Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

You're assuming that Elway thinks Cousins is worth it or is even all that great. We have no way of knowing. For all we know he might look at the two QBs and think he could win equally well either, or maybe even more with Smith. If a team is relying a bunch on an elite defense they mostly just need a QB who will be efficient, not make many mistakes, and make plays when needed. Smith fits that bill and would cost significantly less than Cousins. I know some people get tired of hearing about the whole thing, but if you think an all time great QB like Elway hasn't noticed or at least wouldn't consider the issue of Kirk playing very poorly in some really important must win games then I have a bridge you might be interested in.

 

Agree, it's all guess work.  Here's why I think Denver could be likely:

 

1.  Some in the Denver media said Elway has had enough playing the crapshoot in the draft at QB  Osweiller, Lynch, Siemian.  He wants an established guy.

2.  Elway and now Kubiak are in the FO.  I've read Kubiak and Shanny are super close.  Shanny worships Kirk.  I'd think they'd trust their old coach's opinion.

3.  Looks like they are trying to move Talib for money reasons.  Starting to clear some cap room?

4.  I know Kirk respects Shanny a ton.  He said he was the coach he respects the most in a forum I attended where Kirk spoke years ago.  Shanny would likely sell him on the culture in Denver.

5.  I think there is something about Kirk being willing to do a cap friendly deal for another team, just not the Redskins -- as his media pal Grant Paulsen said. 

6.  It could be that they fell in love with a player in this draft but how do they know they get that guy?

 

The counter to this: I don't think it would be lost on Dan-Bruce that they could be setting up Shanny for the last laugh on Kirk.   Denver was in on Bradford but got outbid by Minny in 2016 so clearly they like him.  Now, they likely could get Bradford without giving up trade capital.   

 

As for the Alex Smith stuff mentioned on the thread.  At least from what I read the Chiefs want at least a 2nd rounder.  The dude still isn't cheap salary wise, he's pushing 35 and you only got him for one year under contract.  I doubt that's what Denver has in mind an expensive stop gap.  But you never know.  Got doubts about an intra-division trade but Andy did it before and we were the victims.   I'd guess the odds are that its Kirk versus Bradford or Keenum.

 

But so many things can happen still that put a monkey wrench in everything.  Back to Alex Smith the team that might pull the trigger according to Laconfora are the Browns.  Dorsey obviously knows him well.  They have a boatload of picks so giving up a 2nd rounder is no biggie to them.  Then they take a young QB at #4.

[FrFan]

 

Already have his home there: Cousins Apartments 1675 Gilpin St, Denver, CO 80218 

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, FrFan said:

 

Already have his home there: Cousins Apartments 1675 Gilpin St, Denver, CO 80218 

 

if you follow some of the responses to that tweet like the tweet I post below, if that goes down in that way it would drive me nuts.  Denver gets their man and heck they hold their pick and get a kings ransom for the #5 pick.  One article I read even mentioned the Redskins in that case being one of the desperate teams possibly looking to trade up.  Now, I doubt it goes down like that but on the off chance it did, I'd go nuts. 

 

Bobby Fields‏ @bobsamkara Jan 26

More

Replying to @Skotty_Payne @OptimumScouting

We should hope they sign Cousins. Teams will be mortgaging their draft future to trade up to #5 to get the best QB left by then. Denver could rebuild for years to come by trading the pick.

[skinfan2k]

Should i start anothr thread? I want to ask fans what is the mininum compenstation they would take for Kirk?

[FrFan]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

if you follow some of the responses to that tweet like the tweet I post below, if that goes down in that way it would drive me nuts.  Denver gets their man and heck they hold their pick and get a kings ransom for the #5 pick.  One article I read even mentioned the Redskins in that case being one of the desperate teams possibly looking to trade up.  Now, I doubt it goes down like that but on the off chance it did, I'd go nuts. 

 

Bobby Fields‏ @bobsamkara Jan 26

More

Replying to @Skotty_Payne @OptimumScouting

We should hope they sign Cousins. Teams will be mortgaging their draft future to trade up to #5 to get the best QB left by then. Denver could rebuild for years to come by trading the pick.

In this case we could hope Mark White would be the hidden QB gem of this draft, eventhough Jessica McCloughan likes Rudolph Mason

FA is going to be hectic !

[bobandweave]

27 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

Should i start anothr thread? I want to ask fans what is the mininum compenstation they would take for Kirk?

 

[goskins10]

35 minutes ago, FrFan said:

Edit

 

Already have his home there: Cousins Apartments 1675 Gilpin St, Denver, CO 80218 

 

Not directed at you at all, just using your post as a launching point.

 

Let's see, so far he absolutely going to the Jets, the Broncos, AND Cleveland with Jacksonville, Miami, Arizona and any other QB needy team "in the mix." Sorry, but I see most of this as smoke and mirrors. Not to defend the FO because it's their own doing. But the Redskins used to be used as leverage for every FA about to hit free agency as it generally raised their asking price even if the player was no where on the Redskins wish list, like not even a mention. Now every team needing a QB is being mentioned as a "very likely" destination. What a complete cluster****!!

 

I am so over the whole thing. Pay him, don't pay him, trade him don't trade him. At this point I am about at the point where I just don't care other than I want to get past this stupid drama! It's the only thing Dan Snyder is good at besides ripping people off, creating drama for no reason. This could have been so simple. But no. It as to be all this garbage.  

 

In the end if they do not sign Kirk, they will lose a lot of the fan base. And not all because they support Kirk that much. But because they are tired of the organization making the absolute worst decision whenever it really counts and creating drama when all we want to do is watch football. it's all just so exhausting!!  

 

To Bruce Allen if you read this - which I doubt - but just in case - FIGURE IT OUT!!!  As my dad used to say - **** or get off the pot!! 

[mistertim]

26 minutes ago, FrFan said:

In this case we could hope Mark White would be the hidden QB gem of this draft, eventhough Jessica McCloughan likes Rudolph Mason

FA is going to be hectic !

 

If we got fleeced that bad I would also lose my ****. We're ALWAYS on the losing end of that stuff. Meanwhile the Eagles got a 1st rounder for freaking Bradford. 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Why is everyone supposed to be "mortgaging the future" to trade up with Denver at #5? Is there a reason they don't want to trade up with Indy or Cleveland instead? Is there a QB who is exactly good enough to "mortgage" yourself for at #5, but isn't quite worthy of being the 3 or 4 pick?

1 hour ago, FrFan said:

In this case we could hope Mark White would be the hidden QB gem of this draft, eventhough Jessica McCloughan likes Rudolph Mason

FA is going to be hectic !

Maybe we could draft Allen Josephson or Mayfield the Baker instead.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, goskins10 said:

 

I am so over the whole thing. Pay him, don't pay him, trade him don't trade him. At this point I am about at the point where I just don't care other than I want to get past this stupid drama! It's the only thing Dan Snyder is good at besides ripping people off, creating drama for no reason. This could have been so simple. But no. It as to be all this garbage.  

 

To Bruce Allen if you read this - which I doubt - but just in case - FIGURE IT OUT!!!  As my dad used to say - **** or get off the pot!! 

 

I am close to being over this.  I am over being optimistic about it happening.  Hey maybe that's a good sign -- that would fit Sheehan's smell test, once the odds seemed stacked the other way, that's when you go against the crowd. 

 

My thing now is if Kirk is gone what would I want to see happen.  I would hate trading for a stop gap starter.   I'd want to go for someone in this draft that hopefully Jay loves.  So if they in that case can get something for Kirk and that leverages their way to get that guy or is used to upgrade the roster -- that's what I'd want in that case.  At the moment to me it seems perfectly plausible that they lose Kirk for nothing -- that's what I'd love to avoid.  If it could go my way, of course, I'd want Kirk here.  That's my favorite option by a mile.  But if that's out, at least get something for him.

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

If we got fleeced that bad I would also lose my ****. We're ALWAYS on the losing end of that stuff. Meanwhile the Eagles got a 1st rounder for freaking Bradford. 

 

Eagles fleeced the Dolphins years back for AJ Feeley.   Ditto Kolb.  Ditto McNab. Ditto Bradford.  Then, as I said I am listening to a national football show speculating about whether the Eagles can get a #1 for Foles this off season.  Unlikely that happens.  But imagine if Roseman strikes again and gets a haul for Foles.

 

I am pessimistic about Kirk coming back.  And I put that squarely on the FO.  The only thing they can do IMO to save face a little is by getting some trade value but if they don't what an epic disaster.   If it ends up they couldn't do it because his cap figure is too high and or the market is too robust with other options -- then they should have done this last season if they thought it would end this way.

 

The problem though here with compensation is you got to both take a cap hit and give up a high pick, that's quite a drill.  That's why I think getting Denver's #5 or whatever teams first round pick outright might be unrealistic.  Might have to be a swap of first round picks or maybe a 2nd rounder.  Who knows. 

 

I do think its totally possible they lose him for nothing.   If I had to bet on something -- that would be my bet.  They get nada or a third round comp in 2019 which is close enough to nada.   

[Voice_of_Reason]

5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Judging by the insiders on 106.7 talking today -- odds are good that both Zach and Kirk are gone.    If so it's going to be one heck of a wild FA season I gather.

Or the FO honest to God think that McCoy is good enough, Jay’s system with Doctson, Grant and Crowder, with Reed healthy is fine, Perime and the rest of the guys are good enough at RB, Vigil (or whatever his name is) can replace Brown, so we’re essentially all set.

 

my guess, that’s their thought process. 

 

I think they’re wrong.  We’ll see.

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Or the FO honest to God think that McCoy is good enough, Jay’s system with Doctson, Grant and Crowder, with Reed healthy is fine, Perime and the rest of the guys are good enough at RB, Vigil (or whatever his name is) can replace Brown, so we’re essentially all set.

 

my guess, that’s their thought process. 

 

I think they’re wrong.  We’ll see.

 

 

Even if so, Colt is going to be 32 next season, injury prone dude, on the last year of the contract.  Clearly, not the future.  Albert Breer said last year he heard on good authority, Glennon was the backup plan if they decided to cut Kirk loose.  Based on that, I'd presume they aren't just going to ride with Colt.   But agree, will see. 

 

Craig Hoffman said recently he heard that there is divide in the FO about Colt.  That's funny considering that's the same thing said last off season about Kirk.  Wonder if they find a QB where everyone is on the same page over there.

[goskins10]

17 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I am close to being over this.  I am over being optimistic about it happening.  Hey maybe that's a good sign -- that would fit Sheehan's smell test, once the odds seemed stacked the other way, that's when you go against the crowd. 

 

My thing now is if Kirk is gone what would I want to see happen.  I would hate trading for a stop gap starter.   I'd want to go for someone in this draft that hopefully Jay loves.  So if they in that case can get something for Kirk and that leverages their way to get that guy or is used to upgrade the roster -- that's what I'd want in that case.  At the moment to me it seems perfectly plausible that they lose Kirk for nothing -- that's what I'd love to avoid.  If it could go my way, of course, I'd want Kirk here.  That's my favorite option by a mile.  But if that's out, at least get something for him.

 

 

Edit

 

 

If Kirk is gone - which is clearly not my first choice, I have said I am completely against trading for anyone. Roll with Colt this year and draft a QB if there is one Jay really likes. If not just wait till next year. It's likely our pick will be higher so we will have a better selection of QBs. If you let Kirk go you are looking for a long term solution - of which Colt McCoy is decidedly not!  Don't be in a a rush and just get someone to get someone. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Even if so, Colt is going to be 32 next season, injury prone dude, on the last year of the contract.  Clearly, not the future.  Albert Breer said last year he heard on good authority, Glennon was the backup plan if they decided to cut Kirk loose.  Based on that, I'd presume they aren't just going to ride with Colt.   But agree, will see. 

 

Craig Hoffman said recently he heard that there is divide in the FO about Colt.  That's funny considering that's the same thing said last off season about Kirk.  Wonder if they find a QB where everyone is on the same page over there.

The FO divide, in my opinion, is pointless because Colt is on the roster and Jay loves Colt so he’s going to get the first chance to play.

 

it would be different if there was a contract situation with Colt.

 

Even if they sign this years version of Glennon, 90% chance Colt starts anyway.

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The FO divide, in my opinion, is pointless because Colt is on the roster and Jay loves Colt so he’s going to get the first chance to play.

 

it would be different if there was a contract situation with Colt.

 

Even if they sign this years version of Glennon, 90% chance Colt starts anyway.

 

Maybe I missed something but where is this "Jay loves Colt" stuff coming from? Jay typically talks well of his players. But I have not seen him overly effusive of Colt. Is he supposed to say, well we know Colt is not even average and really basically sucks but he is a nice guy so we keep him around? Of course they have confidence in him as a backup but that's all he is. It's not like they opened the QB competition or even paid his huge money. Every single HC in the NFL will say they have confidence in their back-up but that does not mean they want them as starters. 

 

With all due respect I think you are projecting here because you don't like Jay. Having said that if you have something specific that shows Jay being overly effusive in his praise for Colt I would be interested in seeing it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

If Kirk is gone - which is clearly not my first choice, I have said I am completely against trading for anyone. Roll with Colt this year and draft a QB if there is one Jay really likes. If not just wait till next year. It's likely our pick will be higher so we will have a better selection of QBs. If you let Kirk go you are looking for a long term solution - of which Colt McCoy is decidedly not!  Don't be in a a rush and just get someone to get someone. 

 

It seems at least in theory this might be the draft to get the guy.   I am no QB expert.  But at least as for buzz, you got more in this draft than I can recall in a long time.   But I agree with your point, don't force a pick.

 

As Tandler I noticed said on twitter, this FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt where we should trust that they will get this right. 

 

My thought is if they are going to be bold and to me letting your franchise QB walk out the door -- that's mega bold -- then just stick with bold, go for the kill if there is a guy you love in the draft even if that means trading up.  Live by the sword, die by the sword. 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

If Kirk goes, I'm all for sucking with Colt rather than trade picks for a stop gap.  

 

While I'm not big on Bruce, I don't think for a second he's dumb enough to believe they can actually win with him.  More importantly, there will be apathy among the fan base with the exit of Kirk + rolling with Colt, they will absolutely try to make a splash by trading up in the draft.  Good times.

[goskins10]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

It seems at least in theory this might be the draft to get the guy.   I am no QB expert.  But at least as for buzz, you got more in this draft than I can recall in a long time.   But I agree with your point, don't force a pick.

 

As Tandler I noticed said on twitter, this FO hasn't earned the benefit of the doubt where we should trust that they will get this right. 

 

My thought is if they are going to be bold and to me letting your franchise QB walk out the door -- that's mega bold -- then just stick with bold, go for the kill if there is a guy you love in the draft even if that means trading up.

 

 

 

i believe we are about in the same place. I agree, this is a good QB draft. If their guy is there, by all means take him.

 

But so many things happen in a draft. So where we differ a little is I would hate for them to give up another ransom for a QB. I just do not want them to give up any draft picks at all. It's along the same lines as the trust issue. When you trade those picks you have to be near flawless with the picks you do have. I just not sure this FO is up to that task (and yes I am trying to be kind in my assessment.) 

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If Kirk goes, I'm all for sucking with Colt rather than trade picks for a stop gap.  

 

While I'm not big on Bruce, I don't think for a second he's dumb enough to believe they can actually win with him.  More importantly, there will be apathy among the fan base with the exit of Kirk + rolling with Colt, they will absolutely try to make a splash by trading up in the draft.  Good times.

 

You win the sad but true award for the day!! I want to read this and say - no way! C'mon they will not make the same mistake twice will they? But then I realize who we are talking about and it just follows the same pattern of ineptness and poor decision making that has plagued this team since the day Dan Snyder bought them. 

 

As you so aptly put it - Good Times! 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If Kirk goes, I'm all for sucking with Colt rather than trade picks for a stop gap.  

 

While I'm not big on Bruce, I don't think for a second he's dumb enough to believe they can actually win with him.  More importantly, there will be apathy among the fan base with the exit of Kirk + rolling with Colt, they will absolutely try to make a splash by trading up in the draft.  Good times.

 

Trading a pick for any veteran is gag worthy IMO in the context of letting Kirk go.  You get older at the position and lose draft picks -- could it get much worse than that?

 

Your 2nd point about a splash.  I agree with it 100%.  I know its a tough point to make on a thread where you get 10 or so people who actively are rooting for Kirk to walk.  So the vibe feels mixed on Kirk here.  But when you look at the polls done on this -- its overwhelmingly in favor of keeping Kirk and Bruce's numbers are in the gutter.   I'd be stunned if they both let Kirk go and went for a meh sounding Plan B. 

 

I think Czaben nailed it, they need to shoot for Mayfield or some other shiny tool to distract fans with.   I just don't know if a Rudolph, Mike White in the draft or Sam Bradford achieves this.

 

I said this on the draft thread.  IMO the ouster of Scot and replacing him with basically a more powerful Bruce and Doug has put them in a PR pickle.  It clearly hasn't sold as something most of the fanbase digs or trusts (judging by radio polls, comments here, talk radio).  According to Cooley even Bruce recognizes he isn't liked by the fan base.   So good luck selling both Kirk leaving and a meh sounding Plan B.  If they do that and it fails -- if they thought their TV ratings and fan attendance was sagging in 2017 then 2018 would likely take that to a new low.  

 

I think Bruce has shown he can be incompetent and obtuse.  But I don't think he's dumb.  I think they recognize this.  And I do think it will effect their next move.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

But so many things happen in a draft. So where we differ a little is I would hate for them to give up another ransom for a QB. I just do not want them to give up any draft picks at all. It's along the same lines as the trust issue. When you trade those picks you have to be near flawless with the picks you do have. I just not sure this FO is up to that task (and yes I am trying to be kind in my assessment.) 

 

 

I get your point and I agree with it in theory.  But my take if they want to take us on that nutty ride -- just finish the journey.  Just go with their gut.  I'd put money that they really really want a sexy top guy in the draft -- if so just finish that vision and see where it goes.  I agree it probably doesn't go well. 

 

 

 

[c slag]

Any truth to the rumors that Kirk and Colt don't particularly care for one another on a personal level and that this has an effect on Kirk's decision? 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The FO divide, in my opinion, is pointless because Colt is on the roster and Jay loves Colt so he’s going to get the first chance to play.

 

it would be different if there was a contract situation with Colt.

 

Even if they sign this years version of Glennon, 90% chance Colt starts anyway.

 

Colt is the obvious bet at the moment I agree.   I am not so sure that Dan's PR instincts impinge on this somehow, though.  I presume they realize how flat it comes off to let Kirk go and sell Colt as the guy.   And I don't think Dan has lost the desire to kick in with a PR splash.  Here we are talking about the reverse of a splash -- my prediction is that will be too much for Dan to take.  Will see.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, c slag said:

Any truth to the rumors that Kirk and Colt don't particularly care for one another on a personal level and that this has an effect on Kirk's decision? 

I haven't heard much on that other than a random tweet or something.  I can't begin to imagine Kirk feels threatened by Colt in any capacity.  I'm sure he gets a chuckle out of the anonymous "Some in Redskins FO believe they can get the same production out of McCoy" blurbs like I do.

[mistertim]

52 minutes ago, c slag said:

Any truth to the rumors that Kirk and Colt don't particularly care for one another on a personal level and that this has an effect on Kirk's decision? 

 

I heard it was because God literally sent a burning bush to negotiate a contract on Colt's behalf but Kirk just got a shrubbery with a "good luck" note attached and he was jealous.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, c slag said:

Any truth to the rumors that Kirk and Colt don't particularly care for one another on a personal level and that this has an effect on Kirk's decision? 

 

Not from anything I have seen or heard. Can you please share where those rumors are coming from? Not challenging you, just interested in seeing the source. Most of these things come from media wannabes just trying to get clicks.