Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Rufus T Firefly]

People are going to earn what they can. I am sick of people acting like it's a character flaw. You get what the market will bear. They all do it as well they should. 

[UKskins]

10 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

What Kirk has said has matched up completely to everything he has done since he has been here.  He's never once changed his story or his statement about his feelings on this matter. He never said that God told him not to accept the deal.  He didn't accept the deal because it wasn't a "reasonable deal."  He's never been offered a reasonable deal by this FO, and claiming he has been is shows ignorance or a complete denial of truth on your part.  He is a religious person who has said that he believes God will guide him, but not once did he say God told him not to sign any LTD offer.  That's just disingenuous and clear fabrication on your part, which seem to be par for the course from some around here on this topic. 

 

Dude, he did say that. 

 

"I prayed about it, and I do believe that the Lord, at least in my life, likes to use one-year contracts and not long-term contracts."

 

There's literally a video of him saying it. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731609-kirk-cousins-says-god-told-him-to-sign-1-year-contract-with-redskins << Link to video is in there.

 

I'll look forward to your apology for accusing me of being disingenuous and making up "pure fabrication".

[Skinsinparadise]

33 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Which one of Carr, Stafford and Osweiller has made $44million over the last two years out of the organisation they signed LTD's with?

 

None of those organizations played what many consider the dumb game of franchising/renting two seasons in a row.   Bruce turned down Kirk's agent's offer in 2016.  And in 2017, Bruce followed that up with a low ball offer.  That's on Bruce not Kirk.  Kirk's job or for that matter any player on this team's duty is to take care of their own business as opposed to bail Bruce/Dan out from their dumb mistakes. 

 

I just heard today on some show that the Vikings are unlikely to franchise either impending FA QB and instead try to work out a deal.  That IMO is the smart way to do business.  

 

33 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Regardless of whether it is with us or not, I absolutely think Kirk will go to the highest bidder. He cares more about money than he does about winning a Lombardi. 

 

This just comes off like you don't like the dude.   That's fine but I doubt you are correct on his motivations.  But either way, neither one of us has any idea what Kirk's prime motivation is -- only Kirk would know that.    If the idea is just take whatever the team offers and that by extension proves that the team comes first -- then with that logic just about every player in any sport will disappoint you. 

 

33 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

I think it's evident at this point that if the Browns offer him $30mill per year, and the Patriots (hypothetically) offer him $25 per year to be Brady's replacement, then Kirk is going to Cleveland. He's just that kind of dude.

 

Seems like the bottom line here is you don't like Kirk and have his character pegged in your mind with precision.  You got me how you think you have the dude figured out. 

[Taylor 36]

21 minutes ago, UKskins said:

 

Dude, he did say that. 

 

"I prayed about it, and I do believe that the Lord, at least in my life, likes to use one-year contracts and not long-term contracts."

 

There's literally a video of him saying it. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2731609-kirk-cousins-says-god-told-him-to-sign-1-year-contract-with-redskins << Link to video is in there.

 

I'll look forward to your apology for accusing me of being disingenuous and making up "pure fabrication".

Where does he say that God told him not to sign?  I am not apologizing for you taking his quote and twisting into what you WANT it to be.  You don't like him, and you've gone out of your way to twist his words and to create an imagined character flaws that fit your agenda, so, yes, you are disingenuous and fabricating the scenario with Kirk.  I love how you didn't touch on anything else from my post either, like your "reasonable deal" malarkey. Hahaha!  Disingenuous indeed!

[Rufus T Firefly]

LOL. The line about one-year contracts is quite obviously metaphorical.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Psssttt...

 

It's UKSkins m.o. to make stuff up to be mad and wrong about.

 

Just let him be.

[skinzplay]

Oh man, I remember this discussion from earlier in the year. One of the mods stepped in to warn everybody against making fun of Cousins' remarks. I watched that video, and it did seem and sound extremely odd to hear him frame this contract situation in the terms that he did. Just strange. Maybe he was trying too hard because he was speaking at Liberty. It just came across as weird, and I'm not making a criticism of religion or anything like that. And I'm not gonna make fun of him for taking the Reggie White approach to contract preferences. His life, his body on the line.....the man can sign wherever the heck he wants to. A month ago, I would've said that he was definitely gone. I still lean that way, but if something goes down with the FO structure, maybe he sticks around. Damn, there's always so much uncertainty with this organization.

[purbeast]

6 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

So the QB position is worthy of throwing out 3 firsts and a 2nd on a QB who never saw a playbook in his life but not so much when it comes down to paying for an actual top 10 qb.

 

Ok then...

Haha wow, reading this and then realizing it's 100% factual is really incredible when you think about how this front office has handled things.  

 

I'll leave this really short story here.  My wife and I took our son to this somewhat new childrens places in Montgomery County called Badlands last sunday at 11am before the Cardinals game.  It's a place for kids to run around and have fun.  I was wearing my Salute to Service Redskins sweatshirt and my son was wearing a hand me down RG3 jersey from my brother's kids.  My son turns 3 in March.

 

I went to grab water for my wife and I came back and she told me she overheard 2 guys saying "I feel sorry for that kid" talking about our son because he had on an RG3 jersey.  My initial reaction was that they were fans of another team and basically laughing about him wearing a Redskins jersey.  But then thinking about it later on, I realized that those 2 guys were probably Redskins fans.

 

I don't know why, but the way this FO is handling cousins and has handled him all along made me think about that lol.  That is how I feel our fanbase feels about us right now.  My dad was a huge Redskins fan and all of his 10 siblings were too so I am too.  But they saw the glory years.  And now I'm trying to make my son grow up rooting for them too and he does, and knows who the Redskins are and knows what we do on Sundays.  But damn, it's true, he's going to be raised rooting for a loser at this rate.  I don't know if I feel right doing this to him.

[SkinsFTW]

Like I've said for at least 10 years. If it doesn't fit into Snyders marketing scheme and it's not exciting to him it's not worthy...period.

 

We could win with Cousins, with a 1/2 decent team around him but where's the fun in that when the next RG3 is about to enter the draft?

[UKskins]

7 hours ago, Taylor 36 said:

Where does he say that God told him not to sign?  I am not apologizing for you taking his quote and twisting into what you WANT it to be.  You don't like him, and you've gone out of your way to twist his words and to create an imagined character flaws that fit your agenda, so, yes, you are disingenuous and fabricating the scenario with Kirk.  I love how you didn't touch on anything else from my post either, like your "reasonable deal" malarkey. Hahaha!  Disingenuous indeed!

The bit where he says he prayed about it and God didn't want him to sign a LTD...? I don't like Kirk? Since when? I have said multiple times I do like him and would like him to stick around at a reasonable price. What I've also said is that he is not worth paying the crazy sum he wants. I'd be happy to secure him on a reasonable deal, which imo is around 24/25 per year. Kirk won't sign for that because he wants a certain % of the cap. I didn't touch on the rest of your post because I couldn't be bothered to write a big long response to someone so in love with Kirk that they would pay him the moon just because he's above average. Yes he is a good QB, no he is not an elite QB.

[UKskins]

8 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

None of those organizations played what many consider the dumb game of franchising/renting two seasons in a row.   Bruce turned down Kirk's agent's offer in 2016.  And in 2017, Bruce followed that up with a low ball offer.  That's on Bruce not Kirk.  Kirk's job or for that matter any player on this team's duty is to take care of their own business as opposed to bail Bruce/Dan out from their dumb mistakes. 

 

I just heard today on some show that the Vikings are unlikely to franchise either impending FA QB and instead try to work out a deal.  That IMO is the smart way to do business.  

 

 

This just comes off like you don't like the dude.   That's fine but I doubt you are correct on his motivations.  But either way, neither one of us has any idea what Kirk's prime motivation is -- only Kirk would know that.    If the idea is just take whatever the team offers and that by extension proves that the team comes first -- then with that logic just about every player in any sport will disappoint you. 

 

 

Seems like the bottom line here is you don't like Kirk and have his character pegged in your mind with precision.  You got me how you think you have the dude figured out. 

I'm not saying our FO have played this right, I hate BA as much as the next guy. Our FO has handled it horribly and are effectively a huge dumpster fire at this point.... BUT Kirk didn't want to negotiate last year - he wanted a tag. You draw your conclusions about how much he wants to be here, I'll draw mine, and in my world that action speaks volumes about what his priorities are and whether he actually wants to be here, or whether he just says what he needs to say in the media.

 

I'm not asking Kirk to bail the FO out, and I've never said take the lowball deals offered. I said he needs to negotiate a reasonable contract that works for him, and works for the team. If he wants a deal that doesn't work for the team which seems to be the case, then his motivation for playing football isn't a desire to win.If his desire to win isn't his prime motivation, and he forgoes the desire to win in favour of stacking cash then I'm sorry but that doesn't leave much room for debate about what his motivation is.

The bottom line for me, is that I do like Kirk and want him to work it out with the FO and sign a LTD. I won't be crying if he walks though, because although he is good, he isn't THAT good. My perception of his character is from what he has done for his part in negotiating, and where it appears to me that his motivation lies. I could be wrong, but he's done nothing to convince me he wants to be here - and that's not excusing our shambles of an FO, but Kirk has shown no willing from his side to work things out aside from saying what he really had to say in the media. Our FO has screwed this one up majorly, but I don't think Kirk wants to be here unless he is offered a ludicrous sum of money to do so, regardless of who is in charge of the FO.

Maybe it's because I'm British and I come from a slightly different background than the majority of posters on here, so I just see things a different way. What I can tell you, is I support Norwich City in soccer, and my favourite player ever Darren Huckerby was offered a deal to double to his wages and stay in the Premier League when we got relegated. He turned that down because he wanted to be at Norwich, and he was making less than 10% of what KC made this year. That is the mark of an athlete who likes his situation and wants to work something out, Kirk saying what he says in the media but refusing to negotiate does not scream "I wanna be a Redskin" to me, but that's just my take on things.

8 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Psssttt...

 

It's UKSkins m.o. to make stuff up to be mad and wrong about.

 

Just let him be.

I'm not mad, and I'm not "making things up" - just explaining my opinion and why I feel a certain way.

If you can't accept people having different opinions, or perceptions of situations, then maybe a messageboard/the internet are not good places for you to be.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, UKskins said:

I'm not saying our FO have played this right, I hate BA as much as the next guy. Our FO has handled it horribly and are effectively a huge dumpster fire at this point.... BUT Kirk didn't want to negotiate last year - he wanted a tag.

 

If you follow both some of the beat reporters narrative on it and Kirk's own version of events in the summer 106.7 interview -- he was willing to do a LTD initially but after the upheaval in the front office and more time passed by in the off season -- he decided he didn't want to make a long term commitment.

 

The guy that did the long story about Kirk in SI said he spoke to Kirk and his family for the article -- his take is that Kirk isn't sure about the current FO and whether its the right outfit to make this team a winner.  And he wanted to play the season out to see how it went.  That's pretty much the same thing Kirk said in his 106.7 interview though he couched it nicer than that.  

 

Jerry Brewer said in a recent podcast that he doesn't think Kirk per se is a given to want to stay because of him not trusting a Bruce run front office.  You are saying here that you don't care for Bruce.  OK.  So it shouldn't sound weird at all that Kirk doesn't care for him either.

 

My feeling based on all the narratives is what I said recently -- the competence of a FO also centers on how they value their own players and the QB position.  From Kirk and his agent's point of view look at it mainly like this: 

 

A. The Redskins front office for a long time has botched the position of QB. 

B.  Most other teams have been more successful at QB 

C.  The Redskins current FO structure isn't regarded that hot or at best no one in that office seems coveted around the league

D.  The Redskins handling of Kirk's contract is actually made fun of around the league

E.  They haven't handled Kirk and his agent with a ton of class -- the 2016 offer from what was told was ignored, they gave no answer, no explanation for ignoring it.  The wacky press release.  The Rapoport story that wasn't denied.

F.  They keep throwing contract offers that lets the team escape and move on from Kirk after 2 years

G.  You see other teams like the Raiders say we will do whatever it takes to keep our guy then they actually do it.

 

Now you got free agency in front of you. These dudes who played their hands like fools actually put you in this position of leverage. You didn't ask for it they handed it to you.  Are you feeling sorry for them and giving them a discount?  I know I wouldn't. 

 

Lets say you have the opportunity to play for a team with a better defense, supporting cast with a more stable front office and perhaps even a better recent tradition of winning like Denver where you likely could be their missing piece.   AND they are offering you more money with no exit ramp because they are excited about you and believe in you.

 

Do you tell your agent look I'll take less playing for the Redskins.  They've treated me so wonderfully and how can we not win with Bruce at the helm?

 

 

[Taylor 36]

11 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Psssttt...

 

It's UKSkins m.o. to make stuff up to be mad and wrong about.

 

Just let him be.

 

5 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

Like I've said for at least 10 years. If it doesn't fit into Snyders marketing scheme and it's not exciting to him it's not worthy...period.

 

We could win with Cousins, with a 1/2 decent team around him but where's the fun in that when the next RG3 is about to enter the draft?

Both of you are so right.  

 

@BatteredFanSyndrome His last post made this point very clear.  I'm taking your advise.

 

@SkinsFTW I have to wonder if Bruce is in Dan's ear telling him that KC isn't good and that he knows who the next marketing draw will be.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, UKskins said:

Maybe it's because I'm British and I come from a slightly different background than the majority of posters on here, so I just see things a different way. What I can tell you, is I support Norwich City in soccer, and my favourite player ever Darren Huckerby was offered a deal to double to his wages and stay in the Premier League when we got relegated. He turned that down because he wanted to be at Norwich, and he was making less than 10% of what KC made this year. That is the mark of an athlete who likes his situation and wants to work something out,

 

 

I watch the premier league just about every weekend, I like LFC.   I don't find it that different and in a way it's even more intense as for stars bolting  Gerrard for example is like a unicorn.  He stayed.  But the context is different.  He grew up as an LFC guy, it was in his blood.  Kirk grew up in Michigan and as a Bears fan.  Typically, as you know star players actually demand their way out of playing for losing organizations and or situations they don't like. And that's not even delving into a money dispute -- it goes double in those cases.  Kirk would have been playing for Barcelona, Real Madrid. Bayern, City or whomever way back in 2015 let alone this being dragged out through 2018. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 12/10/2017 at 6:52 PM, UKskins said:

If anything is clear at this point in time, it's that this team is nowhere near competing - Why pay any QB 25+ mill (more on tag) when it won't make a damn bit of difference to our playoff aspirations? You can't build a team to win with Kirk sucking the account dry - he's good enough to win somewhere but he needs a stacked roster to do it. We can't stack the roster whilst paying Kirk. There's no value to paying him, embrace the rebuild, tank the season and see where we go from there.

 

 

I just don't agree he needs a stacked roster.  He needs a good team, no doubt he can't carry them by himself like Rodgers. But just look at what he has been working with. This defense has been nothing short of horrible the last 3 years. That alone has made it impossible to win here.  He has yet to have an average let alone good running back. Keep in mind "average" means 16th best or in that neighborhood.  We are talking about Matt Jones, Rob Jackson, Pernie, Silas Redd and so forth. These guys aren't average, no they are at the bottom of the league and it's been this way for the entire time Kirk has been a starting QB.  

 

And still Kirk has been able to win.  Imagine how well he could do with a good defense and running game.  And decent receivers would be nice too.  I didn't say stacked, I said good.  

[Veryoldschool]

Unless Snyder surprises us by reaching extension terms with Kirk or plays the transition tag again I think we are going to find out what Kirk can do on a good team because he will sign with a good team.  The question of what could Kirk do with a good team may be addressed in 2018 but unfortunately not with the Redskins.

[TouchdownSkin]

51 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

Unless Snyder surprises us by reaching extension terms with Kirk or plays the transition tag again I think we are going to find out what Kirk can do on a good team because he will sign with a good team.  The question of what could Kirk do with a good team may be addressed in 2018 but unfortunately not with the Redskins.

 

You seem to only be a Cousins fan....the Redskins can be a good team with healthy players.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

2 hours ago, TouchdownSkin said:

 

You seem to only be a Cousins fan....the Redskins can be a good team with healthy players.

Not without Kirk. Unless we blindly luck in to another one as good. Unlikely, but if we do, dumbass won't want to pay him.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

Not without Kirk. Unless we blindly luck in to another one as good. Unlikely, but if we do, dumbass won't want to pay him.

 

Yeah the funny thing is lets say they get lucky and Colt McCoy has a career season, that dude is a FA the next season.  What next then?  One more version of the Redskins don't play that game of valuing QB play the same way as the rest of the league.  So lets franchise Colt and do the same dance?

 

I was just listening to Doug Williams' recent interview on 980.  Love the player, hate the idea of him having a major role in the personnel office but I don't fault him for taking the job.   But I think he's a classy dude with little subterfuge in him so in short interviews sometimes he will slip something that I think could be meaningful. Bruce on the other hand comes off like he is good at bottling things up and misdirecting.

 

Anyway, Doug talked about the roster, the draft, etc.  He more or less said when healthy he thinks this roster is close and strongly implied the thought process is to tinker with it (specified the defense) versus going for an overhaul.    I took his point relating to Kirk this way.  If they are going with Plan B -- its unlikely the draft but Colt or a FA. 

 

My bet on this remains no LTD and Kirk is back for one more rodeo on the tag -- unless we have some surprise development like Bruce is canned that helps change this script.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

23 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah the funny thing is lets say they get lucky and Colt McCoy has a career season, that dude is a FA the next season.  What next then?  One more version of the Redskins don't play that game of valuing QB play the same way as the rest of the league.  So lets franchise Colt and do the same dance?

 

I was just listening to Doug Williams' recent interview on 980.  Love the player, hate the idea of him having a major role in the personnel office but I don't fault him for taking the job.   But I think he's a classy dude with little subterfuge in him so in short interviews sometimes he will slip something that I think could be meaningful. Bruce on the other hand comes off like he is good at bottling things up and misdirecting.

 

Anyway, Doug talked about the roster, the draft, etc.  He more or less said when healthy he thinks this roster is close and strongly implied the thought process is to tinker with it (specified the defense) versus going for an overhaul.    I took his point relating to Kirk this way.  If they are going with Plan B -- its unlikely the draft but Colt or a FA. 

 

My bet on this remains no LTD and Kirk is back for one more rodeo on the tag -- unless we have some surprise development like Bruce is canned that helps change this script.

Please can Bruce, please.

[Veryoldschool]

The poll is closed now and the final tally is ~46% say Kirk will play for the Skins in 2018. I voted that the Skins would let him go but the cowardly thing would be to transition tag him so maybe that is what Snyder does.  The fact that Snyder is sending out a survey to his ticket holders suggests he is worried about a drop in support, so maybe even if Snyder can't get an LTD done with Kirk Snyder clings to him with a transition tag.  I hope the ~ 46% are right and I really hope the ~25% that think Kirk will play under an LTD with the Skins are right, I wish I was that optimistic.  Sadly, ~54% say Kirk is gone which is what I believe and it is going to really suck.

[Est.1974]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My bet on this remains no LTD and Kirk is back for one more rodeo on the tag

 

Thats my perception too. And if that happens our available cap space is 60-70% gone so we'd be tinkerering, not overhauling, with what's left.

[Skinsinparadise]

I think of all the articles on Kirk this one really sums it up the best -- just out from Chris Russell. I included a lot of the article, the whole article though to me is a really great read.  I bolded the points that I've been pushing. And Kirk's agent Mike McCartney liked the article on twitter so I gather he endorses what is said in it. 

 

https://www.dchotread.com/2017/12/23/kirk-at-fedex

,,,The exact second he was drafted was met with resistance and negativity. He was engulfed in a difficult situation by a coach and offensive coordinator that believed in him, when almost everyone else scoffed at the notion. 

He was forced into an organization with an executive branch that treated him like a mosquito buzzing around on a humid, summer evening in Washington D.C. 

It wasn’t Cousins’ fault, obviously, and it should be to his credit that he completely rose above all the nonsense to become what he has become. 

Yet, it still hasn’t been good enough and it probably never will be. 

Sunday could be his swan-song and if it is – Redskins fans – I implore you to give Cousins a huge standing ovation when he’s either introduced out of that silly over-inflated helmet or when he jogs onto the field for the first time. 

I have a feeling this possible last introduction will be met with indifference.  Has there ever been anybody more productive and yet more universally treated with a stiff-arm? 

Make no mistake about it: The Redskins lack of faith in Cousins at a fair long-term rate and structure combined with the way they slapped him in the face after 2015 has led to a complete divide in the fan base. 

Cousins deserves to be back. He should be under a more than reasonable long-term contract but the Redskins completely screwed him over and the rest of the NFL by not dealing with fair market value offers or understanding how things were going to work. 

They didn’t know their employee, a man built on a much sturdier foundation than just one of money, greed and fame. They never thought he would gladly take the franchise tag when it was first slapped on him. He did. 

They never thought he was serious about wanting more time to evaluate the Redskins organization last year, which was in complete upheaval. He was. 

They never thought he would repeat 2015 in 2016. He did. He was far from perfect but gave them a chance. 

....The Redskins aren’t really interested(at a fair rate/structure) in securing those services long-term and that is their choice. Maybe they’ll surprise everyone and end this charade in a positive, unexpected way but I wouldn’t count on it. 

In the meantime, if you are at the game Sunday, give Cousins a tip of the cap and a standing ovation. The words thank you might be nice as well. If you’re watching the game on television, you can do your part as well. It’s OK to appreciate someone who has done very good work in very difficult circumstances. 

I won’t be at the game and I won’t be watching the game live, but Kirk Cousins has my respect and admiration for how he’s tried to stabilize a franchise despite every path to glory being blocked.  
 

[RonBurgandy]

If Kirk was as good as some of y'all make him out to be,  then he should be able to produce more. He plays like a grown child jacked up on too many pixie sticks hoping to not turn the ball over so it doesn't effect his stats.

 

 

[Tsailand]

17 hours ago, UKskins said:

I absolutely think Kirk will go to the highest bidder. He cares more about money than he does about winning a Lombardi

 

He didn't counteroffer because he was afraid we would take his offer.

 

Sounds like he wants to go someplace where he can win instead of being stuck with our high bid.