Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[TheBlueIndian]

11 hours ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

In terms of compensation for me its 1st this year at minimum + 1 (2-4th rd pick) this year and I still think that’s a bargain for a starting qb..

I honestly don't understand this.....wouldn't the time to do this have been last year when he was under a more reasonable cap number. 

How does this work exactly ?

Do we work out a sign and trade ?

Why would Denver or Kirk agree to that ?

 

At this point I just want it over with. Offer Kirk something reasonable like the Stafford deal with a (+) adjustment. Kirk already knows he can get some team to pay a lot more than we ever can, or are willing to, so what's the point. He doesn't need to test the market, he already knows what it is....a boatload of money, more than he has proven to be worth, and that's just the economics of todays NFL.  Unfortunately for the franchise who has paid 50 M over the last two seasons we lose.

 

You win Kirk !. and hardly anyone can blame you for wanting to get the hell out of town with the hurricane of dookie that is constantly swirling over this FO.

 

I am intrigued however in how we can get compensation other than the 3rd rounder in 2019 although if that were possible smart money says we screw that up too.

 

 

[markmills67]

I would try and swap 1st round picks with the Broncos and get there 2nd round pick also. Might not get it but would be great if we could get this trade.

 

HTTR 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 hours ago, FrFan said:

I believe it's like politics, egomania and impatience are the main reasons why some teams act like this. Witnessing guys like Keenum who had 9TD and 11INT last year and goes 22-7 this year doesn't help. As a matter of fact Kirk never won a playoff game, but I think those teams believe he can with a different cast and coaching staff around him. In the end there will always be a dummy willing to pull the trigger.

Welcome to the land of make believe !

 

I think we are in the land of make believe if we start thinking Bruce and this FO are just smarter than these teams -- Bruce > Dorsey.  Bruce > Elway.  Bruce > S. Keim.  We are talking about Bruce being smarter than some of the GMs with the best reps in the league?  

 

The land of make believe IMO is judging a top 10 QB, one of the highest QBR ratings combined in the last three years, etc.  Just about a given for a 65% plus completion rate with 4000 plus yards, good TD-INT ratio, the whole 9 yards and strangely blaming him for making the playoffs for just once in a 3 year span -- as if 3 seasons is some long career and acting like having one of the worst defenses in the league during that span is incidental at best to the team's inability to get over the hump. 

 

But yeah I didn't think anyone here would pull the trigger on the point that yeah our FO - and Kirk's critics are just more with it than these other teams.  But OK. To each their own. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

We must remember that if no cousin's and we go with McCoy we will have $52m in cap space available.  Andrew Norwell (G), Jarvis Landry(WR) and Bennie Logan (DT) Come to mind as Redskins targets if no cousin's. 

 

HTTR 

 

I don't think we'll go mad in FA either way. 

[Tsailand]

10 hours ago, bobandweave said:

Truth is Kirk on another teams win results does not mean that Kirk is right for this team. Kirk’s success on his new club doesn’t say anything about Kirk on this club. Some teams are just better fits for Kirk then others. Denver, Jacksonville, Cleveland are all better spots for Kirk then this club is

 

Bro, we're not talking about a linebacker who belongs in a different scheme, or a good RB on a team that has a all-Pro RB ahead of him.  This is a franchise QB just coming into his prime.  You build your offense around him, and sometimes your defense too.

 

Kirk is right for this team.  He's right for every team that doesn't already have a top 10 QB.

[markmills67]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

 

I don't think we'll go mad in FA either way. 

Was thinking from Allen's point of view (useless as we all know), he won't sign cousin's to a LTD but he will sign other teams FA's. 

 

HTTR 

[Taylor 36]

3 hours ago, markmills67 said:

We must remember that if no cousin's and we go with McCoy we will have $52m in cap space available.  Andrew Norwell (G), Jarvis Landry(WR) and Bennie Logan (DT) Come to mind as Redskins targets if no cousin's. 

 

HTTR 

There is no way any decent WR or RB or G for that matter is signing here in FA if Cousins is gone and we are starting McCoy.  The ONLY chance we'd have is to way overspend to get them here, which would go against cheap ass Bruce's miser MO, and would be such a complete idiotic move considering we wouldn't have ponied up for our own franchise QB.

[bobandweave]

1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

 

Bro, we're not talking about a linebacker who belongs in a different scheme, or a good RB on a team that has a all-Pro RB ahead of him.  This is a franchise QB just coming into his prime.  You build your offense around him, and sometimes your defense too.

 

Kirk is right for this team.  He's right for every team that doesn't already have a top 10 QB.

 

Bro pretending that the Redskins are on equal footing as an overall team with the Jaguars of the world is not accurate. Pretending that the Redskins offense is as good as the Broncos offense is also not right. Each of these teams have advantages that the Redskins do not. 

 

Insert Kirk Cousins into either of these teams would you expect him to go 

 

9-7

8-8

7-9

 

Like he’s done here? Maybe you do think that he will have similar records there as he did here but I don’t. In fact I would go as far as to say if the Jaguars had played Kirk instead of Blake Bortles  they would be in the Super Bowl this year.

 

Kirk being a good QB isn’t a question to me or anyone that thinks this teams not ready to take on the highest priced contract in the league. We’ve seen what the Redskins can do with Kirk which is not much at all in the grand scheme of things. If the Redskins sign him at that price not ready for what’s to come as a result then what should the expectations be? More of the same imo because a decision like that comes with consequences you aren’t considering.

 

Those other teams built themselves up to win now with a QB. The Redskins have not done that. On those other teams Kirk should do better then what he’s done here the past three seasons. Expecting to dump 20% of the teams salary cap into him only means less building around him to make the team competitive. It’s not that I’m not pro Kirk his asking price and how long it will take to get this team to the Denver offense or Jaguar Defensive level to me says they haven’t a clue how other teams are building winners today 

[markmills67]

30 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

There is no way any decent WR or RB or G for that matter is signing here in FA if Cousins is gone and we are starting McCoy.  The ONLY chance we'd have is to way overspend to get them here, which would go against cheap ass Bruce's miser MO, and would be such a complete idiotic move considering we wouldn't have ponied up for our own franchise QB.

Cousin's twice, Norman goes against that theory slightly, but getting big name FA's is something I can see Allen doing to try and please the Skins fanbase if we lose cousin's. 

 

 

[Taylor 36]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

Cousin's twice, Norman goes against that theory slightly, but getting big name FA's is something I can see Allen doing to try and please the Skins fanbase if we lose cousin's. 

 

 

It doesn't go against that theory at all.  Don't forget that when Norman signed here, one of the reasons he gave was that he believed with Cousins we were moving in the right direction to be a winner.

[skinny21]

I think losing Cousins may simply dilute the FA pool we have to draw on.  We can still sign the FAs looking for a paycheck/work, but we'll likely lose the ability to sign guys chasing a Super Bowl.  

[beachboy757]

How can people say the Browns, Broncos, and Jags are all SB contenders with Kirk while the Redskins would remain average? That is very much a personal opinion because the Browns and Broncos are NOT SB teams. The Broncos have lost good players in FA since the SB win and have been going backward since and the Browns are 1-32 over the past two seasons.  I am absolutely mind blown at the amount of praise and envy our fans have for Browns. I just don't get it!

 

The Jags could be nice with Kirk but lets see how they do when the AFCS is more healthy, more competitive, and when they have to face teams like Chiefs or Patriots in the regular season vs the bottom feeders of the AFC before we are handing then SB championships.

 

The Skins need Cousins, a RB and a way to stop the run and they could compete with any team. 

[nonniey]

9 hours ago, markmills67 said:

We must remember that if no cousin's and we go with McCoy we will have $52m in cap space available.  Andrew Norwell (G), Jarvis Landry(WR) and Bennie Logan (DT) Come to mind as Redskins targets if no cousin's. 

 

HTTR 

Problem is going off in free agency is only wise if you are making a move to win now. Lose Cousins and we're back to a rebuilding mode and in fact we should be unloading our older good players for future picks in such a situation not paying through the nose for other older players. 

[mistertim]

34 minutes ago, beachboy757 said:

How can people say the Browns, Broncos, and Jags are all SB contenders with Kirk while the Redskins would remain average? That is very much a personal opinion because the Browns and Broncos are NOT SB teams. The Broncos have lost good players in FA since the SB win and have been going backward since and the Browns are 1-32 over the past two seasons.  I am absolutely mind blown at the amount of praise and envy our fans have for Browns. I just don't get it!

 

The Jags could be nice with Kirk but lets see how they do when the AFCS is more healthy, more competitive, and when they have to face teams like Chiefs or Jets in the regular season vs the bottom feeders of the AFC before we are handing then SB championships.

 

The Skins need Cousins, a RB and a way to stop the run and they could compete with any team. 

 

The Jags I can see because they already have such a loaded team outside of QB. Bortles is completely mediocre but he isn't as awful as some make him out to be. If they went from "mediocre" QB play (Bortles) to "good" QB play (Kirk) it might help take them that extra step but it's impossible to say for sure. The question there is whether they think the jump from a rookie contract for a "meh" QB to the biggest contract in NFL history for Kirk is commensurate with the talent increase from one to the other, but that just goes back to what the Jags truly think of Kirk, which nobody really knows for sure.

 

But yeah, Browns and Broncos is a bit much. We've seen this story from the Browns before "new FO, tons of draft picks, they could be legit now" but does anyone honestly think that anything short of absolutely nailing this draft + Tom Brady would propel them from 1-31 over the past two seasons to a SB run within the next two seasons? And yeah the Broncos not only have lost guys in FA since the SB win, but they also have a pretty nasty cap situation. The only way i could see them landing Kirk is a massively backloaded contract which is exactly what Kirk apparently doesn't want, as well as either cutting other good players or trying to get a bunch of other players to restructure. Their SB window with their current defense and cast is rapidly closing so they would have to be absolutely sure that Kirk would take them there within the next 2 years or it wouldn't be worth it.

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, beachboy757 said:

How can people say the Browns, Broncos, and Jags are all SB contenders with Kirk while the Redskins would remain average? 

It's funny because I was thinking about this very thing. I asked myself if we re-sign Kirk what will the record next year be? My answer right now is 8-8 when I'm feeling good and 6-10 when I'm not.

I don't think signing Kirk to a long term deal pays immediate dividends. In fact, I could see it causing us to regress in the short term because so many areas of the team could no longer be addressed.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

It's funny because I was thinking about this very thing. I asked myself if we re-sign Kirk what will the record next year be? My answer right now is 8-8 when I'm feeling good and 6-10 when I'm not.

I don't think signing Kirk to a long term deal pays immediate dividends. In fact, I could see it causing us to regress in the short term because so many areas of the team could no longer be addressed.

 

They'd have to really do a lousy job in this draft if it goes down that way.    They are in a good spot to land a marquee defender at 13 (Vea, R. Jones, Payne, etc)  Their spot in the 2nd round is also likely good to land a good running back (R. Penny, S. Michel, R. Jones, etc)

 

Bruce also would have to be full of nonsense about 23 guys coming off of injury alone makes this a better roster.  On multiple things, I don't agree with Bruce.   On this one, I do agree.  I get his point.  As Chris Simms said the other day on 106.7 man you guys had the most injuries in the league, should be better next year. 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

We went 7-9 this year with a bunch of scabs.  Like SIP, I'm not big on Bruce or what he has to say, but he's not wrong about the amount of contributors that will be returning next season.  I can't for the life of me see where they could end up with a worse record with Kirk as starter.

[Skinsinparadise]

23 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

We went 7-9 this year with a bunch of scabs.  Like SIP, I'm not big on Bruce or what he has to say, but he's not wrong about the amount of contributors that will be returning next season.  I can't for the life of me see where they could end up with a worse record with Kirk as starter.

 

I still saved for my own amusement Skip Bayless' segment after the Redskins played the Chiefs that they have played the best ball in the NFL to that point.    Jonathan Allen and Mason Foster's injury in particular IMO exposed their lack of depth at D line.  The combination of not having Allen's run stopping ability and losing Foster behind him seemed to be a mega game changer.   We can likely fix that with drafting a guy like Vea or Payne at 13.

 

The other thing was no Jordan Reed for most of the season.  The offense was still good with just the one weapon of Chris Thompson.  When Thompson got hurt that was too much to bear for the offense.   In the 2nd round, you likely can land a speedy RB like Jones to ensure the team doesn't fall off a cliff with an injury like that again. 

 

That to me is one of the sadder components of letting Kirk go.  This team IMO is on the verge of taking the next step.  You dump Kirk you are starting over.  The whole Kirk can't carry a team is nonsense.  He pretty much came close to doing just that.  The Saints game really took them out of the season.   The defense collapsed and the offense broke once Thompson got hurt.   But I don't accept the premise that a QB translates to both offense and defense.   This isn't basketball.  But Kirk did plenty this year to carry the offense.

 

Sadly, I was at that game and saw it all go down in NO.  But i left the game optimistic about the future.  Shows how fickle John Riggins is since he's been all over the map on Kirk and the team but I recall what he said after that game -- he came out of it with a strong feeling that the Redskins will be in the Superbowl within 2 seasons.

[CommanderDOOM]

1 hour ago, Burgold said:

...I don't think signing Kirk to a long term deal pays immediate dividends. In fact, I could see it causing us to regress....

 

No. No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no.

If we sign Kirk we're a sure shot to nail the draft this year and next. This front office has flipped the script and now can build a team with the best of them. Before the contract is up we'll be flirting with Lombardi.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

No. No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no.

If we sign Kirk we're a sure shot to nail the draft this year and next. This front office has flipped the script and now can build a team with the best of them. Before the contract is up we'll be flirting with Lombardi.

 

You got the front office flipped the script premise right.  

 

A. The FO flipped the script.  Since 1989 they've swung and missed with every QB they've drafted sans Kirk.  But yeah trust them, this time they will get it right and fast!     30 years flies, everyone should relax! 

 

B.  The FO flipped the script.  They will be the team in the NFL to break the mold on the QB position.  The Redskins FO will show the Trent Dilfer approach is the new way to win in the NFL.  Paying market deals to franchise QBs is for losers!    When has the Redskins FO not being ahead of the curve?  That's been the way here under Dan's reign, pioneers -- they are always a step ahead of the curve, smarter than the rest of the NFL. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

20 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

No. No,no,no,no,no,no,no,no.

If we sign Kirk we're a sure shot to nail the draft this year and next. This front office has flipped the script and now can build a team with the best of them. Before the contract is up we'll be flirting with Lombardi.

Where this fails me is you admit the FO leaves something to be desired, yet you believe they are better off without a QB.  

 

I can see wanting Kirk to walk as a means to see Allen get canned.  But even then, Dan has to hire a replacement.  There is nothing to suggest he'd go about that the right way.  Unfortunately, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.

[Veryoldschool]

On 1/26/2018 at 8:18 AM, bedlamVR said:

I think what is interesting is the fact that Cousins blossomed in a very QB friendly system - McVay made Goff into a MVP candidate; Gruden made people believe in Dalton - I kind of see what GMSM said - Kirk is a very good QB - just not a special QB and if you want to go far you have to think long and hard if you want to saddle your team with an 'Ok' talent or make that painful decision to walk away and start again. 

 

GMSM wanted to sign him in 2015 but at a bargain rate - 

 

The best move now is to plan for the future and have a placeholder Vet for a year whether that is Cousins OR someone else is another question 

 

Did Griffin find it a QB friendly system?  It's a WCO like so many teams.

 

Maybe you'll recognize Kirk's talent when he is in the playoffs leading a balanced team next season, or maybe you'll have some other backhanded compliments for him.

[RWJ]

13 hours ago, markmills67 said:

I would try and swap 1st round picks with the Broncos and get there 2nd round pick also. Might not get it but would be great if we could get this trade.

 

HTTR 

Best I think we can do is get the #4, 5 or 6 from (Browns, Broncos or Jets) and hope to keep our #13 so we can use it on a OG or DT or LB etc..

[Gibbit]

5 hours ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Did Griffin find it a QB friendly system?  It's a WCO like so many teams.

 

Maybe you'll recognize Kirk's talent when he is in the playoffs leading a balanced team next season, or maybe you'll have some other backhanded compliments for him.

griffin wasn't a qb, hes a track star

 

Like the guy said Kirk blossomed in the system, because he sure as hell didn't come on like a freight train......more like a timid flower. At least he stunk in his last game as a skin....so I can remember him with a smile

 

...I'm just prepping though

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

12 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

We went 7-9 this year with a bunch of scabs.  Like SIP, I'm not big on Bruce or what he has to say, but he's not wrong about the amount of contributors that will be returning next season.  I can't for the life of me see where they could end up with a worse record with Kirk as starter.

I think if they’re not careful the defense has a chance to step backwards with the defections of possibly Zach Brown and Bree.  I know they have DB depth, so maybe that’s not a huge issue, but it remains to be seen.  Getting Foster back is great, but if they let Brown go and don’t replace him with a really athletic ILB, that’s a problem.  

 

On offense, they have to upgrade the skill position players.  Period.  They need more than CT coming off of a broken leg as a weapon. 

 

I dont think you you can count on Reed.  I advocated just moving on from him entirely, but if you’re not going to do that, then you need to address TE anyway because his track record shows he won’t be available.  

 

They need a starting RB.  It was concerning to hear Gruden say he hopes the starter is already on the team.  

 

They need a starting #1 WR.  They also need a #2 WR.  It was concerning to hear Gruden say “we will do everything we can to bring [Grant]back” in answer to the “who’s the starter across from Doctson” question.

 

They don’t look like they want to make serious changes. 

 

After evaluating the entire coaching staff (which I don’t think actually happened) there are zero changes.

 

So I don’t know whether they will be worse.  But I don’t think they’re going to be a lot better.  Unless they are honest with themselves and really upgrade the roster.