Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

Call me crazy... Denver is the only team I won't predict because Elway is unpredictable with QBs. But if I had to bet, KC ain't even near Elway's radar. I'd be more willing to bet  Osweiler is higher on his board than KC right now.

 

Garrapolo or Brees will be NFL's highest paid player next year. KC will be the Bronze vs also ran

 

If Elway isn't interested than you got two weird dynamics in play.  Elway doesn't trust his old coach's instinct on QBs and the Denver media is on some odd wild goose chase.  And if Osweiler is his dude he has ultra weird way of showing it starting with letting him walk out the door 2 years back and ditto how this season has unfolded. 

 

All that has to happen is Garrapolo is franchised and then he won't be the highest paid player in the NFL so why would SF pay the dude that much more?

 

I am not calling you crazy.  But the ideas to me are crazy -- so I'll give you points for shock value if that's the goal.

[Bonez3]

I just see a lot of players that are going to be available for less than 27 millon and in similar age and/or talent bracket. Jeez, between the draft and Bradford/Keenum/Bridgewater as FA's and Manning/Alex Smith/Bortles/Dalton (possible) as likely cuts. Further, all these guys coming in WAAAAYYYYYYY less than 27 million....

 

BYE FELICIA AND BYE KURT

[Skinsinparadise]

41 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I just see a lot of players that are going to be available for less than 27 millon and in similar age and/or talent bracket. Jeez, between the draft and Bradford/Keenum/Bridgewater as FA's and Manning/Alex Smith/Bortles/Dalton (possible) as likely cuts. Further, all these guys coming in WAAAAYYYYYYY less than 27 million....

 

Even if so. And I think much of what you are saying on the subject is off.  But even if I agreed with every word, what's the point as to this subject?  I don't think anyone cares one whit what Kirk gets paid aside from hoping its not anything crazy high for cap reasons.  We aren't his agent.  The people pushing the Kirk signing want him secured for the future.  

[Tsailand]

3 hours ago, lavar1156 said:

Trade for Dalton or someone similar and then draft a QB.

 

'Member when people said Kirk would never be as good as Andy Dalton?

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

Cousins is elite. Game recognizes game.

 

While I agree with you, I can't help but wonder how many of the first 14 QBs Von Miller faced this season he called elite.... I bet it's at least half.

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

Kurt

[Warhead36]

1 hour ago, Bonez3 said:

I just see a lot of players that are going to be available for less than 27 millon and in similar age and/or talent bracket. Jeez, between the draft and Bradford/Keenum/Bridgewater as FA's and Manning/Alex Smith/Bortles/Dalton (possible) as likely cuts. Further, all these guys coming in WAAAAYYYYYYY less than 27 million....

 

BYE FELICIA AND BYE KURT

Not that much less if less at all.

 

Don't underestimate how desperate GMs can be for QBs.

[mcdonaldrw]

Gonna be sad when we are getting beat by wentz, dak, and kirk when N.Y. picks him up

[Bonez3]

43 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Bradford (WAAYYY less than 27m)/Keenum (WAYYYYless than 27m)/Bridgewater (WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYY less than 27m) as FA's and Manning (less than 27m) /Alex Smith (Way less than 27m)/Bortles(way less than 27 m)/Dalton (Less than 27 M)

 

[PigskinRedskin]

It's going to be hilarious to read through this after Kirk signs a 5-year deal to stay with the Redskins after the season is over.

 

Right guys?

 

Right?

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

It's going to be hilarious to read through this after Kirk signs a 5-year deal to stay with the Redskins after the season is over.

 

 

It would be awesome for many here including myself.  I guess crushing for some.  While the Kirk saga/soap opera keeps the Redskins relevant in both the local and national media (was that Bruce's master plan all along?) and by extension keeps the off season humming -- I hope this thing is taken care of fast.

[Veryoldschool]

Another guy weighs in on possible Cousin destinations.

 

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/20978049/nfl-destination-kirk-cousins-ten-teams-washington-redskins-quarterback-play-2018-free-agent-market

[zCommander]

So Kirk believes in continuity in the QB position. Imagine that. Kirk wants to be here regardless of some here who keep on harping that he doesn't want to be here.

 

If the FO is smart, giving them a lot of benefit of doubt here, they will bring Kirk back. 

 

[UKskins]

1 hour ago, zskins said:

So Kirk believes in continuity in the QB position. Imagine that. Kirk wants to be here regardless of some here who keep on harping that he doesn't want to be here.

 

If the FO is smart, giving them a lot of benefit of doubt here, they will bring Kirk back. 

 

What Kirk says and what Kirk does, do not match up. That's the problem. He says he wants continuity blah blah blah, but rejected a LTD because "God told him to" less than a year ago.

 

If Kirk wants to be here, I'm happy for him to be here at a reasonable rate. That's ideal for everyone. But Kirk doesn't want to be here at a reasonable rate, he wants to be here if we're paying him some ridiculous % of the cap which hamstrings our ability to put a decent team together. 

 

If Kirk wants to be here, he needs to prove it by accepting a reasonable deal - he has made a hell of a lot of money in the last two seasons, so now he either shows some loyalty and proves he wants to be here by signing a reasonable deal, or we let him walk. He is not so important or so good that we couldn't let him go.

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, UKskins said:

 

If Kirk wants to be here, he needs to prove it by accepting a reasonable deal - he has made a hell of a lot of money in the last two seasons, so now he either shows some loyalty and proves he wants to be here by signing a reasonable deal, or we let him walk. He is not so important or so good that we couldn't let him go.

 

You are more or less asking Kirk to forgo the spirit of free agency.  It's OK for Carr, Stafford and everyone else even Osweiller to benefit from the market on QBs -- but sorry Kirk you can't indulge.  Who else does that save Tom Brady who has a wife who already made a gazillion dollars.  I don't think there is anything inconsistent from what Kirk has said and some of the key beat reporters who have talked to Kirk's camp have said -- which is give Kirk a market deal (not a below market deal like Bruce offered last time) and he will likely take it and if you don't, he won't take it.

 

The impression I get using a pizza analogy again is something like this:

 

A. The average price for this type of pizza before hitting the market is $10.

B.  Some say if you push it where it hits the market, the pizza likely goes up to $13

C.  Bruce has offered first $4 for the pizza initially than upped it to $6 for the pizza

 

Then we wonder what happened?  Only reason too why the hitting the open market price drill is even relevant is because of Bruce-FO -- they single handily caused this market condition. 

 

We are wondering why doesn't Kirk love Bruce and this organization so much that he's willing to take the $6 for the pizza and sell out his family, charaties and his agent all for the love of the front office/Redskins.  I think that's a fantasy for ANY player.  And I get some of the people here don't care much for Kirk and think he's the $6 pizza anyway. But if so they struggle to be objective because their anchor point is off from the get go on the negotiation.   As Veryoldschool has posted there is likely a good market for Kirk.

 

Kirk's many comments about wanting to stay I believe are genuine.  I run my own business now but previously I worked in an office.  I liked that job but I didn't like everything about it where it was totally great.  In theory would I like to stay?  Sure.  If I thought I was undervalued by the people who paid me and knew I can get more money elsewhere at a place that looked attractive as well -- I'd bolt.

 

My gut on the negotiation using the pizza analogy again as for 2018.

 

A.  Kirk isn't taking below market value for the pizza.  It's $10 minimum.

B.  Kirk's goal isn't to go to the highest bidder, so its not about $13, etc -- he considers that his sacrifice money wise

C. If Bruce negotiates again (and I think he will this way) by trying to get the pizza cheaper, maybe this time for $8.  Kirk will say adios and you got to rent him.

 

If it goes down this way and the impression I get from some that cover the story that it might.  This is ALL on Bruce.  Because you likely can get Kirk at the market price without paying over it by much -- but that doesn't seem to be Bruce's approach, he wants a bargain. As Albert Breer and others have said he wants to come off like he won the deal.  If so, I doubt he gets the bargain he's tried to get for 2 years running.  And If I were Kirk zero chance I'd give him one.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 12/17/2017 at 9:36 AM, purbeast said:

If losses were losses to you, you'd realize that it's a team game and the record and losses doesn't fall solely on the QB.  You'd also realize that this team is decimated with injuries right now and he has been playing very well (for the most part, he's had a couple dud games too) with people who wouldn't even be on rosters of other teams.  I also forgot it's KC's fault that the other team's offense scores 30+ points regularly now. 

 

You bring up the Saints game specifically - I didn't realize it was KC's fault that they were up by 15 points with 5 minutes left and the defense couldn't hold.  I forgot it's KC's fault that on 3rd and 1 Perine couldn't get 1 yard for a first down.  I forgot it's his fault that there were 2 drops on the first drive in OT.  And yes I realize that he made a brain fart at the end of regulation (or if it's on gruden) but they should have never been in that position anyways.

 

He's the best QB the Redskins have had in over 2 decades and is breaking records and constantly atop the leaderboards in many statistics.  But yeah, let's just let him walk because any QB can keep this team mediocore.  You are right though, any QB isn't going to help what is out or their control, like making plays on defense or special teams.

 

This X 100.  Those ready to ship Kirk out deserve to root for a 3-13 team as that is exactly what they would have been with Colt or a draft choice behind center.  Me? I'm off to the Ravens should they somehow allow the best QB since Joe Theisman to walk due to incompetence. 

 

[purbeast]

It would be really great to wake up on New Years day and read about KC signing a long term deal.  There is absolutely no reason that the FO should drag this out yet another time.  There is absolutely no benefit in waiting out to try and save a few million dollars.  It hasn't worked in the past and it won't work now.  KC called their bluff.  Just ****ing offer the man a fair contract the minute after the last game is over while in the locker room and make it one he cannot refuse.  

[Bonez3]

25 mil a year is fair beyond debate, which is a pay cut. Kurt won't take it in my opinion. He will go somewhere else for marginally more money. 

[bowhunter]

I understand that much of this is "business." I get that. But the idea of sending off an "offer" to an agent just isn't how this deal should get done. It should involve a heart-to-heart talk with KC, with his agent, Schaeffer, and Gruden sitting quietly in the corner. Explain the meaning of Kirk to his team, and wanting to find a way to fairly compensate him while allowing the franchise to be able to build a team around him. Guarantees should be higher than average. I get the feeling that KC highly values respect and honesty. He's earned that. Show it to him. I don't know the man, but I honestly believe that it's not solely about being the highest paid QB, it should involve a contract showing commitment, not just to Kc, but to the concept of this truly being his team. Man to Man. After the talk, let the agent and Schaeffer write out the language.

[Taylor 36]

7 hours ago, UKskins said:

What Kirk says and what Kirk does, do not match up. That's the problem. He says he wants continuity blah blah blah, but rejected a LTD because "God told him to" less than a year ago.

 

If Kirk wants to be here, I'm happy for him to be here at a reasonable rate. That's ideal for everyone. But Kirk doesn't want to be here at a reasonable rate, he wants to be here if we're paying him some ridiculous % of the cap which hamstrings our ability to put a decent team together. 

 

If Kirk wants to be here, he needs to prove it by accepting a reasonable deal - he has made a hell of a lot of money in the last two seasons, so now he either shows some loyalty and proves he wants to be here by signing a reasonable deal, or we let him walk. He is not so important or so good that we couldn't let him go.

What Kirk has said has matched up completely to everything he has done since he has been here.  He's never once changed his story or his statement about his feelings on this matter. He never said that God told him not to accept the deal.  He didn't accept the deal because it wasn't a "reasonable deal."  He's never been offered a reasonable deal by this FO, and claiming he has been is shows ignorance or a complete denial of truth on your part.  He is a religious person who has said that he believes God will guide him, but not once did he say God told him not to sign any LTD offer.  That's just disingenuous and clear fabrication on your part, which seem to be par for the course from some around here on this topic. 

 

He doesn't want some ridiculous percentage of the cap.  Again, you are ignorant to what the market for a QB is if you think it is ridiculous asking price (go into a Jaguar dealership and offer them Kia Optima money for and XJ and see how long it takes them to laugh you off the premises).  And it sure as hell won't hamstring this team; that is pure nonsense.  What could hamstring this team is a FO that may tag him again instead of offering a fair LTD.  A fair LTD can be spread out of the life of the contract and easily managed to help the team; franchise tags cannot.  Plus, we will have plenty of cap space to work with signing our draft picks and FA's this year, but the chances of landing any good FA's will drop significantly if we allow our franchise QB to walk.  Guaranteed.  So, that extra three to six million we'd save by letting KC go won't help out in the end anyway, because players worth a damn that aren't just looking for a paycheck know that without a QB, they aren't going anywhere.

 

It basically comes down to people that can't or refuse to see how bad this team was beat up by injuries this season, and that had we remained relatively healthy, this team would have been in the hunt.  We are not that far off.  Sure, we do need a few key pieces and some depth, but any team that is having to start their 3rd stringers along with guys they literally pulled off the street days prior to a game is going to look like they have no depth.  However, KC walks and we are in serious trouble.  The ONLY reason we are not in the mix for a top five pick this year is because of KC. Period.  So, yeah, he is that important.  It's just sad that some football fans refuse to see it.

[Rufus T Firefly]

17 hours ago, UKskins said:

What Kirk says and what Kirk does, do not match up. That's the problem. He says he wants continuity blah blah blah, but rejected a LTD because "God told him to" less than a year ago.

 

There is really nothing wrong with either what he's said or what he does. But it is amazing that people think what he says means anything. He's not a moron, he says what he has to to keep his options open and not make waves. There's nothing good or bad about it, it just literally means nothing. And it always surprises me that folks who follow sports so closely don't realize that.

 

Every time people here post something about "Kirk says he'd love to stay here" or whatever as if it's a huge revelation, it just feels similar to telling my boss that my co-worker isn't doing his share and the boss saying "Don't be stupid. He told me in his job interview that he's a hard worker".

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

There is really nothing wrong with either what he's said or what he does. But it is amazing that people think what he says means anything. He's not a moron, he says what he has to to keep his options open and not make waves. There's nothing good or bad about it, it just literally means nothing. And it always surprises me that folks who follow sports so closely don't realize that.

 

I agree in general but not so much that his statements mean nothing.  I'd add I think context matters in this a lot.  If people follow Kirk's statements they match up well to context.  Even in his own interview last summer for example Kirk implied there was one point where he was willing to make a deal and there was one point where he decided he wasn't interested in a LTD.  

 

It's like any big decision.  The answer typically depends on circumstance and the targets keep moving.  What's true for today might not be true tomorrow.  And some media personalities speculation can develop into a narrative that to me rings false.

 

I'll use one recent example, Dan Hellie recently made a big deal on Chad Dukes's show about Kirk not counter offering the Redskins last offer -- and in his mind that means that Kirk didn't want to counter offer because he was afraid the front office would say yes.  So Kirk really doesn't want to be here.  He said it in a way where it was such a big revelation in his mind and he was proud to share.  And he goes Kirk will always say the right things so don't put stock in that and instead keep in mind he didn't counter offer and that says it all.   

 

Now we got Chad Dukes constantly chirping on his radio show about they should let Kirk bolt because if Hellie is correct, Kirk doesn't want to be here.  

If you listen to Dukes you'd think Hellie gave him inside information.  But Hellie said nothing of the kind.  Hellie was just speculating and seemed to be in love with his inference of the symbolism of Kirk not counter offering.    IMO there is a lot of nonsense like that floating around relating to the contract. 

 

I tend to put more faith in people who I've seen been correct on other things who claim to be talking to people in the know.   They could be wrong, too.  But I like my chances better with them.   And based on that most of the people who claim to be talking to both sides -- Kirk is cool with coming back.  It's just that he's cool with leaving, too. That's what makes the whole situation feel up in the air.   And most are skeptical that Bruce ever gives Kirk a fair offer.

 

That's my long winded way of saying I suspect Kirk's more pointed comments about wanting to stay are genuine but contingent on context.  Just like it is for most of us on any decision.  

[Rufus T Firefly]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree in general but not so much that his statements mean nothing.  I'd add I think context matters in this a lot.  If people follow Kirk's statements they match up well to context.  Even in his own interview last summer for example Kirk implied there was one point where he was willing to make a deal and there was one point where he decided he wasn't interested in a LTD.  

And that's exactly what I mean. He's telling us he wants to sign here, but then when the offer was a joke, he  makes it sound like "hey no big deal, I didn't want to sign anyway". 

 

That's 100% politics. He gets to say how much he wants to play here, while still avoiding being critical of the team for not really trying to sign him. That all means literally nothing to me. 

[Skinsinparadise]

16 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

And that's exactly what I mean. He's telling us he wants to sign here, but then when the offer was a joke, he  makes it sound like "hey no big deal, I didn't want to sign anyway". 

 

That's 100% politics. He gets to say how much he wants to play here, while still avoiding being critical of the team for not really trying to sign him. That all means literally nothing to me. 

 

Yeah I agree with that.  Grant Paulsen who seems to be one of the closest media personalities to Kirk just ran a segment about whether this is Kirk's last home game.   He goes yes he thinks it will be his last game.  He and Golston then debated about what would it take to lock in Kirk and discussed the value of having a good QB and Grant ends with yeah fine but he doesn't think the Redskins see Kirk and the QB position that way. 

 

The vibe that seems common to most of these conversations from insider types is that Bruce/Dan offering Kirk a market deal isn't just about them being fair to Kirk but its also about showcasing their competence.  Kirk and his agent are likely already skeptical about the front office's competence.  And the notion that Denver or the Jets or whomever value Kirk and the position of QB in a much bigger way than the Redskins -- I think that likely brings home to Kirk that he belongs elsewhere.  

 

I don't think Kirk goes to the highest bidder but if Kirk and his agent see their value to be a specific figure -- I doubt they are giving Bruce a hometown discount.  But lets say its between the Jets and Denver and both are offering him a market deal or beyond but one offers him more -- I think money then might not be the determining factor and he'd go to the organization he likes best. 

 

That's my theory at least.  It could be something else.  

[SkinsFTW]

So the QB position is worthy of throwing out 3 firsts and a 2nd on a QB who never saw a playbook in his life but not so much when it comes down to paying for an actual top 10 qb.

 

Ok then...

[Veryoldschool]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

So the QB position is worthy of throwing out 3 firsts and a 2nd on a QB who never saw a playbook in his life but not so much when it comes down to paying for an actual top 10 qb.

 

Ok then...

 

This!  A thousand times this!  Utterly ridiculous.  I briefly hoped after Oakland extended Carr that Snyder would use that deal as a face saving device and offer Cousins  a deal like it, but the idiot missed his chance.

 

Now the Skins are surveying customers to see how their fans feel about things including management.  I don’t know what to make of it.

 

I expect Snyder to slow roll this until March again.

[UKskins]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You are more or less asking Kirk to forgo the spirit of free agency.  It's OK for Carr, Stafford and everyone else even Osweiller to benefit from the market on QBs -- but sorry Kirk you can't indulge.  Who else does that save Tom Brady who has a wife who already made a gazillion dollars.  I don't think there is anything inconsistent from what Kirk has said and some of the key beat reporters who have talked to Kirk's camp have said -- which is give Kirk a market deal (not a below market deal like Bruce offered last time) and he will likely take it and if you don't, he won't take it.

 

Kirk's many comments about wanting to stay I believe are genuine.  I run my own business now but previously I worked in an office.  I liked that job but I didn't like everything about it where it was totally great.  In theory would I like to stay?  Sure.  If I thought I was undervalued by the people who paid me and knew I can get more money elsewhere at a place that looked attractive as well -- I'd bolt.

 

Which one of Carr, Stafford and Osweiller has made $44million over the last two years out of the organisation they signed LTD's with? Kirk has made enough money to set him and his family for 100 years, and now you see his character. Does he really care about winning a superbowl and leaving a sporting legacy, or is he out to just do enough to keep making money he will never spend? 

 

Regardless of whether it is with us or not, I absolutely think Kirk will go to the highest bidder. He cares more about money than he does about winning a Lombardi. That's not a competitor or a warrior I want leading my team. I'm not asking him to take a massive discount and sign for vet min, I'm saying if he is serious about winning, and winning as a Redskin then he needs to help the organisation out. He could easily sign for 20mill per year which is a pretty reasonable contract for both parties, and give the FO a chance to help him out. OK it's not "market value" but it's more money per year than most people make in a lifetime so the "short career" shtick doesn't work. He either cares about winning or he cares about money. I think it's evident at this point that if the Browns offer him $30mill per year, and the Patriots (hypothetically) offer him $25 per year to be Brady's replacement, then Kirk is going to Cleveland. He's just that kind of dude.