A Confidence I Haven't Had in 25 Years

[NickyJ]

12 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

You do realize that if we go 8-8 or 9-7 this year like you just said you think we will that it will be BY FAR our best three year stretch since 1990-1992? You understand this, correct? Thus viewing the thread premise from the context of our 25 year history. 

I, for one, am absolutely thrilled with the thought of spending another five years saying "If our coach just learns how to do X" and "Our QB is excellent because he has pretty sparkly rainbows in his stats" while we go 8-8. Norv Turner would be proud.

[kleese]

Just now, zoony said:

 

You do realize that 8-8 or 9-7 is the absolute worst record in the NFL, don't you?  It is no mans land.  Picking in the middle of the draft, and missing the playoffs.

 

You understand this, correct?  

 

 

 

The premise of the thread is stating a confidence level in fielding a competent competitive football team consistently for the first time in 25 years.... Debating whether or not 8-8/9-7 is no mans land is simply a different topic entirely. 

 

But this isn't the NBA, you don't need too five picks in order to get great. There are teams that have gone 9-7 and gone to the Super Bowl. Teams that have gone 8-8 three years in a row and then made a big jump. In the NFL making the playoffs means you are in contention, period. 

 

Now if you want to debate whether our regime will be able to go to the next level, that's fine. But agaun, it's a totally different topic. 

[NewCliche21]

6 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

You do realize that 8-8 or 9-7 is the absolute worst record in the NFL, don't you?  It is no mans land.  Picking in the middle of the draft, and missing the playoffs.

 

You understand this, correct?  

 

 

 

You do understand that if it means that we're on our way to 13-3 or 14-2 (and winning a Super Bowl) then it's totally worth it, right?

 

And I do understand that there is no way in hell that we're on our way to 13-3 or 14-2 (and winning a Super Bowl), right?

[zoony]

3 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

The premise of the thread is stating a confidence level in fielding a competent competitive football team consistently for the first time in 25 years..

 

The Browns have been a competitive football team this year.

 

I think we're done here.

4 minutes ago, NickyJ said:

I, for one, am absolutely thrilled with the thought of spending another five years saying "If our coach just learns how to do X" and "Our QB is excellent because he has pretty sparkly rainbows in his stats" while we go 8-8. Norv Turner would be proud.

 

8-8 is competitive, bro.  

 

Jokes on you!

[worldpost]

Done with the Redskins media.. Almost every radio @ print personality has declared the season over, lost done etc at 3-3   Their twitter accounts are worse than any fan boy around.. No recondition of who is out and who will come back next week.. They have us losing to Dallas at home already.. Can we please get a media that actually likes this team?!

[NewCliche21]

3 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

The Browns have been a competitive football team this year.

 

I think we're done here.

 

8-8 is competitive, bro.  

 

Jokes on you!

 

Hey man, not sure if you're just trying to be sarcastic and doing it poorly or what, but you're not coming off very well in this thread.  You're being pretty rude to @kleese for no reason.  The point of the thread isn't to say that we're good; it's to say that it just feels like something is trending upwards.

You want to disagree?  Fine.  Don't attack another member, though.  That's not cool at all.

[NoCalMike]

Competitive is a relative term.  The modern day NFL is a parity league.  The 49ers have been competitive in every single game, yet are 0-6.  The 'Skins have been competitive in every game, but are 3-3.

 

For me the term "competitive" merely means .500. Winning about half the games, but losing half.  That is what the current 'Skins team looks like to me.  They can play with any team, but also get beaten by any team.

Right now that loss to the Chiefs doesn't look as forgiving as it did a couple weeks ago.  Every team competes, you need to find ways to win in this league.

[NickyJ]

2 minutes ago, zoony said:

8-8 is competitive, bro.  

 

Jokes on you!

To be fair, the Seahawks made it in on 7-9. Clearly we'll be able to do the same.

 

Also to be fair, we almost made it last season. But we were competitive enough to make it to the last game, and then lose to a team already locked in. But it was competitive!

[Warhead36]

I think we have a good, not great, football team that is unfortunately being decimated by injuries and has just so happened to be going up against a brutal schedule.

 

A shame but it is what it is.

[kleese]

2 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

The Browns have been a competitive football team this year.

 

I think we're done here.

 

8-8 is competitive, bro.  

 

Jokes on you!

 

Obviously we are talking about being competitive for an entire season as opposed to in an individual game. 

 

In 2015/2016 the Redskins were very much alive in the playoff race week 17. One year they made it, one year they didn't. Last time that happened?   1991/1992. Right now this season could go a number of ways-- let's assume it goes that way again and we are in the hunt until the end. Is that good enough for me? Uh, yes. Considering where we've been, yes it is absolutely good enough for me. Once we establish ourselves as a team that wins more than they lose (even by a fraction) then I will start worrying about taking the next step. Redskins football where they play 16 games that matter three years in a row? Yes, sign me up for the that. 

[Warhead36]

Give me meaningful football in December.

 

I don't give an F about draft position. This is the NFL, great players are available at every pick in every round.

 

And no matter how hard we try, we won't tank enough to be as bad as the likes of Cleveland, San Fran, or Indy.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

2 minutes ago, worldpost said:

Done with the Redskins media.. Almost every radio @ print personality has declared the season over, lost done etc at 3-3   Their twitter accounts are worse than any fan boy around.. No recondition of who is out and who will come back next week.. They have us losing to Dallas at home already.. Can we please get a media that actually likes this team?!

You want the media to lie to you?  The team just crapped the bed again on Monday Night Football, being swept by the Eagles.  They have no idea at this time what the injury situations look like.  What they do know is this team looks pretty bad and more injuries to pivotal players only makes things worse with the Cowboys and Seattle coming up.

[dyst]

17 minutes ago, zoony said:

You understand this, correct?  

 

 

People will eventually come around. I mean we had guys thinking this WR corps was actually good. Oof

[jskins11]

Still feeling ok. Look, we have three losses to teams with a combined record of 11-3. Eagles and Chiefs are the two best teams in their conferences. No shame in that. Could've easily had one or two of those. 

 

I am am concerned about injuries and the next 4 games. Our schedule has been brutal thus far. 

 

Eagles (6-1)

Rams (5-2)

Raiders (3-4)

Chiefs (5-2)

49ers (0-7)

Eagles (6-1)

 

That's 4 games vs division leaders. In next 4 we get 2 more division leaders, plus Seattle and Dallas. 

 

Need to somehow get to 5-5. Pretty navigable schedule down the stretch if we get healthy. Division is likely out of reach. Root for Eagles to beat all wild card competition like Dallas did for us last year. 

 

Cardinals, Broncos, Giants (x2), Chargers are all games we can win. 

 

10-6 is still very realistic IF we can get through next 4 games as 2-2, and we can get a few key guys healthy. Best chances for wins, imo, are Dallas and Minnesota. Vikings' offense will not gash us. 

 

We're not winning at Seattle, and Drew Brees will chew us up if we play like we have in last 3 games on defense. 

[Diehard Otis]

20 minutes ago, worldpost said:

Done with the Redskins media.. Almost every radio @ print personality has declared the season over, lost done etc at 3-3   Their twitter accounts are worse than any fan boy around.. No recondition of who is out and who will come back next week.. They have us losing to Dallas at home already.. Can we please get a media that actually likes this team?!

Wait; you're talking about ES, right?

[worldpost]

19 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

You want the media to lie to you?  The team just crapped the bed again on Monday Night Football, being swept by the Eagles.  They have no idea at this time what the injury situations look like.  What they do know is this team looks pretty bad and more injuries to pivotal players only makes things worse with the Cowboys and Seattle coming up.

They have lost to the 6-1 Eagles twice and the KC Chiefs..  The world is not over..  And no I want some objective reporting.. not fan boys crying in their beer. I can get that at some random bar anywhere in the US

[SkinInsite]

trust the process

 

 

it's been going for 20 years.

[CrypticVillain]

On 10/18/2017 at 3:41 PM, CrypticVillain said:

Thankfully, Monday's game is coming. It will answer the questions I that I have about this team.

I've gotten my answers. We are still a flawed team when it comes to coaching and preparation. Luckily, I think the problems are fixable (With better coaching obviously). Other than that, we're just too injured to compete with the best right now. This season will be determined on if we can get players healthy. And that sucks.

[kleese]

Two things stuck out to me from the Philly game:

 

1. My mind hasn't changed at all on the Eagles as a whole-- I think we have a better/deeper/more talented roster top to bottom than they do. But what I underestimated is the Wentz factor. Kirk is good. really good even. He is a pro bowl caliber QB and he is having another fine season. But what we saw from Wentz last night was greatness. He needs to keep this up consistently of course to enter the "elite" category officially, but that was an elite performance. Kirk is simply not physically capable of doing the things Wentz did. We played PERFECT defense on some of those plays and he still beat us. In terms of playmaking ability, Wentz is off the charts. For the most part, it looked like two equal teams out there last night. But they had a guy that was doing jaw-dropping stuff and those handful of plays made the difference. Right now Wentz is equally as effective as Aaron Rodgers-- and when a QB reaches that level his presence or absence can literally be the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 or better.

 

2. Injuries ARE on excuse when you reach a certain volume. Missing Norman is a killer because he is the best player on the defense and one of the best at his positon in the league. If his absence ISN'T felt, then what would that say about him? And the entire OL is hobbling right now; we have guys out injured and other guys gutting it out, but it is likely affecting their play and our preparation (practice, etc.)

 

I really haven't changed much in the way I feel from when I started the thread-- one difference being something irrelevant to the discussion (Wentz being better than I thought) and the other being the unpredictable nature of injuries.

[Diehard Otis]

19 hours ago, jskins11 said:

Still feeling ok. Look, we have three losses to teams with a combined record of 11-3. Eagles and Chiefs are the two best teams in their conferences. No shame in that. Could've easily had one or two of those. 

 

I am am concerned about injuries and the next 4 games. Our schedule has been brutal thus far. 

 

Eagles (6-1)

Rams (5-2)

Raiders (3-4)

Chiefs (5-2)

49ers (0-7)

Eagles (6-1)

 

That's 4 games vs division leaders. In next 4 we get 2 more division leaders, plus Seattle and Dallas. 

 

Need to somehow get to 5-5. Pretty navigable schedule down the stretch if we get healthy. Division is likely out of reach. Root for Eagles to beat all wild card competition like Dallas did for us last year. 

 

Cardinals, Broncos, Giants (x2), Chargers are all games we can win. 

 

10-6 is still very realistic IF we can get through next 4 games as 2-2, and we can get a few key guys healthy. Best chances for wins, imo, are Dallas and Minnesota. Vikings' offense will not gash us. 

 

We're not winning at Seattle, and Drew Brees will chew us up if we play like we have in last 3 games on defense. 

 

5 hours ago, CrypticVillain said:

I've gotten my answers. We are still a flawed team when it comes to coaching and preparation. Luckily, I think the problems are fixable (With better coaching obviously). Other than that, we're just too injured to compete with the best right now. This season will be determined on if we can get players healthy. And that sucks.

 

4 hours ago, kleese said:

Two things stuck out to me from the Philly game:

 

1. My mind hasn't changed at all on the Eagles as a whole-- I think we have a better/deeper/more talented roster top to bottom than they do. But what I underestimated is the Wentz factor. Kirk is good. really good even. He is a pro bowl caliber QB and he is having another fine season. But what we saw from Wentz last night was greatness. He needs to keep this up consistently of course to enter the "elite" category officially, but that was an elite performance. Kirk is simply not physically capable of doing the things Wentz did. We played PERFECT defense on some of those plays and he still beat us. In terms of playmaking ability, Wentz is off the charts. For the most part, it looked like two equal teams out there last night. But they had a guy that was doing jaw-dropping stuff and those handful of plays made the difference. Right now Wentz is equally as effective as Aaron Rodgers-- and when a QB reaches that level his presence or absence can literally be the difference between 5-11 and 11-5 or better.

 

2. Injuries ARE on excuse when you reach a certain volume. Missing Norman is a killer because he is the best player on the defense and one of the best at his positon in the league. If his absence ISN'T felt, then what would that say about him? And the entire OL is hobbling right now; we have guys out injured and other guys gutting it out, but it is likely affecting their play and our preparation (practice, etc.)

 

I really haven't changed much in the way I feel from when I started the thread-- one difference being something irrelevant to the discussion (Wentz being better than I thought) and the other being the unpredictable nature of injuries.

These comments essentially sum up my perspective.

 

I'm still bullish on The Redskins Program this year, but we have reached the proverbial fork in the road.

 

Going forward, it isn't about Coaching, or who's playing, or even whether a given contest is at Home or on The Road. 

 

For the next few weeks we'll all learn how much grit The Skins have.  All that's left now is to get through this stretch on guts.  And I'll gladly take .500 ball until the health of The Team improves.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

As I've said on other threads before last night, I was optimistic before the season.  However, as for the team turning over a major new corner?  That to me is 50-50.  We have to see it play out.  Feeling really good at points in the season isn't novel to this year.  Feeling like the team in theory is turning over a new leaf from the past -- that isn't a novel feeling for me either.  But I've learned if I get my hopes up to much in that regard it has led to disappointment.  So this time I am staying medium.

 

I was listening to an NFL pundit type (escaping me whom) sum up the type of team the Redskins are before last night and it hit me hard -- that dude is right.  That is, the Redskins are known for inconsistentcy.   They aren't a winner.  They aren't a loser.  They are up and down.  They can beat anybody and lose to anyone.   They are a streaky team up and down.  That's their identity.  

 

That really has been the story of this franchise for awhile.  We have nice moments.  We have bad moments.  Lately, we end up a little more good than bad but its close to even.

 

It's not that I don't think this team overcomes that identity.  But they are 3-3.  They so far fit that identity to a tee.   There is plenty of time to paint a new picture and I think they are capable of doing it but I am not fully buying in until it happens.  I am not skeptical on this front or optimistic.  I am open either way but I need to see it before counting chickens. 

[kleese]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As I've said on other threads before last night, I was optimistic before the season.  However, as for the team turning over a major new corner?  That to me is 50-50.  We have to see it play out.  Feeling really good at points in the season isn't novel to this year.  Feeling like the team in theory is turning over a new leaf from the past -- that isn't a novel feeling for me either.  But I've learned if I get my hopes up to much in that regard it has led to disappointment.  So this time I am staying medium.

 

I was listening to an NFL pundit type (escaping me whom) sum up the type of team the Redskins are before last night and it hit me hard -- that dude is right.  That is, the Redskins are known for inconsistentcy.   They aren't a winner.  They aren't a loser.  They are up and down.  They can beat anybody and lose to anyone.   They are a streaky team up and down.  That's their identity.  

 

That really has been the story of this franchise for awhile.  We have nice moments.  We have bad moments.  Lately, we end up a little more good than bad but its close to even.

 

It's not that I don't think this team overcomes that identity.  But they are 3-3.  They so far fit that identity to a tee.   There is plenty of time to paint a new picture and I think they are capable of doing it but I am not fully buying in until it happens.  I am not skeptical on this front or optimistic.  I am open either way but I need to see it before counting chickens. 

 

But here's the deal...this "consistently average" thing isn't consistent with the Redskins at all. This is why I'm borderline giddy about another 8/9 win season. Because we HAVEN'T done that in forever. That has NOT been our identity. It's possible that if we string together three straight now-awful seasons together in a row that we can start believing that at the minimum the ship has righted to a point where we have stability and then can maybe start focusing on "next level" steps.

 

I keep hearing "looks like same ole' Redskins to me." I'm just not sure what Redskins others have been watching for 25 years.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

But here's the deal...this "consistently average" thing isn't consistent with the Redskins at all. This is why I'm borderline giddy about another 8/9 win season. Because we HAVEN'T done that in forever. That has NOT been our identity. It's possible that if we string together three straight now-awful seasons together in a row that we can start believing that at the minimum the ship has righted to a point where we have stability and then can maybe start focusing on "next level" steps.

 

I keep hearing "looks like same ole' Redskins to me." I'm just not sure what Redskins others have been watching for 25 years.

 

If your point is consistently average, I'd agree with that.  As for average being an improvement, I'd agree with that, too.  I am not giddy about it, though.   I would be giddy for a playoff appearance, wild card or whatever.   But I get the overall sentiment which is we aren't bad and that's an improvement.

 

As for defining the team as consistently/inconsistent, I get the idea.  If I recall the Redskins are the only team in the NFL that hasn't won more than 10 games in like two decades or something to that effect.  We don't really have a big year even when we win.  It's usually sneaking in as a wild card or barely winning the division and often even those seasons are roller coasters which are often saved by a late season surge.  

 

My point is the feeling like the tide has turned in the middle of the season in a watershed franchise changing way -- I've had that feeling before and its been dashed.   Funny enough my biggest optimism behind this team is actually Kirk.  The same player that some think is holding the team back.  With a franchise QB you always have a shot.  Some want to do a reset and start over at QB -- in my view if we do that, good shot we will remember the 5-11 days pretty fast all over again. 

[skins4eva]

17 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

But here's the deal...this "consistently average" thing isn't consistent with the Redskins at all. This is why I'm borderline giddy about another 8/9 win season. Because we HAVEN'T done that in forever. That has NOT been our identity. It's possible that if we string together three straight now-awful seasons together in a row that we can start believing that at the minimum the ship has righted to a point where we have stability and then can maybe start focusing on "next level" steps.

 

I keep hearing "looks like same ole' Redskins to me." I'm just not sure what Redskins others have been watching for 25 years.

 

I really do love your optimism.  I can't help but feel that coaching (on the offensive side of the ball) is really letting us down.  We had opportunity after opportunity to go up big on Philly last night, and horrendous playcalling coupled with a lack of situational awareness by Cousins (which will prevent him from ever being great) tanked what had been a fabulous first half defensive effort.  Who knows how the game may have turned out had we scored TDs and gone up 14+ points on the Eagles.  It's so frustrating because with better coaching, I think we would have.  I just think we are reaching the limits of Gruden as a coach.  He's mediocre on a good day.  Yesterday he was a complete liability, and I thought he cost us the game.

[kleese]

1 minute ago, skins4eva said:

 

I really do love your optimism.  I can't help but feel that coaching (on the offensive side of the ball) is really letting us down.  We had opportunity after opportunity to go up big on Philly last night, and horrendous playcalling coupled with a lack of situational awareness by Cousins (which will prevent him from ever being great) tanked what had been a fabulous first half defensive effort.  Who knows how the game may have turned out had we scored TDs and gone up 14+ points on the Eagles.  It's so frustrating because with better coaching, I think we would have.  I just think we are reaching the limits of Gruden as a coach.  He's mediocre on a good day.  Yesterday he was a complete liability, and I thought he cost us the game.

 

It's not optimism. Sometimes, I feel it is the opposite. Like the rest of ES has been watching a juggernaut for 25 years and is letdown just winning 8 or 9 games. I feel like I remember the misery of those years far too well to brush off three straight years of competence. I like Gruden. I like Kirk. I don't necessarily LOVE either of them, but I appreciate what program they took over and appreciate the fact that under their leadership the team has been markedly better.