Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I just can't seem to wrap my head around how longtime Redskins fans are still looking for excitement.  I know Dan's ownership has conditioned you to look for that, but at some point I would think it would settle in that we've tried to be exciting on numerous occasions to no avail every single time.  I mean when I think about Redskins football for the past 2 decades, the first word that comes to mind is 'exciting'. 

[Ghost of]

11 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

I would never switch alliances from the 'Skins, although I could see myself becoming more of a casual fan overall and just watching the NFL for the the NFL itself. I have noticed a lot more people seem to just be NFL fans now in which they appreciate when great players do great things, or they will root for certain storylines to play out such as when an underdog team is mounting a Cinderella run, but they don't go all in on a team.

 

I've already hit that casual fan stage, except I skipped right past caring about any of it.  I haven't watched a full game this year of any football contest.  And I have to say, my life feels completely fine aside from problems unrelated to football.  It makes me wonder why past age 25 or so that I ever put so much energy into something so meaningless.

[Reaper Skins]

Oh god....  

 

Bruce is going to use Hard Knocks to try and distract fans from Cousins leaving and push the newly drafted QB down our throats isn't he? 

 

ISN'T HE?!?!?

 

 

 

[PortisBetts]

Just now, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said:

 

I've already hit that casual fan stage, except I skipped right past caring about any of it.  I haven't watched a full game this year of any football contest.  And I have to say, my life feels completely fine aside from problems unrelated to football.  It makes me wonder why past age 25 or so that I ever put so much energy into something so meaningless.

I found myself there by week 10 this season. I put it on in the background, but I watched more Red Zone. Seemed like towards the end of the year, it was more of a reason to hang out with my friends than to watch the Redskins. 

[Ghost of]

I think, contrary to received wisdom, that stability is one of the fundamental problems with the various regimes here.  You need stability when people deliver on their promises and potential.  Simply keeping mediocrity around isn't going to do anything for your organization.  It is clear to me that we should have retained McVay and let go of Gruden.  Gruden is what he is, this isn't about QB or injuries or bad luck, he's mediocre.  That's it.  

 

Even when the Skins haven't had injuries, has this team wowed you? How is it fundamentally different from the Bengals teams?

 

Why is it Minnesota was a kicking disaster away from basically having multiple playoff years in the last few and has a chance with CASE KEENUM (LOL) at going to the 'ship?

 

I agree QB is important but that's when you have Brady, Brees or someone who is at least stable enough not to suck on the big stage and throw multiple pick sixes a year.  

 

I say burn it down, we'll never get anywhere with Cousins or Gruden.  I think with a better coach, Cousins would be fine but we seem wedded to awful choices and retain..what was the terrible DC we had last year or two years ago instead of going out and getting Zimmer as our HC?

 

Most of the diagnoses of the ownership as being reckless or fickle is less the concern to me than it being hemmed in by moronic fans who parrot what other morons on TV say to them and keep throwing good money and time after bad on sunk cost fallacy while it is APPARENT with our own eyes watching how mediocre (At best) Gruden is overall.  Cousins at least has flashes at an important position to make you want to retain him.  

 

I say fire a coach every year until you hit a good year.

5 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

I found myself there by week 10 this season. I put it on in the background, but I watched more Red Zone. Seemed like towards the end of the year, it was more of a reason to hang out with my friends than to watch the Redskins. 

I think other things became so important to me that I had to address, and just the fact that I reflected on my criticisms of college football, the entitlement of players and I remembered guys like Ricky Manning who beat up a dude in a Denny's and got nothing but a slap on the wrist.  I'm not a fan of the moral dilemma anymore nor do I need to spend time, money or energy on people who, to a large extent, despise or feel hostile towards people I consider family, countrymen, etc.  And that was BEFORE anything this year with any protests.

[purbeast]

7 minutes ago, Ghost of Nibbs McPimpin said:

Even when the Skins haven't had injuries, has this team wowed you?

Yes, they have.  They have been able to move the ball with ease on offense the past 2 years when healthy, and that's without a running game.  Sure there have been some dud games, but every team, good or bad, has those.

[Ghost of]

Yes they've had some great moments on offense.  But it comes back to being married to mediocrity.  Everyone on this board said the (i've blanked his name out, but the guy from the 32nd ranked defense with the 0-16 Lions) was a lesser choice compared to Philips or others out there.  How much time did we waste on second-best, or "Tampa" guys when we could have canned Allen and forced Gruden to adapt to changes or just upgraded McVay instead.

 

That's what I mean about risks.  Maybe it doesnt' work out but if McVay is effective and can build a team you have a talk with him, dump the mediocre dude and go with McVay.  That's the type of decisions that sets you on the path towards a destiny, not hoping Gruden gets to 9-7 in a given year. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I'm not here to take a dump on McVay by any stretch but simply because he's doing well this season in LA, doesn't mean he'd take this group of Redskins anywhere.  I'm pretty sure if Kirk Cousins had Todd Gurley in the backfield, and a loaded defense constantly getting him the ball back, this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.

[purbeast]

Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I'm not here to take a dump on McVay by any stretch but simply because he's doing well this season in LA, doesn't mean he'd take this group of Redskins anywhere.  I'm pretty sure if Kirk Cousins had Todd Gurley in the backfield, and a loaded defense constantly getting him the ball back, this conversation wouldn't even be taking place.

To add to this, it's really easy to say what to do a year after it's played out. 

 

I mean we all should have bought $100k in Bitcoin a year ago too, we'd be millionaires now.

 

See how easy that is?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

To add to that, many of the same folks utilizing hindsight on that front were the same ones whining about his playcalling in the past.

[TSO]

29 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

To add to that, many of the same folks utilizing hindsight on that front were the same ones whining about his playcalling in the past.

 

What are you talking about? We just love and recognize the good coaches we have here. McVay was beloved! This is ES, where solid coaching is recognized and schemes along with the interrelated personnel the coaches adapt them to are understood at the deepest of levels! We also properly assess the effects, negative or positive, of the personnel department and the resources (or lack thereof) they use on various positions when coming to our final judgment on said coaches! 

 

[Unbias]

Hopefully this helps a bit because it took me a while. I wanted to look at potential landing spots solely through the eyes of the cap situation. 

 

As a point of reverence the Skins have ~$52M under the cap. There's additional cap space that can be created by cutting/trading/restructuring and the main targets would be Norman ($8M), Reed (($4.7M), Kerrigan ($6.4M) and Trent (~$4.5M). With some restructures we can probably add ~$10M, bringing us to ~$62M, but that doesn't include bringing anyone back (Brown, Foster, Murphy, Grant, Breeland) and we have Scherff going into his last year. The rookie contracts will also cost $5-7M, so when doing lose math let's say there's ~$30M-$35M that can go towards Kirk. Here's what the other bidders will look like: 

 

Jets = ~$79M in cap space

 - They have plenty of cap space and the only contracts that can't be adjusted are their rookie ones (Adams, Lee, etc...), so they can actually create more if needed. 

 

Browns = ~$109M in cap space

 - Just like the Jets. They have a bit more money, but less overall talent on the roster. 

 

Jags = ~$16M

 - They aren't getting talked about because Bortles has played better, but they could cut him, create another ~$19M and allocate that money to a LTD for Cousins. There's also another $15-20M in cuts/restructures that can happen, namely Malik Jackson ($9.5M), Allen Hurns ($7M) or Jeremy Parnell ($5M). If Bortles has a Brian Hoyer with Houston type playoff game I could easily see this happen. 

 - Adjusted cap number for Kirk = ~$35-45M (looked at potential money minus the estimated cost of rookies - did this for all, but it's still approx. type math). 

 

Broncos = ~$25M

 - If they really felt they were just a QB away, then this could be the move. The one random item is that they can create a lot of cap room by cutting/trading/restructuring many contracts; D. Thomas (~$5M), Talib ($11M), Sanders ($5.5M), Wolfe ($6M), Harris Jr. ($6.6M), Roby ($8M), Anderson ($4.5M). I'd also say the Broncos typically skirt the cap max, so I could see them be buyers this offseason knowing that defensive core might have 1-2 more runs in them. 

 - Adjusted cap number for Kirk = ~$20-$35M

 

Cards = ~$31M (including Palmer being retired)

 - Fitz is another $11M that can be created via trade/cut/restructure, so they are in the Skins ballpark for Kirk. 

 - Adjusted cap number for Kirk = ~$26-$30M

 

Vikings = $58M

 - This seems like a lot of cap space for a team as good as they are, but the truth is they don't have a single QB under contract for the 2018 season. Will they extend Keenam? Bring Bradford back? Maybe give Bridgewater an extension? All is possible, but I'm sure they are also thinking of taking some of that cap space and look for a QB. It's also important to note they have a couple what could be larger contracts coming up after next year; Barr and Waynes. 

- Adjusted cap number for Kirk = ~$30-45M

 

Bills = ~$39M

 - Clearly their coach is not committed to Tyrod Taylor, who if they cut/traded would give them an extra ~$9.5M in cap space. IMO they will be in the market for a new signal caller and could be a logical landing spot for Kirk. 

 - Adjusted cap number for Kirk = ~$40M-$45M

 

 

Final thoughts - Many teams can outbid us and logically they probably should. The Skins can allocate more money,but the team will be materially worse on defense by not resigning some stand out performers (Brown) and possibly having to let good players go (Norman). 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Veretax]

4 hours ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

The problem with the system is NO running game. We are one dimensional. As good as that one dimension has been, when we had legitimate WRs, defenses can limit the success of a one dimensional team, no matter how good it is. So is the running game failure the system or the RBs/O line?

Yes the Run game was crap, I agree.    What I was trying to sift through, is cousins a good match for the system, is the system a good match for cousins.   If dalton coul ddo similarly in Cincy... is it just the system and maybe its not that hard to find a fit?

we aren't that lucky either way.  2-14 next year probably if cousins is gone.

[Tsailand]

2 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

You're not going anywhere. The schadenfreude is too addictive. And you've already drunk from the cup. 

 

You've got endless entertainment right here. If you're impressed with this level of boobery, what could be next? Stay tuned!

 

Right, but I'm not going to be watching them every Sunday.

 

I hope we do get Hard Knocks, gotta expose the dysfunction to the world.

[Tay]

@Unbias

 

That's a good overview.

 

If I'm the front office, I think the decision is pretty straight forward. I place the transition tag on him, and let everyone know that we will match any offer sheet. This would give Kirk the following choices:

 

1. Play for the Browns or the Jets (they can create the only offers we can't match)

2. Sign the tag and play one more year in DC.

3. Sign LTD with Redskins.

4. Facilitate a trade to a team of his choice that would satisfy the Redskins.

 

Unless Kirk is signed to a LTD before the draft, I would draft his potential replacement.

[UKskins]

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

We would if we could.  This organization has defeated my fandom so many times over the last 20 years.  They are a hard group to root for.  Not the players and usually not the coaches.  Dan and the gang.  It's been this way long before Kirk and will probably remain that way long after him.  There is just nothing likable about the guys in the suite.   I don't need to go over the laundry list of reasons why that is, it's all out there for your consumption.  In life we tend to root for good people, it's why Rudy is such a great story, it's why we shed tears when the kid with downs syndrome makes the winning 3 point shot, etc.  There is nothing about Dan Snyder and the way he's ran the team since he's had it that makes you want to root for the guy, other than the fact that he owns the team we grew up loving.  This Kirk situation is about way more than Kirk Cousins.  I could never switch to another team because it's simply not possible to draw the same passion for another team at this point in my life.  However, I absolutely would root for Kirk Cousins to win a Super Bowl, simply because it would be a kill shot to the egos of the guys in the suite. 

 

100% agree with you on this - that's why I was so surprised to see him saying he could just give up on the Skins and root for the Jags.

[UKskins]

3 hours ago, PortisBetts said:

The thought of leaving this team as a fan started creeping up on me in 2014 when they tried starting RG3 again and he was a complete disaster as everyone on earth could have told you at that point...except the Redskins front office of course. Then the qb carousel. Then comes 2015, Cousins looks great. Awesome, lock him up this off season and lets get a team going......but they ****ed it up....again. I can barely recall a time when I saw something the Redskins did and said "wow, that was a good move." I am tired of saying that is a stupid move and will blow up in their face, only to see the move blow up in their face because it was stupid. Tired of calling a better defense from my couch than someone who is with the players every single day. I am sick of being mired in mediocrity. This team just strings you along until about week 9 and then it falls apart every single year. Once in a blue moon, they get lucky and squeak into the playoffs with a first round exit.

I get the sentiment of the post as a whole, but they have made a few good moves recently. DJax unexpectedly cut from Philly - boom, he's a Redskin. Norman gets the shock cut from Carolina, boom, he's a Redskin. Again, I totally understand the point you're making, but there have been a few moves that decent franchises pull, and we took advantage of those two situations beautifully. Can't think of many more though to be fair.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

Mike Jones on just now.  He more or less said he knows Jay has pounded the table behind the scenes for Kirk and still wants him here.  But its not Jay's call.   He believes that Jay's meandering statement the other day (both pro and con) is a combination of positive things Jay thinks of Kirk coupled with the company line thoughts about Kirk.  Jones goes most teams have their GM's out there at the end of the season at these press conferences but Bruce prefers to stay behind the curtain.  So Jay is tasked to cover the FO's side of things on their behalf. Jones said he feels bad for Jay that he has to talk without the help of the GM.

 

Jones thought is Kirk is likely gone but it wouldn't shock him if they transition tag Kirk.  He thinks they draft a QB high this time -- 1st or 2nd round.  Jones has stayed consistent with the FO being the issue of not wanting Kirk as opposed to vice versa.   With that in mind, I think it was telling when Larry Michael asked Kirk on Sunday as to whether he wants to come back and Kirk responded by saying sure, if the Redskins would have him.

[HigSkin]

Good grief, first Darnold and now Jackson thinking about staying in school.  It's really gonna impact the FA QB market and KC's number just keeps going up!

[theTruthTeller]

This would make a good sitcom.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's not just Gruden or the Redskins who would be worried about building around Cousins. It's Cousins himself. In multiple conversations with people close to him, it's clear that he shares that same concern: He doesn't want to hamstring a team by making it impossible to add or keep other pieces. He knows what he needs around him. Cousins' salary will make that difficult regardless and there's doubt he'd take a big cut in market value to help. That's also why Cousins will look hard at teams -- be it in Washington or elsewhere –- that can build and sustain a winner.

 

Last offseason the Redskins wrestled with this question: Could they get the same production from backup Colt McCoy? They will debate that same topic this offseason. Gruden has always believed in McCoy (teammates love his leadership) because of his knowledge of the offense and ability to go off-schedule with ease. But Gruden also chose Cousins to be his starter. So that's not to say he'd view McCoy as necessarily better, but someone who could accomplish similar things. It's also no guarantee they'd go this route because the decision involves multiple people, not just Gruden. The Redskins have made moves in the past without having the head coach in lockstep. Regardless, Gruden's comments help set the stage for the offseason.

 

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/35265/jay-grudens-comments-reveals-redskins-dilemma-with-kirk-cousins

 

[WelshSkinsFan]

@Unbias

 

I agree with Tay, that is a good overview.  I have done a similar exercise myself trying to figure out where Kirk might land and it is one of the things that gives me hope for a LTD here.

 

Jets and Browns don't scare me much, I doubt Kirk sees either option as particularly attractive as both are in rebuild mode and there is too much uncertainty.

 

Cards don't really have the resources and with a lot of holes on the roster will probably look for a cheaper option.

 

Jags have the money but will have some bigger deals coming up, my hope here is for Bortles to win a game or two in the playoffs and so convince the team to stay the course with him, if he reverts to type this weekend though I think they become real players and for a ton of reasons (stacked roster, no state taxes, climate) would be very attractive to Kirk.

 

Vikings, I just cannot see them letting all 3 of their guys go.  I think Bradford is gone but they will probably be able to get a team friendly deal worked out with Teddy B and depending on his market Keenum might be willing to stick around and compete for the spot.  

 

Broncos seem to be the hip choice but they again have some issues to address and to free up room they may need to let some of their veterans go which could in turn makes this a less attractive choice for Kirk.  I also think Elway might still want to try and lure Eli as a bridge or even a cheaper option like Bradford and give Lynch another year or two to develop.  Definitely an option but may be not as clear cut as some in the media think.

 

Bills.  This is the one that scares me.  Playoff wins or not they are clearly wanting to move on from Tyrod and they tick every box on Kirk's wish list.  For all of the struggles in recent years they have a winning history, a developing roster and cash available to sign Kirk and still strengthen along with a ton of draft capital thanks to their recent trades.

 

Feel free to disagree with all of my opinions.

 

 

[hail2skins]

10 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

There is nothing about Dan Snyder and the way he's ran the team since he's had it that makes you want to root for the guy, other than the fact that he owns the team we grew up loving.  This Kirk situation is about way more than Kirk Cousins.  I could never switch to another team because it's simply not possible to draw the same passion for another team at this point in my life.  However, I absolutely would root for Kirk Cousins to win a Super Bowl, simply because it would be a kill shot to the egos of the guys in the suite. 

This is such a good summation of where I am at.  I've always said that if the Skins win a Super Bowl under Snyder's ownership, I will turn the game off at the final gun and not be tuned in when the trophy is presented to that little prick.

 

As for Kirk......I haven't had a "second-favorite team" since childhood, when I also liked the Raiders and LA Rams in the late 1970s. But if Kirk departs, I would definitely adopt his new team as my second-favorite for the duration of his stay, no matter which team it was. 

[Skinsinparadise]

A guy from Sporting News was just on 106.7, echoed what Keim said which I posted which is that Kirk is interested in the full scope of the team he plays with and will value that over money.  He thinks for Kirk its going down between Denver and the Redskins.

 

If so, and there is something to the idea that Bruce-Dan want to spite Shanny, etc and that colors things to them on Kirk.  I'd put money that Shanny pushed his old player, Elway, hard to pursue Kirk.  Shanny lives in Denver.  The idea last off season that the Redskins won't deal Kirk to SF because of the Shanny connection -- if true -- Kirk ending in Denver I think is in its own way a variation of it.  If Kirk ends up in Denver I'd bet we read an expose at some point about how Shanny pushed it hard behind the scenes to Elway and as a Denver alumni -- he celebrated the transaction. 

 

[Veryoldschool]

7 hours ago, Llevron said:

I say again that if I had the choice, I would boot Cousins, Gruden, Snyder Allen and whoever we call our GM right now. Then bring back Scott, pick up a Harbaugh, and draft on defense, specials, and Oline, and pick up someone elses skill players that want to be paid too much but are crazy talented. Once I have a squad thats 7-9 or 9-7 max with a whoever at QB then im drafting 4 QBs a draft until I find my guy and try to win while hes young and cheap then trade his ass for picks and do it again. 

 

4

 

Harbaugh?  Which Harbaugh?  I don't sure don't want John's little brother who is stuck in 3rd or 4th place in the B1G East Division.

 

I'd love to get rid of Snyder but that isn't going to happen unless the NFL starts to crater and Snyder decides to bail to preserve his capital or Mrs Snyder hauls him into divorce court and gets a big settlement forcing a sale.