Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Skinsinparadise]

The thing about Foles being the new model is interesting to me.  It alludes to the idea that you don't need a QB.  But actually it defeats that argument, too.  Going with the you are going to go far with a Jag at QB sort of implies you can win with mediocre play at QB.  But the thing is Foles played like an elite QB in the playoffs, especially against Minny.  So in his case its having an supposed Jag play like an elite QB.

 

So if the idea is you are going to sign some Jag off the street and he plays like Joe Montana in the playoffs.  Then, sign me up for that too!  The Kurt Warner model.  But what are the odds?  That's what we are talking about here.  Yeah if Colt McCoy has a transformation and plays like Carson Wentz, I agree its the way to go.  But if Colt McCoy plays like Colt McCoy -- I don't think we are sniffing the playoffs let alone we hit lighting in the bottle once we get there.

 

Eagles have a top 10 running game.   Top 5 defense according to football outsiders.  Good special teams too.    If we are banking on Bruce-Doug making up all this ground by downgrading at QB but offsetting that with MAJOR leaps in building a running game and an elite defense.  Yeah I agree the whole thing just might work.  But talk about putting pressure on this FO to create some magic.    This FA class will have to rival Beathard's early 80s draft class.

 

The thing is the conversation doesn't have to be this abstract.  Who are the FAs that turns around this team?  Ansah and Landry?  Landry and Logan and Crowell?  If you are signing the elite FAs - if you grab 2 of them you are likely around the 25 million range combined.   

 

One really good run stuffing guy and a really good receiver and a better running back albeit nothing special with Colt at the helm and Superbowl bound?  

 

[zoony]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The thing about Foles being the new model is interesting to me.  It alludes to the idea that you don't need a QB.  But actually it defeats that argument, too.  Going with the you are going to go far with a Jag at QB sort of implies you can win with mediocre play at QB.  But the thing is Foles played like an elite QB in the playoffs, especially against Minny.  So in his case its having an supposed Jag play like an elite QB.

 

This is the other tough argument about qbs.  Too many assume that players are static.  That a player cannot improve or have a great season.  Becuase yah, Foles truly has played lights out.

 

That said I think a big part of phillys success has been their pass protection, just like in dallas.  I think if you put foles or prescott behind the redskins week 10 Oline from last year, neither would look even serviceable.  Which gives me some hope for a colt mccoy type player, but also makes me wonder how cousins will look with weapons to throw to and an oline to block for him.  He had neither in 2017 and still put up gaudy numbers

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 minute ago, zoony said:

That said I think a big part of phillys success has been their pass protection, just like in dallas. 

The fact that both Philly and Dallas can run the ball also makes protecting the passer much easier, so it goes hand in hand. 

[zoony]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

The fact that both Philly and Dallas can run the ball also makes protecting the passer much easier, so it goes hand in hand. 

 

Well, yah.  Im imagining cousins being able to throw off play action on a team that can actually run the ball.  Iirc he was the number 1 rated passer in the league off play action in washington... on a team that cannot run the ball

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I know we all talk about Tom Brady as the G.O.A.T. and deservedly so, but the only QB that comes to mind that is capable of winning games without a running game is Rodgers.  What makes Tom and the Patriots so great is they do whatever it takes and have the ability to do that.  They can run the ball, dink and dunk and let it fly.  Rodgers on the other hand has led some Packers teams that cannot run the ball for squat.  Stafford is another QB that can't sniff postseason glory because his team has never been able to run the ball. 

[Area51]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

This really, really sucks. Big time.

 

- Yes...yes it does.

 

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

I think its safe to say that Cousins isn't loyal to the team, only loyal to money.

-Completely disagree on this one.  His agent offered a deal at 19 mil per year after 2015, which even at that time was VERY reasonable.  That was the same offseason where Brock Osweiler, who was a lot less proven as a QB, got 21 million guaranteed his first year with the Texans on a 4 year, 72 million dollar deal.  Also, the oft-injured and very pedestrian Bradford got a 2 year, 35 million dollar contract with 22 million guaranteed.  The offer Cousins' camp gave the Redskins was definitely not all about money.  

 

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

Its already known he needs an offense in order for him to succeed, he can't carry a team by himself; if he does go elsewhere, they better have an offense in place for him to succeed or their fan base will be all over him and their FO. He would be a nice shiny set of hub caps on a junk car.

 

 

- I'm thinking you meant to say defense here?  Because future HOF'er Drew Brees led the New Orleans Saints to 3 straight 7-9 seasons prior to this last year.  By that logic, even Brees can't carry a team by himself.

 

 

Bottom line is we haven't had a QB come close to the level of play since at least in my time of watching the Redskins(1990's-current).  Our Front Office, whether it was Bruce, Danny, or the great SMC, undervalued and underappreciated the stability Cousins brought to the position, and never even gave him full support that he's there guy.  

 

Going by all reports, it's safe to say that Cousins is all but gone.  The question is, is this Front Office savvy enough to get something worthwhile in return?  And do they have the right scouts to be able to find a suitable replacement?  Judging by the FO's history...I fear we get a mere 2nd or 3rd for Cousins, use it on Mason Rudolph, and have a disastrous 2018 season with a combination of McCoy and Rudolph behind center.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

This is the other tough argument about qbs.  Too many assume that players are static.  That a player cannot improve or have a great season.  Becuase yah, Foles truly has played lights out.

 

That said I think a big part of phillys success has been their pass protection, just like in dallas.  I think if you put foles or prescott behind the redskins week 10 Oline from last year, neither would look even serviceable.  Which gives me some hope for a colt mccoy type player, but also makes me wonder how cousins will look with weapons to throw to and an oline to block for him.  He had neither in 2017 and still put up gaudy numbers

 

Foles also has shown he can play great before.  He's had an up and down career but its not that shocking considering he had a franchise QB season before.  Colt on the other hand has never had a good statistical season.  Even here in his spot duty, Colt's QBR is abysmal.  He's a Brown QB reject of all things -- that sums it up for me.  And heck even if he finds his groove late in his career, he's as brittle potentially as Bradford.

 

The thing that gets me the most about some of the arguments is the idea that hey lets go get a great running game and defense as if its just about a mindset -- if you want it -- you make it happen.  I was just for humors sake looking through the FA list.  And frankly I don't see how you do it.  It's not the best FA crop for our defensive needs.   If you grab a top receiver -- 12-14 million.  you grab a top D lineman 8-10 million.  Maybe you add a minor player to that.  And there's Kirk's money saved.  Colt throwing to Landry and a run stuffer up the middle = championship?

 

People cite Jacksonville.  But they did it over years.  High draft picks at defense.  Multiple pickings in FA.  It didn't happen in one off season.  Dan going to patiently wait for 3 more drafts and FA classes?  I don't think so.  So this year if it is Colt or bust -- it needs to have some success for them to stick to the plan.

 

That's my one thing in all these conversations and that is some people discount the politics of the FO and impatience of Dan as irrelevant.  But if the past is prologue its very relevant.  Ditto that he has a fan base that by and large is burnt out and doesn't trust the current FO.  

 

Do people really think for example Kirk goes to Denver and they go 11-5 and head to the playoffs.  We go 6-10 and the fan base is chill?  And Dan is chill?  Cooley actually to some degree has Bruce's back and even he admits that its a disaster if it goes down like that.

 

For me, if they are going on this rodeo.  Just complete it and draft hopefully a young guy at QB they believe in.  It's their only hope.  They trade up and get Mayfield, Darnold or whomever they like and it pans out.  Then they save face.  

 

I just don't see a save face scenario any other way.  I actually like their chances better to finally draft the right QB in the draft than this whole we will get ourselves an elite defense drill.  I think they can create a good defense.  But an elite one like Minny or Jax?  I seriously doubt it.

 

If lets say they grab a young QB and he looks good even if their record is subpar it will buy them some time.  I think without Kirk their Plan B needs time.  And they won't get it any other way but going young at QB.

 

 

[Area51]

12 hours ago, JSSkinz said:

 

That and the boatload of free agents they signed.

 

 

It's really amazing what Roseman has been able to do in just two short years after Kelly left that team in shambles...he's managed to make chicken salad out of chicken **** lol.

[zoony]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me, if they are going on this rodeo.  Just complete it and draft hopefully a young guy at QB they believe in.  It's their only hope.  They trade up and get Mayfield, Darnold or whomever they like and it pans out.  Then they save face.  

 

So really, the only situation (where kirk leaves) that will keep me interested in this team is basically

1.  They get some value for kirk, swap of picks with denver sounds interesting

2.  They take a couple of promising qb prospects in the draft  (just like, ironically, our 2012 draft that everyone whined about when the team spent a midround pick on a qb from michigan state that didnt look very good.)

3.  Said qbs are able to sit entire first year, and colt plays entire first season.

4.  Skins get to pick high in the draft as a result of number 3 above in 2019, and start spending money on GOOD players in FA.  No more 1 year deals with lower tier guys who dont help anything, and take a valuable roster spot that could be used for a younger guy

[Fat Stupid Loser]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

One really good run stuffing guy and a really good receiver and a better running back albeit nothing special with Colt at the helm and Superbowl bound?  

 

No.  It really is simple. We are not going to get a better QB than Kirk. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If by some miracle, we do blindly stumble on to the next Kirk or better QB, we will have to pay him at some point. This is all sooooo freaking stupid. Quality QB play (not elite QB play) = Big Money. The FO and some fans have decided they don't want/need that. So back to the same 25 year cycle we go. I'll save a lot of money not buying Skins gear and Sunday ticket from now on.

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

So really, the only situation (where kirk leaves) that will keep me interested in this team is basically

1.  They get some value for kirk, swap of picks with denver sounds interesting

2.  They take a couple of promising qb prospects in the draft  (just like, ironically, our 2012 draft that everyone whined about when the team spent a midround pick on a qb from michigan state that didnt look very good.)

3.  Said qbs are able to sit entire first year, and colt plays entire first season.

4.  Skins get to pick high in the draft as a result of number 3 above in 2019, and start spending money on GOOD players in FA.  No more 1 year deals with lower tier guys who dont help anything, and take a valuable roster spot that could be used for a younger guy

 

I agree.  For me, it's definitely not my plan A.  But its the Plan B I could tolerate the most.

 

The only thing to me that would be digestible is that they love some young QB in this specific draft.   And I agree, its not crazy to go for 2.    If they aim high at QB, I am not adverse to that guy playing right away.

 

But yeah if they do some patchwork plan -- Bradford or trade for Alex Smith, etc -- it will make me gag even more.

 

If they go young at QB.  Don't get me wrong, I do think its more than conceivable they get it wrong in the draft.  As Doug Williams likes to say the draft is a crap shoot.    But at least it sets up an argument for hey look at this guy, he's young, good and cheap -- if they get it right.

10 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

No.  It really is simple. We are not going to get a better QB than Kirk. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. If by some miracle, we do blindly stumble on to the next Kirk or better QB, we will have to pay him at some point. This is all sooooo freaking stupid. Quality QB play (not elite QB play) = Big Money. The FO and some fans have decided they don't want/need that. So back to the same 25 year cycle we go. I'll save a lot of money not buying Skins gear and Sunday ticket from now on.

 

I agree 100% with all of this. I don't think it will end well.  I am just resigned to trying to come up with my favorite long shot scenarios as to escaping the dungeon on this front.

 

In other words, digesting all the anti-Kirk arguments for months -- which theory of theirs do I hate the least?  For me the one I hate the least is trying the lottery in the draft.  I hate it but hate it less than the other stuff.

[purbeast]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Craig Hoffman speaking on 106.7.  He was at the Senior Bowl and heard his own version of scuttlebutt, etc.

 

His take is this.  McCartney, Kirk's agent and Bruce have a strained relationship.   But, Kirk hasn't mentally checked out as for staying a Redskin.  He doesn't buy that Kirk is definitely headed to Denver.  

But ... but ... but it's abundantly clear that he's gone since people in this thread say so!!!!

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, purbeast said:

But ... but ... but it's abundantly clear that he's gone since people in this thread say so!!!!

 

Yeah Hoffman gave me some glimmer of hope.  He didn't see that in an overly optimistic way though -- his conversation turned from there to what could they get out of Denver in a trade.  Among the beat guys the most optimistic seems to be Finlay.  He thinks its plausible Kirk is back on a one year deal.

 

Albert Breer weeks back thought the Redskins let him hit FA and they have a fighting chance to land him.

 

But yeah back to Hoffman, his thing was Bruce and Kirk's agent aren't the best of buds.  Hence tension around the contract.  He also said others he spoke to in the Senior Bowl don't love Bruce, they see him as a politician.  Hoffman then played some devils advocate to the point by saying maybe its good that Bruce isn't loved by agents because it lends to them knowing they can't push Bruce around in a negotiation.

 

He said Kirk from what he gathered hasn't check out from being a Redskin but he didn't elaborate as to how he knows that.

[dckey]

Has there ever been a team signed a QB to a big deal and made the playoffs in the first 2 years of the deal, when most of the guaranteed is paid?  Only Brady, Rodgers and Big Ben!!!  I like Kirk but history has shown that the likely hood of winning when investing that much percentage of your cap results in mediocre to losing records.  Brees, Flacco, Stafford, Carr, Luck, Ryan, Dalton.  Seattle with Wilson if they're not able to keep that secondary.  All of these are on Kirk's level or just above and still did nothing when they signed there big deals.  If we had Alex Smith, ZB, Allen Robinson, Logan, and draft a Qb White in the second round.  This to me would be a better team than signing Kirk and maybe one other impact player.  This is not an indictment on Kirk, CAUSE I BELIEVE HE IS A GOOD QB!!!!  Just in how teams that win are built.

[wit33]

Must feel so safe to bolster an argument off of winning a Super Bowl or not lol. This logic is silly and serves no purpose for whatever side of an argument you’re on. 

 

Give yourself at bats and try to improve the team each year. Evaluate your team and don’t worry about history or what other teams do. 

 

Dont be romantic with the past. The NFL is ever evolving.

 

With that said, the Skins have no one in place to present a clear vision, so whatever. 

[kingdaddy]

11 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

This difference is that the eagles made well calculated moves instead of tripping over their feet.  And yes, not paying kirk may end up working out. But it’s not based on superior calculations and/or strategy. It’s because they mucked this up so bad the choice was made for them.  

Yep, I agree. You know what keeps creeping into my mind? I don't think JG would mind if KC walks. I'm not convinced that JG fully supports KC and I'm also not convinced that he doesn't think Colt could get the job done while a franchise rookie QB is being groomed. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Kirk doing radio row now

 

Jamey Eisenberg‏Verified account @JameyEisenberg 4m4 minutes ago

More

Kirk Cousins on free agency: Would prefer to be with the Redskins but knows it's out of his control. "We'll see what they choose to do and go from there," Cousins said.

[SkinsFTW]

Somehow I find no reason to believe that it's 100% out of his control.

[zoony]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The only thing to me that would be digestible is that they love some young QB in this specific draft.   And I agree, its not crazy to go for 2.    If they aim high at QB, I am not adverse to that guy playing right away.

 

I just dont think washington would ever have the required patience.  Scratch that, i know it.

 

If kirk would have been a first round pick and started his rookie year he would have been run out of washington.  He sucked.   That he got to sit on the bench and learn for 2 to 3 years was huge for him, though to this day i dont think he is smart enough to realize that being drafted by washington behind rgiii was the absolute greatest possible scenario for his pro development.

 

Its actually amazing he got a third chance at the starting job.

 

Point is, the number one determining factor of success at the qb position is work ethic.  It isnt arm strength or athletic ability.  Guys like brady and rodgers were blessed to be drafted into organizations where they were nurtured on the bench for years.  Even brees was traded for a ham sammich out of san diego because he didnt look very good early on.  I dont think peyton really started playing well until year 4, everyone forgets Mora throwing him under the bus for sucking early on.  However, they have to be WORKERS.  Because lets face it, we knew what rgiii was going to be by year 2 when it was clear he didnt want to work on his game, he just wanted to be rgiii.

 

Im a big proponent of drafting a couple of WORKERS at the position... let them learn in a system that isnt pressing them for results day 1

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk doing radio row now

 

Jamey Eisenberg‏Verified account @JameyEisenberg 4m4 minutes ago

More

Kirk Cousins on free agency: Would prefer to be with the Redskins but knows it's out of his control. "We'll see what they choose to do and go from there," Cousins said.

 

Im calling bull****.  Wish he would stop saying this.

[purbeast]

18 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Somehow I find no reason to believe that it's 100% out of his control.

I just take it as him saying "it is there move".

 

I mean, there is literally nothing he can do at this point other than wait to see if the Redskins make him an offer or let him hit FA.  He can't sign an offer sheet or franchise tag that doesn't ecist yet. 

 

So yes, it's 100% in the Redskins control at this point.

[skinny21]

16 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kirk doing radio row now

 

Jamey Eisenberg‏Verified account @JameyEisenberg 4m4 minutes ago

More

Kirk Cousins on free agency: Would prefer to be with the Redskins but knows it's out of his control. "We'll see what they choose to do and go from there," Cousins said.

Glimmer of hope.  Still think the Skins could get a deal done paying an an average of ~25, slightly backloaded to give us some FA wiggle room with record guarantees.  Of course, part of why I believe this has to do with my perspective on Cousins.  Namely that I think 1) he's not necessarily looking to be the highest paid ever, 2) that guaranteed money is more important to him than yearly salary, and 3) I believe him when he says he understands the ramifications of cap % and talks about successful qbs sticking with their teams.  

 

If your perspective is that Kirk is a greedy SOB and feels he must be paid the most money ever, than I wouldn't expect you to believe it's possible, or to even want him back - the Skins gave him everything and he's acting like a spoiled brat, lol.  

13 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Somehow I find no reason to believe that it's 100% out of his control.

It's not really, but the ball's pretty much out of his court for now I think.  

[zoony]

3 minutes ago, purbeast said:

I just take it as him saying "it is there move".

 

I mean, there is literally nothing he can do at this point other than wait to see if the Redskins make him an offer or let him hit FA.  He can't sign an offer sheet or franchise tag that doesn't ecist yet. 

 

So yes, it's 100% in the Redskins control at this point.

 

He just got done saying that money isnt the only thing he is considering, in response to whether he feels disrespected.  Also said it is possible to pay a qb amd still have an elite defense, ie pittsburgh

 

So if its not all about money, and he wants to stay with the redskins, what is it exactly he asking for?  And why wont he say?

 

Here is my conspiracy theory... his agent gave dan an ultimatum to fire bruce and invest in personnel dept.  Try that one on for size... as crazy as it sounds, it fits perfectly (not just with this interview but all the evidence from all sources)

 

Not saying i believe this, unless it comes true then i will claim i nailed it

[lavar1156]

The more Kirk talks the less I like him. He's borderline looking for sympathy and acting like a victim. Dude needs to focus on winning games.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, lavar1156 said:

The more Kirk talks the less I like him. He's borderline looking for sympathy and acting like a victim. Dude needs to focus on winning games.

 

...says the guy with Lavar in his screenname.

 

 

 

 

*Sorry, couldn't resist.  If not for RG3, Arrington would still wear the crown of Redskins who say stupid things and play the victim.

[purbeast]

3 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

He just got done saying that money isnt the only thing he is considering, in response to whether he feels disrespected.  Also said it is possible to pay a qb amd still have an elite defense, ie pittsburgh

 

So if its not all about money, and he wants to stay with the redskins, what is it exactly he asking for?  And why wont he say?

 

Here is my conspiracy theory... his agent gave dan an ultimatum to fire bruce and invest in personnel dept.  Try that one on for size... as crazy as it sounds, it fits perfectly (not just with this interview but all the evidence from all sources)

 

Not saying i believe this, unless it comes true then i will claim i nailed it

He has said exactly what he is looking for, on multiple occasions.

 

He said he wants to be where he is wanted and somewhere where he thinks he realistically has a chance at winning.