Presidential Election: 11/3/20 ---Now the President Elect Joe Biden Thread

[visionary]

 

 

Heath Care often goes over my head, but I thought a major complaint people had been making for months was that his plan eliminates all private insurance.

[Gallen5862]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/elections-2020/florida-lawsuit-don-t-count-sanders-primary-votes-he-s-clearly-not-a-democrat/ar-BB10o2cE

 

Florida lawsuit: Don't count Bernie Sanders' primary votes, he's 'clearly not a Democrat'

 

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. – Two men who don’t want to see independent Sen. Bernie Sanders win the Democratic presidential nomination sued to try to nullify votes he'll get in Florida’s primary March 17.

 

Frank Bach, a retired letter carrier, and George Brown, a retired social worker, filed a lawsuit this week in Leon County Circuit Court, asking a judge to disqualify Sanders from the ballot and block Florida from certifying his votes. 

[DCSaints_fan]

1 hour ago, visionary said:

 

 

Heath Care often goes over my head, but I thought a major complaint people had been making for months was that his plan eliminates all private insurance.

 

It would effectively do that ... if businesses have to pay a payroll tax, they will easily justify cutting employee benefits (i.e. health insurance), in order to make up the difference - then just say to their employees switch to Medicare since I'm not going to, in essence pay for health insurance twice.    Then private health insurance would collapse, since they don't have enough people paying into the system.  

[Renegade7]

@visionary  please help me confirm this isnt true, I'll take it down if its bull

 

 

[Fan since a Fetus]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@visionary  please help me confirm this isnt true, I'll take it down if its bull

 

I'm not visionary honestly. I can't live up to his godlike news status. But this is from the NY times:

 

"Ordinary Americans don’t just walk up to the window and buy a seat for $28.50. Often, they got one free from someone important — like one of the candidates (who are each allotted an equal number of seats), a Democratic Party official or someone who works for the news network hosting the debate.

 

The Charleston County Democratic Party offered sponsorship options ranging from $1,750 to $3,200, which included admission to the debate as well as access to other gatherings surrounding the event, according to a local news station, WCSC. “This is something that the average person doesn’t usually get to go to,” the station quoted the county party chair as saying.

 

For the first Democratic debate in Miami in June, the Florida Democratic Party offered sponsorships for thousands of dollars, according to The Miami Herald.

“For $4,500, a sponsor gets two tickets to a pre-debate reception on June 26 and two tickets to both debate nights,” the paper reported, as well as a $1,750 ticket that covered admission to one reception and the debate for one person."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2020/02/25/us/politics/south-carolina-debate-audience.amp.html

 

So, this isn't the first time nor will it be the last time tickets are sold. 

 

 

[visionary]

 

No idea if it’s true, but I haven’t seen any reliable confirmation.  Reportedly seats were divided up among the campaigns, and the dnc among others. So far from scanning twitter just now it seems like most of the seat price claims are coming from Sanders fans.

 

Edit: Reading the last post, it seems like it’s true....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bearrock]

5 hours ago, visionary said:

Heath Care often goes over my head, but I thought a major complaint people had been making for months was that his plan eliminates all private insurance.

 

It does for almost all procedure (except for things like elective cosmetics).  Either the original opinion piece writer doesn't know the details of the plan or he is being intentionally disingenuous.  All single payer systems including medicare forbids private insurance companies from offering a product that provides duplicate coverage, i.e. - they can't directly compete with the government.  But most if not all single payer system currently existing only provides partial coverage in that there will be deductibles, copays, and coinsurances.  There may also be uncovered medical procedures, though generally over time, political pressure will result in expansion of coverage.  Private insurances step in for a fee to cover these out of pocket costs.  Then the system provides a baseline in terms of healthcare that everyone is entitled to and anything above and beyond is up to the individuals to privately contract for. 

 

But the Sanders plan already eliminates all out of pocket costs by the patient, thus leaving no room for private insurance.  So yes, except for elective cosmetic procedures, it does entirely eliminate private insurance.

 

[Renegade7]

@Fan since a Fetus and @visionary, thanks for responding.  

 

I have my feelings about the debate structure that can be their own thread, I didnt watch last night for if any reason I'm concerned they arent about informing us of candidates positions anymore.  Every WaPo review article of these debates shows winners and losers, but never what new did we learn. 

 

Is that their coverage, what the debates have become, or the problem with expecting certain topics and details in these debates in the first place?  I'm going to put Bernies town hall on while I work, if anything because it gives the candidates more time to really explain what they want to do.

 

Im leaning towards only having debates once the candidates are decided, and town halls for specific candidates or forums on specific topics instead for the nomination process.  I got tired of waiting for plans for infrastructure, they need an hour devoted to jus that, then another topic then another topic.  There should be a couple of these that already happened I'm going to check out for different candidates, to be fair.

 

I recommend Bernies Joe Rogan interview to anyone that hasnt watched it already.

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, Renegade7 said:

@visionary  please help me confirm this isnt true, I'll take it down if its bull

 

IMO, it shouldn't be visionary's job to fact check what you post.  You post it is should be on you IMO.

 

That attitude will cause the spread of misinformation.

[Fan since a Fetus]

Yeah, I need to watch the town halls then. I've never watched one. I felt that last night's debate was a crap show. A cleaner, more to the point and less attacking forum would be better for me. 

 

I'm relatively new to politics. I started playing attention about 6 years ago. I honestly didn't know about town halls till recently. I don't feel comfortable enough in my knowledge to debate anyone here and I don't want to be the cause of spreading mis information.  

 

But that is why I've relegated myself to just liking posts.

 

[Renegade7]

15 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

IMO, it shouldn't be visionary's job to fact check what you post.  You post it is should be on you IMO.

 

That attitude will cause the spread of misinformation.

 

I was asking for help because I couldnt confirm it.  I've done that a couple times in the coronavirus thread and at least once you did that for me without issue.

[Larry]

7 hours ago, Nerm said:

He (Pete) comes across as the most reasonable, or ... "mature" person on the stage, even though, visually, he looks too young to be there. 

 

I didn't want to use the word "mature".  (Thought it, didn't want to type it.)  Reasonable I absolutely agree with.  

 

That was my first impression of him.  I really didn't hear anything about his policies.  (Still don't know much.)  But I sure think that his tone is what the country needs.  

 

There's too many people throwing molotov ****tails right now.  

 

First President I ever voted for was Gerald Ford.  I remember one of my high school classmates making the analogy that in medieval times, there was a position called "steward"  The steward was somebody who sat on the throne while the king was off at the Crusades.  The backup QB.  And he made the observation that after Nixon, he thought Ford was a very good choice to be a steward, and he didn't see any Kings on the horizon.  

 

I think a President who recognizes that sooner or later, the D's and R's need to get back to working together, is a good step.  

 

Which doesn't mean there won't be times when firm "negotiation" won't be needed, too.  

 

My fantasy is that one of the first things that gets addressed by the new President, is the huge deficit which the GOP unanimously, intentionally, exploded, as their first (and pretty much only) act in power.  I think I make a speech, with a pretty chart, showing the current federal deficit, with a chunk of it (I think it's like half of it.)  I point at the highlighted part, and I say "This part of the federal deficit was intentionally created by Donald Trump, and the entire Republican Party, in a straight party line vote, without permitting any input whatsoever.  They intentionally created it.  And have been intentionally not doing a thing about it, for four years.  Until now, when somebody else is in change.  And now, their standard maneuver is to suddenly pretend that this deficit appeared magically of of thin air, and demand that they will not permit the grownups to fix the damage unless they get more presents.  

 

"They will not get them.  This deficit was intentionally caused by legislation which was 100% Republican created.  And it will be repaired by repealing the legislation.  The days of intentionally creating problems, and then demanding that you want to be rewarded for allowing somebody else to repair your damage, are over.  

 

"After the portion of the deficit that was intentionally created has been dealt with, if the Republicans have any proposals for bipartisan methods of further deficit reduction, then there's lots of negotiating tables in Washington."  

 

But I rarely get my fantasies.  

 

[Larry]

7 hours ago, visionary said:

Heath Care often goes over my head, but I thought a major complaint people had been making for months was that his plan eliminates all private insurance.

 

It pretty much does.  

 

Yes, you're allowed to purchase insurance.  As long as the insurance does not cover anything Medicare covers.  

 

If Medicare covers colonoscopy, then you cannot purchase insurance that covers colonoscopy.  (You also can't pay for it yourself, either.)  

 

The intent (if I can presume to speak for other people's intent) is to prevent a situation in which providers start turning away patients who don;t have insurance that pays over and above Medicare prices.  "Oh, here at the colonoscopy Center, we only take patients who have Blue Cross supplemental insurance, that pays more per colonoscopy.  If you're one of the Little People who just have ordinary Medicare, then you have to go somewhere else."

 

But, if Medicare doesn't cover gender reassignment, then you're allowed to buy gender reassignment insurance.  

 

Granted, the only people purchasing it will be people who are getting gender reassignment.  Therefore, the insurance will cost as much as paying for the gender reassignment out of your own pocket, plus the insurance company's markup.  But it will be legal for you to throw away your money if you really want.  

 

[Springfield]

I keep hearing that my boy Petey B is doing well at these debates.  Yet still, he gets no extra support.

[bearrock]

4 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I keep hearing that my boy Petey B is doing well at these debates.  Yet still, he gets no extra support.

 

I think it's the electability concern.  He's not making real traction on getting minority support.  So there may be a lot of people on the fence who are not buying his electability.

[Springfield]

10 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

I think it's the electability concern.  He's not making real traction on getting minority support.  So there may be a lot of people on the fence who are not buying his electability.

I mean, Bernie isn’t getting much moderate support so that’s a bit of a concern to me.  And then, when people call him a socialist, he like, “So... what?!”

 

Granted, I think that most of the democratic moderate base bites their tongue and votes for Bernie over Trump but there will surely be a contingent who simply don’t vote.  You can also count out any borderline independents too.

 

So yes, let’s count on the minority vote, who historically don’t show up for elections unless your name is Barack Hussein Obama, to carry Bernie to the win.

 

Real ****ing sound logic.

 

Bernie has as much electability questions surrounding him as Buttigueg.

 

(Sorry that wasn’t an attack on you)

[Llevron]

I do find it fitting that Bloomberg entering this race just to stop Bernie with his **** you money, and his ill buy you and this Presidency if I have to mindset.....will be the exact thing that pushes people to support Burnie in the first place. 

 

 

Also this 

 

 

Why are these people acting this way? I used to watch this channel everyday, and they never acted like this before lol

[Larry]

30 minutes ago, Springfield said:

I keep hearing that my boy Petey B is doing well at these debates.  Yet still, he gets no extra support.

 

I can see other possible reasons for not flocking to him.  

 

The gay thing is one, for me.  Not because I have trouble supporting him.  (If I did, I wouldn't be talking him up, in here.)  But it does make me wonder if I'm focusing on somebody who doesn't have a chance.  

 

I'll say, his inexperience is a mark against him, for me.   One reason why I wouldn't mind a bit seeing him run as Veep behind one of the Old Farts.  Let him hold a clipboard for a couple seasons.  

 

I would love a plan where he serves four years as Biden's Veep, and then runs as an "incumbent", four years from now.  

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

 

[NoCalMike]

It's funny to me how the healthcare debate has morphed from private health insurance being the problem to "we can't get rid of private health insurance" 

 

I thought some of the European countries still allow private health insurance to be purchased as a supplement to the guaranteed healthcare provided by the government?  If so, maybe one of the candidates should embrace that kind of idea, and if they already are, they need to explain that during the debate. 

[The Evil Genius]

[RedskinsFan44]

11 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

At my pops funeral they said he had a saying he would repeat often he got someplace. That you can judge a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him or to help him. Something like that. That’s the closest I got!! 

I tell my kids this. It's a very good way to assess someones character.

[Cooked Crack]

 

[LadySkinsFan]

51 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

It's funny to me how the healthcare debate has morphed from private health insurance being the problem to "we can't get rid of private health insurance" 

 

I thought some of the European countries still allow private health insurance to be purchased as a supplement to the guaranteed healthcare provided by the government?  If so, maybe one of the candidates should embrace that kind of idea, and if they already are, they need to explain that during the debate. 

 

This is what I have with Medicare, a supplement plan that I pay for. And I pay $138/month out of my Social Security for Medicare Part B doctor visits. So I pay $338/month for pretty good coverage because I have Supplement Plan F, which isn't offered anymore to new enrollees. 

 

Since I was self employeed for about a third of my working life, I paid the whole FICA portion during that time. I imagine that having a plan for all would mean that people pay a premium for services now plus supplements available, plus FICA for retirement.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 hour ago, Springfield said:

I mean, Bernie isn’t getting much moderate support so that’s a bit of a concern to me.  And then, when people call him a socialist, he like, “So... what?!”

 

Bernie did really well with Moderates in Nevada