Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

And btw, if Kirk signs with another team like has been talked about. at a discount or bargain rate then F him to the highest power..imo.

[Tsailand]

5 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

And btw, if Kirk signs with another team like has been talked about. at a discount or bargain rate then F him to the highest power..imo.

 

If he hits true free agency, he's going to sign a record contract with record guarantees, but it might be structured with low cap hits in the first couple years, and then Bruce will use those cap numbers to persuade idiot fans that Kirk is just a bad guy who deliberately took a low contract elsewhere.

[Est.1974]

18 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

Denver has 28 million in cap space. 

 

Will be nearer 50mil when they sort Talib's contract off the books and do a restructure on Von Miller.

[JSSkinz]

5 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

Will be nearer 50mil when they sort Talib's contract off the books and do a restructure on Von Miller.

 

It sounds like they want to get rid of Sanders too.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

31 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Denver has 28 million in cap space. We have much more then that. Poison pill contracts are illegal. So if Denver wants Kirk and doesn't want the Redskins to match a reasonable offer then they do need the Redskins on their side or Kirk will just sign a deal with Denver and the Redskins will match and keep Kirk.

 

The only leverage Denver has that the Redskins won't match is to make an agreement with the Redskins not to match and that's to give them draft picks.  

 

That's in theory true, makes sense.  By poison pill you can't put in language like if he plays in Washington 4 games in 2018, the contract becomes void.    But you can front load a deal as much as you want.   Thus if they get into a bidding war with lets say the Jets or Browns, they are screwed.  So as for a trade, Denver is the only team that hits me as a good trade partner. 

[Est.1974]

10 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

It sounds like they want to get rid of Sanders too.

 

 

Just looked, there's another 5mil+ in potential cap space created for them. Interesting stuff. At this stage, man I hope Denver goes all out to get Cousins, on the caveat he doesn't want to stick around here anyway.

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I think this will also be interesting because it would show whether or not he truly was just about the money. There is no doubt that the Browns or Jets could give him the massively front loaded contract that we've heard he reportedly desires, and there's pretty much no way that Denver or the Skins could (or would) keep up. If he truly wants to go to Denver and it isn't all about the money we can probably get a decent trade deal. If it really IS all about the money then he could sign the transition tag and go to the Browns or Jets and say "SHOW ME THE MONEY!" and we'd be screwed.

 

On the transition tag, yeah the Browns and Jets can make an over the top offer.   If so, might not be that easy to turn down.  I don't think either team is as bad as they look.  Jets have a big time defense. NY is marketing heaven.  Browns play closer to where Kirk's from -- he likely plays with Barkley as his running back.  And he has an all star front office with a ton of cap room and draft picks.

 

But I think there might be something to the smoke about Denver.  If there is a shot at trade value, that's likely the one shot.

[ThomasRoane]

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

  22 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Let's see, so far he absolutely going to the Jets, the Broncos, AND Cleveland with Jacksonville, Miami, Arizona and any other QB needy team "in the mix."

 

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

This is what it's like when a healthy franchise QB hits free agency.

 

And yet some Redskin's fans want to believe that our FO is smarter than all the other teams? 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

36 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

And btw, if Kirk signs with another team like has been talked about. at a discount or bargain rate then F him to the highest power..imo.

 

Yeah, he should just not exercise the leverage he's been provided by the organization and take less money to stay with a team he doesn't believe in long term. 

 

I think Kirk wanting to leave says way more about this organization than it does about him.  Other franchise QBs are treated differently by their organization and they almost always just re-up their contract.  We treated ours differently and he's taking a different route.  Think about how pathetic that is that there really isn't a $ figure you can put on making a guy stay here?  A guy who knows way more about whats going on in the organization than any of us do. 

[mistertim]

1 minute ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

 

And yet some Redskin's fans want to believe that our FO is smarter than all the other teams? 

 

In fairness though, it isn't like big FA or traded QBs haven't busted. I'm betting if they could go back in time Chicago would never have given up 2 1sts and a huge contract for Cutler, for example. Just because other teams want a shiny new toy doesn't automatically mean it will work out for them.

[Skinsinparadise]

John Elway: Broncos have picks to trade for, draft QB

Fresh off a 5-11 campaign, John Elway is entering a pivotal offseason for his Denver Broncos.

First and foremost for the executive VP is the quarterback position, which desperately needs addressing. Denver owns the fifth pick in a draft touted as being rich at the position. He also could make another big splash via free agency or trade, pursuing, say, Kirk Cousins or Alex Smith.

 

"Any time you draft that high you have to make 'em count," Elway said, via KUSA-TV. "We've got a lot of picks so we have the ammo also [to trade], so we've got to make sure we make them all count."

 

...Denver very well could ride out this period and spend the No. 5 pick on a quarterback, but the Broncos would risk spending their best capital available for use in a potential deal for Smith. Or they could sign Cousins and draft his eventual successor with no pressure on the latter.

As for the prospects, who would Elway -- who assembled a roster of three similarly average quarterbacks after Peyton Manning's departure -- select at No. 5?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000911438/article/elway-broncos-have-ammo-to-trade-for-draft-next-qb

[ThomasRoane]

Just now, mistertim said:

 

In fairness though, it isn't like big FA or traded QBs haven't busted. I'm betting if they could go back in time Chicago would never have given up 2 1sts and a huge contract for Cutler, for example. Just because other teams want a shiny new toy doesn't automatically mean it will work out for them.

 

Yeah but no other FA QB has a three year resume of over 4,000 yards with no running game to help out.  Nothing like this has ever happened before and it's because most teams would have been smart and locked up their guy early to a mutually beneficial contract that protected their interests.  The Redskins pissed away their leverage.  They'll never live that down.  Especially if Kirk goes on to win a Super Bowl.  Can you imagine what laughing stocks the team will be?

[bobandweave]

23 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

It sounds like they want to get rid of Sanders too.

 

 

 

Why would they would want to dump Emmanuel Sanders?

 

 

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

That's in theory true, makes sense.  By poison pill you can't put in language like if he plays in Washington 4 games in 2018, the contract becomes void.    But you can front load a deal as much as you want.   Thus if they get into a bidding war with lets say the Jets or Browns, they are screwed.  So as for a trade, Denver is the only team that hits me as a good trade partner. 

 

Denver is a very good trade partner. I agree. 

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Yeah but no other FA QB has a three year resume of over 4,000 yards with no running game to help out.  Nothing like this has ever happened before and it's because most teams would have been smart and locked up their guy early to a mutually beneficial contract that protected their interests.  The Redskins pissed away their leverage.  They'll never live that down.  Especially if Kirk goes on to win a Super Bowl.  Can you imagine what laughing stocks the team will be?

 

Sure, we'd be laughed at if he went on to win a SB (unless he didn't really play much of a part in the SB run). But what if, on the other hand, Kirk goes somewhere else, they pay him a king's ransom, and he ends up being completely mediocre and doesn't do that much to help them? Would we be seen as geniuses for not throwing money at him?

[JSSkinz]

18 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Why would they would want to dump Emmanuel Sanders?

 

1

 

Keep in mind this is stuff I got when reading the two Denver message boards last week so it's not like the FO has reported this.

 

The fans were ****ing about both WR's, saying there were declining and washed up, cant get separation, etc.

 

Actually

 

 

https://www.milehighreport.com/2018/1/22/16922106/rumor-wide-receiver-emmanuel-sanders-is-good-as-gone-this-offseason

 

 

They may also let CJ Anderson go to free up $9M in cap space.

 

http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/20/will-denver-broncos-bring-back-c-j-anderson-2018-nfl/

 

So Denver has no good TE's, and they could lose their starting RB and at least 1 of their WR's.

 

Good luck on that.

 

[skinny21]

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Seriously this is the way to go if 

 

1. Kirk is gone

2. Alex Smith trade is not possible

 

I must be the only one who gives a crap about getting the third round pick for Cousins in compensatory pick around here. The instant the team were to sign Bradford there goes that draft pick up in smoke. Not the right thing to do. If no Kirk then Smith. If no Kirk and no Smith then Colt all day. 

Well, in my scenario, Bradford would come cheap... which means he won’t come close to canceling out a comp pick.  

I’d be happy to go with Colt rather than pay for a qb, but I was talking PR wise - the team can sell Bradford as a cheap, talented, placeholder qb.  Going with Colt is a sign they’re fine with tanking the year... just not sure how many fans would be willing to stomach that after losing our franchise qb.   

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

That's a hell of a price to pay for Kirk. The 5th pick in the draft AND the highest salary in the league? I can't see it imo. Too much

If Kirk went to Denver, I’m just about willing to bet he doesn’t have the top salary.  Top guaranteed money maybe.  Don’t know that Denver would be willing to do the trade at all if they have to pay him 28-30/year.  I get it though, those that have diminished Kirk have latched onto the ‘highest qb in the league bit’... just comes with the territory.  

 

You made a really good point (in a later post) about Bradford being a late/emergency trade.  Personally, I’d take that trade in a heartbeat and hope to ride him to the HOF, but I could see a team balking at that price.   

FYI, the three qbs taken with the 5th pick (going back to the 70s) - Mark Sanchez, Kerry Collins and Jim McMahon.  Yeah, I’d deal if I were them.

 

2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

The gold standard is ANY/A.  He's top ten there also.

 

It’s kind of crazy, I seriously didn’t know he was that good.  I also noticed that in 4th quarter comebacks he’s tied for something like 137 (with 8 of them).  If he keeps up the pace though, he’d be tied for 17th all time within the next 6 years or so.  That’s ridiculous.  

[ThomasRoane]

23 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Sure, we'd be laughed at if he went on to win a SB (unless he didn't really play much of a part in the SB run). But what if, on the other hand, Kirk goes somewhere else, they pay him a king's ransom, and he ends up being completely mediocre and doesn't do that much to help them? Would we be seen as geniuses for not throwing money at him?

 

If the team's QB problem was solved then maybe.

[Tay]

7 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

If Kirk went to Denver, I’m just about willing to bet he doesn’t have the top salary.  Top guaranteed money maybe.  Don’t know that Denver would be willing to do the trade at all if they have to pay him 28-30/year.  I get it though, those that have diminished Kirk have latched onto the ‘highest qb in the league bit’... just comes with the territory.

 

I agree with this. Kirk's price would likely have to be seen as more valuable than Alex Smith @ $17M, since it would take trade assets in either scenario. Kirk at $23M is likely more valuable, but Kirk at  $28M the Broncos may not bite.

 

It'll be interesting to see it all play out.

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

On the transition tag, yeah the Browns and Jets can make an over the top offer.   If so, might not be that easy to turn down.  I don't think either team is as bad as they look.  Jets have a big time defense. NY is marketing heaven.  Browns play closer to where Kirk's from -- he likely plays with Barkley as his running back.  And he has an all star front office with a ton of cap room and draft picks.

 

But I think there might be something to the smoke about Denver.  If there is a shot at trade value, that's likely the one shot.

 

 I'll tell ya what; i'll bet you a virtual beer on where he goes.

 If you win, name your beer; I just want a 34 degree Dr. Pepper [ bottle ].

 I am sticking to my gut he is bound for Jacksonville, only because they're already set up and ready, where the Browns and Jets have a lot of offensive building to go through.

 

Did I miss something today? Sounds like he or someone close to him said he wanted to go elsewhere.

??

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I'll tell ya what; i'll bet you a virtual beer on where he goes.

 If you win, name your beer; I just want a 34 degree Dr. Pepper [ bottle ].

 I am sticking to my gut he is bound for Jacksonville, only because they're already set up and ready, where the Browns and Jets have a lot of offensive building to go through.

 

Did I miss something today? Sounds like he or someone close to him said he wanted to go elsewhere.

??

 

I'd take that bet, I'd say Denver over Jacksonville.  

[markmills67]

Cousin's can go wherever he wants as long as we can trade him to whoever wants him. 

 

Guess wise I will say he goes to the Brown's. 

 

HTTR 

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay talking about franchise-transition tag

 

http://www.nbcsports.com/washington/redskins/1-important-thing-remember-kirk-cousins-speculation-intensifies?utm_content=bufferaffc8&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

The Jets. The Broncos. The Browns. Maybe the Cardinals. 

Speculation and rumors will continue to connect Kirk Cousins with lots of suitors. He's a good quarterback that might hit free agency in the prime of his career. That just doesn't happen. 

Keep in mind, however, the Redskins can stop this process entirely with a third straight franchise tag. 

If it seems unthinkable, it's not. 

 

Yes, the $34 million salary is asinine for any single player in the NFL not named Brady, Brees or Rodgers. Cousins is not worth $34 million for a single season. 

Deploying the franchise tag and using the franchise tag are two different things though. The Redskins could tag Cousins and then look to trade him. That would give Washington their best chance at getting some value for a player it seems the club will eventually lose. 

The Redskins wouldn't get equal value for Cousins, but it wouldn't be nickels on the dollar either. If a team like the Browns, with more than $100 million in salary cap space and two 1st-round picks and three 2nd-round picks, wanted Cousins, something could probably be worked out. 

Washington can also deploy a transition tag, and allow Cousins to market himself and work on contracts with another team. The Redskins could match any offer sheet Cousins signs, but what if the QB doesn't sign the offer sheet? Maybe then trade talks could open up, and if another club has the framework of a long-term deal in place, that franchise might be willing to pay up.

It's riskier, but could reap a greater reward.

 

Informed opinion suggests Cousins won't sign long-term with the Redskins. Maybe that will change over the next month, but it would be an upset. That said, Washington should do everything possible to get something in return for their quarterback, and that could mean another tag. 

The Redskins twice tried to negotiate with Cousins and got rebuffed, during the 2015 season and in the 2017 offseason. In 2016, the team made a big mistake and undervalued Cousins, and that decision still hangs over these proceedings. 

The important thing to remember as the reports of Cousins' departure come fast and furious: The Redskins can still keep their quarterback. 

[Wyvern]

Following this thread, and ES fans reactions to this Cousins/Allen drama reminds me of the Kubler-Ross 5 Stages of Grief -- Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression  and Acceptance.

 

Different fans are at different stages, mainly at the "Anger" and "Denial" stages regarding the fix that the Skins FO has blundered into.  

 

I liken all the current trade talk to "Bargaining". But frankly, the only one with decent bargaining power is Cousins and the QB-hungry teams with lots of cap space.  There really aren't too many good options for the Skins.

 

Once the future becomes Clear -- and either (a)  the Skins commit most of their cap space to signing Cousins or (b) the Skins let another team sign Kirk away from them  -- then many ES fans (either pro Kirk or anti-Kirk) will Move to the next stage -- "Depression" -- on what this does to the long-term chances of the Skins.  And then, ever so slowly... this will inevitably transition into a lead-hearted "Acceptance" of whatever the Allen front office has wrought. ...Same old, same old, whatever.

 

At this juncture, the Skins almost need divine help to get out of the mess that Allen steered them into.  Either Cousins inexplicably gives the Skins a great home-town discount off of the market price -- or some QB-hungry team significantly over-compensates the Skins in order to secure rights to Cousins to sign that LTD.  Candidly, both possibilities seem like long-shots right now; because you know that Cousins and most GMs realize how weak of a bargaining position the Skins actually have.

[zoony]

3 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

And btw, if Kirk signs with another team like has been talked about. at a discount or bargain rate then F him to the highest power..imo.

 

I tend to agree.  But, i have to admit I`m somewhat torn because Dan and Bruce are such idiots, i wouldnt want to play for those two assholes either

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay talking about franchise-transition tag

 

So question... if cousins is franchised and traded to say, the browns... doe the tag reset and can the browns tag him the following year?

[Tsailand]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Deploying the franchise tag and using the franchise tag are two different things though

 

 

Does he realize that the instant Kirk signs that $34.5M franchise tag, he is guaranteed the money, no matter what trades happen?

 

5 minutes ago, zoony said:

So question... if cousins is franchised and traded to say, the browns... doe the tag reset and can the browns tag him the following year?

 

I don't know what the rules say about a 4th franchise tag, but at $34.5M * 1.44 = $50M, I think Cousins would allow it.