A Confidence I Haven't Had in 25 Years

[skins island connection]

 

 I think back, and wonder, what if; what if somehow, whether by a stroke of pure luck, an off-the-wall trick play, ANYTHING, that would have turned into a Redskins win against KC, I'd be a lot more confident.

They went into KC and took it to them, and that's not something we're used to seeing. We've seen in the past where we beat a good team, then the next week look as if they couldn't tie their shoe laces, but that's not what we saw, at least I didn't.

 

 I guess my mind will be made up when we come off bye and line up against a good defense but a lousy offense; if they play like they did in KC, but win, then i'll really start to believe this team is going places. But I have to see it first. But in order for me to believe they belong in the big boy group, they have to believe it themselves, and an all-business approach will get them places.

[Koolblue13]

Damn kleese, the way you talk about the old days and the how it usetabes I thought you were in your 70's. 

 

I'm older than you. 

 

After 2015 I had that confidence and enthusiasm. That's why I've been so pissed off for a year. I've only seen the first 2 game this year. Really just the Eagles game, because, well hurricanes,  sounds like we're looking great though and hopefully by the 49ers game, I can actually see us play again.

[Mr. Sinister]

Confidence, but at the end of the day, 2-2 is 2-2. We still have the rest if the AFC/NFC West to play, and have played one game in the NFC East. They can only afford to lose 4 more games before they'll likely need outside help, and with the way injuries are trending, we can't have stuff like last year or even last week, where they make stupid mistakes that cost them W's. Hopefully it's behind them.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

On 10/6/2017 at 1:21 PM, MassSkinsFan said:

 

Remember all that talk about "Learning to Win?"

 

Well, that's over - WE KNOW HOW TO WIN!!!

 

I'm not trying to be the cold water, but we've had a few false starts through the years...

 

In 1996-1999 Norv seemed to have it very close to figured out. We had a young team started both seasons strong but couldn't close it out. I'm sure at 7-1 in 1996 or 6-4 in 1997 or when we clinched with a game to go in 1999 we felt pretty optimistic or hopeful that we had turned it around. 

 

In 2005-2008 we had another surge of 10-6, 9-7, and a 6-2 start over a 4 year period. For this franchise, that was a pretty sustained run of competitive football. 

 

I don't mean to say that I think we are doomed. But I don't think a four-game stretch (two of which we found a way to lose, by the way) really proves that we know how to win. I need a lot more evidence. 

 

 

[kleese]

12 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'm not trying to be the cold water, but we've had a few false starts through the years...

 

In 1996-1999 Norv seemed to have it very close to figured out. We had a young team started both seasons strong but couldn't close it out. I'm sure at 7-1 in 1996 or 6-4 in 1997 or when we clinched with a game to go in 1999 we felt pretty optimistic or hopeful that we had turned it around. 

 

In 2005-2008 we had another surge of 10-6, 9-7, and a 6-2 start over a 4 year period. For this franchise, that was a pretty sustained run of competitive football. 

 

I don't mean to say that I think we are doomed. But I don't think a four-game stretch (two of which we found a way to lose, by the way) really proves that we know how to win. I need a lot more evidence. 

 

 

 

I don't feel the way I do because I feel we've "proven" anything. We're 2-2 and we have one relatively ugly loss, so by no means have we do anything special or noteworthy this year. 

 

My confidence stems from from the fact that I think this is the best collection of players we've had in 25 years. We started 7-1 in 1996 and 6-2 in 2008, but this team has far more talent than either of those two teams. By a mile. And that's what I'm talking about here-- I felt this way all summer and now that I see it in action, I see a team that is already pretty solid, but with the potential to get much, much better in the coming weeks. 

[goskins10]

8 hours ago, kleese said:

 

I don't feel the way I do because I feel we've "proven" anything. We're 2-2 and we have one relatively ugly loss, so by no means have we do anything special or noteworthy this year. 

 

My confidence stems from from the fact that I think this is the best collection of players we've had in 25 years. We started 7-1 in 1996 and 6-2 in 2008, but this team has far more talent than either of those two teams. By a mile. And that's what I'm talking about here-- I felt this way all summer and now that I see it in action, I see a team that is already pretty solid, but with the potential to get much, much better in the coming weeks. 

 

I generally agree with your thoughts. Two things to add/ponder.

 

1. Is it time to admit maybe Philly is that good instead of us being that bad? I know several did not have a great game, but Philly is making many look like that. I was frustrated by that game too. But the more the season goes on, it looks Philly could be for real, as much as it pains me to say that.

 

2. Until we beat the 49rers, and handily I am not allowing myself to get too excited. I have seen this movie too many items. That does not mean I don't share your assessment of the talent. I think this team has more talent that in a long time. However, that has not stopped us from laying a huge egg when we should be expected to put someone away before. If we beat the 49ers like we should, then I may allow myself the luxury of being more optimistic about the rest of the season.

[zoony]

Philly is the best team in the east and dallas having swept us easily last year is largely the same team.

 

We will have at least 7 losses this year.  Thats something Im confident in.  The Redskins are an improved team with a chance to be good.  I think most fans have been watching a dog turd for so long theyve forgotten what competence looks like.  They are confusing it with dominance

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, kleese said:

 

I don't feel the way I do because I feel we've "proven" anything. We're 2-2 and we have one relatively ugly loss, so by no means have we do anything special or noteworthy this year. 

 

My confidence stems from from the fact that I think this is the best collection of players we've had in 25 years. We started 7-1 in 1996 and 6-2 in 2008, but this team has far more talent than either of those two teams. By a mile. And that's what I'm talking about here-- I felt this way all summer and now that I see it in action, I see a team that is already pretty solid, but with the potential to get much, much better in the coming weeks. 

 

Coming from one of the optimists (and I'm still optimsitc) before the season as for this year's record, I still think we need the movie to play out before we have total confidence.  They had 1 dominant performance out of 4 games.  The Chiefs game started well but the defense couldn't get off the field and they allowed the Chiefs to control the clock.  The defense still struggles on third downs and failed to stop the opponent on a key drive with less than a minute to go with the game on the line. Now, Norman is out for awhile.  

 

The Eagles rematch coming up soon looms large.  If they win or lose that game will likely have major ripple effects.  It's odd to say considering this team's recent offensive success but it looks like we got somethings to sort out on the receiver crew.  So far, really no one has stepped up enough including the banged up Crowder or Reed.   I got hopes for Doctson but will see.   Pryor to me has been disappointing so far.  Crowder and Reed haven't really been factors.  

 

I believe the offense will continue to get better.  I think the defense is the real deal.  But its a short sample size.  There is plenty of time to see if this team has made a leap forward (and I suspect they will) or its one of those stints during the season (we've had our share) where it feels like a corner has turned but a losing streak comes.   This team has had its teases which felt good.  I suspect this isn't just a tease.  I think the next two games are telling from a culture-turning things around point of view. 

 

49ers game:  the 49ers aren't as bad as they look.  They've lost mostly close games.  Without Norman to stop him, I think Garcon could be dangerous.  The same old Redskins would lose a game like this every year.  Every season, there seems to be a loss out of the blue to a struggling team.  In their defense, almost every NFL team has a game like that.    So this game is an important IMO get over the hump game.

 

Eagles game:  I just don't see how they can get swept by the Eagles and still be considered the class of the division.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I would have preferred the 49ers to win yesterday.  They have to win eventually and it's not like they are getting blown out of the stadium.  Like the OP, I'm confident this is the best roster we've had in a very long time.  At the same time, as another poster indicated - this is the kind of game we lose, coming off a bye against what appears to be an inferior team.  A part of me expects our DL to collapse the pocket and crush Hoyer allowing us to skate by without Norman.  The part of me that can't let go of history is expecting a squeaker that will piss us off even if we pull out the win.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

9 hours ago, kleese said:

 

I don't feel the way I do because I feel we've "proven" anything. We're 2-2 and we have one relatively ugly loss, so by no means have we do anything special or noteworthy this year. 

 

My confidence stems from from the fact that I think this is the best collection of players we've had in 25 years. We started 7-1 in 1996 and 6-2 in 2008, but this team has far more talent than either of those two teams. By a mile. And that's what I'm talking about here-- I felt this way all summer and now that I see it in action, I see a team that is already pretty solid, but with the potential to get much, much better in the coming weeks. 

Understood - my response was more about MassSkinFan's comment that we know how to win. I'm not sure how anyone can come to that conclusion, especially after we've dropped two "winnable" games already. 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

53 minutes ago, zoony said:

Philly is the best team in the east and dallas having swept us easily last year is largely the same team.

 

We will have at least 7 losses this year.  Thats something Im confident in.  The Redskins are an improved team with a chance to be good.  I think most fans have been watching a dog turd for so long theyve forgotten what competence looks like.  They are confusing it with dominance

 

Philly's first 5 games are a bitter-sweet thing for me. On one hand, it validates that we're a decent-to-good team because that loss doesn't look as bad. On the other hand, it essentially makes our rematch in two weeks a must-win if we want to win the division. I hate that an entire season comes down an October match up. 

 

I like the word you used. I truly believe that we are a good, competent team. Especially when you zoom out and look at the progression under Gruden with this core. The arc from 2014 - 2017 is promising. We've seen it once before since we exited the NFL stage in 1993. That was under Turner from 1994 - 1999. We climbed from 3-13 to 10-6 and division champs. Most of those seasons were improvements with one lateral move (basically) from 1996 to 1997 and then a horrible slide backwards from 1997 to 1998. But the overall trend was improvement. Turner was never able to take that next step...I hope Gruden can. 

 

I'm still of the mindset that unless we go 4-12 or 12-4, this year is relatively insignificant. It all comes down to what we do to keep this group of players together. If next year's team doesn't have Cousins, Brown, etc. then we are largely starting over and much of the progression we've seen through the previous 2-3 years will be wiped away. 

[Suffolk_Skins]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

I would have preferred the 49ers to win yesterday.  They have to win eventually and it's not like they are getting blown out of the stadium.  Like the OP, I'm confident this is the best roster we've had in a very long time.  At the same time, as another poster indicated - this is the kind of game we lose, coming off a bye against what appears to be an inferior team.  A part of me expects our DL to collapse the pocket and crush Hoyer allowing us to skate by without Norman.  The part of me that can't let go of history is expecting a squeaker that will piss us off even if we pull out the win.

 

If we are the real deal we should blow them out of the stadium, that's what the Eagles done to Arizona yesterday and clearly the 49ers are at that same level as the cards. I didn;t want them to win, if they did they would be coming to Fedex trying to get to the same amount of wins as us. Garcon and Shanny aside do you think this teams heart will be really in it if they go down early. Let's prove we are the teal deal. Then onto Philly

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'm still of the mindset that unless we go 4-12 or 12-4, this year is relatively insignificant. It all comes down to what we do to keep this group of players together. If next year's team doesn't have Cousins, Brown, etc. then we are largely starting over and much of the progression we've seen through the previous 2-3 years will be wiped away. 

 

Word of warning never sleep on any season in the NFL or start predicting success in the following one, this sport as we know is just too unpredictable. 

[skinny21]

It would be easy to overlook the 49ers a bit with the Eagles looming.  

 

With the Eagle's success, a MNF game at their house could be a tough atmosphere.  Would be nice to have Norman and Nsheke back, but I'm not sure they'll be ready yet.  

 

The good news is that, injuries aside, this team should keep getting better.  Receiving corp has some talent, they just need to get it going.  Jay committing to the run helps the line and Kirk, and the defense (with lots of youth and new faces) is still gelling.  

[Reaper Skins]

We have more talent than in years past which is encouraging.  But we still have the annoying tendency of being our own worst enemy.  Until we can shake our habit of beating ourselves on gameday, this team will never reach the upper echelon.  We are a hardworking team.  We are not a smart team.  You need both to reach the top.

 

Our lack of situational awareness remains this team's Achilles heel.  Not knowing when to go for the kill shot, not knowing when to hurry up and spike the ball to avoid a review on a catch, missing wide open receivers because you were staring down a different one, calling timeouts that leave your opponent with enough clock to win, costly penalties that negate more than half of our "big plays" each game.  

 

We need to stop shooting ourselves in the foot, then I'll get on the bandwagon.  Sick of seeing them play two opponents each week, themselves and the other team.

[TheGreek1973]

2 hours ago, zoony said:

Philly is the best team in the east and dallas having swept us easily last year is largely the same team.

 

We will have at least 7 losses this year.  Thats something Im confident in.  The Redskins are an improved team with a chance to be good.  I think most fans have been watching a dog turd for so long theyve forgotten what competence looks like.  They are confusing it with dominance

Keep drinking Zoony.

 

they should have lost to SD, and we were one bad play away (KC INT instead of hitting Crowder for a TD) to lose to us.  yesterday they played a very faulted Arizona team, the same team that let a Boys team come back on them in Arizona.  yes they are good but for you to say they are the best without seeing the second game in two weeks and then put the boys...hahahahahaha....in the same sentence as them or even us.  

 

yes GB is awesome with Rodgers kicking but man they got so many injuries to that OL and backfield, our D, playing as it did against KC win this game hands down.

 

Anyway we will see.  That is why they play the games.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

37 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

Word of warning never sleep on any season in the NFL or start predicting success in the following one, this sport as we know is just too unpredictable. 

 

I'm not necessarily predicting success based on anything. I just think we have a much higher chance of sustaining our upward trend if we bring back our key players on offense and defense. 

 

But, your first point is valid...if this is a special season (12+ wins and playoff success) then that overshadows that long-term stuff to me. I just don't think the odds are very high that we're going to be very good (or very bad this year) which, to me, makes it more critical that we have continuity. 

[Suffolk_Skins]

10 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm not necessarily predicting success based on anything. I just think we have a much higher chance of sustaining our upward trend if we bring back our key players on offense and defense. 

 

But, your first point is valid...if this is a special season (12+ wins and playoff success) then that overshadows that long-term stuff to me. I just don't think the odds are very high that we're going to be very good (or very bad this year) which, to me, makes it more critical that we have continuity. 

 

It won't take 12 wins to get in the playoffs and then anything can happen.

22 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

Keep drinking Zoony.

 

they should have lost to SD, and we were one bad play away (KC INT instead of hitting Crowder for a TD) to lose to us.  yesterday they played a very faulted Arizona team, the same team that let a Boys team come back on them in Arizona.  yes they are good but for you to say they are the best without seeing the second game in two weeks and then put the boys...hahahahahaha....in the same sentence as them or even us.  

 

yes GB is awesome with Rodgers kicking but man they got so many injuries to that OL and backfield, our D, playing as it did against KC win this game hands down.

 

Anyway we will see.  That is why they play the games.  

 

Hold on was that pick on the throw to Crowder in OT then? Or were we about to go up 21?

 

They are clearly good, look at their D front, if Wentz has time very dangerous. That said I think we can match them. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'm still of the mindset that unless we go 4-12 or 12-4, this year is relatively insignificant. It all comes down to what we do to keep this group of players together. If next year's team doesn't have Cousins, Brown, etc. then we are largely starting over and much of the progression we've seen through the previous 2-3 years will be wiped away. 

 

I agree but I'd add that I think the FO is less likely to get in their own way if they have a good season.  I think even Bruce (who has IMO a wretched feel for PR) would understand that if the Redskins are a force this season -- doing a reset after a season like that would look insane to the fan base.  

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, Suffolk_Skins said:

 

It won't take 12 wins to get in the playoffs and then anything can happen.

 

Of course it won't...all I'm really trying to say is this:

 

Unless this season is either very bad (top-5 draft pick) or very good (a serious run through January) in my mind it all comes down to what happens AFTER the season. Any organizational momentum, etc. will only be sustained if we retain Cousins, Brown, and re-sign some of the other key players whose contracts are set to expire. If I knew Cousins was coming back next year, it would be easy to be encouraged by a 10-6 season and one playoff win. It would feel like a building block. If it seems like he's leaving, what good is that? It's almost like this is a lame duck season until we are assured it's not. Does that make sense?

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I agree but I'd add that I think the FO is less likely to get in their own way if they have a good season.  I think even Bruce (who has IMO a wretched feel for PR) would understand that if the Redskins are a force this season -- doing a reset after a season like that would look insane to the fan base.  

That's a hope of mine. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

Of course it won't...all I'm really trying to say is this:

 

Unless this season is either very bad (top-5 draft pick) or very good (a serious run through January) in my mind it all comes down to what happens AFTER the season. Any organizational momentum, etc. will only be sustained if we retain Cousins, Brown, and re-sign some of the other key players whose contracts are set to expire. If I knew Cousins was coming back next year, it would be easy to be encouraged by a 10-6 season and one playoff win. It would feel like a building block. If it seems like he's leaving, what good is that? It's almost like this is a lame duck season until we are assured it's not. Does that make sense?

That's a hope of mine. 

 

The funny thing is if you track national media, many are still counting on Kirk being a 49er next season.   I've noticed 49er fans in blogs too see Kirk as the next step in their rebuild.  

 

This game coming up might be a chapter in that saga.   Garcon thus far looks better than any receiver we got on our roster even with Hoyer throwing him the ball.  49ers played 4 of their 5 games real tight.  To your point, I'm hoping for a big victory on Sunday.  A loss or even a tight victory might add to the narrative of heck all you do is throw Kirk from the Redskins to the 49ers and boom the 49ers are the better team.  We potentially will see some narrative one way or another coming up.

 

I think we are safe from the Rams. Goff looks good enough.  We aren't safe though from the 49ers, yet. Love Zach Brown but middle linebackers typically don't get paid big.  I think they will work that one out.

[Suffolk_Skins]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The funny thing is if you track national media, many are still counting on Kirk being a 49er next season.   I've noticed 49er fans in blogs too see Kirk as the next step in their rebuild.  

 

This game coming up might be a chapter in that saga.   Garcon thus far looks better than any receiver we got on our roster even with Hoyer throwing him the ball.  49ers played 4 of their 5 games real tight.  To your point, I'm hoping for a big victory on Sunday.  A loss or even a tight victory might add to the narrative of heck all you do is throw Kirk from the Redskins to the 49ers and boom the 49ers are the better team.  We potentially will see some narrative one way or another coming up.

 

I think we are safe from the Rams. Goff looks good enough.  We aren't safe though from the 49ers, yet. Love Zach Brown but middle linebackers typically don't get paid big.  I think they will work that one out.

 

There is more chance he ends up in Pittsburgh that San Fran. No idea what Steelers cap looks like though.

[Warhead36]

Not sure how the Steelers could afford him with the big deals Bell and Brown have/will get on top of any other young players I'm sure they'll need to extend. They aren't one to ever go after big FA contracts.

 

Arizona is a potential landing spot though for Cousins. Palmer is done and they have some good weapons.

[Suffolk_Skins]

8 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Not sure how the Steelers could afford him with the big deals Bell and Brown have/will get on top of any other young players I'm sure they'll need to extend. They aren't one to ever go after big FA contracts.

 

Arizona is a potential landing spot though for Cousins. Palmer is done and they have some good weapons.

 

If Ben retires I think they'll have room

[CTskin]

Geesh, we're on the bye, the Eagles win, and the negativity appears to have crept back in.

 

KC and the Eagles are top 3 in the power rankings (Eagles will be after this week) and we coulda/woulda/shoulda beat both of them. We lost both games, no excuses, but we've been right there with the best teams in the league. We took a small step back on offense, but a huge step forward on defense, so I struggle to comprehend how anyone could argue that this team hasn't improved overall. 

 

Are we a 12-14 win team, probably not, but since when did that become the bar/expectation? 10-6 was the most optimistic Skins' fan prediction, now all of the sudden that wouldn't be acceptable? The majority of this board predicted sub.500. 

 

When I started the Confession Booth thread, I was aware that the season was still in it's infancy and season-long trends would take longer to prove, but you have to have blinders on to not see that this team is the real deal. Barring injuries (see: KC game), we can compete with, and beat, anybody.

 

With lil Shanny and Garcon coming to town, I don't think the game against the 9ers has the possibility of falling into the trap game category. They are a bad team full of hard tryers who won't be able to stand toe-to-toe.

[Suffolk_Skins]

2 minutes ago, CTskin said:

Geesh, we're on the bye, the Eagles win, and the negativity appears to have crept back in.

 

KC and the Eagles are top 3 in the power rankings (Eagles will be after this week) and we coulda/woulda/shoulda beat both of them. We lost both games, no excuses, but we've been right there with the best teams in the league. We took a small step back on offense, but a huge step forward on defense, so I struggle to comprehend how anyone could argue that this team hasn't improved overall. 

 

Are we a 12-14 win team, probably not, but since when did that become the bar/expectation? 10-6 was the most optimistic Skins' fan prediction, now all of the sudden that wouldn't be acceptable? The majority of this board predicted sub.500. 

 

When I started the Confession Booth thread, I was aware that the season was still in it's infancy and season-long trends would take longer to prove, but you have to have blinders on to not see that this team is the real deal. Barring injuries (see: KC game), we can compete with, and beat, anybody.

 

With lil Shanny and Garcon coming to town, I don't think the game against the 9ers has the possibility of falling into the trap game category. They are a bad team full of hard tryers who won't be able to stand toe-to-toe.

 

Gruden needs to have them ready.