?  Okay, we expect the cap to increase during the next 5 years so we are going match the X% of the cap that Stafford got which means our offer is Y millions bigger than Stafford's, the current franchise quarterback benchmark.  In addition, and we feel this is very important to deal with in this agreement, since we have gone down this path so far without reaching a long-term deal in large part due to management & ownerships lack of confidence in its own judgment after a number of costly mistakes in the past we are also going to significantly increase the % of the contract that is unconditionally guaranteed as our sincere expression of faith in you and affection for you.  We believe in you Kirk and we want you to be our franchise QB for not only these next five years but we hope you are able to lead this team for many more years after that and will always remain one of the favorite sons of the Washington Redskins.

[Tsailand]

6 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I think Cousins future will be known by the end of the week.

 

2pm Friday.

 

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

Why? What incentive has Kirk or his agent got to resolve this quickly. They have all the leverage here.

 

Money.  We need to offer him a ton of money to sign with usbefore free agency.

 

 

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Sounds like it walks the tampering line too.  Although I'm not aware of exactly what flies and what doesn't when it comes to that.  I would think given that he's still employed by the Redskins you can't just talk to people "close" to a player and express desire to acquire their services for a bunch of money.

 

Yes, it's tampering.  I'm sure Mara will get right on that.

[Burgold]

23 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

Denver sounds wonderful.  I wish him well.

Also sounds a little like tampering.

[Veryoldschool]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

Replace Bruce Allen with Dan Snyder and you have most of the past 20 years of the Redskins covered. Maybe Bruce does like the way Dan has always ran his team but the way this team is ran isn't this way because of Bruce.

 

Hiring Scot was almost exactly like hiring Schottenheimer and even Shanahan. Snyder knew the fans were thoroughly pissed and he knew that it was the right thing to do (giving up control) in order to WIN but after experiencing the partial loss of control, even when he didn't even really lose much control with Scot or even Shanahan either because they went with his BS regularly, he couldn't handle it. I'm thinking Scot was really in their faces about some of their dumb ****, like how we talk on here, and Dan and Bruce had enough of listening to common sense. Snyder loves his fantasy football team. Scot should have resigned before being fired for Snyder misrepresenting his position as a GM with FULL CONTROL, and sued based on the lie.

 

Dan Snyder loves it when nobody has a clue how much he's screwing up the team and when the finger gets pointed at a yesman instead of the real problem. The problem never changes, new barriers are thrown up for us to believe in their existence but in reality nothing has really changed in close to 20 years. Sure, he might try to listen to his yesmen more and he might convince himself that them agreeing with what he has suggested makes it their actual decision but this is all just part of his charade.

 

Amen!  I agree completely and Bruce Allen loses his job the minute enough Redskins fans see him as just another of Dan's cutouts.  Sadly, Bruce would be replaced by another willing 8 figure buffer zone so the charade can continue.

[bobandweave]

4 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Hmm.  This is interesting. Jay is not sounding as all for Kirk as it appeared he was. One thing is for sure. If Jay is not pounding the desk for Kirk, he is gone. For me, Jay was the one guy who was all in with Kirk. 

 

The article below could be a sign the teams decision has been made - they are not sold on Kirk. I hope that's not true. But seems odd for Jay to make this kind of statement if he thinks Kirk is the guy. 

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/jay-gruden-kirk-cousins-very-174734289.html

 

 

 

 

When I read this part

 

Quote

Gruden was asked to sum up Cousins’ season, and he answered, “I’m still in that evaluation process.”

 

It struck me that this isn't posturing. Its actually an omission that Jay wasn't sure about signing him long term last off season and nothing has changed to prove it worthy now.

 

We all need to understand that Cousins job was to prove the doubters wrong this year and make the team commit to him. When you see things like this

 

 

Quote

"I think he’s a very, very good quarterback without a doubt, but as far as getting us over the hump from 7-9 to winning a division with all the injuries that we had, I think he competed"

 

It says to me that Cousins failed miserably to do what he should have done this year. That's on Cousins to prove he is worth what he was asking for. He failed. 

 

If the management and coaches weren't sold on him last off season there is no way they are sold on him now.

 

If they aren't sold on him now they would be morons to make him the highest paid guy in the league. Does not matter if that's what other teams players have gotten. The difference between Derek Carr and Matthew Stafford is those teams LOVE those players. Jay does not LOVE Kirk Cousins to be speaking about him like that. 

 

Things like that aren't said openly without team approval first. If they don't love him by now they will never love him. Things like that said there burn bridges, they don't mend fences. The teams likely moving on from Cousins this offseason