A Confidence I Haven't Had in 25 Years

[USS Redskins]

No confidence here  at all. I hoped of course....but IMO they are regressing. They were beat by the best team last night, and quite easily. Philly never feared the skins. They just kept patient and wentz picked the D apart.

The offense disappears for 2+ qtrs every week and can’t catch up. They scored 17 points outside of junk time. Sorry, not impressed. Philly has an awful secondary... 

 

They are just the blah team we all love. Worse than last year.

The week before they barely beat the worst team in the league. 

They don’t suck they just aren’t really very good. 

And with KC possibly leaving... well so much to look forward to. 

Bruce Allen may be the biggest jackass of all time as a GM. 

 

 

 

[LaxBuddy21]

I'm not sure requiring a Houdini act and a ridiculous throw that couldn't have been placed anywhere else was quite easily. That game was a dog fight up until the end but Wentz went to another level when he needed to and our defense wasn't up to the challenge. They are a better team for now. Doesn't mean they will be by the end of the season. We could be what we are now the whole way but I still have some faith that we will be a better team down the stretch. Let's see how it plays out. 

[Mr. Sinister]

Yup.

 

We never learn

[GhostofSparta]

4 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

Yup.

 

We never learn

[Mr. Sinister]

Lol, one of these days, this team will inspire me in that manner. Or maybe I'll be dead and buried, and they'll still be spinning their wheels, being run by a Snyder genetic clone or something.

[kleese]

1993: 4-12

1994: 3-13

1995: 6-10

1996: 9-7

1997: 8-7-1

1998: 6-10

1999: 10-6*

2000: 8-8

2001: 8-8

2002: 7-9

2003: 5-11

2004: 6-10

2005: 10-6*

2006: 5-11

2007: 9-7*

2008: 8-8

2009: 4-12

2010: 6-10

2011: 5-11

2012: 10-6*

2013: 3-13

2014: 4-12

2015: 9-7*

2016: 8-7-1

2017: ???

 

This is why I do NOT think "same ole' Redskins" right now.... because it ISN'T same ole Redskins right now.

 

Asterik means they made the playoffs; bold means they were in the playoff race (or already clinched) entering game #16. So literally 2015-16 were the first back to back years since 91-92 we could claim to be playoff contenders until the end. We will see how the remaining 10 games play out. I am NOT confident will we exceed where we were the past two years-- but I am confident we won't tank.

 

And yes, if we go 9-7 this year and miss the playoffs, I will ABSOLUTELY consider that an improvement from where we've been and not a waste of time. Just consult the above to understand why. Sometimes you need to crawl before you walk. If we first have to get the level where we don't absolutely suck every other year before we take another step, then so be it.

[TheItalianStallion]

Too early to bail. Guys are still figuring things out and we're being badly bitten by the injury bug now. Even guys who stay on the field are having to tough it out.

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

I do agree that still have playoff hopes in October for 3 straight years has been quite nice. First time in my lifetime.

 

Still, I’m getting numb to it all. We’re still no closer to being a great team. 

 

I kinda hate sports right now 

[Mr. Sinister]

1 minute ago, TheItalianStallion said:

Too early to bail. Guys are still figuring things out and we're being badly bitten by the injury bug now. 

 

Still figuring things out heading into Wk 8, and being ridiculously bitten by the injury bug at the same time?

 

I have an idea.... [Lunges for parachute]

[Voice_of_Reason]

The worst thing that can happen to this team is finish 8-8.  They'll blame injuries and line it up the same way next year for 8-8. 

[TheItalianStallion]

10 minutes ago, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Still figuring things out heading into Wk 8, and being ridiculously bitten by the injury bug at the same time?

 

I have an idea.... [Lunges for parachute]

 

There's also a third thing: we still have a non-losing record also at the same time. 

[kleese]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The worst thing that can happen to this team is finish 8-8.  They'll blame injuries and line it up the same way next year for 8-8. 

 

Disagree. While I certainly don't ASPIRE to be 8-8, it beats going 3-13 any day. Maybe if we were an ancient team with no youth whatsoever you'd be looking for a tear-down and rebuild, but that's not our situation. As a fan, middling and competing for the playoffs is WAY more fun/interesting than just outright sucking. This isn't the NBA where you almost must sink to the depths before you can climb back up. That drastic swing isn't necessary in the NFL. 

[kleese]

18 minutes ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I do agree that still have playoff hopes in October for 3 straight years has been quite nice. First time in my lifetime.

 

Still, I’m getting numb to it all. We’re still no closer to being a great team. 

 

I kinda hate sports right now 

 

You don't need to be great in the NFL to win. The 2012 Super Bowl Champion Ravens were not great. The 2011 Super Bowl Champion Giants were not great-- they may not have even been all that good. The Falcons last year were not great. 

 

In the NFL it pays off to "hang around." Just be a playoff contender consistently and maybe you get it all to fall your way one year. Maybe your otherwise meh QB (Flacco) gets white-hot for a month? Maybe the team you play in the playoffs (49ers) fumbles two punts inside their own 25 yard line setting you up for a win (Giants)? 

 

Sure it it would be best to be like the Pats who are just great and don't need to rely on chance and "getting hot." But most teams aren't the Pats. If we go 8-8 or better this year I'll be pretty happy about what that signals to me. 

[NoCalMike]

I could see 9-7 and still missing the playoffs.  Doing the math and looking across the NFC, it could be hard to nab a wild card spot unless the 'Skins end up 4-2 vs the NFC East, which they are already in an 0-2 hole for.

[Mr. Sinister]

7 hours ago, NoCalMike said:

I could see 9-7 and still missing the playoffs.  Doing the math and looking across the NFC, it could be hard to nab a wild card spot unless the 'Skins end up 4-2 vs the NFC East, which they are already in an 0-2 hole for.

 

Which is why I said a couple weeks ago that despite the blip of confidence after @ KC, math was math, and they needed to show well in the rest of their NFC East games, and when factoring in the rest of the ADX and NDC West, they could only afford to lose maybe 4 more games before things got precarious

[Diehard Otis]

8 hours ago, TheItalianStallion said:

Too early to bail. Guys are still figuring things out and we're being badly bitten by the injury bug now. Even guys who stay on the field are having to tough it out.

I agree with this.  Every time we lose, there's hysteria.  To me, it's far too soon for that.

 

Sitting at .500 given our schedule to date isn't a colossal failure.  The fellas still got time to get it together.

 

But we do gotta Win on Sunday.

[kleese]

9-7 likely puts you on the 50/50 line this like it does most years. If we finish 9-7 my guess is it comes down to tie-breakers and it will all depend on who is there at the end. At this point I don't think NFC East record matters all that much; more just NFC overall and getting head to head tie-breakers over competing teams. If we go 9-7 it likely means we beat some and lost to some. I do think at least one 9-7 team comes out of the NFC this year as a WC. 

1 hour ago, Diehard Otis said:

I agree with this.  Every time we lose, there's hysteria.  To me, it's far too soon for that.

 

Sitting at .500 given our schedule to date isn't a colossal failure.  The fellas still got time to get it together.

 

But we do gotta Win on Sunday.

 

I actually think we might lose the next two.... then you will REALLY see hysteria at 3-5  

 

But then I could see us beating Minnesota and New Orleans (we fare well against one dimensial QBs who don't run much) to get even at 5-5 going into the Giants game on Turkey Day. 

 

In other words, I think we are at least two more losses away from being in "must win" territory. 

[Captain James]

I feel like we all need to calm the crap down. WE'VE BEEN IN EVERY GAME thus far. There ARE signs of improvement. It's ridiculous the amount of injuries we've had so far this season. That seems to be a major factor in our current record. Let's get healthier and just see how things play out.

 

*Don't get me wrong, I fully believe in the #DCSportsCurse; I just see the Skins mostly battling injuries right now.

On 10/23/2017 at 11:50 PM, Warhead36 said:

Give me meaningful football in December.

 

I don't give an F about draft position. This is the NFL, great players are available at every pick in every round.

 

And no matter how hard we try, we won't tank enough to be as bad as the likes of Cleveland, San Fran, or Indy.

I think I just "liked" three of your posts in a row on this same page. Good stuff.

[Voice_of_Reason]

10 hours ago, kleese said:

 

Disagree. While I certainly don't ASPIRE to be 8-8, it beats going 3-13 any day. Maybe if we were an ancient team with no youth whatsoever you'd be looking for a tear-down and rebuild, but that's not our situation. As a fan, middling and competing for the playoffs is WAY more fun/interesting than just outright sucking. This isn't the NBA where you almost must sink to the depths before you can climb back up. That drastic swing isn't necessary in the NFL. 

I disagree.  I'm now firmly convinced that Gruden is an 8-8 coach a la Norv and Marvin.  8-8 perpetually is meaningless. (And I thrown 9-7 and 7-9 in there as essentially 8-8.

 

He's stupid at personnel, can't manage the clock worth a damn, stubbornly plays less-talented players, is dumb with hiring coaches and delegating responsibility.  IF he was to hire an OC and out-source the offense and the 'Skins get a legitimate GM, then there's a chance he could be an above average coach.

 

With this structure we're well on our way to 8-8 every year and then losing 7 wild-card games in the random years we make the playoffs. 

 

I would much prefer a 3-13 or worse wake-up call for Dan to see that what he's got just isn't going to work, and he has to change things, and change them starting with Bruce.  It might take 2 3-13's in a row, though.  And I don't see that happening because Jay is JUST competent enough to field an average team.

 

Let's say they go 8-8/9-7 this year.  Definite possibility.  "We had a lot of injuries.  We got unlucky.  We looked good for 2 weeks.  We're almost there."  They sign Kirk to the Transition Tag, and then they bring back essentially the same guys.  There won't be a lot of additions of talent, we'll stick with the "try hard Gruden Guys" and we're back to 8-8 again next year.  Wash-rinse repeat.  Because that's comfortable.

 

If the goal is to win a championship, then this doesn't get you there.  We need an organizational structure change.  I'm not sure that's ever going to happen under Dan, but that's what we need.  And if there was a CHANCE of that happening if we tanked, I'd be all for it.  

 

Ultimately, this all starts at the top.  Dan is comfortable with Bruce, Bruce is comfortable with Jay and Doug Williams, and the team is comfortable going 8-8 every year.  

 

 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

38 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

.....

 

If the goal is to win a championship, then this doesn't get you there.  We need an organizational structure change.  I'm not sure that's ever going to happen under Dan, but that's what we need.  And if there was a CHANCE of that happening if we tanked, I'd be all for it.  

 

Ultimately, this all starts at the top.  Dan is comfortable with Bruce, Bruce is comfortable with Jay and Doug Williams, and the team is comfortable going 8-8 every year.  

 

 

 

 

I used to stand up for (Stupidly. As you probably berated me at the time among many others) for lil' Danny just being misguided and actually wanting to win as much as the next man in his own, albeit ass-backward, F-ed up way. 

 

Along with having the same, naive, misguided 'hope' year-on-year that Big Ed is still clinging vainly too in making this thread. 

 

It's that hope that ultimately kills you. And after 35 years of doing this, I'm literally all hoped out. The last nigh on 3 decades since of almost constant mediocrity that rivals ANYTHING the dregs of this league has to offer has just totally worn me down to this point. As it has with many. 

 

It was rekindled when we hired Mac and it 'appeared' to be turning back to an actual, professionally run football organisation for the first time since JKC and Bobby and Coach. Only to have them fool every last one of us yet again to then swipe the rug out from under our feet. Placing us back in this never-ending pit of mediocrity I'm now resigned to be forever mired in.

 

I feel SO privileged to of grown up a Redskin through the 80's glory years as Honest to God I don't think I'll see another Lombardi for the B&G in my lifetime. And it ALL stems from the bolded. He's never selling. The Redskins are FAR too profitable an organisation for him to ever do that. He's relatively young at 52. Being in my 40's, he'll probably be the last owner of this once great franchise I'll ever know. And he's consistently shown absolutely NO long-term capacity for change which has me fully concurring with what I quoted. He's comfortable just massaging his ego as owner and coining it in. He makes out he wants to win. But his actions FAR belie that. 

 

I just can't get down with middling around .500 being a positive as it's a step up from being under that. With no end in sight to ever take the next leap back to even a double-digit win season. Let alone a deep playoff run and SB contention. Yeah, we MIGHT hit lucky if everything aligns one year and every other team has a poor season. But that shouldn't be the aim. It should be consistent success and an organisation we can be proud to support. Swear down, I've honestly forgotten what that feels like. (Not the success. That emotion has LONG since left the building. But any actual pride in this continued ****show of an organisation.). 

 

I slept through Monday nights game. Seriously. Put the TV on. Settled down in bed. (It kicked 1:30 AM here.). And woke to some nature show. Outside of being abroad like missing the '9ers game being in Slovenia the week before, I can't remember the last time I missed watching the Redskins. And the real sad thing ..... As soon as I'd checked the score, all it rendered was a 'shrug' and I wasn't assed about not having seen it. At all. 

 

It's a seriously horrible state of affairs to say I only watch now out of habit. I always doubtless will. I'm a Redskin. You can't change your team or just walk away. But the pathetic justification now isn't born out of love/ expectation/ hope/ excitement/ insert whatever positive of your choice. It's purely that it's something I've always done and I know little else come Sunday's. 

 

Hate is a horrible emotion. About the worst we have as humans. But I've now come full circle on Snyder to seriously hating the man. Down to him settling, or as you so pertinently described it, 'comfortable' ..... Comfortable with being mediocre and never having the ambition to go beyond that. 

 

All power to Kleese and anyone else still holding onto that hope and confidence I guess. For those are the very last things that come to mind today personally when I think about the once great football franchise that hooked me as something special way back in 1982/83. 

 

Now, it's just like following any other middle-to bottom dwelling ramshackle, amateur-run outfit out there. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

[Dissident2]

15 hours ago, USS Redskins said:

Bruce Allen may be the biggest jackass of all time as a GM. 

 

Can't be overstated. Starts at the top. He's effectively thrown the entire organization into disarray over the last two years with his decisions and duplicitous conduct. 

[Warhead36]

Our three losses are to the two best teams in the league.

 

What has me worried is the injuries, but there really isn't anything we can do about that.

[OB28]

12 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

The worst thing that can happen to this team is finish 8-8.  They'll blame injuries and line it up the same way next year for 8-8. 

This truly is the voice of reason.

[kleese]

30 minutes ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

I used to stand up for (Stupidly. As you probably berated me at the time among many others) for lil' Danny just being misguided and actually wanting to win as much as the next man in his own, albeit ass-backward, F-ed up way. 

 

Along with having the same, naive, misguided 'hope' year-on-year that Big Ed is still clinging vainly too in making this thread. 

 

It's that hope that ultimately kills you. And after 35 years of doing this, I'm literally all hoped out. The last nigh on 3 decades since of almost constant mediocrity that rivals ANYTHING the dregs of this league has to offer has just totally worn me down to this point. As it has with many. 

 

It was rekindled when we hired Mac and it 'appeared' to be turning back to an actual, professionally run football organisation for the first time since JKC and Bobby and Coach. Only to have them fool every last one of us yet again to then swipe the rug out from under our feet. Placing us back in this never-ending pit of mediocrity I'm now resigned to be forever mired in.

 

I feel SO privileged to of grown up a Redskin through the 80's glory years as Honest to God I don't think I'll see another Lombardi for the B&G in my lifetime. And it ALL stems from the bolded. He's never selling. The Redskins are FAR too profitable an organisation for him to ever do that. He's relatively young at 52. Being in my 40's, he'll probably be the last owner of this once great franchise I'll ever know. And he's consistently shown absolutely NO long-term capacity for change which has me fully concurring with what I quoted. He's comfortable just massaging his ego as owner and coining it in. He makes out he wants to win. But his actions FAR belie that. 

 

I just can't get down with middling around .500 being a positive as it's a step up from being under that. With no end in sight to ever take the next leap back to even a double-digit win season. Let alone a deep playoff run and SB contention. Yeah, we MIGHT hit lucky if everything aligns one year and every other team has a poor season. But that shouldn't be the aim. It should be consistent success and an organisation we can be proud to support. Swear down, I've honestly forgotten what that feels like. (Not the success. That emotion has LONG since left the building. But any actual pride in this continued ****show of an organisation.). 

 

I slept through Monday nights game. Seriously. Put the TV on. Settled down in bed. (It kicked 1:30 AM here.). And woke to some nature show. Outside of being abroad like missing the '9ers game being in Slovenia the week before, I can't remember the last time I missed watching the Redskins. And the real sad thing ..... As soon as I'd checked the score, all it rendered was a 'shrug' and I wasn't assed about not having seen it. At all. 

 

It's a seriously horrible state of affairs to say I only watch now out of habit. I always doubtless will. I'm a Redskin. You can't change your team or just walk away. But the pathetic justification now isn't born out of love/ expectation/ hope/ excitement/ insert whatever positive of your choice. It's purely that it's something I've always done and I know little else come Sunday's. 

 

Hate is a horrible emotion. About the worst we have as humans. But I've now come full circle on Snyder to seriously hating the man. Down to him settling, or as you so pertinently described it, 'comfortable' ..... Comfortable with being mediocre and never having the ambition to go beyond that. 

 

All power to Kleese and anyone else still holding onto that hope and confidence I guess. For those are the very last things that come to mind today personally when I think about the once great football franchise that hooked me as something special way back in 1982/83. 

 

Now, it's just like following any other middle-to bottom dwelling ramshackle, amateur-run outfit out there. 

 

Hail. 

 

 

 

You are at your dramatic best here GHH

 

You and others keep saying "we are destined to continue to be mired in mediocrity." For me, we are first STRIVING for mediocrity. We haven't been mediocre for 25 years-- we have been FAR worse than that. So a turn to consistent mediocrity IS a step in the right direction to me. We are also doing a MUCH MUCH better job of player evaluation. We find better players and players develop better now than they used to. In the past, we never had stories like Quentin Dunbar and our FA swings were almost all misses-- now we add guys like Norman and Zach Brown that can play.

 

Personally, these past few years have been WAY more enjoyable as a fan than any other period during the first post Gibbs I era. Gibbs II had it's moments, but I actually feel this team has more upside than that team did-- more dynamic talents on the roster.

 

For me, it's all about let's first get out of the muck of being a laughable joke as a franchise. I used to sit and envy other fanbases that just had normal teams. I'd envy fanbases that had reason to care in December. For 25 years, we rarely did. Now, it appears that maybe (let's see how the rest of this season plays out) we might be one of those "normal" organizations.

 

The Cowboys went 8-8 three years in a row largely with the same cast. The fourth year they went 12-4. You do not need to get bad in order to get good in the NFL. Not how it works. Stay in the .500 zone, keep hitting more than miss on personnel, and then hopefully things break right and you get a big year or two. In the meantime, you get a competent, competitive team that plays meaningful games all year--- yes, that is good enough for me.

 

And all this mumbo jumbo about a "once great franchise.."  Let's be honest, we had a great decade. That was it. It was pretty much all Gibbs. As soon as Gibbs left, we fell apart and JKC and his family made moves that were as bad if not worse than Snyder. And prior to Gibbs, the Redskins weren't a great franchise either. As a matter of fact, do you know they went 25 YEARS WITHOUT MAKING THE PLAYOFFS ONE TIME? George Allen got things back in the right direction, although you could say the 70's Redskins were more or less mediocre with a high point in the early 70's. But they didn't really follow that up well and the Pardee years were a big letdown. Then Gibbs comes and we go crazy for a decade. The Redskins history as a franchise really isn't all that storied or proud-- we've been around a long time, but we've really only had one man that truly gave them their glory years. Let's not forget that JKC invested in Petitbone, Norv, and Casserly to replace Gibbs-- and he built FedEx too.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

4 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

You are at your dramatic best here GHH

 

.....

 

 

Is this where I accuse you of trying to sell everyone on a complete lie of hope to an organisation with no structure going nowhere fast. As it hasn't been for the past going on three decades and counting. However you want to jazz it up as somehow positive as slightly better than it has been. ****es ****e however you want to dress it up. 

 

Is that how that works when we disagree Ed?

 

Hail.