The Sky is on the ground

[Dissident2]

6 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

But **** that - Injuries have nothing to do with us not being able to put the best team out there - It is the owner 

 

But what pisses me off is the fans dont .. They have to vent . And you know i get it . I vent with my friends all the time but all some people do is ****ing vent and what really REALLY pisses me off is they are venting AT ME . 

 

What the hell do you expect to read coming into a thread called "The Sky is On the Ground"?? No one's venting at you. I couldn't care less what you think. You come into a thread clearly CREATED for venting and you complain that people are venting. You want to "talk about specific players"? Plenty of obvious threads for you to **** off to. 

 

The only thing polluting these threads is the stupidity of comments like yours. "Mother's basement" insults? Wow, way to raise the bar there, dude. 

 

If you want to make the case for the Snyder/Allen freak show having no bearing on how this team has performed as a whole since they've been in charge, feel friggin' free. I'm all ears. If you just want to jump on and insult people for making valid points because they make you feel uncomfortable, then here's an avatar suggestion for you:

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

6 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

  "if this franchise ever wins anything it will be in spite of Dan and Bruce, not because they helped to foster an environment conducive to winning." Really - and that is supposed to be somehow subjective - So who pays players wages, who holds coaches accountable who provides training facilities support logisitics to the team. Dan is the kind of owner you want - you want disfunctional - look to the  Bidwells - or the Glazers who do so little for the team they are invisible ? How about who or what ever it is that owns the browns ? 

 

IF he's stopped the FANBOY stage of his ownership..I agree. If NOT and he's still injecting his personal feelings into Team Mgmt..he's worse

10 hours ago, joeken24 said:

You know, not to bring up old news. And further, I'm not suggesting anything. But I listened to the interview with RGIII today. I must say, I agreed with a lot of what he said about how this organization drafted a guy second overall, but wasn't completely sold on him. This is a horrible indictment on how this front office works. And its true!! They reach on a player and then they set them up for failure.

 

 

That was typical RG3 BS. Blame everyone BUT himself. HE poisoned the well ALL BY HIMSELF. He was Dan's BOY!!! And he let EVERYONE know it.

IT was RG3 Crew that has put us where we are..lost draft picks...Cousins Pissed off...Just GO AWAY Robert

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

24 minutes ago, bedlamVR said:

 

They did more than you - seriously what have YOU done to help the team win ? What have YOU done to produce an environment conducive to winning? 

 

I have been a fan from a long way away for a long long time and interestingly enough i remember the mismanagement (as so described) under all kinds of ownership 1993-1999 were arguably way way way way worse than what we have endured since - people get on Dan Snyder for the obstructed view seat but who was the dinosaur who wanted to build a massive old fashioned concrete dome stadium in the first place ? 

 

  "if this franchise ever wins anything it will be in spite of Dan and Bruce, not because they helped to foster an environment conducive to winning." Really - and that is supposed to be somehow subjective - So who pays players wages, who holds coaches accountable who provides training facilities support logisitics to the team. Dan is the kind of owner you want - you want disfunctional - look to the  Bidwells - or the Glazers who do so little for the team they are invisible ? How about who or what ever it is that owns the browns ? 

 

Last I checked, I'm not employed by the team.  I'm a paying customer.  I'd like to hope they've done more than me considering one of them owns the team and the other is paid mightily by the team.  This is one of those times, where you're all fired up and should probably just step away from the keyboard.  Literally that was the most pointless thing you could've written. 

 

Now you've moved on to rambling about the obstructed view seat.  On the very long list of awful things Dan has contributed to, the obstructed view seat is way down there.  Is it greedy? Yeah.  But I could really care less about that.

 

Every owner pays the players wages, sorry - no cookie for that.

 

Holds coaches accountable?  I must give Danny credit for holding Jim Zorn accountable.  That was really awesome how he hired him in the first place, brought in a bingo caller to help out, and then fired him.  Way to go!  I also enjoyed the way he held Shanahan accountable by becoming bowling buddies with his QB.

 

Provides training facilities?  What a swell guy that owner is.

 

Support logistics? Again,

 

I know it's difficult to find things to applaud Dan for, but my god man - this is the absolute most laughable list of things to credit the owner for that I've ever read.

 

[RVAskins]

1 hour ago, repo_4 said:

Don't kid yourself. We are paddling opposite sides of the same boat...

That explains why we're going around in circles.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

2 hours ago, repo_4 said:

Don't kid yourself. We are paddling opposite sides of the same boat...

 

Nah, we are more in the Bengals class than the Browns. The Browns hopelessness is ingrained in every molecule of that team. We give some reason for hope and occasional signs of competence.

[crabbypatty]

9 hours ago, Dissident2 said:

 

And just to be clear, it was Shanny that didn't really want him, or at LEAST didn't think he was worth giving up all those picks for. It was our owner and his lackey that forced the issue. 

snip

 

While on some levels I agree, I think many of you are seeing things through the wrong set of glasses. Yes Bruce is a retard, and yes, this team will never amount to anything with Snyder in charge, and NO, there's nothing we can do about it.

What you guys need to remember is that for every Kraft or Rooney or Hunt, there are 5 Snyders, Jonses, Khans, etc.

There are very few franchises that have the "I got your back" atmosphere that you all pine for. Very very few. The vast majority of owners are bumbling idiots more concerned with making money then winning superbowls, and it shows with how many teams suck year after year. It seems hypocritical to insist on a "family atmosphere" for the players when they will jump ship at the first opportunity if more money is waved in their faces. It's a complicated mess, but I think the players and owners understand it's all about money. Some have long standing successful structures in place and breed winning cultures. Most do not. The average team may have a good year followed by 2 years of suck, or a bunch of 8-8 years, or whatever have you, but most teams are up and down year by year. It's just the nature of the beast.

While I agree that having that winning culture should be striven for, it's the equivalent of a golden unicorn.

We will most definitely not see that as long as the buddy/crony hiring circus is in town, and it will probably never leave.

I always thought we got the wrong bengals coordinator when Gruden was hired. I tried to like the guy but I thought Zimmer was the better choice. Still do.

But we're stuck with what we're stuck with, and no amount of ranting and raving will change Dan's or Bruce's minds about jack squat.

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 hours ago, bedlamVR said:

 

 

 

So many times i hear people - the same people tell me - because this is a public forum - that they are done they are never watching another down - and then next weeek they are back to tell me they are done they are never watching another down - and then the next week they are back to tell me they are do... oh wait we won - woohoo go Redskins .. Just **** off already 

 

I never said anything of the kind so you may want to direct your F Off somewhere else.  

[skins island connection]

I think everyone will agree to some extent that our 'emotional' wavelength has some high peaks and low valleys. Its what defines us as fans.

 

 Now, are we frustrated? Of COURSE! Things were finally starting to turn around for this team; we got a new DC and finally got rid of that bum Haslett-wannabe Joe Barry. I could never figure out what exactly was impressing the FO about him, maybe it was Bruce Allen's golf buddy or something.

 

But now the valley has returned. A lot of enlightening information has been spread, and whether or not its true, it has us fans up in arms; well, some fans.

 

In order to turn a franchise around, the owner is the last thing to worry about IMO, unless the owner is a meddling illogical butt wart. And at first, Dan Snyder was heavily involved with the team, and to a degree I couldn't blame him; he wanted to get a winner back in D.C., and if I ever forked out as much money as he did, I'd prob be the absolute worst owner ever, but I can understand his intention.

 

After fans got mad at him for it, he stepped back and hired others to handle it. The GMs that were hired by him or here when he got the team were not any good. But the biggest goof up he did IMO was hiring Bruce Allen, who had a proven record of screwing things up on other teams. And to this day, Bruce's fingerprints are all over every single thing that has gone wrong for this team.

 

If this organization wants to get back on a winning formulation, it starts, as many say, in the front office. The people buying the groceries, so to speak. They hire the chefs [ coaches ] who try to prepare a good meal. We fans can rag on every player on the team, but they were signed and paid to play on this team, and whether or not they're any good, that falls on the chef. If the chefs are limited in their abilities to prepare meals for the right occasion, then you look at the people buying the groceries; maybe they're not shopping at the right stores, looking for the right bargains, or buying expired or useless ingredients.

 

This team will not get better until Bruce Allen is replaced with someone competent; **** rolls downhill. Gruden, I'm kinda on the fence with him, but he's done a more consistent job than previous coaches. Evaluation of the scouting staff and what info they're given as to what or who to look for at combines, etc.

 Looking at the laundry list of injuries this team has does leave question and doubt of the abilities of the strength and condition coaches. I can't recall a time where we've had so many players hurt or out, and I've been following this team since the mid-70s.

 

I look back and shake my head at the amount of money the front office could have secured Cousins for, and see whats going on now. It leaves me to wonder what will happen when the next budding star player arises on this team, and will they go through the same thing that Cousins is going through.

 

I can't blame the players, I blame the front office, and until Dan Snyder finally realizes he's made a huge mistake in hiring Bruce Allen and finds another person to run this organization, the chefs and the groceries will continue to be bought by other teams who will create some great meals by brilliant chefs.

[campbellcooleyconnection]

Face it Stephen A.Smith was right in his rant, everything about the Redskins is Blah.The QB -the RBs -the WRs -the Defense- STs -coaching- FO -stadium u name it.Cant stand him but he's not wrong.

[ddub52]

I'm not sure if Gruden calls plays scared, or if Kirk is just trying not to hurt his value for when he hits free agency. But the guy barely ever slings it. I know the WRs aren't up to par, but give them a shot once in a while. While Thompson is a stud, our 3rd down RB has no business being our #1 receiver. 

[joeken24]

14 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

IF he's stopped the FANBOY stage of his ownership..I agree. If NOT and he's still injecting his personal feelings into Team Mgmt..he's worse

That was typical RG3 BS. Blame everyone BUT himself. HE poisoned the well ALL BY HIMSELF. He was Dan's BOY!!! And he let EVERYONE know it.

IT was RG3 Crew that has put us where we are..lost draft picks...Cousins Pissed off...Just GO AWAY Robert

Very difficult to make a reasonable point if you even whisper the name RG3. The young man is not perfect and is flawed like everyone of us on this thread. Its amazing how we get so emotional about a player when we don't have a clue who they are personally. I bet you weren't saying poison when he was ballin' out in his first year.

 

But I completely and utterly digress.

 

Bottom line is the "saga of RG3" was not the point. The point was how the Redskins convert players and expect greatness. That's the point....not where that point came from. Truth is truth. Best thing for everyone is to stick to what goes on on the field and some of the decisions that affect what goes on on the field. All that emotional bull**** about a grown ass man and who his "boy" is, is for (fill in the blank).

[joeken24]

On 10/30/2017 at 11:43 PM, cakmoney61 said:

I agree that Snyder making "Bob" an openly personal favorite of his was another huge mistake by the FO, but Bob with his massive ego is what did his career/knee the most damage.  

 

I apologize for going off topic, but I wish he would just shut up and move on.  

You're right, that was a bit off topic and completely based on what we hear in the media. That's unless of course you were in the locker room or was intimately involved with FO goings on. It's getting harder and harder to believe what you hear in news now a  days. Players, coaches and (recently) GMs that fall out of grace with this organization, don't simply get the ax. They get vilified. Once a person's character starts to get questioned, its all down hill from there. You are watching the story unfolding about Pryor aren't you? It skitzo really. Take a look at all the players that so called "fell from grace".  A few years later, they're doing a heartfelt interview and the dialogue suddenly changes to a point where the guy is doing a tearful interview on Oprah. Not talking about anyone in particular, but you get the picture. Its complete and utter bull****. I take the stories about RG3, Shanahan and any other person that's come through this organization with a big fat ass grain of salt.  

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

12 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 

After fans got mad at him for it, he stepped back and hired others to handle it. The GMs that were hired by him or here when he got the team were not any good. But the biggest goof up he did IMO was hiring Bruce Allen,

 

 

But here's the thing.  As fans we were under the impression that Danny had learned his lesson, he had hired football people to run his football operation and he had stepped away from any involvement.  We were told Shanny had full control, later the same message was sent as they hired SM.  We now know that SM did NOT have total control and there is increasing evidence that it was Dan and Bruce, not Mike, who was behind the trade up for RGIII.  If true that clearly shows that Mike did not have full control. 

 

So even though Snyder is spinning it like he turned it over to the experts in actuality he did not. And that remains the problem. 

[The Hangman- C_Hanburger]

9 hours ago, joeken24 said:

 I bet you weren't saying poison when he was ballin' out in his first year.

 

 All that emotional bull**** about a grown ass man and who his "boy" is, is for (fill in the blank).

When he refused to let Kirk back him up after Baltimore Game when he was clearly impaired...Yes. That is when I knew there was a problem. Seattle just confirmed it. Like YOU weren't yelling at the TV to yank him....His ego was evident with all the RG-ME stuff. Look back at my comments from 2012 and you'll see I was consistent.

 

And if you don't think the bromance infected the team cohesiveness, you don't know team sports. Just go back a read Santana's interview.

[skins island connection]

3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

 

But here's the thing.  As fans we were under the impression that Danny had learned his lesson, he had hired football people to run his football operation and he had stepped away from any involvement.  We were told Shanny had full control, later the same message was sent as they hired SM.  We now know that SM did NOT have total control and there is increasing evidence that it was Dan and Bruce, not Mike, who was behind the trade up for RGIII.  If true that clearly shows that Mike did not have full control. 

 

So even though Snyder is spinning it like he turned it over to the experts in actuality he did not. And that remains the problem. 

 

 This could be very true, and it would suck if he still the meddler.

 But I have a feeling its more Bruce being in Danny's ear, feeding him the set-up so he can be there to offer his solution. Allen's ego is beyond eccentric, he actually believes whats rattling around between his ears, and conveys those feelings to Danny.

 

 It will take a monumental change in the front office to clear out the minions who are loyal to Bruce, but Snyder is nostalgic in ways, and Bruce fits right in with his ideology. Separate Bruce Allen from the Redskins and it would be a huge step forward to turning this around, He stuck with Haslett for so long, so it won't be easy.

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

 This could be very true, and it would suck if he still the meddler.

 But I have a feeling its more Bruce being in Danny's ear, feeding him the set-up so he can be there to offer his solution. Allen's ego is beyond eccentric, he actually believes whats rattling around between his ears, and conveys those feelings to Danny.

 

 It will take a monumental change in the front office to clear out the minions who are loyal to Bruce, but Snyder is nostalgic in ways, and Bruce fits right in with his ideology. Separate Bruce Allen from the Redskins and it would be a huge step forward to turning this around, He stuck with Haslett for so long, so it won't be easy.

 

I just can't get past the history that shows Snyder either hires the wrong people or he hires incredibly smart, accomplished professionals who instantly become dumb once they arrive in Ashburn.  Either way it does not bode well of the future.

 

 

[skins island connection]

14 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I just can't get past the history that shows Snyder either hires the wrong people or he hires incredibly smart, accomplished professionals who instantly become dumb once they arrive in Ashburn.  Either way it does not bode well of the future.

 

 

 

 I don't blame you one bit, it certainly doesn't look good.  I just can't understand what happens to these coaches and players who get here and suddenly lose what got them here to begin with. But I do know 1 person behind a lot of the dysfunction in this organization, and there's not a lot anyone can do about it, unless an all-out uproar and protest is started, but even then, I have to realize that he would be in Danny's ear, whispering ' these fans are just upset and on a witch hunt', which is true, and unfortunately we all know who the witch is...

[Darrell Green Fan]

55 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 I don't blame you one bit, it certainly doesn't look good.  I just can't understand what happens to these coaches and players who get here and suddenly lose what got them here to begin with. But I do know 1 person behind a lot of the dysfunction in this organization, and there's not a lot anyone can do about it, unless an all-out uproar and protest is started, but even then, I have to realize that he would be in Danny's ear, whispering ' these fans are just upset and on a witch hunt', which is true, and unfortunately we all know who the witch is...

 

The toxic atmosphere under Snyder is well documented.   It's just a bad culture where tension exists behind every wall.  That just isn't a winning environment and those expecting change under Snyder are fooling themselves. For me the only way to handle this is to lower expectations.  If that does not sit well with some here I really don't care. 

[NoVaSkins21]

On 10/31/2017 at 11:36 AM, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Nah, we are more in the Bengals class than the Browns. The Browns hopelessness is ingrained in every molecule of that team. We give some reason for hope and occasional signs of competence.

 

Thing is that when things go wrong, it feels more like the Browns with all the losing that's been happening for such a long time.  

[Thirtyfive2seven]

I use to think that the best thing in the world would be to 'blow the whole thing up and start over"... but with what?  Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder?  No thanks.  The Redskins will decimate themselves in the offseason if the wheels fall off because they don't know any other way to handle these things.  It couldn't be Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder.  It must be a player, because they are always a player away.  It has to be the xyz coach because the defense was ranked xx out of yy.  Maybe someday the Redskins will get a really good dominant offensive line again and retain a very good quarterback and build around him.  Who knows.  I predicted 6-10 and I stand behind it.

[cakmoney61]

On 11/1/2017 at 12:22 AM, joeken24 said:

You're right, that was a bit off topic and completely based on what we hear in the media. That's unless of course you were in the locker room or was intimately involved with FO goings on. It's getting harder and harder to believe what you hear in news now a  days. Players, coaches and (recently) GMs that fall out of grace with this organization, don't simply get the ax. They get vilified. Once a person's character starts to get questioned, its all down hill from there. You are watching the story unfolding about Pryor aren't you? It skitzo really. Take a look at all the players that so called "fell from grace".  A few years later, they're doing a heartfelt interview and the dialogue suddenly changes to a point where the guy is doing a tearful interview on Oprah. Not talking about anyone in particular, but you get the picture. Its complete and utter bull****. I take the stories about RG3, Shanahan and any other person that's come through this organization with a big fat ass grain of salt.  

 

My comments about Robert are based on what I heard him say from his own mouth.  I have never been a fan of people with over-sized egos and his was visible virtually from the moment I became aware of him.

[RemoveSnyder]

In order for Bruce Allen to be "right," Kirk Cousins has to not play well, at least not too well. And therefore, if Cousins does not play well, the Redskins won't play well. In other words, they lose games. 

 

In order for Allen to be "right," the Redskins, as a team, have to lose games.

 

So, when defending his decision making to his one and only superior, Snyder, Allen can say: "Look, I was right. There's your evidence. Cousins didn't play well, not too well to be beyond reproach, the team has losses ... I was right." 

 

Process that. 

 

The team has to lose in order for Bruce Allen to be right, to be justified in his actions. The Team President of the Redskins needs for the Redskins to lose in order to validate his decisions. 

 

Wow. 

 

 

 

Now, look at the other side of the same coin.

 

In order for Allen to be "wrong," what needs to happen? That's right. Cousins needs to play well. And if Cousins plays well, more than likely the team wins games. Ultimately, if the team wins games, Cousins' worth has been validated. 

 

In order for Allen to be "wrong," the Redskins need to win games. 

Haha. Are you following this????

 

It's an adversarial relationship. 

 

Never before have I witnessed a situation where the indispensability of a Team President / GM and their quotient for choosing the correct path for that which is best for the organization, is reliant upon the team to ultimately lose. 

 

Allen interjects: "Look, there's your evidence. The team is winning, the Quarterback is doing well, all is well. My job security is validated."

 

No. He was the one who created the atmosphere of mistrust. He was the one who favored 1-year, "on-notice" contracts. He was the one quite literally sowing the seeds of doubt. Mind boggling. 

 

 

Cousins has to play well, the team has to win games, and the players have to rally around each other, for one another, despite the headmaster putting so many players "on notice" in an atmosphere of uncertainty and fear in order to disprove the Team President. 

 

And if our Team President is wrong, does anyone say anything about the next series of longterm decisions he has to make if the team is ultimately winning and the QB is playing well?  

 

 

 

You know who loses in all of this? We do. The fans, the supporters. We lose no matter the coin flip. 

And so too does the Organization. But since the organization is being run by the deceitful con, that really doesn't matter, ultimately. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Feels like the darkest before the dawn.  When healthy, this roster IMO is good.   IMO, we need a polished receiver, a running back and a TE who can block.   The defense actually is talented now but needs more depth.  We can use a returner.  I don't this roster when healthy has many holes.  We had Skip Bayless who if anything is a Redskins hater saying they played the best football in the NFL for the first 4 games.  But, the injuries are insane.  I get every team gets them but its like the team was hit by the plague.    The schedule in 2018 in theory doesn't look as bad.   Another off season of upgrades and if Kirk stays -- I am optimistic.   If we do a reset, I think that would be a shame because IMO this team is one more off season away from doing some serious damage.

 

http://www.pslsource.com/washington_redskins_future_schedule_of_opponents

 

2018 Regular Season
Home	Away
Atlanta Falcons	New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers	Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Houston Texans	Jacksonville Jaguars
Indianapolis Colts	Tennessee Titans
NFC North Same Place Finisher	NFC West Same Place Finisher
New York Giants (Div.)	New York Giants (Div.)
Dallas Cowboys (Div.)	Dallas Cowboys (Div.)
Philadelphia Eagles (Div.)	Philadelphia Eagles (Div.)

[Jumbo]

^^....so you're sayin' there's a chance....

 

 

2018!!! A Reason to Live!!!

 

 

 

 

[max21]

Is this the thread where everyone yells at each other? I’m in!