General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[The Sisko]

 

3 hours ago, skinsmarydu said:

I was just going to express my disgust with those who are sworn to "serve and protect".   I really, really hate that your pay & benefits probably suck, but you TOOK AN OATH.

Just like the military.

Do your job. 

They’re not getting rich but they’re not eating beans and franks either. Even in red states, most police departments are unionized. They can also make a nice chunk of change doing security while off duty. In places where pensions had to be cut or eliminated, guess who’s pensions often weren’t? Finally, a lot of the money that goes into police budgets is hidden from the public so we don’t really know what they’re doing with it. I doubt it goes directly to compensation, but it likely frees up other money in the budget to do so. 
 

2 hours ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

 

 

This points to one of the problems with these clowns’ handling of the situation, poor site security. If this woman could get in and come out with her kids, isn’t it also possible that the shooter could have disarmed and possibly escaped the scene?

They’ve also done a piss poor job of public information management. It’s public info officer 101 that if you don’t have a sure answer, just say you’re still working to get the info and can’t respond until you have it.

Finally, the waiting around for a better equipped unit seems to be the opposite of the protocols/training implemented post Columbine IIRC. The policy now is to get your ass in there ASAP so that you can engage the shooter(s) as quickly as possible. If s/he’s shooting at you, he’s not shooting kids.

Given all that and the ever changing stories, these people have zero credibility. When the final report is released, I expect it will be thoroughly pencil whipped to absolve Officer Friendly of responsibility and paint them as heroes. 

[Barry.Randolphe]

What I think we're going to find out is that this city's police department is highly corrupt and woefully unprepared...and completely **** the bed on the response. The FBI is going to get involved next.

 

Regarding the fact the city is predominately Hispanic, racism did come to my mind at first on why they didn't rush in immediately...but then I saw the pic of the city's police department and it matches the city's demographics

 

[CobraCommander]

I read somewhere that 40% of the towns budget went to the police department. THIS is why we talk about defunding the police and instead funding mental health services, outreach program and better education. But y’all just wanna play hero with the ****ing guns. ****ing idiots. 
 

https://slate.com/business/2022/05/police-uvalde-shooting-new-york-city.html
 

The tiny Uvalde school district has its own seven-person force; the 15,000-person city spends 40 percent of its budget on policing, and in 2020, the Uvalde Police Department proudly toutedits nine-person SWAT team that was getting to know the layouts of local schools. Not only did the police spend an hour preparing to enter the school on Tuesday, but there was also this, from a fourth grader to local CBS affiliate KENS, presumably about the police’s first attempt to get into the school:

“When the cops came, the cop said: ‘Yell if you need help!’ And one of the persons in my class said ‘help.’ The guy overheard and he came in and shot her,” the boy said.

[Renegade7]

40% sounds egregious enough to suggest caps.

 

Having said that, looked around for comparison sake.  Looks like Chicago is also 40%, Minneapolis is 33%, Seattle 22%, Denver 17%, less then half this small town of 15,000.

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2021-city-budget-police-funding/

 

Math is not my strength, but if I'm reading this right, DC is trying to increase slightly, still jus over 11%

 

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/598495-dc-mayor-increases-police-funding-in-2023-budget-proposal/

 

Is this because these larger cities have more they need to take care of with respect to their overall budget?  Even then, couldn't this small town something better to do with its money then send 40% to its police force?

 

Looked deeper, it might because of the high crime rate:

 

Quote

With a crime rate of 45 per one thousand residents, Uvalde has one of the highest crime rates in America compared to all communities of all sizes - from the smallest towns to the very largest cities. One's chance of becoming a victim of either violent or property crime here is one in 22. Within Texas, more than 96% of the communities have a lower crime rate than Uvalde.

 

Separately, it is always interesting and important to compare a city's crime rate with those of similarly sized communities - a fair comparison as larger cities tend to have more crime. NeighborhoodScout has done just that. With a population of 15,217, Uvalde has a combined rate of violent and property crime that is very high compared to other places of similar population size. Regardless of whether Uvalde does well or poorly compared to all other cities and towns in the US of all sizes, compared to places with a similar population, it fares badly. Few other communities of this size have a crime rate as high as Uvalde.

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.neighborhoodscout.com/tx/uvalde/crime.amp

 

Uvalde is about 75 miles from the Mexico border, I can see that.  I stand by my statement on need to make police budget caps, jus I know it has to be more complex and flexible then a flat number, the point is keeping certain communities from spending more then makes sense with respect to actual crime rate. 

 

Unfortunately we may find the Uvadle comparable to what they are going through, jus have to ask what impact would be made if some of those resources were towards some of the reasons for their high level of crime in the first place.  They have a unusually high amount of property crime as well compared to communities of comparable size, even other Texas towns that close or closer to the border.

[Cooked Crack]

7 hours ago, steve09ru said:

What specifically did the police say that has changed pretty dramatically?  May have missed that.

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by Cooked Crack

[EmirOfShmo]

8 hours ago, steve09ru said:

Agreed, but military training doesn’t go that far down.  There’s been a push to demilitarize police but then in situations like this we expect it.  We can push for specialized areas but they require time and understanding of situations before they act.  The worst thing you can do, although in some instances it works, is just run free into it without a plan.  May work or it may make it worse if you lose that defense.   
 

we had less than 10 cops growing up in our town.  If this happened and others were called in from other departments 20+ minutes away, it’s a long time for this to go on.  You need the resources available to contain the situation and make sure it doesn’t spread.  This obviously hits worse in smaller towns where resources are fewer compared to you larger cities where it seems like these are resolved in minutes

 

Maybe these towns need to ban the possession & sale of assault style weapons within a 100 mile radius of their city/town. 

[skinsmarydu]

MSNBC has broken it all down, all of the lies that are coming in. 

No SRO. 

[Cooked Crack]

Summary of the changing narratives

 

 

[CousinsCowgirl84]

when we live in a world we do no they person who left the door open and unlocked needs to be prosecuted. I’m sure it was an accident but accidents like that have serious consequences.

 

schools should be equipped with door monitoring systems that make sure all access points are locked.

 

Its not a fire risk. Door systems are interlocked to release when the fire alarm system is triggered and are designed to allow egress out of the building (but not in).

 

We need to put up as many barriers are possible to this kind of act.

 

 

As far as the changing “narratives” I imagine that is all about incompetence being that it’s a small down with a small police force….

Edited May 27, 2022 by CousinsCowgirl84

[CobraCommander]

3 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

 

 

 

As far as the changing “narratives” I imagine that is all about incompetence being that it’s a small down with a small police force….

...that takes up 40% of the towns budget and brags about it's swat training? It's not that they are a small police force, but clearly cowards in military cosplay. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

All the blather about doors and budgets and defunding and mental health is all useless, NRA-approved talking points bull****.  It’s just thoughts & prayers gum-flapping with a slight gloss on it.
 

We either find a way to make these sorts of terrible weapons/ammunition extremely difficult to get or the bodies of dead schoolchildren will continue to pile up…and accelerate.  it’s as simple as that.

[CousinsCowgirl84]

2 minutes ago, CobraCommander said:

...that takes up 40% of the towns budget and brags about it's swat training? It's not that they are a small police force, but clearly cowards in military cosplay. 

What is the towns budget, total?

[CobraCommander]

24 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What is the towns budget, total?

I don't have total number but you can see them in that picture up there all outfitted and ready for war. The town schools have their own special police force. It's enough money to pay a bunch of people to stand outside a school while innocent children are murdered. 

[GoCommiesGo]

53 minutes ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

What is the towns budget, total?

 

 

FY 21 - 22 (Link). 

 

Proposed budget was 25 million and change, page 9. 

 

Police and Animal control had a budget of $4.058 million. Page 17. (This is where the 40% is coming from). The general fund makes up 10.489 million this fund captures the expenditure of all major city services. The police department makes up 38.6% of that budget. It is the largest segment of that fund, but not 40% of the total town budget. 

 

Page 46 - 49 breakout the actual expenditure categories. As with most agencies the largest expenditure is salaries, makes up 58.5% of the budget. 

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by GoCommiesGo

[Spaceman Spiff]

1 hour ago, CousinsCowgirl84 said:

when we live in a world we do no they person who left the door open and unlocked needs to be prosecuted. I’m sure it was an accident but accidents like that have serious consequences.

 

schools should be equipped with door monitoring systems that make sure all access points are locked.

 

Its not a fire risk. Door systems are interlocked to release when the fire alarm system is triggered and are designed to allow egress out of the building (but not in).

 

We need to put up as many barriers are possible to this kind of act.

 

 

As far as the changing “narratives” I imagine that is all about incompetence being that it’s a small down with a small police force….

 

Don't forget bars on windows with bulletproof glass for when the gunman can't get into the doors via monitoring systems.

[Rudechain]

K-12 shooting database

 

interesting stuff

 

https://www.chds.us/ssdb/data-map/

[Simmsy]

One of the anchors on MSNBC started calling AR-15s "Weapons of War", great tagline guys. Now, Democrats, stick with that tagline. Whenever you say AR-15, I also want to hear "Weapon of War", got it. This is a layup, Dems. You can do this...probably not...

[TradeTheBeal!]

[Springfield]

1 hour ago, Simmsy said:

One of the anchors on MSNBC started calling AR-15s "Weapons of War", great tagline guys. Now, Democrats, stick with that tagline. Whenever you say AR-15, I also want to hear "Weapon of War", got it. This is a layup, Dems. You can do this...probably not...

An AR-15 serves no other purpose than to kill people. Not deer or turkey. People. Oh and they look ****ing cool as ****. Have fun waving your small dick around while you blast off your AR.

2 hours ago, TradeTheBeal! said:

All the blather about doors and budgets and defunding and mental health is all useless, NRA-approved talking points bull****.  It’s just thoughts & prayers gum-flapping with a slight gloss on it.
 

We either find a way to make these sorts of terrible weapons/ammunition extremely difficult to get or the bodies of dead schoolchildren will continue to pile up…and accelerate.  it’s as simple as that.

This post right here is pretty much the summary of the entire thread and the most poignant post in here. Thank you.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Springfield

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, Simmsy said:

One of the anchors on MSNBC started calling AR-15s "Weapons of War", great tagline guys. Now, Democrats, stick with that tagline. Whenever you say AR-15, I also want to hear "Weapon of War", got it. This is a layup, Dems. You can do this...probably not...

 

This has been said before, but AR-15 is just a platform. It's popular because it's very modular and pretty cheap, but there are lots of other semi-auto rifles that aren't AR-15s. Pushing for a ban on AR-15s would be like pushing for a ban on Big Macs as a way to solve obesity, but leaving the Baconator and the Whopper alone.

[88Comrade2000]

I expect an increase in shootings.  The mentally unstable seeing the coverage these shootings are getting; will want to be immortalized. 

 

They will be thinking; I will be forever  known as the xxx xxx shooter. These nutjobs may even try to top the killed count, of the previous shooting.

 

Sorry, but I think this horror; evolves into the scenarios above.

 

The gop and the sc; will make it easier to happen.

[Llevron]

9 minutes ago, 88Comrade2000 said:

I expect an increase in shootings.  The mentally unstable seeing the coverage these shootings are getting; will want to be immortalized. 

 
People have been saying this since atleast 2015 and probably longer. Do you have any statistics showing that this is has happened yet or is this another ass pull? 

[TheGreatBuzz]

8 hours ago, Barry.Randolphe said:

What I think we're going to find out is that this city's police department is highly corrupt and woefully unprepared...and completely **** the bed on the response. The FBI is going to get involved next.

 

Regarding the fact the city is predominately Hispanic, racism did come to my mind at first on why they didn't rush in immediately...but then I saw the pic of the city's police department and it matches the city's demographics

 

 

Not saying this is the case here but it is worth remembering that people can be racist against their own race.

[tshile]

Got involved in the discussion of police not going in. Had to pull some searches up. But here’s the gist:

- police stopped “waiting for backup” in 1999. Im not saying everyone did, but the idea took root then. And it expanded as an “industry standard” over time. 
- not helping victims and going after the shooter only also took place over this time

- you can find numerous interviews with various experts or police chiefs discussing this change and why. Former DC police chief did an interview with 60 minutes back in 2015

 

Unless the reason they waited was that he was contained and they were being careful about it all knowing no one was in danger, this is a giant **** up. 
 

And they’re going to have a hard time explaining why they weren’t following best practices or industry standards (if you will…) that were created in 1999 and by at least 2015 commonly understood, trained, and discussed. 
 

race doesn’t even matter. It’s sheer incompetence. And they’re going to get absolutely crushed for it as this unfolds and people start being accountable. 
 

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

2 hours ago, Rudechain said:

K-12 shooting database

 

interesting stuff

 

https://www.chds.us/ssdb/data-map/

 

18 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 
People have been saying this since atleast 2015 and probably longer. Do you have any statistics showing that this is has happened yet or is this another ass pull? 

 

It's not the most scientific thing ever, but earlier today I used that link above to look at 10 year chunks.  70-79, 80-89, 90-99, 00-09, 10-present. I just looked at the dots on the map, like I said, not the most scientific thing ever.  But there's been an increase since the 70s for sure.