The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[Voice_of_Reason]

Who dictates playing time in pre-season?  Bruce from on high? Jay? “Redskins” decision?

 

Whoever it is needs to adopt a new approach.

[Skinsinparadise]

This is pretty funny, especially when they hit the Redskins part.

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Someone on this thread, made the purchase?  😀

 

 

 

 

[Dissident2]

On 8/14/2019 at 9:39 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

This is pretty funny, especially when they hit the Redskins part.

 

 

One that got me the most was the Bills fan saying, "I'm tired of all these bandwagon fans", lol. 

[justice98]

Interesting little observation that in the Gruden era, so since 2014, almost every draft has 3 starters come out of it, either here or around the league.  2016 only has 2 pending what happens with Doctson.

 

So however much Allen was responsible for these picks, that's actually not bad.  That's a definite improvement in the quality of drafting.  Without looking at every other team's draft history, I would guess that level of producing starters out of the draft is probably in the ball park of league average, at least.  They werent even that before.  

[RandyHolt]

Maybe a better grading of GM should include hitting on late round picks - not necessarily as a starter.

 

I have long felt Joe Blow could just blindly take the consensus ranking on a player in the early rounds, avoid red flag and major injuries, and hit on starters. The hard part is finding the gems in the rough, but in the information era, I have to assume its never been easier.

Sorry Botch Allen you were still voted worst GM last year

[Skinsinparadise]

Kyle Smith IMO the #1 asset by a mile in that FO.  I liked their recent drafts.  I think almost everyone on this thread, ditto.  But IMO they are at best hit and miss with all the other stuff.  If they put IMO their most competent FO person, Kyle, in charge of the whole operation.  It would likely change the mood of a lot of FO critics -- i know it would make me feel a lot better.  

[hatchetwound]

Case is our clear #1 at this point and we have Haskens learning he trade behind him.  Crazy thought:

 

Since Colt is nicked up right now, do you think we let him heal and then flip him to a desperate team for picks?  2020 is going to be a big draft, both overall and for us, and anything we can do to get capital is key.  Colt doesn't seem to be in the cards for us, so maybe trade him to a team that can use a backup, such as the Cards.

[ntotoro]

25 minutes ago, hatchetwound said:

Case is our clear #1 at this point and we have Haskens learning he trade behind him.  Crazy thought:

 

Since Colt is nicked up right now, do you think we let him heal and then flip him to a desperate team for picks?  2020 is going to be a big draft, both overall and for us, and anything we can do to get capital is key.  Colt doesn't seem to be in the cards for us, so maybe trade him to a team that can use a backup, such as the Cards.

 

As long as said team is willing to trade for a guy who will get hurt three plays into a relief stint...

[Peregrine]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Kyle Smith IMO the #1 asset by a mile in that FO.  I liked their recent drafts.  I think almost everyone on this thread, ditto.  But IMO they are at best hit and miss with all the other stuff.  If they put IMO their most competent FO person, Kyle, in charge of the whole operation.  It would likely change the mood of a lot of FO critics -- i know it would make me feel a lot better.  

Im not saying Smith wont turn out to be a good drafter, or GM, but what players outside of the #1 picks, have actually panned out from our last 3 drafts?

 

Literally not a single one so far.  Maybe the best so far has proven he can be our 3rd best corner.  Again, thats not to say they wont, but none of them have impressed, the best any of them have done have shown "flashes" of being able to play, and the only reason a few are in starting spots right now is due to roster cuts and unexpected injuries, not due to taking a job.

[Skinsinparadise]

15 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Im not saying Smith wont turn out to be a good drafter, or GM, but what players outside of the #1 picks, have actually panned out from our last 3 drafts?

 

Literally not a single one so far.  Maybe the best so far has proven he can be our 3rd best corner.  Again, thats not to say they wont, but none of them have impressed, the best any of them have done have shown "flashes" of being able to play, and the only reason a few are in starting spots right now is due to roster cuts and unexpected injuries, not due to taking a job.

 

Moreau is no star but he's the slot corner.  I presume that's who you mean as for the corner.  Quinn looks like is going to be a slot WR.  Settle might be a starter if it weren't for who was ahead of him at DT.  Roullier is the starting center.   Nicholson the starting FS.  Dion-Hamilton starting LB.  Guice when healthy some say will start at RB.

 

Looks like McLaurin might start.  Moreland might rotate at nickel.  Holcomb supposedly is the story of camp. 

 

I think they've done well in the draft.  Some say if you get 2-3 starters in a draft you are doing well.  they are on that pace.   Some have criticized Kyle for not breaking their long streak of mostly struggling for finding superstars - guys who are mentioned in the top 30 players, in the league.  I think that criticism is fair.  but the book isn't over on that front some of that needs to play out. 

 

Also i just don't think you can win in this league long term without a franchise Qb so fingers crossed they got Haskins right because if not I don't see this team rising above mediocrity so if Haskins fails then to me I think it will be a similar dance to recent years, ups and downs, mostly mediocrity. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

50 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Moreau is no star but he's the slot corner.  I presume that's who you mean as for the corner.  Quinn looks like is going to be a slot WR.  Settle might be a starter if it weren't for who was ahead of him at DT.  Roullier is the starting center.   Nicholson the starting FS.  Dion-Hamilton starting LB.  Guice when healthy some say will start at RB.

 

Looks like McLaurin might start.  Moreland might rotate at nickel.  Holcomb supposedly is the story of camp.

 

 

The 2017 and 2018 draft seems to have pulled in a lot of legit contributors, especially in the later rounds. Add to it Fuller and Ioannidis from 2016 are both starters (although not both for the Skins, unfortunately). I still remember the absolute dearth of late-round contributors from the Gibbs and Vinny years.

[Skinsinparadise]

28 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The 2017 and 2018 draft seems to have pulled in a lot of legit contributors, especially in the later rounds. Add to it Fuller and Ioannidis from 2016 are both starters (although not both for the Skins, unfortunately). I still remember the absolute dearth of late-round contributors from the Gibbs and Vinny years.

 

Yeah though if i recall he said last three years, so I didn't include 2016.  but I'll say 2016 was at least average.   2 starters is average.  Ionnaidis and Fuller and Doctson while disappointing has been a starter, too.  They also traded out of a round in that draft and accumulated 3 picks for 2017.  So it was decent work in 2016.  Though 2015 was better.   2014 was so so but not awful. 

 

Shanny's drafts are hard to judge.  In one sense he had a lot of misses but the ones that he struck gold with he struck big:  Trent, Kerrigan, Thompson and Reed are still core players here.  

 

The drafts have been better period post Vinny.   And really every stud GM if you give them a long enough tenure will have a bad draft or two, even John Schneider had a couple of bad drafts    Vinny actually did decently with the first rounders but he broke Mel Kiper among others main rule of thumb as to having good drafts -- that is accumulate picks and increase your odds.  When you got 4 picks you got to be a lot better-luckier than when you got 8 picks.

 

I think the biggest tease draft that I can recall was the 2011 draft.  Shanny traded down like crazy.  And for a year many thought (me included) we got a bonanza but over time that draft doesn't look that hot.   the 2014 draft was a weird one perception wise.  At first it was considered bad.  Then very good.  Now I think it's mostly considered so so. 

 

But I digress. 😀 I think the post Vinny years have been a distinct improvement as to the draft.  The last 3 years probably the high watermark. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Hard Knocks is getting soft.

(sorry, not the best thread to put this in)

 

 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah though if i recall he said last three years, so I didn't include 2016.  but I'll say 2016 was at least average.   2 starters is average.  Ionnaidis and Fuller and Doctson while disappointing has been a starter, too.  They also traded out of a round in that draft and accumulated 3 picks for 2017.  So it was decent work in 2016.  Though 2015 was better.   2014 was so so but not awful. 

 

Shanny's drafts are hard to judge.  In one sense he had a lot of misses but the ones that he struck gold with he struck big:  Trent, Kerrigan, Thompson and Reed are still core players here.  

 

The drafts have been better period post Vinny.   And really every stud GM if you give them a long enough tenure will have a bad draft or two, even John Schneider had a couple of bad drafts    Vinny actually did decently with the first rounders but he broke Mel Kiper among others main rule of thumb as to having good drafts -- that is accumulate picks and increase your odds.  When you got 4 picks you got to be a lot better-luckier than when you got 8 picks.

 

I think the biggest tease draft that I can recall was the 2011 draft.  Shanny traded down like crazy.  And for a year many thought (me included) we got a bonanza but over time that draft doesn't look that hot.   the 2014 draft was a weird one perception wise.  At first it was considered bad.  Then very good.  Now I think it's mostly considered so so. 

 

But I digress. 😀 I think the post Vinny years have been a distinct improvement as to the draft.  The last 3 years probably the high watermark. 

 

Yeah, when I was looking through Shanny's drafts I reached the same conclusion lol....it was like 5 future Ring of Fame members (I'm counting Cousins for the record lol) and a bunch of dreck. 2014-2017 (I'm calling this pre-Kyle, even though he was a scout) picked up some definite wins (Moses, Scherff, Ioannidis...all trench players, interestingly)...and since it's too early to know about any of the 2019 drafted players, just going over 2017-2018 I would describe it as maybe the best back to back drafts in Snyder's tenure as owner. Hoping i will be saying back to back to back drafts this time next year.

[Riggo#44]

The Junkies nailed Bruce Allen: He's a coward.

 

He pops out of his hole when there is good news and credit to be had--when the Redskins draft was praised, he made his rounds and had a couple of interviews, that schmarmy smile on his scumbag face.

 

Bad news or criticism, he's nowhere to be seen. He gives a bull**** answer to Trent Williams (I expect him to be there. I know what's going on, yadda, yadda, yadda) and leaves it to Jay to deal with. The Reuben Foster signing? Doug Williams was in front of the camera. When the charges were dropped and he wasn't suspended, there's chief douchebag pimping for the cameras.

 

He's a spineless bag of ****.

[SkinsGuy]

10 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The Junkies nailed Bruce Allen: He's a coward.

 

He pops out of his hole when there is good news and credit to be had--when the Redskins draft was praised, he made his rounds and had a couple of interviews, that schmarmy smile on his scumbag face.

 

Bad news or criticism, he's nowhere to be seen. He gives a bull**** answer to Trent Williams (I expect him to be there. I know what's going on, yadda, yadda, yadda) and leaves it to Jay to deal with. The Reuben Foster signing? Doug Williams was in front of the camera. When the charges were dropped and he wasn't suspended, there's chief douchebag pimping for the cameras.

 

He's a spineless bag of ****.

 

Don't beat around the bush. Tell us how you really feel about Bruce.

 

[Riggo#44]

9 minutes ago, SkinsGuy said:

 

Don't beat around the bush. Tell us how you really feel about Bruce.

 

 

I thought I was being nice!

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

26 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

The Junkies nailed Bruce Allen: He's a coward.

 

He pops out of his hole when there is good news and credit to be had--when the Redskins draft was praised, he made his rounds and had a couple of interviews, that schmarmy smile on his scumbag face.

 

Bad news or criticism, he's nowhere to be seen. He gives a bull**** answer to Trent Williams (I expect him to be there. I know what's going on, yadda, yadda, yadda) and leaves it to Jay to deal with. The Reuben Foster signing? Doug Williams was in front of the camera. When the charges were dropped and he wasn't suspended, there's chief douchebag pimping for the cameras.

 

He's a spineless bag of ****.

If it wasn’t so obvious, it wouldn’t be so sad.  If he just hid in his hole and never popped his head out, that’s one thing. But the convenient way he hides from all the bad stuff and pops out for the good is so pathetic, it boggles my mind that anyone can possibly see it any other way.

[hatchetwound]

On ‎8‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 12:46 PM, ntotoro said:

 

As long as said team is willing to trade for a guy who will get hurt three plays into a relief stint...

Like Sam Bradford?  Well, lets give the Vikings a call, they gave a 1st for him.  And they love our cast offs (See Kurt), so we can probably get at least a 5th from them

[skinzplay]

Methinks that many in the league agree with @Riggo#44. This team president is not held in high regard, particularly on Park Avenue after what went down with Lafemina.

[Skinsinparadise]

I am a big Kyle Smith guy.   But not everyone is with me.  I notice the team's drafting has some critics on the draft thread from some people I respect.  And his name isn't as hot apparently as some other evaluators judging by surveys that come out about hot personnel names, and the interviews and request of interviews that have happened this year and last for those looking for GM's.

 

The one thing I'll concede about Kyle is he hasn't broken yet the streak of this team not having elite-best at their position type of players.  We got a lot of good young players but no one really elite.  I think our best shot of breaking that might be with Guice this year, will see.  What's driving this point for me is just read ESPN's top 100 players, and not a one from the Redskins.  We don't fare well in any of these type of rankings no matter who is doing it whether its the players picking the players, PFF, etc.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26881107/2019-nflrank-predicting-nfl-best-100-players-season

 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

Because we overrate the **** out of our players without any of them earning such praise. 

 

We are already doing again this year with the defense 

[Voice_of_Reason]

11 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

Because we overrate the **** out of our players without any of them earning such praise. 

 

We are already doing again this year with the defense 

I’m not entirely sure that’s true for all positions.  

 

I think the team has an above average collection of parts.  Some very good parts. 

 

The problem is they aren’t put together very well, so the results are mediocre.  For example, featuring an OL which probably would be best running outside zone, but not having TEs and WRs who can block.  

 

DBs who are best playing zone but we play man...

 

Things like this sub-optimize the talent which is on the team.

 

In a vacuum, there is enough talent and resources spent on the defense to be a top 10 unit.

 

There is enough offensively to be somewhere around 16-20. 

 

Thats not extraordinarily high expectations. The question is, can the sum of the parts be what it’s supposed to be, or do you get worse when you add everything together.

[wit33]

 

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

.

 

The one thing I'll concede about Kyle is he hasn't broken yet the streak of this team not having elite-best at their position type of players.  We got a lot of good young players but no one really elite.  I think our best shot of breaking that might be with Guice this year, will see.  What's driving this point for me is just read ESPN's top 100 players, and not a one from the Redskins.  We don't fare well in any of these type of rankings no matter who is doing it whether its the players picking the players, PFF, etc.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/26881107/2019-nflrank-predicting-nfl-best-100-players-season

 

 

I know you’ve been all in on Guice before Skins drafted him, but man, he flashed big time last game. A significant physical presence. You can see how his his style could really wear down a defense physically and mentally. 

 

If the team team can find 30-35 carries for AP and Guice to eat on, Skins will be in most games. We’ll see if Case can protect the ball and use legs in critical situations. Defense will have to take another step as well. Overall, I’m ho hum on Case— history tells us he can win and lose games, more losing though. 

 

Seeing Guice moved the meter in positive direction for upcoming season. 

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I’m not entirely sure that’s true for all positions.  

 

I think the team has an above average collection of parts.  Some very good parts. 

 

The problem is they aren’t put together very well, so the results are mediocre.  For example, featuring an OL which probably would be best running outside zone, but not having TEs and WRs who can block.  

 

DBs who are best playing zone but we play man...

 

Things like this sub-optimize the talent which is on the team.

 

In a vacuum, there is enough talent and resources spent on the defense to be a top 10 unit.

 

There is enough offensively to be somewhere around 16-20. 

 

Thats not extraordinarily high expectations. The question is, can the sum of the parts be what it’s supposed to be, or do you get worse when you add everything together.

 

Can you be an effective run team consistently without having a top 10 QB? On the aggregate, exceptions I’m sure exist. 

 

**Eliminating run threat QBs, as they’re in a different category.