kleese Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 2 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: Is this where I accuse you of trying to sell everyone on a complete lie of hope to an organisation with no structure going nowhere fast. As it hasn't been for the past going on three decades and counting. However you want to jazz it up as somehow positive as slightly better than it has been. ****es ****e however you want to dress it up. Is that how that works when we disagree Ed? Hail. I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. I just post how I feel personally. We all have opinions here. You explain why you disagree with mine and I explain why I disagree with yours. The only area where I think I'm "right" in this debate is when it comes to historical context and some of the revisionist history as it relates to our past as an organization. For now, I'm looking at the results. I'm not necessarily sold that Allen and Snyder suddenly know what they are doing and that our future is rainbows and sunshine. But there HAS been a change on the field. We have better players and our results are better. We didn't follow up a random playoff season in 2015 with an absolute stinker in 2016 like we did in our past random playoff years. It appears for the third year in a row we are fielding a competitive, competent team and that type of change is encouraging to me. And even beyond what it does or doesn't mean for the long term, as a fan I am just enjoying the seasons more due to the competence. Maybe it all falls apart again and we go 4-12 next year and are back to the dregs-- but for now, stability has seemed to enter the building and I'm OK with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LavarArringtonMachine Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said: The worst thing that can happen to this team is finish 8-8. They'll blame injuries and line it up the same way next year for 8-8. This is exactly what is going to happen!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: Is this where I accuse you of trying to sell everyone on a complete lie of hope to an organisation with no structure going nowhere fast. As it hasn't been for the past going on three decades and counting. However you want to jazz it up as somehow positive as slightly better than it has been. ****es ****e however you want to dress it up. Is that how that works when we disagree Ed? Hail. The answer is yes. On another note, the Jets are "competitive", too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: I used to stand up for (Stupidly. As you probably berated me at the time among many others) for lil' Danny just being misguided and actually wanting to win as much as the next man in his own, albeit ass-backward, F-ed up way. I would not have berrated you because I've also "defended" (actually, I more define it as fact checked) nonsense about Snyder. For example, he hasn't fired 43 coaches. He's fired 4, and there was consensus that 2 of them needed firing (Norv and Zorn.) Spurrier and Gibbs resigned for various reasons. His worst decision was firing Marty. And Shanahan probably needed to go as well, but there are some extenuating circumstances surrounding that debacle. His biggest mistake has always been hiring people he's comfortable with, not the best people to do the job. And not holding them accountable for doing their jobs. It took almost a walk-out in 2009 to get rid of Vinny, when anybody with half a brain could see he was a fool. 1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: It was rekindled when we hired Mac and it 'appeared' to be turning back to an actual, professionally run football organisation for the first time since JKC and Bobby and Coach. Only to have them fool every last one of us yet again to then swipe the rug out from under our feet. Placing us back in this never-ending pit of mediocrity I'm now resigned to be forever mired in. I don't blame anybody for the McCloughan situation. By all accounts he was drinking on the job. He hasn't disputed this, and therefore he needed to go. The way they handled it was the epitome of stupid. But he needed to go. 1 hour ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: Hate is a horrible emotion. About the worst we have as humans. But I've now come full circle on Snyder to seriously hating the man. Down to him settling, or as you so pertinently described it, 'comfortable' ..... Comfortable with being mediocre and never having the ambition to go beyond that. I don't hate Snyder. I do think he got lucky to make his money made it quickly, and hasn't really had to run an organization, and just isn't very good at it. He doesn't know when to step in, when to step out, who to trust, how to hold people accountable, etc. Mostly because he never had to really do it because he made SO much money SO fast. I do think he wants to win. I don't think he WANTS to be a middling team. But I also don't think he wants to fire Allen and start over with somebody new, because that's uncomfortable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, zoony said: The answer is yes. On another note, the Jets are "competitive", too And Jets fans probably are happy that they don't completely suck like the Browns do. For me as a fan, without a doubt the NUMBER one thing that matter is something very selfish-- my own personal level of enjoyment. I'm not an "it's all about the ring" guy. That should absolutely be the organizational goal, but I understand that that is rarely going to happen so you better be able to find enjoyment from following your teams when it doesn't-- if the team will allow you to do so. I am also an OKC Thunder fan/season ticket holder (probably a bigger Thunder fan than Redskins fan actually). Anyway, for 10 years they've been here it's been an amazing ride. So many incredible games/moments/players. But I know a few fans who think it's all for naught because they haven't won a ring and have only made the NBA Finals once. That's their prerogative, but for me, being consistently in the mix matters most. Now, the Thunder as an organization are WAY WAY better than the Redskins, I'm not making the comparison, just illustrating a point. I am not TELLING anyone else how to feel. I really don't care about that. If you don't enjoy following the Redskins or like what you are seeing that's your deal and I have no qualms with it and I'm not trying to change your mind. It's a discussion board and I simply state my own feelings and opinions. And my personal experience is that this current formation of the Redskins is more enjoyable than any period over the last 25 years. Yes, the bar is for sure low. Quite low actually. But I'm OK with them steadily climbing or even plateauing at a middling level. If three years from now, we've gone 8-8 five years in a row, then I'm sure some frustration will kick in and I'll want changes. But we aren't far enough down the road for me to have grown tired with being competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 If we can win 2 of the next 4 we're right in there, interesting how the power rankings all have us still in the top 10. Right now it looks like 8 or 9 wins will get a wildcard spot but of course, that can change. Now that my blood pressure has come down I think we can still make a push for the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB28 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Just. Beat. Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, kleese said: <SNIP> I am not TELLING anyone else how to feel. I really don't care about that. If you don't enjoy following the Redskins or like what you are seeing that's your deal and I have no qualms with it and I'm not trying to change your mind. It's a discussion board and I simply state my own feelings and opinions. And my personal experience is that this current formation of the Redskins is more enjoyable than any period over the last 25 years. Yes, the bar is for sure low. Quite low actually. But I'm OK with them steadily climbing or even plateauing at a middling level. If three years from now, we've gone 8-8 five years in a row, then I'm sure some frustration will kick in and I'll want changes. But we aren't far enough down the road for me to have grown tired with being competent. Seems to be lost on a lot of people in this thread, some of whom I usually look forward to hearing from. I'm one of those who are all about the ring, and I do feel like we're on an upward trajectory. I think 2018 could be something big. Does that mean I'm trying to change everyone else's mind? No. My opinion is my own, and everyone is free to disagree. However, it's ridiculous that people are ****ting on and mocking others' opinions. What is the point of that? The thread title isn't deceptive, kleese isn't being argumentative, and it's just beyond my grasp as to why people would make their top priority in life at the moment to argue with someone else about how they feel. Me: I like ketchup. Some posters: Ketchup is stupid. You're stupid for liking ketchup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 In RGlll's rookie season we were 3 - 6 and ended up winning the division...I still hold out hope that things can turn around but the thing holding me back is the offensive play calling. We have nothing to hang our hats on right now as go to plays or go to players....Vernon Davis and Chris Thompson are our only consistent threats who have brought their lunch box every week. Beating Dallas could bring hope though so lets pray that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 19 minutes ago, kleese said: I'm not trying to sell anyone on anything. I just post how I feel personally. We all have opinions here ..... Would that be aside from me 'at my dramatic best' and within that the suggestion I don't know my own feelings on my own team? We've both been doing this **** about as long as each other. Both are similar ages. Hell, we've both been on these here boards going back and forth longer than either of us care to remember. That kind of condescending B/S reflects even worse on you when you take all that into account. 19 minutes ago, zoony said: The answer is yes. On another note, the Jets are "competitive", too Z!!!!! Stop making me smile when I'm currently wholly pissed! You're not helping darn it! Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 13 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said: I don't blame anybody for the McCloughan situation. By all accounts he was drinking on the job. He hasn't disputed this, and therefore he needed to go. The way they handled it was the epitome of stupid. But he needed to go. I don't want to derail this thread with more GMSM stuff but he filed a grievance. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/10/22/former-gm-scot-mccloughan-testifies-under-oath-in-nfl-grievance-over-firing/?utm_term=.98420333028a The only report of him drinking being the cause for dismissal is still that of an 'anonymous' Redskins official. Bruce is still not off the hook for this in any capacity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: Would that be aside from me 'at my dramatic best' and within that the suggestion I don't know my own feelings on my own team? We've both been doing this **** about as long as each other. Both are similar ages. Hell, we've both been on these here boards going back and forth longer than either of us care to remember. That kind of condescending B/S reflects even worse on you when you take all that into account. Z!!!!! Stop making me smile when I'm currently wholly pissed! You're not helping darn it! Hail. The "dramatic best" comment was a joke, thus the smiley face at the end. I've often in the past used the "drama" term with you as a light hearted exchange. In nowhere in my posts or responses have I tried to tell you how to feel or argued with you about your own personal reactions. That's your thing. The only thing I pointed out was my disagreement on our past history as an organization. I perceive that differently from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I don't want to derail this thread with more GMSM stuff but he filed a grievance. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/10/22/former-gm-scot-mccloughan-testifies-under-oath-in-nfl-grievance-over-firing/?utm_term=.98420333028a The only report of him drinking being the cause for dismissal is still that of an 'anonymous' Redskins official. Bruce is still not off the hook for this in any capacity. Ok, that's fair. I hadn't heard about the grievance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 If only that hadn't been a recent theme from you when we've disagreed Kleese. Nice swerve. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 10 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: If only that hadn't been a recent theme from you when we've disagreed Kleese. Nice swerve. Hail. It's not a swerve, it's a ha-ha. It isn't meant to demean your opinions, it's an effort to keep it light. No different than you or Zoony or whoever insinuating or saying I'm a homer. I might defend myself against it, but I can promise you I am not offended or upset by it in any manner at all. To me, it's just a little needling or ribbing between some posters who have been going back and forth on the boards for a long time. And really, are we even "disagreeing" here? I don't really view it that way. It would be one thing if we were debating about a specific player or how Allen should be viewed in his tenure or something. This is basically me saying I have a level of confidence and enjoyment in the team that I haven't had in a long time and you are saying that isn't the case for you. I can assure you that I am not saying you are "wrong" because in this debate you really can't be. It's how you feel. What doesn't compute with me is why now? Why is now the breaking point for you? And again, that isn't an antagonistic question-- it's literal. For me, the 1993-1998 years were probably my lowest as a Redskins fan in terms of pain I felt. That was all before Snyder. And then the most apathy I felt was from somewhere around 2006-2011; those were the years I was least engaged/interested and sort of just said "whatever." Now, my level of interest and enjoyment has substantially INCREASED over the past 3 years because they started delivering the minimum of what I had asked for so many years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CTskin Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 Man do I miss when this thread was created... We had just smokeshowed a "super bowl favorite" on primetime. We were healthy. There was ceilingless optimism. We were all on the same page. A couple of weeks later, we lost to the best team in football for the second time and now half of the fanbase wants to throw in the towel for the season. Get a grip and enjoy being a good team. We're finally normal, fighting for the playoffs consistently, and given our history it blows my mind that this is viewed as unacceptable. @kleese you're a better man than I. I'll admit that I am trying to change others' opinions and get them to see the light. Big picture- Dan Snyder will be running the show for a very long time, so we need to enjoy years like these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 25, 2017 Author Share Posted October 25, 2017 8 minutes ago, CTskin said: Man do I miss when this thread was created... We had just smokeshowed a "super bowl favorite" on primetime. We were healthy. There was ceilingless optimism. We were all on the same page. A couple of weeks later, we lost to the best team in football for the second time and now half of the fanbase wants to throw in the towel for the season. Get a grip and enjoy being a good team. We're finally normal, fighting for the playoffs consistently, and given our history it blows my mind that this is viewed as unacceptable. @kleese you're a better man than I. I'll admit that I am trying to change others' opinions and get them to see the light. Big picture- Dan Snyder will be running the show for a very long time, so we need to enjoy years like these. More or less how I feel. From 1993-1998 I was shellshocked that the Redskins WEREN'T legit Super Bowl contenders anymore. That was hard to accept. But I'm long over that. For the longest time I've wanted them to AT LEAST be "normal." They appear to be on their way to doing that (if the season tanks and we go 5-11, then I'll change my tune). But for the record, I started this thread AFTER the Chiefs game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 43 minutes ago, CTskin said: Man do I miss when this thread was created... We had just smokeshowed a "super bowl favorite" on primetime. We were healthy. There was ceilingless optimism. We were all on the same page. A couple of weeks later, we lost to the best team in football for the second time and now half of the fanbase wants to throw in the towel for the season. Get a grip and enjoy being a good team. We're finally normal, fighting for the playoffs consistently, and given our history it blows my mind that this is viewed as unacceptable. Most of us fans are way too much caring about "right now". Sure we've got tons of injuries, but after the poor outing on week 1 not so many would have guessed we would be 3-3 right now. We losses to the best 2 teams in the NFL. And we were still competitive in those games. Most of these fans will change sides if we beat Dallas. Which is still a possibility. It doesn't really matter what kind of shape your team is in September or October. Just be in the thick of things, be competitive. We're having a huge load of injuries, but we're also due to get some back later in the season. And it looks way easier come mid November / December regarding our schedule. So we should have a healthy team ready for this period. Timeline regarding NFL season is really important. Many teams have started great and faltered along the way because guys are exhausted. The most important thing is how are we doing in "tough times". And we're in it right. And we're still an OK team. Now go an take a look at three years ago and the number of prime time games we played. See how many we are doing right. This solely should tell us all that we're going in the right direction. Even Elliott Harrison from NFL.com still has us in the Top 10, and he's hardly a fan and see us in the PO talks until the end. I don't need us to put up fifty burgers on everyone to have enjoyment watching a game. Having us playing good football is OK for me. W/L, that's just sport nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted October 25, 2017 Share Posted October 25, 2017 The NFL this year more than any other in recent memory is extremely week to week. I think you're starting to see some elite teams emerge from the pack but this will be one of those years a 9 or 10 win team gets hot late and wins it all. Just get to meaningful football in December and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Warhead36 said: The NFL this year more than any other in recent memory is extremely week to week. I think you're starting to see some elite teams emerge from the pack but this will be one of those years a 9 or 10 win team gets hot late and wins it all. Just get to meaningful football in December and see what happens. You already know what will happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 4 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said: You already know what will happen Losing to the 1-14 Giants week 17 to miss the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Or worse, blowing a game earlier, having nothing to play for, and still losing anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Come out these next two games 5-3 or at worst 4-4 and competitive in both with all our injuries and you will see a shift in the overall confidence. It's recency bias. That's all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 That would be a boost (winning with this injury impact), but I don't think it's only the bias. There are legitimate concerns with this team. Receiver struggles, blocking from the receivers and TEs, defensive play on 3rd downs and in clutch situations, running back talent (though I'm coming around on Kelley a bit), and coaching. Injuries aside, our strengths seem to be at qb, corner and Oline. I think we're getting decent production from our safeties and backs (when we do/can commit), and pretty good work from our dline, TEs, OLBs and ILBs. We can certainly win with all of that, regardless of uneven production from our receivers and run game. Injuries have reduced two of our strengths though, and that hurts (pun intended). Need to get Nsheke and Norman back, and Scherff/Moses healthy (healthy enough to play at a high level). Once that happens, I think we'll get back to that top 10 status. If we can contend late (and injuries don't completely derail us), it would be pretty awesome to get Allen back. Next week or 2 are going to be... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaxBuddy21 Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Oh there are definitely concerns but there are with every team. It's about who can win in spite of their shortcomings. Doing so over the next two weeks will give people a lot of hope about what we can be during the second half as we get better and healthier. Right now, our only losses are to top teams and I don't think anyone thinks we couldn't beat both of them. Start losing to middle of the pack teams and the feeling starts to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.