Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Colt is the obvious bet at the moment I agree.   I am not so sure that Dan's PR instincts impinge on this somehow, though.  I presume they realize how flat it comes off to let Kirk go and sell Colt as the guy.   And I don't think Dan has lost the desire to kick in with a PR splash.  Here we are talking about the reverse of a splash -- my prediction is that will be too much for Dan to take.  Will see.

I’m not so sure that it’s Dan directly , but it could be Bruce trying to do something splashy to satisfy Dan.

 

That said, while I think Bruce was ok pressing Mike to live with Donovan and Griffin, I doubt he would overrule Jay. I just don’t get the feeling Bruce EVER goes against Jay’s football wishes.

 

I think Jay wants to prove it with Colt.  

 

I guess if if there was a QB at 13 that made sense (Baker? I doubt he’s there...) I wouldn’t be surprised if they grabbed him.

 

Otherwise I see maybe a Glennon type of guy...

 

Personaly, I’d go after either Bridgewater or Keenum if they are available.  I would pass on Bradford.

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Maybe I missed something but where is this "Jay loves Colt" stuff coming from? Jay typically talks well of his players. But I have not seen him overly effusive of Colt. Is he supposed to say, well we know Colt is not even average and really basically sucks but he is a nice guy so we keep him around? Of course they have confidence in him as a backup but that's all he is. It's not like they opened the QB competition or even paid his huge money. Every single HC in the NFL will say they have confidence in their back-up but that does not mean they want them as starters. 

 

With all due respect I think you are projecting here because you don't like Jay. Having said that if you have something specific that shows Jay being overly effusive in his praise for Colt I would be interested in seeing it. 

Mostly from his end of season presser where he said he had total faith in Colt, and even had to backtrack a bit to say that they weren’t giving him the job, “they were still talking to the other QB.” He wasn’t even asked directly about Colt.  But he went out of his way to say how comfortable he was with Colt.  I’m on my iPhone at the moment, but I can pull the quotes later.

 

If I’m projecting, it’s based on comments Jay has made through the years about Colt, how much he trusts him, etc.

 

He talks about Colt the same way he talks about Grant.  They’re his guys.  He doesn’t really hide that fact.  Again, from the end of season presser, he was asked about the plan at WR, and the first thing he said was “Well, we have to do everything we can to bring back Ryan Grant.”  Unprompted.  

 

I’m also ok with Colt as the short term answer in Gruden’s system as a stop gap to a rookie.  

 

 

[CommanderDOOM]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

....just stick with bold, go for the kill if there is a guy you love in the draft even if that means trading up.  Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

 

 

My feeling in 2012.....swords hurt.

[goskins10]

10 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Mostly from his end of season presser where he said he had total faith in Colt, and even had to backtrack a bit to say that they weren’t giving him the job, “they were still talking to the other QB.” He wasn’t even asked directly about Colt.  But he went out of his way to say how comfortable he was with Colt.  I’m on my iPhone at the moment, but I can pull the quotes later.

 

If I’m projecting, it’s based on comments Jay has made through the years about Colt, how much he trusts him, etc.

 

He talks about Colt the same way he talks about Grant.  They’re his guys.  He doesn’t really hide that fact.  Again, from the end of season presser, he was asked about the plan at WR, and the first thing he said was “Well, we have to do everything we can to bring back Ryan Grant.”  Unprompted.  

 

I’m also ok with Colt as the short term answer in Gruden’s system as a stop gap to a rookie.  

 

 

 

That's purely your opinion, one I cannot disagree with more. Of course he is going to say he has confidence in him. Again, what are you expecting him to say - oh well Colt sucks ass sure hope he never had to actually play. Again, watch the press conferences for the other HCs in the NFL when they talk about their back-up QBs. The say nothing but that they have complete confidence. And I think they are all being honest. They do have confidence in those guys or they would not be on the team. You are making out to be like he is obsessed to a point it could hurt the team. Just not seeing that at all. 

 

And as for Grant, he was 2nd in receptions and 3rd in yds, 2nd in 1st downs, 3rd in comp >20yds, and 1st among WRs for recs/targets (Reed and Perine were better but they both had quite a few check downs and had less than 35% of the # of targets).

 

Jay has patience to develop players where fans talk out of both sides saying they need to be patient and develop guys then when they do they totally trash the team for wasting their time. 

 

The last statement I agree with 100%. I also do not see Colt as anything but a stop gap QB. I would be surprised if pressed Jay would think anything else. 

 

 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Trading a pick for any veteran is gag worthy IMO in the context of letting Kirk go.  You get older at the position and lose draft picks -- could it get much worse than that?

 

Your 2nd point about a splash.  I agree with it 100%.  I know its a tough point to make on a thread where you get 10 or so people who actively are rooting for Kirk to walk.  So the vibe feels mixed on Kirk here.  But when you look at the polls done on this -- its overwhelmingly in favor of keeping Kirk and Bruce's numbers are in the gutter.   I'd be stunned if they both let Kirk go and went for a meh sounding Plan B. 

 

I think Czaben nailed it, they need to shoot for Mayfield or some other shiny tool to distract fans with.   I just don't know if a Rudolph, Mike White in the draft or Sam Bradford achieves this.

 

I said this on the draft thread.  IMO the ouster of Scot and replacing him with basically a more powerful Bruce and Doug has put them in a PR pickle.  It clearly hasn't sold as something most of the fanbase digs or trusts (judging by radio polls, comments here, talk radio).  According to Cooley even Bruce recognizes he isn't liked by the fan base.   So good luck selling both Kirk leaving and a meh sounding Plan B.  If they do that and it fails -- if they thought their TV ratings and fan attendance was sagging in 2017 then 2018 would likely take that to a new low.  

 

I think Bruce has shown he can be incompetent and obtuse.  But I don't think he's dumb.  I think they recognize this.  And I do think it will effect their next move.

 

 

So, considering the qb market, via the draft, FA as well as trades, what are the chances someone like Bradford (with major injury history too), comes cheap?  

 

I wonder because, for all the talk about the PR bit, what if they don't go the splashy route?  How would fans take it?  I know some would be happy to go that route, but what would the actual fallout be?

 

What if:

The FO clearly signaled they were going a different route, showed a willingness to go the stopgap route.  

Showed they were committed to building the team.

They did that by signing Bradford, drafting a midround qb and focusing the draft and remaining cap on upgrading the defense and run game.  

 

 

 

[mistertim]

What would really be the point of bringing in Bradford if they were basically admitting to it being a stopgap? Why not just save the money and roll with McCoy while we groom a draft pick? I doubt Bradford would be "cheap", at least not compared to McCoy. Though we will admittedly need depth so if we could get Bradford for a low price then I don't really see why not...bring him in and have him and Colt compete for the starting spot.

[SkinsFTW]

Sam Bradford + Colt McCoy

 

Rob Kelley +Chris Thompson

Jordan Reed

 

Entire OL

 

Junior Galette + Mason Foster + Phil Taylor + Johnathan Allen

 

Redskins are going to have the NFL All-IR team next year.

[c slag]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

Not from anything I have seen or heard. Can you please share where those rumors are coming from? Not challenging you, just interested in seeing the source. Most of these things come from media wannabes just trying to get clicks. 

Redskins :Drama at Quaterback?

On YouTube 

Can not get link to copy sorry

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, c slag said:

Redskins :Drama at Quaterback?

On YouTube 

Can not get link to copy sorry

 

I will take a look at it. Thanks for posting.

[TSO]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

The last statement I agree with 100%. I also do not see Colt as anything but a stop gap QB. I would be surprised if pressed Jay would think anything else. 

 

Jay said, in one of his end of season interviews (SIP mentioned it to me, I believe it was on Redskins 100), that the media loves to take his quotes about McCoy too far or out of context.

 

Something to the effect that when he says he loves Colt, that’s IF Kirk isn’t back, but the media will run with it like he’s just saying he loves Colt and that’s that. 

 

I’m sure he also “loves” certain QBs in this draft. Probably “loves” one or two of the FA QBs. You know what he’d “love” the most? That the ones dealing with the contract wouldn’t have screwed this up so badly and had Kirk, whom he stood on the table for, signed long term a long time ago. Because, as he’s said, stability is important at that spot. But let’s just ignore that. 

 

It’s whatever, people will believe what they want. He shouldn’t even be in this friggin position, but this is what they do to the people they hire. Let’s trash him for dealing with the hand he’s dealt, I guess. Just another football person with actual talent here turned into the villain being added to the long list of them. Greedy Kirk and Stupid McCoy-loving (previously RG3-hating) Jay! 

[Wildbunny]

7 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

I think Jay wants to prove it with Colt.  

I know a famous HC that put is reputation at stake on John Beck.

 

I like you VOR,  you're kinda smart, but sometimes I believe you read too much onto coaches speak.

 

Remember all the flak Jay took when he openly spoke of RG3 his first year here. I'm pretty sure he heard about it from his bosses back then and now is acting like employee of the month on a daily basis.

[goskins10]

8 hours ago, c slag said:

Redskins :Drama at Quaterback?

On YouTube 

Can not get link to copy sorry

 

Here is an article during the time that Robert and Kirk were supposed to hate each other. The most pertitent passage:

 

It’s the first Thursday bible study of Washington’s 2015 season, and Kirk Cousins, Robert Griffin III and Colt McCoy are each in attendance. Team chaplain Brett Fuller ends the evening, as usual, with a call for prayer requests. Cousins, the surprise starter for Week 1 after Robert Griffin held the job all preseason, drops a bombshell. His father, Don, has metastatic squamous cell carcinoma, a type of cancer, and started treatments in July.

 

“That was something I felt like I could share with those guys,” Cousins says three months later. “I really appreciate the way the guys on the team have supported my family.”

 

 

I am sorry but I just do not believe them even for a single minute. They also talk about Jay liking Colt more than Kirk which is total bull****. 

 

Sorry I am just not buying what they are selling. Sounds like fan speak more than anyone who actually knows what is really going on. 

 

https://www.si.com/mmqb/2015/12/01/kirk-cousins-washington-nfl

 

 

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

I do not believe Jay wants to ride or die with Colt McCoy. He knows better.

[Fat Stupid Loser]

18 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by the insiders on 106.7 talking today -- odds are good that both Zach and Kirk are gone.    If so it's going to be one heck of a wild FA season I gather.

At least I can save some money on the Sunday Ticket.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

I do not believe Jay wants to ride or die with Colt McCoy. He knows better.

 

Agreed.

 

It's something he's been put in a position to have to say.  

 

I dont liken this situation to that of Ryan Grant, where Colt is a "favorite" of his.  He simply has to say that whether he believes it or not.  Kind of like the FO should have done with Kirk long ago, rather than the haggle the agent angle they took.  You tell the QB you believe in them deeply, whether that's true or not.

[bla bla bla]

On 1/21/2018 at 9:29 PM, lavar1156 said:

 

But remember what the cap hit is for those QB's. None even close what Cousins is supposedly going to get on the open market.

What if I told you there is a way to structure a contract so that Kirk is the highest paid player ever leaving the team that signed him with $71M in cap for 2018, $45M in cap for 2019 and paid him like he was the 16th highest paid QB by the time any young players need to be resigned?

[Skinsinparadise]

16 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

Jay said, in one of his end of season interviews (SIP mentioned it to me, I believe it was on Redskins 100), that the media loves to take his quotes about McCoy too far or out of context.

 

They asked him about Colt.  Jay said "If Kirk isn't back or something like that" then paused and said something to the effect of people will take that part of it out and just mention what he said about Colt.  Cooley, Mike Jones among others think that Jay wants Kirk back, that's his #1 option.

 

However, as Jay said he's invested a lot of time in Kirk.  If Kirk is gone -- I don't find it too strange that his preference is to be able to run his full playbook with the other guy who knows his system, Colt McCoy.  It's just the hand he's dealt.  What we don't know is maybe he's under pressure to win this season or he's gone.   Doing that with a new guy might not be easy and he realizes that.

[skinny21]

10 hours ago, mistertim said:

What would really be the point of bringing in Bradford if they were basically admitting to it being a stopgap? Why not just save the money and roll with McCoy while we groom a draft pick? I doubt Bradford would be "cheap", at least not compared to McCoy. Though we will admittedly need depth so if we could get Bradford for a low price then I don't really see why not...bring him in and have him and Colt compete for the starting spot.

All good points.  I guess I was thinking that if they could save somewhere around 15 mil, they could still be active in FA while also having a shot at competitiveness.  You're absolutely right though - I'd prefer to roll with Colt, have even more money for FA (and, more importantly, money to roll over and extend guys that are due), and likely land a higher draft slot.  I think part of my rationale was the idea that signing Bradford is less of a signal we're planning on tanking the season and therefore might make it a bit less difficult to sign certain FAs. 

 

My main point/question still stands... what would be the PR fallout?  Would fans say, hey, they lost out on Kirk, but at least they're still focused on building the team the right way.*

 

*letting your franchise qb walk isn't my idea of proper team building, but at least they wouldn't be trading draft picks (for a qb) and would allow themselves more cap flexibility.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

That's purely your opinion, one I cannot disagree with more. Of course he is going to say he has confidence in him. Again, what are you expecting him to say - oh well Colt sucks ass sure hope he never had to actually play. Again, watch the press conferences for the other HCs in the NFL when they talk about their back-up QBs. The say nothing but that they have complete confidence. And I think they are all being honest. They do have confidence in those guys or they would not be on the team. You are making out to be like he is obsessed to a point it could hurt the team. Just not seeing that at all. 

Ok, fair enough, but I think it's different. And with respect (I really do enjoy our conversations, even if we disagree), I think you might be able to apply the same comment you made to me to you in reverse. I think that you like and defend Jay, and therefore you are looking at his comments through that lens, and might be projecting, or maybe interpreting, a bit also. This is completely fair, everybody brings their perception to analyze a situation.  

 

I think if the coach is asked about one player, and you bring up another player, you are clearly making a point.  When you'er asked about the QB position, and immediately launch into how much you like a backup QB that hasn't played in 3 years, that's making a point.  Then when you're asked about a starter opposite Doctson, and you go off on how outstanding Ryan Grant is, that's also making a point.  

 

"Coach, what are you going to do if Kirk is no longer here?"

"Well, we have to look at all of our options, the ones that are both in-house, free agency, and through the draft."

 

"Coach, what's the plan for the starter opposite Doctson"

"Well, Doctson is going to have to earn that starting spot.  We weren't good enough on the outside this year, we're goin gto have to address it, bring in competition, and evaluate both the guys that we have on the team and new additions to the Roster."
 

That's typical coach speak.  The unprompted praise of secondary players is not coach speak.  

 

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

And as for Grant, he was 2nd in receptions and 3rd in yds, 2nd in 1st downs, 3rd in comp >20yds, and 1st among WRs for recs/targets (Reed and Perine were better but they both had quite a few check downs and had less than 35% of the # of targets).

You're proving my point.   That is evidence that you have sub-par players on the outside.  When a player who is physically limited is a starter, sure, you're going to see some production.

 

But that should never, ever, ever happen.

 

The evidence is right there:  Look at the offense and the production from 2015 and 2016 vs. 2016.  Sure, some of it can be explained by a bad OL.  HOWEVER, do you think that if the 2016 offense had lost components of the OL, they couldn't have done over-coming it with players who can win 1:1 matchups quickly, and don't have to rely on the scheme to get them open?  I do.  I'm not arguing that they should have kept DJax/Garcon at their prices and age, but replacing them with unknowns and backups was foolish.  Put that on whoever you want, Jay, Bruce, Dan, SM (before he was fired), Doug, doesn't matter. 

 

And my concern is that everything points to making the same mistake again. 

 

10 hours ago, goskins10 said:

Jay has patience to develop players where fans talk out of both sides saying they need to be patient and develop guys then when they do they totally trash the team for wasting their time. 

Jay has patience only with his guys. Effort guys, try hard guys, smart guys. 

 

A key to management is knowing WHO to have patience with.  If you're going to have patience with somebody to develop them, they better have a high ceiling.  Having patience on a guy who works really hard but just isn't going to "get it" is a good story, feels good, but a waste of time.  

[Tarpon75]

26 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

What if I told you there is a way to structure a contract so that Kirk is the highest paid player ever leaving the team that signed him with $71M in cap for 2018, $45M in cap for 2019 and paid him like he was the 16th highest paid QB by the time any young players need to be resigned?

I’ll take the bait, how does a team do that?

[bla bla bla]

5 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said:

I’ll take the bait, how does a team do that?

 

Now I think if he is a UFA he likely goes to the Broncos because I could see him actually taking a lower deal but if he is in fact Transition Tagged there are only 2 teams that can outmatch the Redskins, the Browns and the Jets. Since the Browns have the #1 and #4 picks I'm going to assume they look towards the draft but I suppose they could offer a similar deal.

 

6 years $168M ($28M per year) to the Jets

 

Year 1 - $40M.....$71M remaining in cap

Year 2 - $35M.....$45M remaining in cap assuming no roll over from 2018

 

These first 2 years would be to beat the Transition Tag. 

 

Year 3 - $24M - The 15th highest paid QB (2018) is Brady at just north of 12.0% of the Patriots overall cap. With the 2020 cap projected at $200M, this would put Kirk exactly at 12.0% of the Jets overall cap or the same value as the 16th highest paid QB. This would also be the year the Jets need to start locking up young players (Leonard Williams and Jordan Jenkins)

 

Year 4 - $23M

Year 5 - $23M

Year 6 - $23M

 

Since the cap would be going up each year he'd be an even smaller percentage the final 3 years. (10.0% of the cap by year 6)

[Tarpon75]

Bbb, in your opinion what is the best way for the Redskins to try to Structure a deal for Kirk? Hate to see him leave.

7 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

 

Now I think if he is a UFA he likely goes to the Broncos because I could see him actually taking a lower deal but if he is in fact Transition Tagged there are only 2 teams that can outmatch the Redskins, the Browns and the Jets. Since the Browns have the #1 and #4 picks I'm going to assume they look towards the draft but I suppose they could offer a similar deal.

 

6 years $168M ($28M per year) to the Jets

 

Year 1 - $40M.....$71M remaining in cap

Year 2 - $35M.....$45M remaining in cap assuming no roll over from 2018

 

These first 2 years would be to beat the Transition Tag. 

 

Year 3 - $24M - The 15th highest paid QB (2018) is Brady at just north of 12.0% of the Patriots overall cap. With the 2020 cap projected at $200M, this would put Kirk exactly at 12.0% of the Jets overall cap or the same value as the 16th highest paid QB. This would also be the year the Jets need to start locking up young players (Leonard Williams and Jordan Jenkins)

 

Year 4 - $23M

Year 5 - $23M

Year 6 - $23M

 

Since the cap would be going up each year he'd be an even smaller percentage the final 3 years. (10.0% of the cap by year 6)

Assuming he would be willing to play for the Jets. If he weren’t willing to play for the Jets and wanted to play for the Broncos, I guess the sign and trade idea that so many people are talking about might not be that far fetched.

[UKskins]

30 minutes ago, Tarpon75 said:

I’ll take the bait, how does a team do that?

Every single post he makes is about how the Jets are going to sign Kirk. Not sure what you thought was coming next but I called it from a mile out. 

 

We thought we had it bad as Skins fans but I don't think any of us haunt other teams boards re-posting the same thing ad nauseum because we hope we can sign one of their players.

[Tarpon75]

3 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Every single post he makes is about how the Jets are going to sign Kirk.

 

We thought we had it bad as Skins fans but I don't think any of us haunt other teams boards re-posting the same thing ad nauseum because we hope we can sign one of their players.

 Didn’t realize that was the scenario, hadn’t read previous posts.

[UKskins]

1 minute ago, Tarpon75 said:

 Didn’t realize that was the scenario.

Seriously - check his post history - it's quite funny.

 

(BBB - I mean no offence by this, but you've made 17 posts that basically say "Ah, but the Jets can outbid everyone" or "ah but think of the NYC market - think of the sponsorship deals Kirk could get as a Jet" or "ah but the Jets are a team on the up, everybody wants to play there, all of NYC are Jets fans".... it's funny but you definitely have one of the worst cases of homer-itis I've ever seen... at least we Skins fans know our team sucks!  )