Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[UKskins]

11 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

.........knew he wasn't good enough to play in the PL anymore, with about 10 goals in his last 100+ games. So he played safe and took 3 years easy money in the championship.

This isn't a Darren huckerby thread and I wouldn't wish to make it so, but youre wrong. he was fouled more often than any other player, including Cristiano Ronaldo that season. The teams he turned down were Liverpool and Celtic amongst others, and mid table villa had offered to double his money. 

 

You don't see that kind of loyalty in soccer very often, and definitely not in the NFL but the point stands that if Kirk truly wanted to be here then he would find a way to make it work. That's a 2 way street and the FO need to step up and make a fair offer, not just lowball him but I'm not sure Kirk wants to be here enough to take anything other than a top money offer from the Skins at this point. A top money offer does us serious harm in improving any other spots on the roster though, although someone (really sorry I forget who) did make a good point about potentially structuring a contract is easier and less harmful than another season on the damn tag.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, UKskins said:

You don't see that kind of loyalty in soccer very often

 

Agreed, usually professional athletes in their prime have an over riding desire to play at the highest level, win trophies etc etc. So to give a home time discount and play at a lower level is quite unique and can be viewed in very different ways.

 

With regards to Kirk, it's no two way street. I've said for over 12 months that he has the FO by the balls. I'm not sure he needs to show us any loyalty at all. 

 

We've eaten 2 tags through the respective in year salary caps so paying him and dealing with the cap impact is 'easily' done. 

 

Its all on Bruce to commit with an offer that Kirk almost can't refuse. Otherwise he'll be gone.

[Bonez3]

Pay KC 28 mil a year... enjoy. He's a 25 mil a year ceiling for me. If the Skins offer that and he declines, adios.

 

Kurt is a top 10 QB, and likely has all the necessities to win in the playoffs. So, a top 10 QB doesn't mean he should be 10th highest QB paid, I get that. A QB that good can be the missing piece to a championship, so value gets compounded. 

 

But to make him the highest paid player in the league, he's just not that guy. Stafford has an X factor in my opinion. Carr, not so much. Cousins is somewhere in between. My limit is 25 mil, I think it's fair. If he wants a few mil more a year, bless his heart. I've stated there are probably 5-6 players with similar value or talent available next year. 

 

One player with a bullet for me will be Case Keenum. I'm seeing one of those end of career bursts ala Randall Cunningham, where a really talented QB is getting good coaching and applying great skill sets and will be very good. Give me Case Keenum for 18-20 mil for 2 years. 

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I'm just wondering when someone is going to say, "we should sign RGIII". 

 

 

Excellent post - The redskins would be fools to part ways with Cousins so that's exactly what I expect will happen.

[Bonez3]

Why be held hostage by a QB demanding more money than he's worth. I fully expect him to get overpaid and the QB wastelands of Cle and NYJ are in prime position, so that's exactly what I expect to happen. Further, he'll go 8-7-1 there to.

 

I would love KC on this team and I'm sick we didn't land him 2 years ago to LTD for 20-22 mil, but we didn't. Making him the highest paid player in the NFL isn't going to fix that oversight. It will only add to the mismanagement. 

 

If he doesn't go for 25 mil a year, time to cut bait. He is ABSOLUTELY replaceable. 

[PigskinRedskin]

I do apologize if this was brought up on a previous page or not but earlier this week Cooley and Kevin were talking Cousins and LTD, naturally of course, and Cooley brought up the idea of a 3-year, fully guaranteed deal (at about $26 million a year) and that Cousins would be happy with that deal.

I don't know if that's Cooley just talking out of his own thoughts or if he's actually hearing anything but thought it was another option out there. Thoughts?

[bradboyd80]

36 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

Pay KC 28 mil a year... enjoy. He's a 25 mil a year ceiling for me. If the Skins offer that and he declines, adios.

 

Kurt is a top 10 QB, and likely has all the necessities to win in the playoffs. So, a top 10 QB doesn't mean he should be 10th highest QB paid, I get that. A QB that good can be the missing piece to a championship, so value gets compounded. 

 

But to make him the highest paid player in the league, he's just not that guy. Stafford has an X factor in my opinion. Carr, not so much. Cousins is somewhere in between. My limit is 25 mil, I think it's fair. If he wants a few mil more a year, bless his heart. I've stated there are probably 5-6 players with similar value or talent available next year. 

 

One player with a bullet for me will be Case Keenum. I'm seeing one of those end of career bursts ala Randall Cunningham, where a really talented QB is getting good coaching and applying great skill sets and will be very good. Give me Case Keenum for 18-20 mil for 2 years. 

I think value also gets compounded by value to the team.  Cousins knows our system like the back of his hand and already has a rapport with his receivers.  Anything other than Cousins is an unknown.  Keenum might be playing well within his system right now, but you bring him (or any other QB for that matter) in here and there's no telling how he plays.  He could do well, but he could also tank.  At least with Cousins, we know what we have, and that's a consistently solid top 5/10 QB.  And he's doing that with half of our offense on IR.  He's more valuable to us than market value.  

 

Seriously, if we flat out let him walk because we didn't want to pay him $28M/yr versus $25M, it'll be the worst mistake this franchise has made in years.....and the fans will leave in droves. Not only is a bad football decision, but its a horrible business decision as well.  

 

10 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

He is ABSOLUTELY replaceable. 

I simply disagree.  One question for you.  Is this team, with all its injuries, 6-8 right now with Colt McCoy behind center?  Keeping in mind we have one of, if not the, toughest schedule in the league....

 

 

[squatch66]

@bla bla bla Good stuff on the cap and how the Jets can make it work, but you never once gave your opinion as a Jets fan. Do you like Cousins as a qb? Do you think he can win you a super bowl?

 

I agree with @Bonez3. I want to see the team make a good competitive offer to Kirk and let him decide. I'd offer him something just a little under what Stafford got.

 

And Keenum fascinates me. He is playing out of his mind this year. He would pair well with both Doctson (throwing it up and letting him make plays) and Jamison (underneath yac). I could see Jay really liking him.

 

Ultimately I think we see a tag and trade, but since we have zero leverage we won't get what we should for him. I could see maybe a 2 this and next year or a 2 this year and a 1 next year if we're lucky.

 

Edit: Just read @bradboyd80's post and I do think that the fans leaving could be a deciding factor into maybe trying to keep Kirk. Maybe, juuuuuuuuust maybe, the front office is feeling the heat from the fans regarding letting Kirk walk like it's no big deal.

 

The way I see it, Kirk is going to stare Bruce down all the way until they have to tag him. Tagging him removes all but the Browns, Bills, and Jets to try to trade him to so we would have to hope for a bidding war.

[TheGreatBuzz]

Every time I have heard something like that mentioned, it is quickly shot down with "owners don't want to set the precedent of fully guaranteed contracts."

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

11 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

Every time I have heard something like that mentioned, it is quickly shot down with "owners don't want to set the precedent of fully guaranteed contracts."

I can understand that perspective.  But I'd rather set the precedent for guaranteed contracts than set the precedent for how to lose a franchise QB.

[Darrell Green Fan]

What a great opening post, thanks for stopping by and taking the time.  I see it did not prevent one of our fans from trotting out the tired "he should not be the highest paid player in the league" argument.    Dear Lord people pay attention:  The highest paid is rarely the best player, he is the player at the highest demand position (QB) to sign a new deal. This title lasts only until the next good QB's contract comes up.   Why this is so hard to understand is baffling to me   

[TheGreatBuzz]

I think the implication was more that other owners would block us from doing that than just that we don't want to do it.  It's a bit over my head though as to how the other owners would stop us or even if they actually could.

[Rufus T Firefly]

20 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

I do apologize if this was brought up on a previous page or not but earlier this week Cooley and Kevin were talking Cousins and LTD, naturally of course, and Cooley brought up the idea of a 3-year, fully guaranteed deal (at about $26 million a year) and that Cousins would be happy with that deal.

I don't know if that's Cooley just talking out of his own thoughts or if he's actually hearing anything but thought it was another option out there. Thoughts?

I would be absolutely flabbergasted if Cousins accepted that deal.

[TheGreatBuzz]

When I saw the title of the thread, I was a bit miffed to see another KC thread.  I quickly got over it once I read the OP though.  Great post and thanks for sharing. 

[PigskinRedskin]

1 minute ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

I would be absolutely flabbergasted if Cousins accepted that deal.

 

Yeah, had no clue where that thought process was coming from and didn't seem like something Cousins is seeking. Thanks!

[skinzplay]

Welcome to the board, and thanks for sharing such an insightful and well-thought-out analysis, @bla bla bla. You guys could definitely use a QB, and we cannot afford to lose one. Interesting dynamics at play here. I still think that, in the end, Cousins will end up in Arizona.

[Bang]

On 12/10/2017 at 6:12 PM, redskins59 said:

Get his ass out of here.  I have seen enough.  I rather watch a rebuilding team.

As opposed to "rebuilding" for 26 years and counting.

 

You've "seen enough" but want more.

 

~Bang

 

 

[squatch66]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

I see it did not prevent one of our fans from trotting out the tired "he should not be the highest paid player in the league" argument.    Dear Lord people pay attention:  The highest paid is rarely the best player, he is the player at the highest demand position (QB) to sign a new deal. This title lasts only until the next good QB's contract comes up.   Why this is so hard to understand is baffling to me   

 

Here's my thing, at this point we are going to have to grossly overpay to get Kirk to stay. I'm thinking it would take somewhere in the 29-30 apy with something like 90 guaranteed.

 

My fear is that if we do a deal like that then we are going to be stuck in a situation like the Ravens were with Flacco. Flacco is far from elite but he got hot at the perfect time and had the Ravens over a barrel. They paid him and then they couldn't afford to keep guys they wanted to re-sign. That puts all the emphasis on hitting on a very high percentage of your draft picks. Does anyone have confidence in our front office to consistently hit when the Ravens had trouble doing it?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

I think the implication was more that other owners would block us from doing that than just that we don't want to do it.  It's a bit over my head though as to how the other owners would stop us or even if they actually could.

There is nothing they can do to stop it, but they could give Snyder the cold shoulder in a number of ways.  

[Taylor 36]

18 minutes ago, Bang said:

As opposed to "rebuilding" for 26 years and counting.

 

You've "seen enough" but want more.

 

~Bang

 

 

it is truly amazing at times how naive and stupid people can be.  I have a feeling the poster you responded to will have your post go right over his head.

[bla bla bla]

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

Pay KC 28 mil a year... enjoy. He's a 25 mil a year ceiling for me. If the Skins offer that and he declines, adios.

 

Kurt is a top 10 QB, and likely has all the necessities to win in the playoffs. So, a top 10 QB doesn't mean he should be 10th highest QB paid, I get that. A QB that good can be the missing piece to a championship, so value gets compounded. 

 

But to make him the highest paid player in the league, he's just not that guy. Stafford has an X factor in my opinion. Carr, not so much. Cousins is somewhere in between. My limit is 25 mil, I think it's fair. If he wants a few mil more a year, bless his heart. I've stated there are probably 5-6 players with similar value or talent available next year. 

 

One player with a bullet for me will be Case Keenum. I'm seeing one of those end of career bursts ala Randall Cunningham, where a really talented QB is getting good coaching and applying great skill sets and will be very good. Give me Case Keenum for 18-20 mil for 2 years. 

I think this is an interesting take. I don't believe every team is structured to do what I am suggesting. The Jets are in an interesting spot because we kind of have too much cap to spend with no one in line for a big contract. So while $28M per year average looks kinda scary it wouldn't be for us. His cap hits would be down to $23-24M (below what you are suggesting) once it will come time to resign our own players. 

 

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

Why be held hostage by a QB demanding more money than he's worth. I fully expect him to get overpaid and the QB wastelands of Cle and NYJ are in prime position, so that's exactly what I expect to happen. Further, he'll go 8-7-1 there to.

 

I would love KC on this team and I'm sick we didn't land him 2 years ago to LTD for 20-22 mil, but we didn't. Making him the highest paid player in the NFL isn't going to fix that oversight. It will only add to the mismanagement. 

 

If he doesn't go for 25 mil a year, time to cut bait. He is ABSOLUTELY replaceable. 

I think it would be very foolish to let him walk for $3M per year, however I don't think you guys are in a position to make an offer similar to the one I proposed.

 

58 minutes ago, squatch66 said:

@bla bla bla Good stuff on the cap and how the Jets can make it work, but you never once gave your opinion as a Jets fan. Do you like Cousins as a qb? Do you think he can win you a super bowl?

I think we could absolutely win a SB with Kirk on this kind of deal. It may not be right away but with the assets in draft picks and the vast amount of cap space I think we'd be foolish not to go 100 mph at him. If Kirk were a QB that depended on one receiver then I'd be more hesitant but because he spreads the ball around so much I don't think we'll need to shell out big money to a WR.

 

1 hour ago, squatch66 said:

Ultimately I think we see a tag and trade, but since we have zero leverage we won't get what we should for him. I could see maybe a 2 this and next year or a 2 this year and a 1 next year if we're lucky.

I don't see any way a team offers anything close to that knowing they will have a shot to sign him the following year. Why would Cousins cost his new team a valuable asset when he can collect the $34M for one year and cash in with that team once 2019 rolls around? He is playing the most protected position in the NFL I think he'll gamble on himself much like he is doing this year. MAYBE a team is willing to part with a 2nd round pick but I'd have to believe even that is a stretch because Kirk could just as easily say "no thank you I'd like to play out the $34M tag" You'd need to know for sure that Kirk is willing to take significantly less money and a team would need to believe this is their only shot to get him for this to work. I don't believe Kirk or other teams will believe this will be their only shot.

 

46 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

Welcome to the board, and thanks for sharing such an insightful and well-thought-out analysis, @bla bla bla. You guys could definitely use a QB, and we cannot afford to lose one. Interesting dynamics at play here. I still think that, in the end, Cousins will end up in Arizona.

I think the only issue with Arizona is that they'll only have $20M in cap space, I'm not sure they'll remotely be able to offer a comparable deal. It will ultimately come down to what does Kirk want?

 

Does Kirk want to go for money?

 

Does Kirk want to go to a win now team?

 

How much money is he willing to leave on the table to go to a Jaguar, Cardinal, or Bronco team so they won't need to clear tons of space?

 

I think the answer is somewhere in between which leads me back to the Bills, Bengals, Browns, or Jets. Of those teams I think the Jets are the most attractive.

[Bonez3]

32 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I think it would be very foolish to let him walk for $3M per year, however I don't think you guys are in a position to make an offer similar to the one I proposed

That's just like your opinion, man. He is very replaceable and it's obviously not about the 3m but more about the alternatives and overall plan. 

 

He absolutely is not a 28-30 mil a year QB. Further, with the rollover cap rules, 3m can be leveraged in future years. 

 

I like Kurt, but I know his limitations and he won't make the NYJ that much better. Take the Fitzpatrick year and add 1.5 wins to it. Than, let me know if it's foolish to pay him 40 mil or whatever your structure was

[SkinInsite]

1 hour ago, Bang said:

As opposed to "rebuilding" for 26 years and counting.

 

You've "seen enough" but want more.

 

~Bang

 

 

 

Well rebuilding is what most fans are used to. Even a tiny shred of competence must be a shock to the system.

[squatch66]

51 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

I don't see any way a team offers anything close to that knowing they will have a shot to sign him the following year. Why would Cousins cost his new team a valuable asset when he can collect the $34M for one year and cash in with that team once 2019 rolls around? He is playing the most protected position in the NFL I think he'll gamble on himself much like he is doing this year. MAYBE a team is willing to part with a 2nd round pick but I'd have to believe even that is a stretch because Kirk could just as easily say "no thank you I'd like to play out the $34M tag" You'd need to know for sure that Kirk is willing to take significantly less money and a team would need to believe this is their only shot to get him for this to work. I don't believe Kirk or other teams will believe this will be their only shot.

 

I don't think John Elway wants to wait another year. If he thinks he can win another super bowl with Cousins he will figure it out. There are teams with a extra picks (Cleveland, Buffalo). All it takes is one team to call and maybe we can get some offers. It's not outside the realm of possibility. 

 

I'm not even saying it's going to happen but there may come a time when the team realizes that they can either try to get better than a 3rd or let him play on another tag and walk for a comp pick.

[kingdaddy]

One team you may have overlooked is Pittsburgh...If Big Ben retires I can see the Steelers as being the perfect place for KC to end up. It's an organization that has a great reputation and they have the roster to compete for the Super Bowl. If Ben retires I see the Steelers as one of the top landing places for Cousins and I'd be perfectly fine with this.